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Final Obama-McCain Debate: Live Blog

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 07:50:00 PM EST
Tags: Barack Obama, John McCain, debates, 2008 (all tags)
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The third and final debate between Senators Barack Obama and John McCain begins at 9pm ET on CNN. Big Tent Democrat, TChris, the TL Kid and I will be live-blogging.

The live blog stays below the fold so that it can be a bit wider than the front page allows. Just click on the "There's More" button or bookmark the permalink to go directly to it.

You can comment same as always in the comment section below. You also can send us live messages through the software. Only comments you post below will appear on the site.

We'll add live polls so you can weigh in on how they are doing. [More...]

< Obama Campaign's Reaction to Final Debate | Hillary's Post-Debate Interview on CNN >

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    Final Obama-McCain Debate: Live Blog | 206 comments (206 topical)
    It's official. (5.00 / 0) (#1)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 07:55:30 PM EST
    At 8:54 pm LarryInNYC is calling the debate for Obama.

    And a GIRL wins Project Runway ;) (none / 0) (#2)
    by nycstray on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:02:33 PM EST


    Parent
    Haha, I was freaking out because (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by jtaylorr on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:19:57 PM EST
    I thought you spoiled the ending (I have it Tivoed), then I remembered Jerrell had already been eliminated.
    Thanks for not spoiling it!

    Parent
    Small business question is key (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:12:05 PM EST
    to people I know anyway, most of us work for small businesses. It is the main criticism I hear about Obama.

    My husband owns a small business, employs (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by Angel on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:02:54 PM EST
    fewer than 10 people.  It's a professional firm, and the business makes more than $250K.  Sounds like a lot of money but think about how much risk there is in owning your own business, being responsible for a staff, and also having to pay for health insurance for yourself and your staff, trying to save for retirement since you're the only one who can take care of this - in other words you're not dependent on anyone else for these things.  Takes a lot of money to do that.  And if you have a retirement plan for yourself such as a SEP then you have to give equal funding for your employees.  Risk, people forget what that is relative to what you earn or should earn.  Don't even get me started on overhead.

    Parent
    Yes, I'd like to know if it's a valid criticism. (none / 0) (#18)
    by sallywally on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:13:01 PM EST


    Parent
    Depends (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:16:03 PM EST
    If the business makes less than $250k, no tax raise, if more then they get their taxes raised.  The ones that employ more than 10 people probably make more than 250k.  I know my company, employing 25 people, makes more than that.

    For a good discussion, see mark ambinder  today at theatlantic.com

    Parent

    95% of all small business makes less than 250k (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by DFLer on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:18:57 PM EST


    Parent
    When you count an individual (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:22:16 PM EST
    contract employee, a student for example, that makes $5000 doing work for his department in college, as a small business, then you are right.  That is what is misleading about Obama's statistics.

    Parent
    It sounds to me like McCain is really (none / 0) (#20)
    by sallywally on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:14:14 PM EST
    talking about only large businesses, but I'm not positive.

    Parent
    If you call a business employing 25 (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:18:06 PM EST
    people and making, say, 300k a year a large business, then he is.

    People who work for companies like that consider it a small business.

    Parent

    ok, thanks a lot for your information! (none / 0) (#37)
    by sallywally on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:19:24 PM EST
    Doesn't sound like Obama goes high enough for "small" businesses. I've worked for one like that too.

    Parent
    As if (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:12:07 PM EST
    he gives a rat's ass about Joe the Plumber . . .

    Someone didn't (none / 0) (#21)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:14:44 PM EST
    take their crotchety-old-man medication. If maybe, just maybe, McCain stopped interrupting Obama for one second, he may just get an answer to his question.

    Parent
    Is Joe the Plumber related (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by byteb on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:12:51 PM EST
    to Joe sixpack?

    Actually (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by CoralGables on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:15:21 PM EST
    I think Joe the Plumber is engaged to Joesephina Sixpack

    Parent
    He's from Massachusetts. . . (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:17:30 PM EST
    and he's engaged to Joe Sixpack.

    Parent
    Obama needed to say that (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by cpa1 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:17:04 PM EST
    Wealth has already been redistributed to the wealthy in monstrous proportions and look what it has done for us.  It is time for Trickle up, giving those who need the tax breaks those tax breaks that will enable them to spend and crank up our economy.

    He was nervous and not very good.  It should have stuff McCain with that one

    earmarksearmarksplanetarium (5.00 / 0) (#38)
    by byteb on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:19:25 PM EST


    That planetarium line.... (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:26:23 PM EST
    it irks me just about as much as the grizzly bear DNA mocking spiel.

    The Adler Planetarium in Chicago is a first-rate public museum that teaches astronomical science to the public, including to lots of Chicago kids. I think that projector was a pretty good investment in science education.

    And the grizzly bear DNA study was a conventional modern study using molecular data to study geographic home ranges, kinship, and mating patterns in grizzlies.

    I hate when he ridicules money spent on scientific research and education! I suppose we're supposed to think it's wasteful... compared to say the money spent in Iraq or something.

    Parent

    torture (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by noholib on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:25:37 PM EST
    Why is Obama praising McCain for opposing torture when McCain later reversed himself to support Bush on this?

    Ooooo. Scheiffer hits on negative. . . (5.00 / 0) (#54)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:26:33 PM EST
    campaigning.  Good question, actually, not withstanding that it draws a false equivalence between the two campaigns.

    flashback to McCain on Larry King (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by kmblue on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:28:27 PM EST
    telling W he was out of line.

    well (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by connecticut yankee on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:28:27 PM EST
    McCain didnt pull the trigger.  Played the victim card. LOL!

    So McC goes on and on about how vicious (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by sallywally on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:29:36 PM EST
    Obama has been. All his fault.

    But Obama says 2/3 of Am. People say McC running a negative campaign. 100% of McC's ads are negative.

    Good responses from Obama, IMO.

    Yikes (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by kmblue on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:32:20 PM EST
    Obama goes there "Kill him" quotes

    Obama is so friggin' calm. (5.00 / 0) (#67)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:34:10 PM EST
    Even talking about the death threats he is so calm.  That's a good electoral characteristic.

    He's got that weird smirk thing going on (none / 0) (#93)
    by BrassTacks on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:47:41 PM EST
    Obama seems sorta pissed.   I think it's a bit more difficult than he had thought.   McCain's better than I expected.  

    Parent
    You're attacking the (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:34:21 PM EST
    patriotism of veterans by criticizing people for wanting to kill you! Hmph!

    Oops. McCain falls for Ayers / ACORN (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:37:20 PM EST
    trap.

    What a doofus.

    And. . . (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:39:41 PM EST
    Obama slays him.

    Parent
    Hey! (none / 0) (#74)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:39:08 PM EST
    You can't call those God-fearing patriotic American veterans doofuses! Even if you aren't at all referring to them!

    How dare you >:P

    Parent

    200,000 dollars per year is NOT middle class (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Romberry on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:38:19 PM EST
    Median family income in the United States is around 50k. 200k is not middle class. Why on earth would a Dem be proposing tax cuts for people earning six figures?

    I'm sorry, but both of these candidates well and truly suck. I will vote for neither.

    I don't know.... (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:20:19 PM EST
    my sister and her husband probably make damn near close to 200k...if they have the money they go out to dinner more...good for the economy, and keeps my broke-arse friends who wait tables working.

    If the govt. gets it they employ a DEA agent.

    Parent

    Running mates? Is Scheiffer on our payroll? (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:41:24 PM EST


    but, but Palin is a maverick! (none / 0) (#81)
    by byteb on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:41:49 PM EST


    Parent
    Good line (5.00 / 0) (#80)
    by connecticut yankee on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:41:36 PM EST
    Says more about your campaign than it does about me.

    This focus group is CRAP (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by andgarden on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:43:55 PM EST
    the men are obviously hardcore Republicans.

    No, (none / 0) (#88)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:45:43 PM EST
    I think they're just not paying attention. The men acted like this last time and the time before that.

    Parent
    I expected the lines to go way down when (none / 0) (#94)
    by Teresa on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:47:46 PM EST
    he discussed Palin. They actually went up a pretty decent amount, especially with men. A lesson for the blogs, maybe? They need to stick to the economy.

    Parent
    oh lawd, Palin should be VP (5.00 / 0) (#86)
    by byteb on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:44:28 PM EST
    because of special needs children

    McCain is just sinking himself. (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:45:43 PM EST
    I'm so proud of Sarah Palin.  She's just the kind of person to sweep out the old boy crony network -- like me!

    Obama is getting his clocked cleaned (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by cpa1 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:45:52 PM EST
    Except for Ayers

    Which debate are you watching? (5.00 / 0) (#126)
    by TomStewart on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:00:09 PM EST


    Parent
    McCain sounds like he (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:47:14 PM EST
    doesn't know what he wants to talk about. Everything he says he magically links to Obama being the evil-tax-and-spend boogieman.

    No, he sounds like he wants to talk about (none / 0) (#98)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:50:24 PM EST
    Obama taxing and spending. That is his theme. I know he rarely sticks to a theme, so it is easy to miss. :-)

    Parent
    OH! (none / 0) (#106)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:54:01 PM EST
    Ok. I was just confused there. It's like the moderator asks about how cute kittens are and McCain answers with "Obama will tax kittens!! RAHRR!!!!"

    Parent
    You are right that he is doing that (none / 0) (#109)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:55:00 PM EST
    But it is a strategy, not confusion.

    Parent
    Well, (none / 0) (#118)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:58:09 PM EST
    I understand his strategy. I guess I'm the one who's confused. Do you think he's actually going to answer the questions? Is that giving him too much credit.

    Parent
    Not if he can help it! (none / 0) (#179)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:21:38 PM EST
    You are not confused!!!  that is an old political debate strategy - never answer what you are asked, say what you want to say.  I don't think it works - people notice it, like you did.

    Parent
    Well, (none / 0) (#121)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:58:54 PM EST
    I understand his strategy. I guess I'm the one who's confused. Do you think he's actually going to answer the questions? Is that giving him too much credit?

    Parent
    Sorry! (none / 0) (#123)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:59:31 PM EST
    for the double post, that is. Computer oops.

    Parent
    McCain gets the last word EVERY Time (5.00 / 2) (#115)
    by cpa1 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:57:18 PM EST
    Sheefer is a long time friend of the Bush family and it shows here.

    Joe the plumber! (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by snstara on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:59:59 PM EST
    Drink!

    Joe, (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by Radiowalla on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:02:35 PM EST
    Please bring your plunger!  I'm already on the floor!

    Parent
    oh geesh. Joe, my friend, the plumber (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by byteb on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:00:16 PM EST


    MCain could lose this election (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:00:22 PM EST
    on his health care plan alone

    I'll pay Joe's fine for him. . . (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:00:49 PM EST
    if we don't have to listen to McCain any more.

    My plumber is actually named Joe. (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:03:11 PM EST
    My friends and I call him Joe the Plumber. In fact, his plumber son is named Joe too.

    Parent
    Not that Joe! (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:04:44 PM EST
    I'll pay for McCain's imaginary friend Joe -- not any real Joe and his whole brood of Joe Formans at home.

    Parent
    Zero? (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:02:05 PM EST
    Wachoo talkin' 'bout 'Bama?

    McCain's face was priceless.

    LOL!!! (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by sallywally on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:03:30 PM EST
    It was great.

    Parent
    Yeah that was great! (none / 0) (#140)
    by CaptainAmerica08 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:04:39 PM EST


    Parent
    my insurance (5.00 / 2) (#136)
    by kmblue on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:02:36 PM EST
    costs 600. a month.  5k won't cut it.

    My two friends are married and paying (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by cpa1 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:08:29 PM EST
    $1,250 a month each or close to $30,000 a year.  Add to that the non prescription allergy meds they now have to pay for, increases in the deductibles and co-pays and they are close to $32,000 a year.  My friends are 60 and 56

    Parent
    I've never seen anyone work so hard. . . (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:06:14 PM EST
    for the plumber's union endorsement.

    Culture War (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:12:42 PM EST
    Has "officially" begun via McCain's cue.

    No common ground Obama (5.00 / 3) (#162)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:15:37 PM EST
    Aaaaarrrrgghhh

    i don't care which topic, no common ground.

    So what, (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:16:33 PM EST
    McCain doesn't think it's possible for a woman to die giving birth?!?!?!?!?!

    That was "officially" the WTF moment of the night.

    "Health of the woman. . . (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:18:53 PM EST
    is the extreme pro-Abortion position".

    You know the Obama campaign is editing the ad right this very minute.

    Parent

    Heh, (none / 0) (#185)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:23:58 PM EST
    they should make it dark and grainy and put an extremely over-exaggerating announcer guy saying,

    "Health of the mother is not important to you Mr. McCain? How dishonorable.

    John McCain. He's for dying mothers. With apple pie."

    Parent

    Its like McCain isn't even debating (5.00 / 2) (#172)
    by CaptainAmerica08 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:19:19 PM EST
    and listenening to counterpoint Obama, it's just all well worn, outdated right-wing attacks.

    Parent
    He's doing a Palin (none / 0) (#180)
    by byteb on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:22:04 PM EST


    Parent
    Lying and Lying. (5.00 / 2) (#166)
    by liberalLibertarian on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:17:49 PM EST
    McCain speaks a lie. He repeats the lie. Nobody calls him on it. I wish O would have jumped all over his ass. The raise taxes lie. The free trade lie. The associations lies. On and on.

    There isn't enough time (5.00 / 2) (#171)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:19:04 PM EST
    in the world to call on all of McCain's lies.

    Parent
    Uh (5.00 / 3) (#169)
    by lentinel on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:18:33 PM EST
    I don't care for Obama's supporting a ban on late term abortion - with or without the caviat of the health of the mother.

    I couldn't do it - but I just can't get away from the feeling that this is men talking about what a woman can or cannot do with what is happening in her own body.

    Late term abortions are (5.00 / 4) (#187)
    by denise k on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:24:44 PM EST
    almost always very despearate and sad situations.  The health exception is especially for woman carrying a fetus that is not capable of living outside the womb.  Imagine having to carry a child for 2 or 3 months knowing that you won't have a living baby at the end.  That is what would be required if there were no health exception for the mother.  

    Parent
    The YouTube Video (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by CoralGables on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:19:40 PM EST
    of the real Joe the plumber asking Obama a question has Obama coming off superbly. He spends five minutes out in the sun explaining how the tax policy works and the crowd claps for him when it's over. Hell, even Joe appears to understand by the time he is done. That was campaigning at its best.

    Charter schools. (5.00 / 2) (#181)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:22:36 PM EST
    Yuch.

    What is McCain On? (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by Doc Rock on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:23:44 PM EST
    His pupils have been wide open the whole night under those lights and he's had this sickening Cheshire cat grin all night?

    Obama's just wrong on early childhood ed (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by BrassTacks on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:24:37 PM EST
    By third grade, it's equalized out.  No benefits.  

    Obama's not looking good and he sounds defensive again on education.  I am shocked at his performance tonight.  Knock me over with a feather.  I thought he'd be much better.  

    Choice in schools will get to many people but unions hate the idea, so that's good for Obama.  

    McCain (5.00 / 3) (#201)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:28:51 PM EST
    during this whole debate came off as fake, mean, rude, cranky, confused, incoherent, and the living incarnate of the Cheshire Cat. Thank God this is all over.

    As we used to say at Wrigley (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:29:39 PM EST
    Na na na na
    na na na na
    Hey John, good-bye

    Good closing for Obama (5.00 / 0) (#204)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:30:58 PM EST
    I like this crisper delivery a lot.

    oh puhleese (4.80 / 5) (#154)
    by kmblue on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:10:28 PM EST
    Roe v Wade again .  Excuse me Obama I ain't talking to my pastor about abortion.  Solely the woman's decision, tah very much.

    McCain is wining this round, (none / 0) (#159)
    by BrassTacks on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:14:38 PM EST
    Obama seems defensive on saving partial birth abortion babies who are born alive.  

    Parent
    Here we go . . . (none / 0) (#3)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:02:44 PM EST
    I've got my nausea pills right here.

    Dangit. Men vs women lines. I like (none / 0) (#4)
    by Teresa on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:03:42 PM EST
    the other ones better. This tells me nothing I don't already know.

    I'm not watching the lines this time (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:05:39 PM EST
    Just revelling in the joy of this being the last debate this season.  I'm almost giddy.

    Parent
    Can someone (none / 0) (#6)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:06:07 PM EST
    answer me what's wrong with govt buying the home-owner loans?

    I'm just honestly curious. This issue has really just flown over my head.

    If they buy them at face value. . . (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:07:28 PM EST
    then it's a huge bailout for crappy loans made by dishonest brokers, rated by sleazy rating agencies, and bought by insane investors.

    If they buy them at a greatly reduced value, punishing the banks for their screw-ups, then it might be a good idea.

    Obama is saying exactly this as I type.

    Parent

    Oops, (none / 0) (#11)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:10:14 PM EST
    sorry. I'll listen :)

    Parent
    No, I just meant. . . (none / 0) (#16)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:12:10 PM EST
    aren't I smart -- Obama's saying what I said.

    Parent
    Then why (none / 0) (#23)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:15:49 PM EST
    aren't you advising the Obama campaign, sir or ma'am?

    Parent
    I advise them night and day. . . (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:18:29 PM EST
    can I help it if they don't read TalkLeft?

    Parent
    HOLC smash. (none / 0) (#7)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:06:07 PM EST
    McCain making a decent argument -- against Paulson and Obama -- for homeowner relief.  No mention of what amount the government would pay the loan holders.

    Here it comes! (none / 0) (#9)
    by lobary on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:08:19 PM EST
    Obama, you're a Socialist!

    wow (none / 0) (#10)
    by CoralGables on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:09:31 PM EST
    we are now discussing Joe the plumber. McCain starts off slow

    Wait! That's not Joe the plumber! (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:10:57 PM EST
    That's Joe Lieberman in overalls and carrying a pipe wrench.

    Parent
    Yeah, (none / 0) (#13)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:11:04 PM EST
    he stumbled alot on that little anecdote.

    Parent
    I'm guessing (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by CoralGables on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:13:25 PM EST
    "Joe the Plumber" is the new "My Friends"

    Parent
    Did BTD run off and kidnap the TL kid? (none / 0) (#25)
    by Teresa on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:16:17 PM EST


    Where (none / 0) (#26)
    by kmblue on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:16:40 PM EST
    is BTD?

    McCain decides not to answer (none / 0) (#28)
    by byteb on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:17:30 PM EST
    the energy question

    Those Ohio folks always love drilling. (none / 0) (#30)
    by Teresa on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:17:50 PM EST


    AS usual (none / 0) (#31)
    by kmblue on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:18:03 PM EST
    lots of question ducking.  I think McCain appears a bit uncertain...

    It doesn't even much matter what McCain says (none / 0) (#32)
    by andgarden on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:18:05 PM EST
    he just come off as mean.

    First Iowa, now goes Floirda (none / 0) (#36)
    by andgarden on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:18:59 PM EST
    McCain wants to cut the sugar tariff!

    Well, (none / 0) (#39)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:20:12 PM EST
    if you hack off a leg, what the hell do you need a scalpel for?

    Never bring a scalpel. . . (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:21:31 PM EST
    to a hatchet fight.  That's my motto!

    Parent
    You act enough (none / 0) (#40)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:21:19 PM EST
    like Bush to me.

    President Bush. . . (none / 0) (#43)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:22:19 PM EST
    President Bushed.  What's the difference.

    Parent
    Women ohio uncommitted voters on CNN (none / 0) (#44)
    by byteb on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:22:25 PM EST
    are NOT loving McCain

    Good shot from McCain (none / 0) (#45)
    by kmblue on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:23:00 PM EST
    "I'm not President Bush..."  etc.

    Obama coming back from it. . . (none / 0) (#46)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:24:27 PM EST
    right now.  Excellent, respectful, crushing response -- on economic issues, you support eight more years of the Bush policies.

    Parent
    P.O.W.! (none / 0) (#47)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:24:36 PM EST
    Drink!

    McCain is better in this format than the last (none / 0) (#48)
    by Teresa on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:25:23 PM EST
    one so far. I thought it would be the opposite.

    He's done Shieffer's Sunday show (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:29:22 PM EST
    over 100 times, and MTP god knows how many.  I'm not surprised he likes this.

    Parent
    Uh oh (none / 0) (#50)
    by kmblue on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:25:43 PM EST
    I sense  an Ayers remark coming!

    Here it comes!!! (none / 0) (#51)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:25:56 PM EST


    Wait, (none / 0) (#53)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:26:26 PM EST
    he's blaming Obama for not jumping when he said jump for the tone of the campaign?

    Parent
    Obama! (none / 0) (#55)
    by TomStewart on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:26:50 PM EST
    Get off my lawn! I'm keeping the baseball! It's part of my 'Kids Play' freeze!

    Grrrrrrrr.

    OMG...McCain is nasty b/c (none / 0) (#56)
    by byteb on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:26:58 PM EST
    Obama didn't do town halls! Who knew??

    McCain's dirty politics are all Obama's fault.... (none / 0) (#57)
    by sallywally on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:27:11 PM EST
    hmmmm.....

    What the hell? (none / 0) (#58)
    by kmblue on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:27:32 PM EST
    McCain has not taken up for Obama "every time".
    Obama hits back (none / 0) (#63)
    by kmblue on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:30:00 PM EST
    on town hall bs!

    Cute argument. . . (none / 0) (#65)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:32:23 PM EST
    "Obama is spending more than anyone else in history" on negative ads.  That may be true -- but he's spending more on everything than anyone else.

    A variation on Bush's old line (none / 0) (#151)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:09:26 PM EST
    about more people owning homes than any time in history.  Of course that is true - every single year.

    Come to think of it, he has not been bragging about that lately.

    Parent

    "You misrepresent" (none / 0) (#66)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:32:29 PM EST
    my healthcare plan!!!!"

    But you said Obama wants to teach sex to kindergarteners. Come on. Seriously. Let's be grown ups tonight.

    WTF is McCain talking about??? (none / 0) (#68)
    by byteb on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:34:17 PM EST


    McCain PROUD. . . (none / 0) (#70)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:34:35 PM EST
    of everyone who attends his rallies.

    It's Ayers and ACORN time! (none / 0) (#73)
    by kmblue on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:39:07 PM EST
    Yikes they are going there.  Creepy smile from McCain.

    CNN lines going into negatives now (none / 0) (#76)
    by byteb on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:39:59 PM EST


    for McCain that is (none / 0) (#79)
    by byteb on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:41:25 PM EST
    both men and women

    Parent
    Was it during Ayers? (none / 0) (#84)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:43:36 PM EST
    I can't believe McCain went there.  What a nitwit.

    You can absolutely hear each of the different campaign advisors -- one says "go negative" so McCain has that line.  One says "it's about taxes", so he tries to shoe-horn that into the same answer.

    Parent

    Who is better, sez Bob (none / 0) (#77)
    by kmblue on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:41:18 PM EST
    Biden or Palin?  This oughta be good.

    I wouldn't (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:42:23 PM EST
    be able to hold my silence if I were in that crowd. I'd cause a stir by laughing myself to death when he asked that question.

    Parent
    Idiotic question with the predictable silly answer (none / 0) (#96)
    by BrassTacks on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:48:28 PM EST


    Parent
    Palin is a reformer! (none / 0) (#83)
    by kmblue on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:43:21 PM EST
    Oh boy.  

    Oh Obama don't (none / 0) (#87)
    by kmblue on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:45:19 PM EST
    be so calm and reasonable.  I wanna see some passion, please.

    Nope. It's all about face. (5.00 / 0) (#97)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:48:45 PM EST
    Obama cannot and will not lose face.  He shouldn't get mad.

    Parent
    But he did seem mad, calmer now (none / 0) (#100)
    by BrassTacks on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:50:55 PM EST
    But why is Obama looking in different places?  First off to the left, then to the right and now straight at the camera.  Oops, now he's back gazing left.  He's making me dizzy.  

    Parent
    I agree, he has to get mad and (none / 0) (#91)
    by cpa1 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:46:54 PM EST
    McCain is getting al the time and the last word almost every time.

    Parent
    Are you looking at the split screen? (none / 0) (#101)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:51:27 PM EST
    He is laughing at McCain a lot.

    Parent
    McCain is losing it (none / 0) (#95)
    by andgarden on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:48:10 PM EST
    What a pompous nasty SOB. His comment about NAFTA just came off wrong.

    His creepy smile (none / 0) (#99)
    by sallywally on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:50:24 PM EST
    and big black (huge pupils?) eyes....

    Reminds me of my cats about to pounce.

    Parent

    Obama's sounding more in control again (none / 0) (#102)
    by BrassTacks on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:52:29 PM EST
    But McCain is nailing him on off shore drilling.

    I wish Obama wouldn't stare at McCain during the split screen thing.  Makes him look weird.

    I CAN NOT stand McCain (none / 0) (#103)
    by byteb on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:52:51 PM EST


    Is McCain stumbling over words? (none / 0) (#104)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:53:34 PM EST
    That last answer sounded like he could barely get it out.

    John is going to lose it (none / 0) (#105)
    by byteb on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:53:51 PM EST
    any minute

    Okay (none / 0) (#107)
    by kmblue on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:54:21 PM EST
    McCain is flailing now.  frozen smile, fixed stare while he waits to hit again

    John is going to lose it (none / 0) (#108)
    by byteb on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:54:50 PM EST
    any minute

    apologies for double post (none / 0) (#110)
    by byteb on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:55:28 PM EST


    Parent
    Not good enough (5.00 / 4) (#120)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:58:26 PM EST
    Do you renounce AND reject that double post?

    Parent
    McCain seems a bit hopped-up. (none / 0) (#111)
    by sallywally on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:56:25 PM EST
    He can hardly get his talking points out fast enough.

    CNN lines straight across the top for Obama on energy, now down as McCain talks. Way down for women.

    Comparing Obama to Hoover!

    Huh? (none / 0) (#112)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:56:30 PM EST
    Free trade = no preconditions?

    Herbert Hoover?

    Is anyone else confused here?

    McCain sounds like a rambling idiot. (none / 0) (#117)
    by CaptainAmerica08 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:57:47 PM EST


    Parent
    Palin (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:01:00 PM EST
    is rubbing off on him?

    Parent
    Raise taxes (none / 0) (#114)
    by kmblue on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:56:41 PM EST
    again!  omg  Thank God, health care comes up

    Obama's not sounding clear on free trade (none / 0) (#116)
    by BrassTacks on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:57:29 PM EST
    He's going to control China's currency?  He's going to stand up to other countries?  

    Criticizing Detroit for not building energy efficient cars soon enough.  Yawn.  No news here.  But some GM retirees might not like his answer.  

    Obama's doing that smirky thing again.  

    McCain sounds pretty good on free trade advantages.  

    Obama is going to improve health care AND save money.  I think we all know that is not possible.  But he does sound kind and concerned.  

    John Forgot To Take His Adderall Today (none / 0) (#119)
    by john horse on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:58:11 PM EST
    I've never seen a Presidential candidate who was so unfocused.  

    He is pretty focused (none / 0) (#129)
    by cpa1 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:00:41 PM EST
    but one nasty SOB and like you said, not very presidential

    Parent
    I agree with Obama (none / 0) (#122)
    by BrassTacks on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:59:12 PM EST
    On forcing people to get health insurance and making people get preventive care.  Oh, but it will cost more initially.   His plan is good.  

    preventative care (none / 0) (#125)
    by kmblue on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:00:08 PM EST
    Yes yes...thanks Obama--McCain is pushing the 5k
    refund...oh not Joe the plumber again...
    First my friend!

    btw, don't we already have phys ed and nutrition (none / 0) (#132)
    by snstara on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:01:36 PM EST
    plans in schools?

    What is McCain on about?  How does this relate to uninsured families??

    Not all schools these days (none / 0) (#142)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:04:59 PM EST


    Parent
    that's true - (none / 0) (#160)
    by snstara on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:15:02 PM EST
    Still, not sure where McCain's going with this as an 'insurance plan'.

    Parent
    I think it was pertaining to the (5.00 / 1) (#183)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:23:08 PM EST
    'lower the costs' part of the question, but it certainly was a clumsy transition!

    Parent
    McCain is smirking again (none / 0) (#134)
    by byteb on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:02:26 PM EST
    that means he's getting pissed

    If there's a plan that covers (none / 0) (#143)
    by kmblue on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:05:11 PM EST
    cosmetic surgery, I haven't heard of it.

    Me neither. I wish! I'd like a nose job (none / 0) (#148)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:07:18 PM EST


    Parent
    Joe's rich! (none / 0) (#144)
    by sallywally on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:05:30 PM EST
    CNN lines down, down, down for McCain. Going farther down.

    McCain equating transplants with cosmetic surgery.

    I hope this is McCain's legacy (5.00 / 2) (#161)
    by lilburro on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:15:25 PM EST
    Joe, you're rich.  Congratulations!

    Congratulations rich people!  You are so AWESOME!!

    Parent

    RAHR! (none / 0) (#145)
    by shoulin4 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:06:14 PM EST
    DEMOCRATS! CONTROL! TAXES! GOVERNMENT! RAHR!!

    Joe's rich! (none / 0) (#147)
    by sallywally on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:06:18 PM EST
    CNN lines down, down, down for McCain. Going farther down.

    McCain equating transplants with cosmetic surgery.

    Sorry for the double post. (none / 0) (#155)
    by sallywally on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:10:31 PM EST


    Parent
    Smile (none / 0) (#149)
    by lentinel on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:07:56 PM EST
    I don't care for Obama's smiling when McCain is talking about his proposals - because it reminds me of Gore's condescending sighs.

    He would be more effective imo if he looked serious and came back with a comprehensive rebuttal.

    Yeah, the smirking looks bad (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by BrassTacks on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:12:32 PM EST
    Someone needs to give Obama an elbow in the ribs and remind him to look serious, and cut out the smirking.  

    Parent
    Anyone else with BrassTacks. . . (none / 0) (#158)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:14:06 PM EST
    on this issue?  I'm listening on the radio, so I have no visuals (or, as I supposed I'm forced to call them these days, optics).

    Parent
    If you think Obama is bad (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by lilburro on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:16:13 PM EST
    you should see McCain.

    Parent
    I agree (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:18:21 PM EST
    Watching on the ABC split screen,  sometimes McCain is making a serious point  (however wrong), and Obama has a big grin. it does look bad, but I don't think it matters as much at this point in the game as the gore "sigh" fake issue thing.

    Parent
    You're right (none / 0) (#182)
    by Pepe on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:22:45 PM EST
    It won't make a difference in the election but it has been a year long preview of how he will be in the WH.

    Parent
    Obama doesn't bother me (5.00 / 0) (#168)
    by sallywally on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:18:33 PM EST
    McCain is surreal.

    Parent
    Yup (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by Pepe on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:19:31 PM EST
    Obama has been smirking the entire debate. Even laughing at times. Same as during the Clinton debates. Unfortunately for him it feeds his arrogance image. It's too bad he can't break that habit.

    Parent
    Yeah. (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:21:17 PM EST
    It's really killing him in the polls.

    Parent
    asdf (none / 0) (#196)
    by Pepe on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:27:40 PM EST
    http://www.talkleft.com/comments/2008/10/15/154116/81/182#182

    Remember the website coined after Bush's mannerisms  - The Smirking Chimp?

    Just what we need is another smirking president in the WH instead of someone with a serious demeanor as people have said in this thread.

    Parent

    right serious and even angry but (none / 0) (#153)
    by cpa1 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:10:17 PM EST
    controlled anger unlike McCain.

    Parent
    Finally (none / 0) (#152)
    by CST on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:09:49 PM EST
    John McCain said something I agree with.  Talking about a national health plan "that's big government at it's best"

    Also so far, Obama said he would support "unfar trade agreements" and McCain just called him "Senator Governer".

    I hate these things, and I have really started to despise McCain.  I didn't know I had such venom in me but these things get by blood pressure up.

    Transplants and Overhead Projectors (none / 0) (#164)
    by MTSINAIMAMA on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:16:29 PM EST
    If McNasty blinks anymore, he'll explode. And Schieffer is just awful.

    McCain sounds tired now (none / 0) (#174)
    by byteb on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:19:38 PM EST


    McCain said (none / 0) (#188)
    by lentinel on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:24:56 PM EST
    that Mr. Ayers hosted a coffee for Mr. Obama's first run for office.

    Obama denied it, but it seems to be a fact.

    I would find nothing wrong with the coffee party but if it is true, why would Obama deny it?

    It was for Alice someone's.... (none / 0) (#193)
    by sallywally on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:27:03 PM EST
    campaign, she was mentoring Obama and broght him along to introduce him to political folks in the Hyde Park area.

    Parent
    So it wasn't launching Obama's political career. (none / 0) (#198)
    by sallywally on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:28:07 PM EST
    The event was being held for someone else.

    Parent
    What McCain said. . . (none / 0) (#194)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:27:06 PM EST
    was that Obama "launched his campaign" in Ayers living room.  I don't believe it's true Obama launched either the current campaign, or any other, in Ayers living room -- although apparently there was an event there.

    Parent
    Palin has autistic kids too???? (none / 0) (#189)
    by sallywally on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:25:24 PM EST


    Good catch. n/t (none / 0) (#195)
    by lilburro on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:27:14 PM EST


    Parent
    Can you explain to me what n/t means? (none / 0) (#205)
    by sallywally on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:32:03 PM EST
    I can never figure it out from the letters themselves.

    OT, but I'd love to find out! It gets used a lot.

    Parent

    poor John is confused (none / 0) (#199)
    by byteb on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:28:14 PM EST


    Parent
    Transparency in education (none / 0) (#190)
    by BrassTacks on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:25:34 PM EST
    That really is a good idea.  But I cannot imagine it happening.

    McCain is incoherent (none / 0) (#191)
    by kmblue on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:25:38 PM EST
    now--reform, autism, cut spending.  Oh my

    I agree (none / 0) (#192)
    by lilburro on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:26:20 PM EST
    that this is the best I have ever seen Obama in a debate.  Heck this beats most of his speeches to me.  He knows his stuff.  It amazes me too that McCain always brings up Obama's record.  It makes him seem like he has a longer record than McCain USED to pretend he did in the pre-Palin campaign.  McCain is completely awful as a politican, completely awful.  His answers have been random.  His facial expressions malicious.  He is unable to provide necessary context for his obscure shots at Obama.

    Looks like we'll be getting President Obama.  Thank goodness.

    My friends! (none / 0) (#197)
    by kmblue on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:28:03 PM EST
    McCain closing he looks sad

    A healthy debate? (none / 0) (#200)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:28:38 PM EST
    Not for you, I think, Senator McCain.

    McCain ends his closing and I gag. (none / 0) (#203)
    by byteb on Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:29:39 PM EST


    leads our nation from current turmoil (none / 0) (#206)
    by dvdat on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 12:43:37 PM EST
    Senator Obama WON the debate by far. He was able to answer the questions to the point and describe what he plans to do, in regards to the tax  issues, the economic issues, health care, education, etc. I love the partnership he proposes, in the education field, for every student to get involved in community work, or government work, etc. to pay for the money received from government. He precisely answered the questions, which were asked by Bob Schieffer.
    Unlike Senator McCain, who appeared like having no clue on the questions asked by Bob Schieffer. Senator McCain kept on talking about the stuff he had in his mind, bringing up the non-relevant topics.
    The negativity and hostility is definitely not a quality I would look for, in our future President. I want our president, a precise, smart, and calculative to the point who understands us, and the conditions we are in. I expect our President to be a leader, who leads our nation from current turmoil...
    McCain's Lies! (none / 0) (#207)
    by Maximilian on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 12:17:41 PM EST
    Wow that was a killer debate. I thought that more attention needed to be brought to the candidates economic and foreign policy plans as well as a reduction in the brutal attacks of character. McCain went of and told so many lies during the debate that I could barely see straight. Anyways I made a youtube video of McCain's biggest lies so check it out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2vVFYYnNto and if you are interested on commenting on the debate's transcript itself or any other part of the world wide web then check out http://www.reframeit.com

    Final Obama-McCain Debate: Live Blog | 206 comments (206 topical)