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Decision Monday On Florida Re-Vote: Official Says Doesn't Look Good

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 01:53:06 PM EST
Tags: Florida '08 (all tags)
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Via the AP:

The head of Florida's Democratic Party said Thursday the proposed vote-by-mail presidential primary is unlikely to go forward because of strong opposition and concerns about conducting the vote.

[Karen]Thurman will review comments from Democratic leaders and make a decision by Monday on whether to proceed with the re-vote. But she acknowledged that Obama has had concerns and the Democratic National Committee won't support a proposal unless both candidates also back it. She said there's a serious question over whether the state could legally verify the signatures of a privately run election. "If this becomes something that we can't do, then we can't do it," Thurman said.

One added note: This is not an open thread. Comments not related to the revote and Florida primary will be deleted.

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    Decision Monday On Florida Re-Vote: Official Says Doesn't Look Good | 117 comments (117 topical)

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    Round the mulberry bush (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by Steve M on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 01:57:49 PM EST
    The DNC won't support it unless both candidates do.  And Obama's position is "we'll accept whatever the DNC does."  Around and around we go, running out the clock...

    We need a 527 group to help push the issue (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by ILTruthSeeker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:08:33 PM EST
    Someone needs to start raising money to pay for the re-votes and to educate the voters about what is at stake. Where are the big liberal fundraisers when we need them? James Carville challenged Obama supporter David Wilhelm to raise $15 million and get these votes done. It looks like we need to raise money to pressure Obama's campaign to accept the re-vote plans. No one should be allowed to disenfranchise Democratic voters. There should be ads up and running in Florida, Michigan and every future primary state explaining why we must not exclude Florida and Michigan voters from the process...neither Obama or Clinton should be allowed to stall or prevent these re-votes.

    If I hadn't read about how Obama cleared the (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by jawbone on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:39:32 PM EST
    primary field in his first run for the IL state senate, I wouldn't be quite so upset--but he has a history of clearing away his opponents when he runs for office.  

    What was the reasons given when he pulled his name off the MI primary form? The pledge was to not campaign, not to pull out. Was there a longterm strategy to that? Hhhmm. Yeah, I know, pure conjecture.

    Of course it wasn't printed in the paper (none / 0) (#89)
    by cmugirl on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:45:44 PM EST
    But the reason he pulled off(along with John Edwards) was a nod to the voters in IA and NH, so as not to upset them.  My own opinion is that he also counted on this type of scenario happening and he could stand back and say "Hey, we can't count Michigan because my name wasn't even on the ballot!" (although his surrogates got lots of media coverage that his voters should vote "uncommitted" so when the delegates were eventually seated, they could vote for him).  Dkos is to partially to blame to, because he encouraged Obama supporters to vote for Romney in the Republican field, to play havoc with their results.

    Parent
    It was printed (none / 0) (#91)
    by Steve M on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:47:34 PM EST
    right here.

    Five individuals connected to five different campaigns have confirmed -- but only under condition of anonymity -- that the situation that developed in connection with the Michigan ballot is not at all as it appears on the surface. The campaign for Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, arguably fearing a poor showing in Michigan, reached out to the others with a desire of leaving New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton as the only candidate on the ballot. The hope was that such a move would provide one more political obstacle for the Clinton campaign to overcome in Iowa.


    Parent
    Same difference (none / 0) (#99)
    by MKS on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:59:42 PM EST
    If Obama wasn't on the ballot, it's not a real election......

    Parent
    No win (none / 0) (#117)
    by waldenpond on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 03:38:15 PM EST
    and Clinton would be unable to have a win.

    Parent
    Republicans in primary (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by Step Beyond on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 03:20:43 PM EST
    I was reading the Q&A about the primary and saw this. I know some people have been wondering about Repubs voting in the Florida revote (if it happens).


    Q. Will Republicans and independents who already voted in the January 29th Republican primary be allowed to switch their registration and vote in the new contest?
    A. No one who voted in the Republican primary on Jan. 29 will be eligible to vote in the Democratic primary, even if they switch parties. Our voter file enables us to easily identify these voters.
    is it possible for florida to caucus? (none / 0) (#1)
    by cy street on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 01:57:38 PM EST
    is the mail in vote the only option on the table?

    The other option on the table (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Edgar08 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:09:54 PM EST
    Jan. 29.

    With all due respect to the caucus states, Texas exposed that system for the fraud it is.


    Parent

    edgar, i am not for caucus, (none / 0) (#23)
    by cy street on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:13:52 PM EST
    convention or primary.  i am just curious why there is only a mail in option being discussed.  if this is about seating florida, and neither campaign, then all options should be on the table, no?

    Parent
    I think this was the most economical choice n/t (none / 0) (#28)
    by Annie M on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:16:47 PM EST


    Parent
    It's less expensive (none / 0) (#29)
    by goldberry on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:17:04 PM EST
    and Oregon has done it successfully for years.  Traditional primaries are expensive.  Caucuses are undemocratic.  Mail in is cheap, doable and fair.  And Obama doesn't like that, apparently.  I predict by Monday, the Florida delegation will be seated.  It's his only way out.  

    Parent
    Not really (none / 0) (#30)
    by Edgar08 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:18:00 PM EST
    If the goal here is to right wrongs, a caucus will only create more wrongs.


    Parent
    in the event nothing gets approved, (none / 0) (#36)
    by cy street on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:20:52 PM EST
    is it not possible for the state dem party to stage a convention to seat its delegates?

    Parent
    I like the idea of (none / 0) (#57)
    by Edgar08 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:25:29 PM EST
    Dean apologizing and certifying the existing vote.

    Florida goes blue in November.


    Parent

    wont happen (none / 0) (#69)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:30:15 PM EST
    if there is no revote there will be a convention fight, walkouts, riots, half finished lattes flying everywhere, dogs and cats living together etc etc.


    Parent
    I'm a little sick and tired (none / 0) (#72)
    by Edgar08 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:32:15 PM EST
    of children getting their way.

    you're right.  They'll throw a hissy fit.

    Parent

    Funny! OT (none / 0) (#76)
    by cmugirl on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:38:42 PM EST
    ..."dogs and cats living together etc etc."

    the Republicans will run that as a fall ad:

    "If you vote for a Democrat, all hell will break loose.  The moral fiber of our society is broken so badly that 'dogs and cats are living together'" {shown by a photo of a dog and cat sitting on the couch, nuzzling)

    Parent

    I think this was thought to be the most economical (none / 0) (#32)
    by Annie M on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:18:52 PM EST
    and expedient choice.

    Parent
    Plus (none / 0) (#94)
    by eleanora on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:52:53 PM EST
    1.7 million voters in the FL Dem Primary vs. Dean's offer of 120,000 ballots for FL caucuses would just exacerbate the situation, especially if the outcome were notably different. Saying that "we want your vote to count" and then not having enough room/ballots/time for everyone to vote is bad politics, IMO.

    Parent
    I don't care what or how it's done; (none / 0) (#3)
    by magnetics on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:01:15 PM EST
    but a way has to be found not to disrespect 1.7 million Democratic primary voters in what is arguably the swing state.

    Otherwise bye bye general election, hello John McCain.

    I personally favor seating the delegates according to the original vote.  If Obama  won't support a revote, and nothing happens, then what?  Is he playing chicken, hoping to get the 50-50 split adopted?  If so, I will not vote for him in the general.  There.  I said it. And I am a yellow dog Democrat who has voted the party's presidential candidate unfailingly over the years, starting with McGovern in '72.  

    A 50-50 delegate split is the stupidest proposal I ever heard; can you say "Loser take all?" boys and girls?

    I think Hillary needs to nip this in the bud - (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Anne on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 03:01:25 PM EST
    frankly, the DNC needs to nip this in the bud - and she's going to have to do it by going one-on-one with Obama.

    She just needs to say something along the lines of: "There are 50 states in this United States, but the longer this drags on, the greater the risk that two states will be left out of the nominating process.  I am on the record stating that I believe the people of Florida (and Michigan) deserve to have their votes counted.  I am in favor of either awarding delegates based on the 1.75 million votes that were cast by Floridians, with all the candidates' names on the ballot, or having a re-vote.  Senator Obama is on the record stating that he will abide by the DNC's decision on the matter, but has raised objections to both a regular primary and a vote-by-mail primary, even though he co-sponsored a bill in the Senate that would pave the way for doing just that all across the country.  The only option Senator Obama and his surrogates are advocating is one that would divide the delegates equally between us, even though we did not equally split the January 29th vote, and Senator Edwards received almost 15% of the vote; this is not my definition of fair, and I suspect there are thousands of Floridians who would agree.  Voting is never perfect, which the people of Florida well know, but I think it is imperative that both Senator Obama and I focus on the larger principle at stake here - the right to be heard - get behind a re-vote, and let the chips fall where they may.  It is not serving the people well to allow this to get bogged down because the state party will not make a final decision until both candidates agree, and the DNC will not approve the plan until it has the state party approval; this is not acceptable, it is not leadership and it is not democratic."

    She needs to sound presidential, which will make Obama's petulance all the more visible and recognizable - and even if she has to shame him into doing the right thing, what matters is the right thing get done.


    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#10)
    by Claw on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:06:40 PM EST
    We have to get this done.  Somehow.  Obama (and I support him) needs to now get out in front with Hillary and advocate for SOME kind of a revote.

    Parent
    I support Obama (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by independent voter on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:10:56 PM EST
    and I think seating 50% of the delegates proportionally to how the votes were cast would be a decent compromise. The DNC still gets to "punish" Florida, the voters are represented (but with less of an impact than if they voted during the allowable dates), and Hillary Clinton would gain some delegates.
    I'm sure this idea will not be completely agreeable to any side, which is what makes it a fair way to handle the problem.

    Parent
    Why should Clinton be punished (none / 0) (#35)
    by Annie M on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:20:51 PM EST
    along with Florida?  She won and it looks like she could win again.  The 50/50 option is unfairly favorable to Obama in Florida.

    Parent
    miz clinton is not being punished. (none / 0) (#43)
    by cy street on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:22:15 PM EST
    florida is being punished for breaking party rules.

    Parent
    Sorry I'm not understanding your point.... (none / 0) (#79)
    by Annie M on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:39:44 PM EST
    A 50/50 split of delegates doesn't punish Florida as the delegates get seated, right?  It doesn't punish Obama as he get more delegates that he would have if they seated the delegates based on the Jan results.  The only one penalized in this case is Clinton.

    Parent
    annie, my point is simple. (none / 0) (#90)
    by cy street on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:46:13 PM EST
    the issue is florida, not obama or clinton.  their gov moved up the primary and the dnc nullified the process.

    i am not advancing a fifty/fifty split anymore than a mail in.  that is for florida to figure out.

    referencing the votes in january is irrelevant, not according to obama, according to howard dean.

    his decisions are the issue.

    Parent

    Think about it like this (none / 0) (#96)
    by independent voter on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:56:31 PM EST
    they get 1/2 vote each. The % of popular vote is still reflected. It is what the RNC did in Florida.

    Parent
    messes up popular vote totals doesn't it? (none / 0) (#102)
    by Dr Molly on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 03:04:28 PM EST


    Parent
    Not 50/50 (none / 0) (#52)
    by CST on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:24:48 PM EST
    But 50% proportional to what already happened.  This is what the GOP did with their delegates.

    Parent
    Sorry I was commenting on a 50/50 split (none / 0) (#85)
    by Annie M on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:44:13 PM EST
    my mistake!

    Parent
    I had to go back (none / 0) (#68)
    by independent voter on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:29:18 PM EST
    and read my post to make sure I put "proportionaly to how they voted" and yes, I did

    Parent
    Punish in any way shape or form (none / 0) (#40)
    by Edgar08 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:21:51 PM EST
    For the RNC moving up the date.

    Concede the state in November.

    Punish, even with quotation marks, is a polarizing word.

    My guess is the folks in FL aren't in the mood to be "punished."


    Parent

    Unless you are a Florida resident (none / 0) (#74)
    by independent voter on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:35:47 PM EST
    which I am, I don't see how you can make assumptions about the "folks in Florida"
    It is the exact same repercussion (if you prefer that word) that the Republicans suffered for violating party rules, and it is what the DNC would have done if they weren't so interested in making a statement and creating this whole debacle.
    Whatever is best for your candidate is not necessarily the correct solution.

    Parent
    Ha ha (none / 0) (#80)
    by Edgar08 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:40:21 PM EST
    Florida republicans don't care cause their race is over.

    Not only that, they can at least point to their own republican leaders moving up the date.

    I was betting that if you polled Floridian democrats about whether or not they deserve to be punished for voting on Jan. 29, they'd say "no."

    I'll take your personal testimony to the contrary under consideration.


    Parent

    It is not about whether the (none / 0) (#100)
    by independent voter on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 03:00:10 PM EST
    voters deserve to be punished. That was determined last year. Now it is about finding a way out that makes everyone moderately unhappy. That is the measure of true compromise.

    Parent
    It won't happen (none / 0) (#49)
    by Claw on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:23:27 PM EST
    I don't think Dean will seat them without some kind of a do-over.
    When it does happen, I will happily eat crow.  
    If it does happen, however, and it costs Obama the nomination, we will have lost a lot of voters.  NOT A THREAT.  I'm just callin' it like I see it.  I'll still happily campaign for, and vote for, Hillary given that scenario.

    Parent
    It's the only way people can dream of (none / 0) (#83)
    by Edgar08 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:43:23 PM EST
    to make their case..   Give us our way or we won't vote in November.

    I think it's time everyone start to realize this is what the Democratic Party is really all about.

    At least the direction it's being taken by Obama supporters.

    I'm unimpressed, and probably won't go along for the ride that much longer.


    Parent

    I think we can find (none / 0) (#112)
    by independent voter on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 03:29:35 PM EST
    just as many instances of Clinton supporters threatening the same thing. It's ridiculous on either side, and I bet it will not last through November no matter who gets the nomination, and no matter how long it takes to get there. People are going to wake up one day and say I CANNOT BE RESPONSIBLE IN ANY WAY FOR JOHN MCCAIN GETTING INTO THE WHITE HOUSE!
    I certainly hope I am not giving the electorate too much credit.


    Parent
    well I hope your right cause I am (none / 0) (#114)
    by Florida Resident on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 03:31:19 PM EST
    Hoping for the same thing.

    Parent
    I see no basis for your headline at all (none / 0) (#4)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:01:41 PM EST
    There is nothing new in what we heard from yesterday.

    How it looks? Pretty good imo. Who is going to say no? No one has said no. "Concerns" are not no.

    What about her use of "unlikely"? (none / 0) (#6)
    by JJE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:04:02 PM EST
    Thurman has been as bad as the DNC in this fiasco, IMO.

    Parent
    It's a direct quote (none / 0) (#9)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:06:23 PM EST
    from the person who will make the decision. It's a brand new wire story.

    Parent
    It is not (none / 0) (#18)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:10:40 PM EST
    It is a quote from Nedra Pickler. This is the quote from Thurman:

    "When asked if the alternative will be implemented, knowing what she knows about potential problems executing the plan and widespread concerns, Thurman said, "I have a feeling that this is probably closer to not, than yes."

    Less than 50/50? 50/50? My view of the proper headline is this "FL Revote Still Up In the Air."

    Not looking good seems to me to be simply an improper interpretation.  It is one designed to discourage support for a revote. I want to see a Florida story on this frankly as opposed to an AP story.

    Parent

    Good catch (none / 0) (#26)
    by JJE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:16:01 PM EST
    The Pickler rears its nefarious head again!  Although I guess "unlikely" could have come from Farrington or Babington.

    Parent
    3/12 Florida story (none / 0) (#77)
    by MKS on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:38:43 PM EST
    Here is a Florida story from yesterday:

    "Our obligation is to build the vehicle. Whether or not it's got gas in it ... is to be determined," said House Democratic Leader Dan Gelber of Miami. "I still think it's probably less than 50-50."

    Do a deal:  Seat Mich 50-50, which is what current polling suggests would be the result of a re-vote; Penalize Florida half of their delegates--as did the Republicans, so no advantage Republicans...The rules are enforced and the delegates are seated....Hillary picks up a net 19 delegates....Mucho money saved.

    Parent

    But it's not just about delegates (none / 0) (#103)
    by Dr Molly on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 03:06:23 PM EST
    Doesn't this potentially screw Clinton out of the number of popular votes she could get over Obama?

    Parent
    She could claim the (none / 0) (#106)
    by MKS on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 03:10:53 PM EST
    popular votes from the first election.....How much attention the SDs would pay to that...Who knows....

    Parent
    Is the head of the FL (none / 0) (#5)
    by Kathy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:03:24 PM EST
    dem party a Clinton or Obama supporter?  Because it seems that we get different temperatures on the revote depending on which candidate they back.

    I wonder if there is a way for Clinton to more vocally demand the revote so that folks realize that it's Obama holding it up?

    this is an excellent point. (none / 0) (#13)
    by cy street on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:08:42 PM EST
    whoever is involved in this process should disavow all campaigning in florida and beyond.  getting this right is more important than either candidate.

    hopefully, our florida brothers and sisters work it out for themselves, instead of either campaign.

    this is about florida, not miz clinton, nor mister obama.

    Parent

    I assume the latter ... (none / 0) (#24)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:14:18 PM EST
    that seems to be how things are working this year.

    Parent
    Practically (none / 0) (#25)
    by Kathy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:15:35 PM EST
    are you being funny and I'm just being stupid?  Because she released a statement saying that very thing just yesterday, didn't she?  A letter to Poofle?

    Parent
    I thought Carville raising the money (none / 0) (#27)
    by katiebird on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:16:25 PM EST
    was a pretty strong message.  Why would he have done that if Hillary wasn't on-board?

    Parent
    i disagree with your advice. (none / 0) (#31)
    by cy street on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:18:04 PM EST
    i believe both campaigns should stay away from the process.  the more involved they become, the less chance florida has.

    whether you support miz clinton or mister obama, you have to know both will try to game the system.  that is politics.

    this process would benefit without the muck and should be able to be handled by those who created it:  florida and the dnc.

    personally, i hold dean responsible.  all he had to do is what the rnc did.  penalize the delegate appointments by half and count the popular vote.

    keep the campaigns out for the sake of florida.

    Parent

    but that's not really possible (none / 0) (#34)
    by JJE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:20:10 PM EST
    the DNC has made statements suggesting it won't take anything if the candidates don't agree.  So they have to be involved for a revote to happen.

    Parent
    fair enough. (none / 0) (#53)
    by cy street on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:24:59 PM EST
    but they do not be involved in the process.  make proposals.  agree.  disagree.

    keep the campaigns out of florida and dnc negotiations.

    if those two can come up with a plan, then it will be difficult for either campaign to disagree.  if the campaigns are involved, we both know they will never agree.

    i hate this.

    Parent

    I have less confidence (none / 0) (#61)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:27:20 PM EST
    in the DNC than in either campaign

    Parent
    agreed. (none / 0) (#70)
    by cy street on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:31:08 PM EST
    poor leadership at the dnc and the elected leadership have failed us all on this critical matter.

    this would be mute if dems did the same as the refuglicans.  hurts to write those words, but in this instance, it is true.

    Parent

    the less chance florida has (none / 0) (#44)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:22:19 PM EST
    you could be right but Dean keeps saying they have to be involved

    Parent
    I have a sinking feeling. (none / 0) (#7)
    by Iphie on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:04:53 PM EST
    If Obama can veto any option, I don't see how we're ever going to get anywhere; he clearly does not want either a re-vote in FL or to uphold the results of the first vote. Given that it is African Americans who are so often the victims of disenfranchisement, how is this not causing enormous outrage, especially in FL?

    Soon there will be only one option (none / 0) (#50)
    by goldberry on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:23:52 PM EST
    He is rapidly boxing himself into a corner.  Clinton is not going to blink on this.  

    Parent
    if if doesnt look (none / 0) (#8)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:06:02 PM EST
    that mean it looks bad

    I just don't want ... (none / 0) (#11)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:07:54 PM EST
    Obama to get away with not officially saying "no," by tacitly saying "no."

    And then they spin for weeks that they weren't opposed to revotes.

    So, what's the obstacle (none / 0) (#14)
    by Kathy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:08:46 PM EST
    to a full-blown primary?  Surely it can't be money.

    Parent
    they will think of something (none / 0) (#17)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:10:06 PM EST


    Parent
    In FL a change ... (none / 0) (#22)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:13:05 PM EST
    in the voting machines for the GE prevents them from holding a standard (vote in person) primary before the deadline.

    So mail-in is the only option.

    Parent

    Is there a link for this? Thnx. (none / 0) (#39)
    by jawbone on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:21:22 PM EST


    Parent
    Read the plan ... (none / 0) (#48)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:23:22 PM EST
    on this site, it's discussed in there.

    Parent
    by tacitly saying "no." (none / 0) (#55)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:25:13 PM EST
    hasnt he done that already?


    Parent
    That's my point ... (none / 0) (#60)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:26:48 PM EST
    I just want him to get away with it.  If he's against it, I want him to say it.

    Parent
    Typo: I DON'T want him to get away with it. (none / 0) (#62)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:27:38 PM EST


    Parent
    I knew what you meant (none / 0) (#64)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:28:34 PM EST
    I being the last person to point out typeos

    Parent
    good luck with that (none / 0) (#63)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:28:04 PM EST


    Parent
    I have been saying (none / 0) (#15)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:09:09 PM EST
    it seems less and less likely.
    this is depressing.  circus convention here we come.

    I am not much of a believer in polls but (none / 0) (#21)
    by Florida Resident on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:12:17 PM EST
    this morning local news were reporting that a survey among Fl Democrats resulted in 1 in 4 saying that if the delegates are not counted they would not vote in November.

    2 polls (none / 0) (#42)
    by Step Beyond on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:22:13 PM EST
    There was that Geller poll which was just of those who voted in the primary and which only 63% said they would vote for the dem if their votes didn't count.

    I saw another poll today which said 31% of Dems were less likely to vote for the Dem if delegates weren't seated.

    Parent

    Well I guess the DNC et al have (none / 0) (#56)
    by Florida Resident on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:25:16 PM EST
    a secret plan in which they don't need Florida or MI

    Parent
    Plan (none / 0) (#104)
    by Step Beyond on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 03:10:22 PM EST
    My personal opinion based on Dean's statements last summer/fall was that he thinks that people will care more about Iraq, etc than about the primary. So they didn't need to do anything to earn votes as who else were Dems going to vote for?

    Parent
    Seat half the delegation (none / 0) (#33)
    by MKS on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:19:03 PM EST
    If there is not a clear proposal soon--there will be no re-vote.....which ideally would be the best solution....but events and problems intervene.....

    One true problem is getting information & signatures from the State of Florida--to make sure Republicans who voted the first time around don't vote in any re-do, and to verify the Democratic signatures on any mail-in ballots.....But it is apparently illegal for the State of Florida to relase such information....

    And, there appears no way the delegations will be seated as-is.....

    Wasserman Shultz, a rising star and Hillary supporter, opposes a re-vote along with the rest of the Democratic members of the House from Florida....

    Somebody had better get a hold of this process or will it fall of its own weight....Plus, who will pay for it?  Too many problems.....

    How would Republicans vote? Primaries are Closed. (none / 0) (#38)
    by Florida Resident on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:21:17 PM EST


    Parent
    Repubs are allowing FL to seat half their reg (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by jawbone on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:24:38 PM EST
    delegate count.

    Which is what the Dems should do by fiat from the DNC---IF there is no mail-in or voting primary re-do.

    I cannot believe the Dems are doing this to the numbers of Dems who turned out to vote. And it wasn't the FL Dem Party who did this date change.

    Major FUBAR.

    I have a distinct memory of most reports sort of giving a wink-and-a-nod to the idea that, after all, the delegates would be seated. But I think that was when the DNC thought there would be a clear winner.

    Way to go, Dr. Dean.

    Parent

    By changing their (none / 0) (#47)
    by MKS on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:22:52 PM EST
    registration to Democrat.....

    Parent
    They Still have the Old Registration Rolls. (none / 0) (#59)
    by Florida Resident on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:26:18 PM EST
    Use those lists for the Mail-In vote.

    Parent
    Not legal (none / 0) (#71)
    by MKS on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:31:31 PM EST
    to share the info, or so it is reported....That's the problem....

    Parent
    not legal to share with whom (none / 0) (#75)
    by Florida Resident on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:35:48 PM EST
    parties have that info all the time how do you think they get your name to solicit money from you?  How do you think they send you the instructions and offers of help for the GOTV drives?  Magic?

    Parent
    It's the signatures (none / 0) (#81)
    by MKS on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:41:47 PM EST
    (and I think the records of who voted in the Primary)....This is what everyone is referring to when they talk about issues with fraud--the inability to verify signatures on mail-in ballots by comparing them with the signatures on record with the State of Florida.....The signatures would be protected for obvious reasons....

    Parent
    but the signatures have nothing (none / 0) (#92)
    by Florida Resident on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:48:43 PM EST
    to do with being a Republican or not.  If you were not in the Lists of democrats in Jan 29 you don't get to vote.  It don't matter who voted or not in Jan 29 since is a re-vote.  The signature part I think there might be a provision to cover that in Fl. that would have to be checked.

    Parent
    The current plan (none / 0) (#97)
    by MKS on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:57:13 PM EST
    allows for new voter registration for a few weeks...Independents, etc., get a chance to join....Can't refuse Repbulicans the chance to switch either....That's the current plan.....Mucho mischief possible...

    Parent
    but hasn't the Obama camp been (none / 0) (#105)
    by Florida Resident on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 03:10:28 PM EST
    saying that kind of mischief is negligible when the subject has been brought up during the Open primaries and Caucuses?

    Parent
    It would be the voting twice (none / 0) (#110)
    by MKS on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 03:22:49 PM EST
    Once for McCain and then once in the Democratic re-do....

    Parent
    Look if you think that someone would (none / 0) (#111)
    by Florida Resident on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 03:26:09 PM EST
    do that then you have to admit that they would also vote in a open primary or caucus to affect the results.  You can't say that people aren't that conniving for one thing but are for the other.

    Parent
    Except (none / 0) (#113)
    by Step Beyond on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 03:30:50 PM EST
    Thurman has said they are not allowing anyone who voted in the Repub primary to vote in the revote. They have that list of voters already. So there may be mischief but I don't see mucho mischief. :D

    Parent
    I agree I know I shouldn't get a Mail-in vote (none / 0) (#115)
    by Florida Resident on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 03:34:03 PM EST
    cause I was a registered Republican in 1/29 although I am a Registered Democrat now.

    Parent
    To many rumors (none / 0) (#45)
    by cannondaddy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:22:36 PM EST
    Here's another one...

    Yep (none / 0) (#58)
    by MKS on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:26:15 PM EST
    It avoids all the brain damage and expense of having a re-do....It seats the delegations with a penalty--which is what the Republicans did....So, the Republicans can gain no advantage in Florida over this issue....

    Parent
    Hillary should pass (none / 0) (#65)
    by goldberry on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:28:36 PM EST
    She won the delegates fair and square.  This is just a watered down attempt to make them not count.  As long as they are in her corner, she should stand her ground and demand seating them as is or a revote.  

    Parent
    Hillary should pass (none / 0) (#67)
    by goldberry on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:29:01 PM EST
    She won the delegates fair and square.  This is just a watered down attempt to make them not count.  As long as they are in her corner, she should stand her ground and demand seating them as is or a revote.  

    Parent
    if miz clinton won them fair and square, (none / 0) (#73)
    by cy street on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:35:06 PM EST
    why would suggest the acceptance of a revote?  the outcome will likely be different.  if she won them fair and square, why are we having this discussion?

    Parent
    She's being the better person (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by goldberry on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:59:33 PM EST
    She's giving the uncommitted in MI the chance to committ, possibly against her.  She is willing to take the risk in both states if it means the full slate of delegates get seated.  
    What you should be asking is why isn't Obama willing to take the same risk for the good of the party?  And if it's because he fears he will lose, then on what basis does he claim a right to demand or deny delegates?

    Parent
    Bcz she's trying to work WITH Obama to make (none / 0) (#82)
    by jawbone on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:42:19 PM EST
    sure FL and MI get their delegates counted? Their votes represented?

    Just a thought.

    It would be to her benefit to get the results as they stand--which Obama will not tolerate, nor do some voters in MI think that's fair, since they couldn't vote for Obama or some other Dems bcz they took their names off the ballot.

    Parent

    Hillary knows (none / 0) (#84)
    by MKS on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:44:03 PM EST
    she cannot get the delegates seated as is......She doesn't have that kind of muscle at the convention....Pelosi is turning out to be one problematic foe of Hillary.

    Parent
    Why miz clinton? (none / 0) (#108)
    by katiebird on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 03:19:21 PM EST
    Is it a deliberate slur? It sounds terrible.

    Parent
    why would i slur the candidate i (none / 0) (#121)
    by cy street on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 06:06:03 PM EST
    voted for?

    Parent
    Senator Edwards (none / 0) (#88)
    by eleanora on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:45:36 PM EST
    was still in the race in both MI and FL and won 14.8% of the vote and 13 delegates in Florida. He removed his name from the ballot in MI and based on exit polls, about 14% of the Uncommitted vote was for him. After Edwards suspended his campaign, he did not release his delegates to either of the others.

    Would he accept being totally shut out of Michigan's delegate count like that? I haven't heard anyone even mention him being asked about all this.

    Parent

    Obama can't disenfranchise FL (none / 0) (#46)
    by tworivers on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:22:49 PM EST
    I am an Obama supporter, but I think he either needs to get behind a revote in FL, or just accept the existing results from Jan.  To do anything else would look bad and would decrease any sense of legitimacy he might have if he ends up winning the nomination.

    BTW if they were to use the existing FL results, what would Hillary's net delegate gain be?  Apologies if this has already been covered.

    Florida 08 (none / 0) (#93)
    by eleanora on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:48:47 PM EST
    Candidate Vote Totals % Delegates

    Hillary Clinton 870,986 49.77% 105

    Barack Obama 576,214 32.93% 67

    John Edwards 251,562 14.38% 13


    Parent

    Thanks! (none / 0) (#95)
    by tworivers on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:54:50 PM EST


    Parent
    Is it wrong of me? I feel guilty (none / 0) (#54)
    by cmugirl on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:25:02 PM EST
    To secretly hope that if they can't get a FAIR resolution to this mess, that they don't plan to seat Michigan and Florida, and the voters in the rest of the states wake up and blame Obama for not fighting for those people?  I also hope, if this happens, the SD's take the votes of Michigan and Florida and Obama's position on them into account, knowing full well ignoring these two states could cost us an election we should win with our eyes closed.

    No revote is going to occur. (none / 0) (#86)
    by MarkL on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:44:23 PM EST
    It's time to start focusing on seating the delegations as is.
    That is the fairest remaining option.

    I don't understand why it is OK for the DNC to so (none / 0) (#87)
    by athyrio on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:44:46 PM EST
    openly support one candidate against another one...should'nt they be neutral?? I don't get why that is allowed..

    Gotta wait this out ... (none / 0) (#107)
    by chemoelectric on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 03:11:04 PM EST
    ... but if a re-vote can't be done then seating the current proportion of delegates might be the best thing.

    A privately run election is probably an awful idea, anyway.

    Rules committee (none / 0) (#116)
    by jarober on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 03:37:29 PM EST
    I think you're staring down the barrel of a rules committee ruling at/before the convention, because the Clinton campaign - rightly so, IMHO - won't let this go.

    Actuall that's the rules (none / 0) (#118)
    by Florida Resident on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 03:39:03 PM EST
    and it should be the FDC who should take it to the Rules Committee

    Parent
    Why a re-do will NOT happen in Florida (none / 0) (#119)
    by BlueTonguedVole on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 03:42:40 PM EST
    The folks who are speculating about a primary re-do have forgotten that Florida is a State which has its own election laws.

    Now in order for any re-do of a primary election to happen a number of very unlikely things will need to happen.

    1. The Florida state legislature would need to RE-WRITE Florida election law or pass a bill through both the House and Senate which would allow such a special event/election.
    Caveat: Republicans are in the majority in both legislative bodies, AND the Democrats DO NOT want a re-do.

    1. So, we have no legislation which would make this election possible.  

    2. If there was a snowstorm in Hades and the legislature did pass such a bill, then the Republican Governor would have to sign the bill or have it overridden if he vetoed it.

    Now, we have a blizzard in Hades and global warming is off...

    Then in snowy south Florida, imagine that all the Republicans who have already voted in the Republican primary decide they really want to be Democrats...and they re-register in time to vote in the re-do, or new voters move in or become of age and register.  

    People who have already voted in another party's primary would then vote in the Democratic primary either in Florida or another state!

    A redo, nope, Florida is hot: snow flurries seldom fall and blizzards?  Nope never.

    How come no one on the news does any research on local laws? DUH.

    Well (none / 0) (#120)
    by Step Beyond on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 04:06:24 PM EST
    Actually they don't need to rewrite the law for an election to take place. Thurman has said that the state law would apply to state run elections not a privately held election which this would be. The press has been misreporting that info.

    Now there is something else in the press this morning about the state not sharing siggys. But there are conflicting stories still on that issue so it's hard to say. Crist has said the state would share.

    Parent

    Decision Monday On Florida Re-Vote: Official Says Doesn't Look Good | 117 comments (117 topical)

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