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Hillary Obama PA Debate: Live Blog (I)

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:43:35 PM EST
Tags: Democrats Debate, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama (all tags)
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This is it. The Pennsylvania debate between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.

If you're not by a tv or on the East Coast, you can watch online here.

Big Tent Democrat and I will be live-blogging starting just before 6:00 pm.

I'll be putting up some polls during the debate to see how you think the candidates and questioners are doing. Big Tent's posts will say BTD and mine will be TL.

The live blog stays below the fold so that it can be a bit wider than the front page allows. Just click on the "There's More" button or bookmark the permalink to go directly to it.

If comments hit 200, we'll start a new one.

Comments now closed, new thread up.

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    Hillary Obama PA Debate: Live Blog (I) | 233 comments (233 topical)
    If you're having trouble with the feed (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:02:05 PM EST
    paste the following into your media player, but replace http with mms.

    This is the link.

    I really hope (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by americanincanada on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:03:02 PM EST
    that supporters of both candidates hold down on the booing and such.

    I Hate That (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by BDB on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:24:02 PM EST
    Even when I agree with it, I hate it.  Very rude.  

    Parent
    OH NO (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:03:49 PM EST
    he's opening with BitterCling!

    We must create a cocktail (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by catfish on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:08:45 PM EST
    to celebrate that phrase. BitterCling. The debate-watching drink.

    Parent
    LOL - contains bitters (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:10:07 PM EST
    and Cointreau?

    Parent
    Grapefruit and Molassas and Drambuie (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by Salo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:12:38 PM EST


    Parent
    Heh heh heh (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:15:02 PM EST
    you must be from the "creative class!" ;-)

    Parent
    ###Gross!@## (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by themomcat on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:20:53 PM EST
    Yuchhh. Grapefruit juice and molasses. You should never be allowed to bartend. ;-)

    Parent
    Oh these debates (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:04:39 PM EST
    are always so weird...with the podiums and stuff.  But they make great SNL skits.

    Wow... (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by americanincanada on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:04:42 PM EST
    can't believe he went there right away.

    it's like picking a scab (none / 0) (#13)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:05:44 PM EST
    he just can't leave it alone.

    Parent
    Not watching (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by nell on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:06:51 PM EST
    my stomach is too tied up in knots for her, but he HAD to go there to clear the air on his own terms.

    Parent
    you should watch (none / 0) (#17)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:07:36 PM EST
    Hillary rocks in debates!

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by nell on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:09:54 PM EST
    I know, but when he attacks her I get so fighting mad. Truth be told, I cannot stand to listen to him. It would get exhausting to have to keep muting him. It is a weird feeling when someone speaking annoys you more than GWB, but he does...what can I say...

    Parent
    I know what you mean (none / 0) (#88)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:22:52 PM EST
    if he becomes POTUS, I'll be tuning him out on a regular basis.

    Parent
    Once you start you can't stop. (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Salo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:08:39 PM EST
    bitter is justified, but no you aint bitter, your bitter enough Hillary!

    Parent
    it's all very Orwellian. (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Salo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:06:42 PM EST
    it's true, inartful, insulting bitter, frustrating etc.

    He sounded (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by americanincanada on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:08:01 PM EST
    bitter and defensive.

    Ayiyi (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:10:03 PM EST
    a little late to become a populist, Obama.

    OMG (5.00 / 6) (#37)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:11:46 PM EST
    She is absolutely nailing this response.

    And she's generously giving him credit for feeling the same way, when he doesn't.

    And she's blaming Bush.

    Could she be any more Presidential?

    [sorry but she's so good at this, will stop raving now]

    Obama just seems halting to me (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:13:15 PM EST


    So what else is new? (none / 0) (#42)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:13:35 PM EST


    Parent
    Talked around it. (none / 0) (#48)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:14:17 PM EST


    Parent
    Obama (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:14:28 PM EST
    just needs to say he's sorry.  He never addresses that anti-immigrant, anti-trade part of the quote, which people do actually know about.  His explanations and rationalizations just sound dumb.  

    and Obama has said he won't apologize (none / 0) (#77)
    by Josey on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:20:04 PM EST
    He merely expressed regret that his intellectual analyzing of gun toting Bible thumpin racists offended them.


    Parent
    What a crappy question (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:17:31 PM EST
    from Stephanopoulos.  

    They're looking for a "gotcha!" moment.

    Obama says that he's (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:19:48 PM EST
    done more to reach out to people of faith. Don't we remember.

    I cannot believe (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by americanincanada on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:23:14 PM EST
    he brought up the cookie thing. it was totally different.

    cookie thing? (none / 0) (#98)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:24:10 PM EST


    Parent
    Wrightgate now.... (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:24:07 PM EST
    I'm sure they will get to Bosnia gate, but right now its Obamagates.

    Lousy (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by americanincanada on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:25:48 PM EST
    answer by Obama. How could he not have known the Wright subject would come up? He seemed totally unprepared for that.

    BTD -- Get Used to It (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by cdalygo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:26:23 PM EST
    This is what will happen if and when he gets the nomination.

    Press will lay into him.

    Now let's see how he handles it. Good answer so far on Wright -- but then he falls back on who he is the one.

    Successful in bridging lines doesn't occur when you let your campaign race bait. Let's see if she goes after him on race baiting.

    this is like an anti-NBC Debate. that is wrong. (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by BDB on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:27:47 PM EST
    I agree that it's wrong, but we might as well see how he deals with it (if it continues, which I'm betting it won't).   He's going to get it all through the general with McCain.  

    9/11 (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by Klio on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:27:52 PM EST
    great reply by HRC

    wow, this is brutal (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by boredmpa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:28:51 PM EST
    Most brutal I've seen, i can't imagine 90 minutes of this on both candidates.

    Obama looks mad (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by kmblue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:28:51 PM EST
    about the grilling re Wright.

    Makes you wonder (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:30:00 PM EST
    how  he'd hold up in the GE vs. McCain.

    Parent
    20 yrs and 20K (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by phillhrrll on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:29:00 PM EST
    yet didn't hear a thing.....right

    Obama can say "I didn't know - (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by Anne on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:29:11 PM EST
    I didn't know" over and over and over, but the more he says it, the less believable it is.

    BTD, it's a big deal. Might as well get it over (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:29:23 PM EST
    with. It's the first primary and debate post-Wright. I know it seems unfair but it needs answered and put behind him.

    I still think they'll go after Hillary too.

    I Disagree. (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by AmyinSC on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:29:50 PM EST
    This is one of the VERY few times that he has actually had to take some responsibility.  

    Or you could look at it as him being given the opportunity AGAIN to set the record straight.  

    That was a crazy question by Stephanapolis... (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:29:53 PM EST
    ...he is being really pissy.

    What did George ask? (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by MarkL on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:31:35 PM EST


    Parent
    !!! "love america as much as you" (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by boredmpa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:30:27 PM EST
    This is horrible...

    I think he's going to face worst in the ge also (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by gish720 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:30:28 PM EST
    I'm sure they're going to hammer Hillary on the Bosnia stuff soon...this is almost the first time he's faced tough questions. Except for the one time he was asked about the Farrakhan issue.

    My theory is that (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by Anne on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:30:54 PM EST
    they are going after Obama so that when or if his numbers do not take a nosedive, that will be "proof" that the SD's can commit and Obama can win.

    It's like they are putting on a new layer of Teflon.

    Oh now he's disowned (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:31:01 PM EST
    Rev. Wright? Or just the comments?

    This is kind of a BS issue to me, but I do enjoy seeing Obama squirm.

    Now they're asking him if he (5.00 / 2) (#130)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:31:03 PM EST
    "disowns" Wright.

    Ugh.

    Steph is ridiculous (5.00 / 2) (#134)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:31:37 PM EST
    who cares how patriotic wright is?

    Hillary, just let it go.

    Bizarro world (5.00 / 2) (#136)
    by kmblue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:31:40 PM EST
    Clinton is usually the punching bag.

    Drop it Hillary. (5.00 / 2) (#137)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:31:46 PM EST


    Ruh Roh.... (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:32:29 PM EST
    ...told you he pissed her off.

    Why Pols Can't Stop Talking (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by BDB on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:36:04 PM EST
    They talk for a living and therefore believe they can always talk their way out of anything.  I used to represent stock brokers before the SEC. Exact same problem.  We spent most of our time teaching them to STFU.  I'd say only worked about half the time.

    Dang, they phrase it sweetly but these are (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:36:05 PM EST
    daggers.

    Oh my lord, this is horrible. (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:38:11 PM EST


    Oh, noes! (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:38:35 PM EST
    The American flag!

    I'm not an Obama supporter but this is ridiculous.

    Amazing how (none / 0) (#174)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:40:21 PM EST
    much less inspiring Obama's story seems when he is constantly being attacked.  This is a nutty debate.  

    Parent
    I see the potential (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:39:32 PM EST
    for a sympathy vote here. (for OBAMA).

    The Weather Underground!!!!! (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:41:29 PM EST
    This is outrageous.

    I know I shouldn't be loving this, (none / 0) (#190)
    by dk on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:42:44 PM EST
    but after the months of Hillary bashing we've seen, I think one of these kinds of debates is ok.

    Parent
    They're going to ask him about Rezko next. (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:41:56 PM EST


    William Ayers (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by facta non verba on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:42:14 PM EST
    OMG.

    They Asked Him About the Flag Pin (5.00 / 2) (#187)
    by BDB on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:42:17 PM EST
    I just know tomorrow that's going to be Hillary's fault.

    And this is why Josh Marshall and Kos and every other blogger who has given up honest media criticism because you enjoyed watching Hillary get mistreated at debates and by the media because it helped your guy that YOU DON'T DO THAT.  Because, in the end, these people aren't our friends.  They're John McCain friends.

    Oh Hillary, don't. . . . (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:43:22 PM EST


    Ayers is NOT irrelevant, sorry! (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by MarkL on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:43:37 PM EST
    It speaks to the same question as Wright, which is Obama's inability to disassociate himself from politically toxic people. Ayers is an unrepentant terrorist murderer. Obama served on a board with him for 3 years, and took his money. I find it a legitimate issue.

    In that Sept 11,2001 interview (none / 0) (#227)
    by RalphB on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:52:00 PM EST
    Ayers called me the terrorist because I served in the Marine Corps in Vietnam.  As far as I am concerned, he's scum and has never served a day of time or repented for his domestic terrorism.  It can be a big deal for old guys like me.

    The two people Clinton pardoned had served time for their crimes and I'm fine with that.
     

    Parent

    This is an inoculation - for Obama - (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by Anne on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:43:43 PM EST
    they're getting it all out on the table, so he can get it behind him.

    For the Lord's sake (5.00 / 1) (#209)
    by kmblue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:45:16 PM EST
    all those who were silent when Hillary
    got hammered by the MSM, take a bow.
    IMHO, it's preview night for Obama's GE.
    God help us!

    She just hit (5.00 / 1) (#210)
    by facta non verba on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:45:17 PM EST
    a grand slam with the line on the GOP.

    Plouffe's email tomorrow... (none / 0) (#218)
    by Dawn Davenport on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:47:46 PM EST
    ...will read:

    SEN. CLINTON DEMANDS ONE-PARTY SYSTEM

    Parent

    Haven't seen BTD this upset before (1.00 / 1) (#138)
    by catfish on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:31:50 PM EST
    about the unfairness.

    Read the Live Blog of the Last NBC Debate (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by BDB on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:33:48 PM EST
    It's a classic.  BTD hammers NBC for its treatment of Hillary.  

    I'm not watching this one, but it sounds just as bad.

    The media isn't any democrat's friend.  Ever.

    Parent

    Is this really it? No NC debate for sure? (none / 0) (#1)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:51:45 PM EST


    I wonder (none / 0) (#2)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:00:30 PM EST
    if they'll ask Hillary to declare her love for the Phillies and Pirates?

    She'd better not!!! ;-)

    There's Chelsea! (none / 0) (#4)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:02:12 PM EST


    Good (none / 0) (#6)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:03:09 PM EST
    no applause.

    They can't even applaud! (none / 0) (#7)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:03:15 PM EST
    I wonder if they'll boo!

    Shout out to Latrobe (none / 0) (#9)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:03:49 PM EST
    but can Barack bring back Rolling Rock?!

    Obama (none / 0) (#10)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:04:00 PM EST
    rephrasing bitterness as frustration.

    HRC was uplifting and positive (none / 0) (#15)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:06:46 PM EST
    whereas Obama was immediately defensive.

    IMHO of course. ;-)

    I also noticed (none / 0) (#20)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:08:25 PM EST
    he didn't reference her at all in his opening statement, but she mentioned him.

    Parent
    She is gracious as always. (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:09:26 PM EST


    Parent
    Commercials already? criminy. (none / 0) (#18)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:07:56 PM EST
    I thought Hillary's statement sounded fresher.  But them I'm a sucker for 'we the people' constitution talk. Hope she stays in that theme.

    Oooh (none / 0) (#23)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:08:49 PM EST
    the Cuomo solution!

    Oh, boo! (none / 0) (#24)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:09:06 PM EST
    What a stupid question.  Joint ticket - bleh.

    thinks highly of her record (none / 0) (#26)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:09:31 PM EST
    not of her.  Nice.

    I noticed that too (none / 0) (#33)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:10:42 PM EST
    what a guy!

    Parent
    heh, she's got the better answer. (none / 0) (#36)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:11:34 PM EST


    Parent
    i noticed (none / 0) (#34)
    by Klio on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:11:14 PM EST
    seemed churlish :-(

    Parent
    Wha..? (none / 0) (#46)
    by nell on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:14:04 PM EST
    He didn't SAY that did he? The "but not her" part???

    Parent
    No he didn't say it (none / 0) (#55)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:16:18 PM EST
    but it was rather pointed that he praised her record but not her.

    Parent
    in AUGUST we'll come together? oy. (none / 0) (#28)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:09:50 PM EST


    Richardson (none / 0) (#30)
    by phillhrrll on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:09:56 PM EST
    sighs in relief

    LOL. (none / 0) (#40)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:12:42 PM EST


    Parent
    And at least a half dozen others..... (none / 0) (#66)
    by ineedalife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:19:09 PM EST
    he has probably allowed to think they have a chance.

    Parent
    She is a real team player (none / 0) (#35)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:11:21 PM EST
    Him, not so much.

    Here we go (none / 0) (#38)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:12:12 PM EST
    more Bittergate.

    ah jeez (none / 0) (#43)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:13:45 PM EST
    what is he talking about?

    their situation DID change when Bill was in the White House!

    that's what I was thinking too (none / 0) (#231)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:53:14 PM EST


    Parent
    WOW (none / 0) (#44)
    by americanincanada on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:13:59 PM EST
    We can look forward to even more mangled statements...great..like we have not had enough of that with Bush.

    not a good reply (none / 0) (#45)
    by Klio on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:14:01 PM EST
    to the bitter question

    yeesh

    I hope Hillary brings up the # of jobs in PA (none / 0) (#47)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:14:14 PM EST
    during the Clinton years.

    Mangled up : (none / 0) (#50)
    by phillhrrll on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:14:51 PM EST
    I will insult you again and expect a pass

    Are Obama's thumb and index fingers (none / 0) (#51)
    by Anne on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:14:54 PM EST
    Krazy-glued together?  I'm hating that gesture for some reason.

    It has bugged me for a long time (none / 0) (#61)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:17:26 PM EST


    Parent
    It's to keep from pointing (none / 0) (#105)
    by dianem on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:26:26 PM EST
    Pointing when you talk is rude, fists are angry looking, but if you're a "hand mover" you have to do something with your hands while you're talking... thus the thumb-index thing.

    Parent
    can't believe he is saying it again (none / 0) (#53)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:15:04 PM EST


    He still doesn't get it (none / 0) (#54)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:15:30 PM EST
    You can be making 2 million per year and have the same values of someone who has been out of work for 20 years.
    Oh now this is good...the respect angle. (none / 0) (#56)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:16:23 PM EST
    ...I didn't like her answer so much until that.

    How many more times (none / 0) (#57)
    by RalphB on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:16:25 PM EST
    is Obama going to jam that wingtip down his throat about BitterCling?  Just apologize and move on, jeez.

    Obama looks really, really angry. (none / 0) (#58)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:16:34 PM EST


    he's bitter (none / 0) (#63)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:17:55 PM EST


    Parent
    OMG (none / 0) (#69)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:19:32 PM EST
    why doesn't he just let it go!

    Parent
    because (none / 0) (#79)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:20:14 PM EST
    he always has to be right.

    Parent
    not loving george's first question (none / 0) (#59)
    by Klio on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:17:17 PM EST
    kinda shallow.  disappointing

    She slips in a dig (none / 0) (#72)
    by phillhrrll on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:19:35 PM EST
    regarding Florida all votes are important, I believe Obama is a wee bit insecure.

    Parent
    Ha Ha. And Kos people were complaining about Steph (none / 0) (#60)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:17:20 PM EST
    ...he drank the koolaid!

    Yes, he can win (none / 0) (#64)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:18:28 PM EST
    but she can do it better. Good for her!

    Good hit on McCain - (none / 0) (#65)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:18:33 PM EST
    he has the wrong ideas.  Hillary is very smooth tonight.  

    Ha ha...he can't let bittergate go. (none / 0) (#67)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:19:22 PM EST


    you call that a me too? (none / 0) (#68)
    by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:19:30 PM EST
    what did you expect him to say? No, she cant win?

    thats an unfair jab.

    Obama has done more (none / 0) (#71)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:19:33 PM EST
    than anyone else in reaching out to people of faith.

    And gun owners!

    No one has done more for gun owners.... (none / 0) (#73)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:19:41 PM EST


    He's Overreaching Again (none / 0) (#75)
    by cdalygo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:19:54 PM EST
    He has not done the MOST on anything

    Bashing Dems Again (none / 0) (#76)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:19:56 PM EST
    We're to blame for not reaching out to people of faith.
    Obama attacks first ?? (none / 0) (#80)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:20:15 PM EST


    Look at her eyes. I think he made her angry. (none / 0) (#82)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:21:06 PM EST


    Sure did (none / 0) (#89)
    by phillhrrll on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:22:54 PM EST
    She's much more assertive than him

    Parent
    Obama makes the claim again (none / 0) (#83)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:21:09 PM EST
    that he can transform politics. Good luck.

    Oh, now he's being a little nice to her (none / 0) (#84)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:21:14 PM EST
    but now he's preaching to her.

    Like he never indulges in political distractions!

    I thought the baking cookies thing (none / 0) (#94)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:24:00 PM EST
    was a little bit of a low blow.  

    Parent
    it really was (none / 0) (#141)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:32:24 PM EST
    he was being snotty again.

    Parent
    gawd (none / 0) (#85)
    by boredmpa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:21:27 PM EST
    "you take one statement and beat it to death."

    GAH, how about the memo calling Bill a racist because he wanted hillary by his side over mandela.

    Obama kinda clingy tonight - (none / 0) (#86)
    by Anne on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:21:43 PM EST
    cannot let go of this thing - and I'm beginning to think that Charlie Gibson should just not have gone there.

    He accuses her (none / 0) (#87)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:22:05 PM EST
    of right-wing tactics. That's pretty ironic.

    what is hillary looking at (none / 0) (#91)
    by badu on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:23:44 PM EST
    or who?

    Oh boy (none / 0) (#92)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:23:50 PM EST
    this is an absolute massacre of Obama tonight by Gibson.

    No issues to be discussed tonight, I guess!

    Gibson put's him in a bind (none / 0) (#93)
    by phillhrrll on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:23:54 PM EST
    then he lies

    BTD, I agree she is better in debates (none / 0) (#96)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:24:04 PM EST
    It's one of the ways she won me over to begin with. I want someone in office who can explain things clearly and concisely.

    Oh, he only saw Wright's remarks (none / 0) (#99)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:24:19 PM EST
    on YouTube.  Okay then!  I totally believe that!

    BTD, I agree it's rough on Obama so far. (none / 0) (#100)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:24:48 PM EST
    They will probably even it out though, as opposed to NBC.

    I think she knows it will come her way (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:27:25 PM EST


    Parent
    Yeah, I suspect that will happen (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:27:59 PM EST
    if it doesn't, this will have been an unfair debate.

    Parent
    Yeah (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:28:20 PM EST
    this is kind of sad.

    Parent
    I hope not, it's about time (none / 0) (#131)
    by RalphB on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:31:03 PM EST
    we got a taste of what if might be like in the fall.

    Parent
    He'd do best to shut up (none / 0) (#101)
    by phillhrrll on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:25:48 PM EST
    The rule of holes, "Connect" with who ?

    I agree it has been the anti-NBC debate so far (none / 0) (#103)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:26:08 PM EST
    But they got his two big things done early.

    Okay, now they're attacking (none / 0) (#106)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:26:58 PM EST
    Clinton over Wright.

    She gave a good answer though. (none / 0) (#108)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:27:28 PM EST


    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#121)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:29:32 PM EST
    but this is absolutely painful to watch.

    Could they be more horrible to him?

    Oh my God!

    I don't even like him and this is unfair!

    Parent

    Welcome to Clinton Land (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by BDB on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:31:56 PM EST
    And gird yourself for seven more months of it if he's the nominee.

    Parent
    Oh please, (none / 0) (#151)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:34:50 PM EST
    I've been saying this from the beginning.

    It's just shocking to see it directed at him, and to see how poorly he's handling it.

    I just don't think he can make it.

    Parent

    Obama (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:37:15 PM EST
    is finally climbing on "the media hates us" train.  Like the populism, it's a new phase.  As a Hillary supporter I'm unmmoved.

    Parent
    Sorry, Misread You (5.00 / 2) (#171)
    by BDB on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:39:27 PM EST
    Thought you were an Obama person.

    We will see how he will handle it.

    But it's a disgrace that either of them have to.  The answer to the problem of all the hateful, petty, untrue crap they throw onto Clinton is not to throw some onto Obama.  It's to stop throwing this crap at all.

    Parent

    Really? (none / 0) (#211)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:45:19 PM EST
    I find that strangely flattering ;)  

    Clinton should not have touched this Ayers thing.  Just when I thought the blogosphere would unite again in hatred of the media.  Woopz.  Clinton sort of makes up for it with a memorable knock on Bush.  But this is dirty laundry zone.

    Parent

    Not much substance to this debate (none / 0) (#111)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:27:56 PM EST
    they're just hammering the distractions, not focusing on issues.

    they're playing the electibility debate (none / 0) (#127)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:30:30 PM EST


    Parent
    this is true (none / 0) (#135)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:31:38 PM EST


    Parent
    Obama just isn't believable (none / 0) (#113)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:28:13 PM EST
    That he didn't know.
    Well, really, (none / 0) (#132)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:31:27 PM EST
    it's just a little weird.  I'm a man of faith, but I'm not in church often enough to know about these things.  

    It reminds me of the 11th hour debates before the Presidential Election when Democrats are pushed into defending their positions from wildly disparate well, positions.  I don't like it.

    Parent

    He doesn't realise (none / 0) (#140)
    by phillhrrll on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:32:15 PM EST
    how Wright comes across, he too dense to deserve my vote. I think he's lying regarding the rev

    Parent
    There is was (none / 0) (#120)
    by americanincanada on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:29:26 PM EST
    community organizer.

    "Seal Of Approval" (none / 0) (#143)
    by dianem on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:32:44 PM EST
    Ouch.  

    Ouch -- Be Careful Hillary (none / 0) (#144)
    by cdalygo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:32:54 PM EST
    Hillary should have defended Wright rather than go for juglar. And l love her. Just not a good move. Well maybe she saves her.

    On the other hand, he mimiced Bill dirty humping Monica. Look out

    Oh no way! (none / 0) (#162)
    by MarkL on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:38:01 PM EST
    Wright is electoral poison!

    Parent
    I don't think (none / 0) (#194)
    by phillhrrll on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:43:00 PM EST
    Obama is aware of the damage

    Parent
    Okay, now it's back to her. (none / 0) (#145)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:32:56 PM EST
    These guys are so predictable.

    Agree with BTD (none / 0) (#146)
    by boredmpa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:32:58 PM EST
    She should not have piled on. Cause it's going straight to bosnia now.

    Wright (none / 0) (#147)
    by waldenpond on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:33:06 PM EST
    did you watch the bar on Obama discussing Wright?  It went way down when he stepped back in on Wright.

    Disowned bar went down!

    Did they just offer Obama time?

    Clinton is getting an uptick on the Farrakan issue etc.

    Surprising to me. (none / 0) (#158)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:37:09 PM EST


    Parent
    Here we go with Bosnia (none / 0) (#148)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:33:29 PM EST
    I don't believe this guy was really a Clinton supporter if the Bosnia "lie" turned him off.

    Okay (none / 0) (#149)
    by kmblue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:33:32 PM EST
    we're back to normal!
    Everybody relax!
    Clinton, back in the crosshairs! ;)

    She apologized (none / 0) (#152)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:35:03 PM EST
    which is more than he's ever done.

    he's got that haughty look again (none / 0) (#153)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:35:33 PM EST


    Wow (none / 0) (#154)
    by s5 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:35:35 PM EST
    This is the worst television I've ever watched. This is truly the Idiocracy debate. VP choices? Bitter? Wright? Farrakhan? Bosnia? Are we going to get to an actual policy issue at any point?

    At least Hillary faced the public (none / 0) (#157)
    by Josey on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:36:59 PM EST
    and apologized on Bosnia.
    When Obama was exposed for lying about the Kennedys bringing his father to America - Axelrod merely said Obama had "erred."
    35 minutes on gaffes so far (none / 0) (#160)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:37:18 PM EST
    good for Obama for calling them on it.,

    Now Obama's rising above (none / 0) (#161)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:37:46 PM EST
    the petty BS - probably b/c they've been nailing him.

    Specific solutions? (none / 0) (#163)
    by Coldblue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:38:06 PM EST


    Not True - His Folks Have Slung Mud (none / 0) (#164)
    by cdalygo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:38:11 PM EST
    She needs to say something about it

    how does he get away with it? (none / 0) (#167)
    by Dawn Davenport on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:38:48 PM EST
    He's called on his campaign's sending out daily emails trashing Hillary, and he says we have to concern ourselves with issues instead?

    Flag question. Lord this is overboard. (none / 0) (#168)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:38:50 PM EST


    Almost like ABC is making Clintons (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by phillhrrll on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:40:57 PM EST
    argument to the SD's ...and I like her

    Parent
    BTD (none / 0) (#169)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:39:09 PM EST
    will you admit now that Obama is not a media darling?

    I'm delighted Obama is getting grilled (none / 0) (#170)
    by Klio on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:39:19 PM EST
    unfair though it might be

    But these 'man on the street' questions only highlight how lame tonight has been so far

    The flag thing is not "grilling" (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by dianem on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:41:09 PM EST
    It's a powderpuff question that he can only benefit from. He gets to spend 5 minutes talking about how patriotic he is.

    Parent
    Who reveres a flag? (none / 0) (#173)
    by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:39:47 PM EST
    haha you really need to meet some of my inlaws

    LOL Jeralyn.... (none / 0) (#175)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:40:35 PM EST
    Obama reveres the American flag.   Who reveres a flag? What a stupid answer.

    I agree.

    No one has done more than Obama (none / 0) (#198)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:43:33 PM EST
    for the American flag.

    Parent
    Make her stop (none / 0) (#176)
    by waldenpond on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:40:44 PM EST
    she got an uptick on embarrassed and then pfft. make her stop....

    I'll be interested to see an impartial meter.  This one is odd.  A certain someone keeps spiking where a certain someone keeps going down.  Someone is loving every word that comes out of a certain someone's mouth.

    Flag?  What a question?  Could I beat on my monitor now?  Never mind.... I revere the flag in a dull monitone voice spikes the meter.....

    These guys are dull.  I think they are tired.

    flag is a manufactured issue (none / 0) (#178)
    by Klio on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:41:08 PM EST
    but now he's insulted the lady who asked it!

    oi.

    BTD: Obama erred on the flag pin (none / 0) (#180)
    by MarkL on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:41:22 PM EST
    issue. Now he wears one, where earlier he gave a strong defense of not wearing one. It's a silly issue, but, just like Wright and bittergate, Obama doesn't know how to put it to bed.

    Ayrers. Good grief. Is the second half (none / 0) (#182)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:41:37 PM EST
    going to be about Monica?

    Only thing that keeps it from being as bad (none / 0) (#183)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:41:39 PM EST
    as the MSNBC debate is that there are not 6 other candidates to gang up on Obama like there were on Clinton.

    Look out Ayers! (none / 0) (#186)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:42:16 PM EST
    Here comes the bus!!!

    how many people (none / 0) (#204)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:44:32 PM EST
    can fit under that bus?

    Parent
    it's Ayers time! (none / 0) (#188)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:42:18 PM EST
    See, now he's getting annoyed at all the "distractions" but I didn't hear him complain when they were all aimed at Hillary.

    Reverence for the Flag (none / 0) (#189)
    by daryl herbert on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:42:19 PM EST
    TL wrote: "Who reveres a flag?  What a stupid answer."

    I have to disagree.  People are taught to pledge allegiance to the flag (not to our nation or to our Constitution).  It's a symbol of authority and a symbol of our nation.

    Many people feel very strongly when they see a flag being burnt in protest.  I for one was surprised at how I felt the first time I saw that.  I don't think it's a stupid answer.  He may not be telling the truth, but there are plenty of people who feel that way.

    OMG! (none / 0) (#191)
    by kmblue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:42:47 PM EST
    It's role reversal night!
    I'm a Clinton supporter, but I don't believe
    this stuff!

    Oh God -- Here Comes GE (none / 0) (#192)
    by cdalygo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:42:48 PM EST
    The Ayers Relationship

    You can't run away from it. He has more than neighbor relationship with him. They will hook him up for lying later on . . .

    Ayers = I wasn't there (none / 0) (#193)
    by Klio on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:42:52 PM EST
    and Coburn?  Please, I'm from Oklahoma and that's no relationship to brag about :-)

    Dude, it's not in your favor... (none / 0) (#196)
    by Dawn Davenport on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:43:22 PM EST
    ...that anti-choice Coburn is one of your buddies.

    Actually Yes (none / 0) (#197)
    by cdalygo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:43:22 PM EST
    You should apologize for Coburn's statements

    Jeralyn says (none / 0) (#201)
    by Josey on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:43:55 PM EST
    she hope doesn't change follow hope Obama's change train hope of change thought.
    LOL
    Wow (none / 0) (#202)
    by standingup on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:43:59 PM EST
    I had hopes that we might have better questions but they are making NBC and CNN look good.  I have to wonder if they might not even anger the Republicans by taking leading with the attacks they had in reserve for the general election.

    Oh boy (none / 0) (#203)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:44:15 PM EST
    She's jumping on Ayers too.

    They are doing her job tonight for sure.

    God one Hillary. (none / 0) (#205)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:44:39 PM EST


    Props to Hillary, lol!~ (none / 0) (#206)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:44:40 PM EST


    HA! (none / 0) (#207)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:44:47 PM EST
    HRC wants the Republicans to apologize and go away! LOL, that was good.

    OMG!!!! Are you telling me that (none / 0) (#208)
    by MarkL on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:44:50 PM EST
    Obama compared Coburn to a murderer????
    That will NOT go over well.

    Yeah, that was very strange to say the least (none / 0) (#220)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:48:53 PM EST


    Parent
    He should have just compared (5.00 / 1) (#229)
    by MarkL on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:52:57 PM EST
    Ayers to his grandmother.

    Parent
    pardons are the same how? (none / 0) (#212)
    by Klio on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:45:33 PM EST
    that's not a good counter-reply

    I almost don't blame Obama for that one. This (none / 0) (#213)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:45:56 PM EST
    isn't fair so far.

    it's not fair (5.00 / 1) (#221)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:49:09 PM EST
    but I don't feel sorry for him.  Hillary has been getting this cr*p all along. If he can't handle this, he's not a fit candidate in the GE.

    Parent
    wellllllll (5.00 / 1) (#228)
    by Klio on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:52:10 PM EST
    not comfortable, and per BTD not substantive, but in the end these are questions of judgment and that's a totally legitimate avenue to pursue actually.

    Especially since Obama runs on his vaunted judgment

    Parent

    What do you want -- more pilllows? (none / 0) (#230)
    by cymro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:53:01 PM EST
    I want to see Obama questioned unfairly -- it's what should have happened before, and will certainly happen if he's the nominee. We need it to happen during the primary, while we're still selecting the best equipped Democratic candidate for the GE.

    Parent
    Obama can take a punch? Really? (none / 0) (#214)
    by Anne on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:47:08 PM EST
    I think the punches haven't even started.

    I'm so relieved (none / 0) (#215)
    by waldenpond on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:47:22 PM EST
    That none of his associates are going to be relevant.

    Now Clinton is getting a spike. Spike on Repubs not running, spike on her baggage.

    The meter adores Obama.  Obama won the debate.

    Oh please (none / 0) (#219)
    by cdalygo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:48:19 PM EST
    You are deciding it on "undecided" voters spike. Come on -- both campaigns loaded that audience

    Parent
    Glass Jaw (none / 0) (#216)
    by cdalygo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:47:34 PM EST
    He can't take a punch. That's what his biggest problem is right now.

    She did show that he was (none / 0) (#217)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:47:45 PM EST
    underplaying his relationship with Ayers, for waht that's worth.  I just hate that whole non-issue.

    What a dumb debate (none / 0) (#222)
    by kayla on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:49:13 PM EST
    I think Obama's handling it well though.  Hillary's really relishing in this isnt she?

    They'll get her too, most likely. (none / 0) (#225)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:50:24 PM EST


    Parent
    BTD says Obama/Coburn (none / 0) (#223)
    by waldenpond on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:49:58 PM EST
    bad idea.... check out the meter.  Obama can't say anything wrong.  He says a couple of innocuous words and the meter goes up.  They liked Obama's come back.

    Clinton is on her game (none / 0) (#224)
    by IKE on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:50:21 PM EST
    The senator came prepare and ready to fight

    I don't know how it happened (none / 0) (#226)
    by magster on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:51:27 PM EST
    but my live feed shows the favorability responses of undecided voters, and Clinton was the only one who went into the negative territory for a sustained period when talking about Tuzla.  Obama's weakest moment was on Jeremiah Wright, but it wasn't as weak as Clinton and Tuzla.  Obama was almost off the chart when discussing the Weather Underground, and Clinton spiked when she said the Republicans should not be running anyone.

    If the undecideds attached to the monitors are the true judges, Obama wins, and they don't like Clinton attacking Obama.

    Now they are trying to pretend (none / 0) (#232)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:53:32 PM EST
    she's not ready to be CIC.

    50 minutes in (none / 0) (#233)
    by s5 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:54:43 PM EST
    and we finally get a real question! Not a great one, but at least it's about actual policy.

    This is really fascinating (none / 0) (#234)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:54:44 PM EST
    they will NEVER do this to McCain...and now I'm beginning to feel exactly how important the media will be.  Go BTD.

    Was that a sigh from Obama? (none / 0) (#235)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:56:53 PM EST
    looks condescending to me

    New blog thread guys (none / 0) (#236)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:58:12 PM EST


    Hillary Obama PA Debate: Live Blog (I) | 233 comments (233 topical)