Dem AZ Congresswoman Giffords and Others Shot Outside Safeway

Dem AZ Congresswoman Giffords and Others Shot Outside Safeway

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Other Politics
Posted on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 12:30:13 PM EST
Tags: Gabriella Giffords (all tags)

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Update 2:04 pm: Press Conference: University Hospital spokesman: Ten patients were brought in to the hospital, one, a 9 year old child, died. 5 are in critical condition, 5 are in surgery. The Congresswoman is in the recovery room, spokesman is optimistic about recovery. He says she is responding to commands. The bullet went through and through (right through her brain.) She's going into intensive care. She's under anesthesia still.

Update 1:44 pm MT(TL): 5 of the 11 people shot are confirmed dead. No word on Rep. Giffords' surgery outcome yet. A news conference is about to begin. Arizona's Chief U.S. District Court Judge John Roll was shot and killed. The shooter was born in 1988. His name is Jared Laughner and he is from Tuscon.

Update 1:15 pm MT(TL): MSNBC now reporting a federal judge was also shot.

Update(TL): Live streaming news at 12:36 pm MT: Congresswoman Giffords is in surgery at University Medical Center. 11 people were shot, 4 are dead, 7 are still alive.

Breaking - U.S. Representative Gabrielle Giffords, a Democrat from Arizona, was shot during a public forum in Arizona on Saturday. At least five other people were also shot. [More....]

The Tucson Citizen is reporting that Giffords was shot at "point blank range in the head."

More as it comes in.

Hospital spokewoman says Giffords is still in surgery.

< Newt Gringrich Switch: Now Supports Reducing Prison Population | Report: AZ Chief Federal Judge John Roll Killed in Tucson Shooting >

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Dem AZ Congresswoman Giffords and Others Shot Outside Safeway | 141 comments (141 topical)

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Gov. Brewer signed AZ law re (5.00 / 5) (#16)
by oculus on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:26:00 PM EST

no permit required to carry a concealed weapon; also no training or background check. link Yes, I know, guns don't kill people.

Yep (none / 0) (#18)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:27:42 PM EST

Parent

To prevent something like this (none / 0) (#23)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:30:23 PM EST

only a complete ban and seizure of existing weapons would likely be sufficient.

No political will for that.

Parent

How right you are (none / 0) (#60)
by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:09:27 PM EST

Without that law the dirt gag that murdered all those people would have not brought a firearm.

Parent

We are in no position to know (5.00 / 0) (#83)
by Peter G on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:51:21 PM EST

whether that is correct or not.

Parent

thanks, Peter (5.00 / 0) (#84)
by Jeralyn on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:54:00 PM EST

That comment was as poor in content as it was in its spelling.

Parent

Hmmm (5.00 / 2) (#86)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:57:51 PM EST

I know this is a gun rights site, but it seems inarguable to me that the no permit required for concealed weapons likely had an effect on this situation.

Parent

I am not as sanguine about "gun rights" (none / 0) (#114)
by Peter G on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:31:45 PM EST

as my friend TL by any means, but under any system of licensing and permitting, and given the last few years' Supreme Court decisions recognizing personal rights under the Second Amendment, lots of folks are going to qualify legally to possess handguns, at least, who can later prove highly dangerous when falling into acute mental illness, experiencing domestic or financial stress, intoxicated, or whipped into extreme political opinions.

Parent

Ithink the evidence is (none / 0) (#126)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 04:06:53 PM EST

to be gathered, but what we have seen so far makes me think qualifying for a permit may not have been so easy.

Parent

22-yr. old may not have any adult (none / 0) (#127)
by oculus on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 04:10:31 PM EST

criminal record to disqualify him. At least in CA, mental health bar is limited to court-ordered hospitalization (not voluntary), and that is for permit to own a firearm (not as to concealed weapon permit).

Parent

Per AP, two charges [one for possession (none / 0) (#134)
by oculus on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 04:57:05 PM EST

of drug paraphanalia (sp)], both resolved by successful completion of diversion.

Parent

: TL sidebar headline: Rep. Giffords' (none / 0) (#139)
by oculus on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 05:41:48 PM EST

owns firearms.

Parent

remember (5.00 / 1) (#42)
by bocajeff on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:43:55 PM EST

just like we don't tarnish an entire religion for the actions of their nut jobs,we don't do the same thing in this country. 1) we don't know anything about the killer, 2) we can assume we do know, but that it's not representative of the entire political spectrum he represents, 3)that Dems don't use this tragedy as a way of pushing through their agenda...as noted by some above like Clinton using McVeigh...

But wait...it fits out ideology...

I pray (for those who believe in the man in the sky) for her and her family. That's all I care about right now...the rest will be what it will be.

Hospital spokeswoman on phone/w CNN (5.00 / 0) (#50)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:56:39 PM EST

says Giffords is in surgery. To be honest, I don't believe her, but I hope she's right.

She can't report any fatalities (none / 0) (#52)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:58:02 PM EST

Parent

People in surgery (none / 0) (#53)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:59:03 PM EST

Giffords "in surgery for a gunshot wound to the head."

Parent

Pronouncement of death depends on (none / 0) (#56)
by oculus on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:59:43 PM EST

M.D. A case I tried involved a surfer drowning. The ER trauma physician was also a surfer. He worked on this young man for over an hour before pronouncing him dead, but, at deposition, the doctor stated the young man had no vital signs when he arrived at the ER or after that.

Parent

: I mentioned JFK upthread (none / 0) (#57)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:01:08 PM EST

They held off on declaring his death until someone could find a priest for last rites.
IN any case, I really very much hope I'm wrong.

Parent

She just voted for John Lewis for Speaker (none / 0) (#1)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 12:31:48 PM EST

John Lewis is my hero (5.00 / 1) (#116)
by Peter G on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:32:40 PM EST

in Congress.

Parent

: My hero in life (none / 0) (#119)
by gyrfalcon on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:36:45 PM EST

Parent

Add: this is shocking and appalling (none / 0) (#2)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 12:32:08 PM EST

Parent

Eyewitness on CNN says (none / 0) (#3)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 12:44:50 PM EST

that he saw at least two bodies on the ground. Giffords was supposedly moving when they took her away on a stretcher.

Pray (none / 0) (#4)
by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:01:31 PM EST

Pray she survives.

Second hand, NPR reporting she's dead (none / 0) (#5)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:06:36 PM EST

: Link (5.00 / 1) (#7)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:09:18 PM EST

here.

Parent

Awful. (none / 0) (#6)
by Towanda on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:07:49 PM EST

This.

And Arizona.

I'm stunned (none / 0) (#8)
by waldenpond on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:14:31 PM EST

My first reaction is to be angry at our media for pushing their bullsh#t and lies but really her poor family. This is just so sick.

Cautious CNN does not report (none / 0) (#9)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:17:26 PM EST

I wonder what NPR's source is?

: Sheriff's office (none / 0) (#10)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:18:57 PM EST

is what the report says.

Parent

Oh, this (none / 0) (#11)
by Ga6thDem on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:20:28 PM EST

is just too horrible for words.

CNN now reporting what NPR reported (none / 0) (#12)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:20:31 PM EST

Witness on site (none / 0) (#13)
by waldenpond on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:21:11 PM EST

MSNBC: witness Jason Pekau was on site is now heard on MSNBC... says a semi-automatic was used and there are at least 3 people covered with sheets not being treated. Photographs being taken.

Sheriff... being asked if there are 3 bodies.

: And we know (none / 0) (#46)
by BackFromOhio on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:47:24 PM EST

the average citizen must have the right to carry semi-automatic weapons.

Parent

CNN per NPR (none / 0) (#14)
by waldenpond on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:22:14 PM EST

Congresswoman and 6 others killed. Fox also reporting she has died.

CNN confirms independently (none / 0) (#15)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:23:01 PM EST

Terrible, but not surprising (none / 0) (#17)
by Dadler on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:27:10 PM EST

With as corrupt and dysfunctional (dying really) a nation as we have now, it is inevitable that some of those hundreds of millions of guns will come out and be used in such tragic and inexcusable fashion. Let's hope a larger percentage of them don't come out, but logic is telling me, unless we change course and soon, they will.

My condolences to all the victims and their loved ones.

According to (none / 0) (#19)
by shoephone on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:28:06 PM EST

WAPO report, she was one of ten congressional reps harassed after voting for the health care law. Her office windows had been shot out.

: According to (none / 0) (#35)
by Zorba on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:40:14 PM EST

the New York Times, besides the office incident:

At one such event in 2009, a protester was removed by police when his pistol fell on the supermarket floor.

Parent

This Murder is American Right-Wing Terrorism (none / 0) (#20)
by Dan the Man on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:28:18 PM EST

If Obama was smart, this could be his Timothy McVeigh moment where Clinton used the Oklahoma bombing terrorism to denounce the right. But since this is Obama, I can say with complete confidence that would never happen and instead he'll jump aboard the Post Partisan Unity Pony and say this act of political terrorism is a pox on both sides of the aisle. Also, he will never call out what this act of murder really is - American Right-Wing TERRORISM.

Perhaps we should wait for the facts. (5.00 / 3) (#21)
by oculus on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:29:28 PM EST

Parent

: I agree (5.00 / 0) (#48)
by Romberry on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:50:52 PM EST

People are jumping to conclusions before we know anything about the shooter or his motives.
People can surmise what they want, but seeking to place blame prior to having the facts is the wrong way to go. Maybe this was a right wing loon. Maybe it was just a nut. Maybe a disgruntled constituent. Right now, I just don't have any facts as to motive.

Parent

Her husband is an astronaut (none / 0) (#22)
by Towanda on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:30:21 PM EST

according to Wikipedia.

Politically, she was very Blue Dog. She called for immigration reform but only to include more border patrols and applauded Arizona's callout of National Guard to the border and similar actions.

And on other issues, she was 100% pro-choice.

Replaced Jim Kolbe (none / 0) (#24)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:31:17 PM EST

She was a decent fit for the district.

But that is a discussion for another day.

Parent

and said to be the only military spouse (none / 0) (#75)
by Towanda on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:25:50 PM EST

of a current member of Congress.

Parent

Of course in some states, (none / 0) (#85)
by brodie on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:57:00 PM EST

and with an added heightened political atmosphere of intolerance and hate, just having a "D" next to your name is enough, regardless of how blue dog you are.

But just going on initial instincts about initial reports, with a strong sense -- the congresswoman being shot "point blank in the head" (accd'g to early reports) -- that this one looks like a planned political hit by someone who didn't like her politics.

From the "nothing happens in politics by accident" school of skepticism ...

Parent

And her brother-in-law (none / 0) (#131)
by jbindc on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 04:48:24 PM EST

is aboard the International Space Station right now.

Talk about feeling helpless - obviously there's no way for him to get home to be with his brother (Gifford's husband)

Parent

: Saw that; so sad (none / 0) (#132)
by Towanda on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 04:54:57 PM EST

and her husband (the astronauts are twins) is due to go in space again in only a couple of months. NASA must be busy -- and there is a way to bring the brother-in-law home sooner, but let's hope that there is not even more of a need.
And Giffords and her husband have been married for only three years. May they celebrate many more anniversaries.

Parent

MSNBC reporting she is still alive (none / 0) (#25)
by Dadler on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:33:28 PM EST

Let's hope NBC is right for once (5.00 / 2) (#26)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:34:14 PM EST

Parent

Amen (none / 0) (#27)
by Dadler on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:35:05 PM EST

Parent

: Hard to fathom (none / 0) (#28)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:35:41 PM EST

when we have two orgs reporting otherwise.
Knock on wood.

Parent

MSNBC (none / 0) (#34)
by jbindc on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:39:18 PM EST

reproting she is dead.

Parent

: they have updated to say (none / 0) (#64)
by Jeralyn on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:14:21 PM EST

she is in surgery.

Parent

Hospital on line (none / 0) (#30)
by waldenpond on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:36:47 PM EST

She's currently in surgery.

Parent

Nine brought to her hospital (none / 0) (#33)
by waldenpond on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:38:16 PM EST

Darcy Slater? hospital spokes person.....4 dead at scene. Nine brought to her hospital. Most critical at this time.

Parent

Hospital spokewoman said that? (none / 0) (#70)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:20:13 PM EST

I've heard her 3 times and she did not say that anyone was dead the times I heard her.

Parent

: Out of surgery (none / 0) (#80)
by waldenpond on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:43:06 PM EST

A person that is a friend of the congressperson is at the hospital is heard on Fox now.... just said she is out of surgery and responding to commands.

Parent

CNN now says "conflicting reports" (none / 0) (#29)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:36:19 PM EST

NBC has Hospital Spokesman (none / 0) (#32)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:37:45 PM EST

saying she is in surgery.

Dunno if that is to try and inform family or what.

Parent

JFK was "in surgery" for an hour (none / 0) (#37)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:40:55 PM EST

after he was dead, supposedly.

UGH.

Parent

: That (5.00 / 1) (#40)
by Ga6thDem on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:42:39 PM EST

same thought came into my mind also. Anyway, I don't know why they would say that if it was already gone here but like BTD said, it might be because of her family.

Parent
: Well (5.00 / 1) (#41)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:42:53 PM EST

for the family's sake, they should be the first to know.

Parent

Hospital spokesperson confirms she is alive (none / 0) (#31)
by Dadler on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:37:15 PM EST

And that she is currently in surgery.

: I hope (none / 0) (#36)
by Ga6thDem on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:40:43 PM EST

they are right and the others are wrong.

Parent

still alive (none / 0) (#38)
by Jeralyn on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:41:05 PM EST

She is still alive at 12:40 pm MT and still in surgery.

You really do not know that (none / 0) (#39)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:42:01 PM EST

You have a report to that effect.

I hope it is true.

Parent

: CNN reporter (none / 0) (#45)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:45:19 PM EST

reconfirms that she is dead.
I think we can only report what is being reported to us.

Parent

Mike Brooks on CNN (none / 0) (#43)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:44:41 PM EST

says that "Federal law enforcement sources" confirm Giffords is dead. Also reports a 21 yr old male suspect.

21 ?? (none / 0) (#76)
by magster on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:27:19 PM EST

Doesn't fit my amateur profile. 21 seems awfully young to be jaded enough to commit an assassination.

Parent

: Way too little information (none / 0) (#77)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:27:58 PM EST

to say anything about him yet.

Parent

or maybe the Professor in Colorado was right (none / 0) (#44)
by bocajeff on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:44:44 PM EST

about Chickens coming home to roost...who knows? sick when it's something you care about...

I've made (none / 0) (#47)
by Ga6thDem on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:49:16 PM EST

the point to my conservative friends that conservatism has largely devolved into nothing more that terrorism. They scoffed at that but if this is a conservative mass murderer once again, they people that promote the rhetoric should be held responsible for the lies they tell.

I also thought quickly (5.00 / 2) (#94)
by brodie on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:07:35 PM EST

when I heard this story about all the RW political rhetoric, from office seekers for the GOP ferchrissakes, about "2d Amendment remedies" against Dems and the like, plus all the RW crazies taking guns and semi-automatic assault weapons to political rallies, including one involving Obama.

I also thought back then that the Dem response to this insanity was much too tepid, as if they were so taken aback by the brazenness and raw ugliness of the implications of such rhetoric and displays of firearms that they were too flummoxed to respond as they should.

Parent

: And that (4.00 / 1) (#99)
by Ga6thDem on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:12:00 PM EST

is one of the reasons I have been screaming from the rooftops for 2 years and slamming Obama's kumbaya with these people. Does he not recognize evil when he sees it? I really wonder sometimes. Maybe he should live in the south for a while. The GOP down here has been advocating all kinds of horrible things ever since Bill Clinton was elected in '92. Obama naivety about the 90's might be his downfall.

Parent

Current (none / 0) (#49)
by me only on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:52:45 PM EST

[2:43 p.m.] There were conflicting reports Saturday about the condition of U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords following a shooting Saturday at a Tucson, Arizona, grocery store. Giffords' press secretary said the congresswoman remains in surgery for her injuries, disputing an earlier report from a law enforcement source saying she had died.

[2:23 p.m.] U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords died Saturday after a gunman opened fire at a Tuscon, Arizona grocery store, a law enforcement source said. Giffords, who had been holding a meeting with constituents, was among at least 12 people shot.

[1:51 p.m.] U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was among at least 12 people shot at a
Tuscon, Arizona, grocery store, a Democratic source told CNN's Dana Bash. The
source called her injuries "pretty serious."

[1:41 p.m.] U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was meeting with constituents at a
Safeway grocery store in Tuscon, Arizona, where at least 12 people were injured in a shooting shortly after 10 a.m. MST Saturday, a spokesman for the Pima County sheriff's Department said.
It is unclear whether Giffords was among those hurt.

"Several" people were shot Saturday at a grocery store in Tucson,
Arizona, a spokesman for the Pima County Sheriff's Department said. No other
details were immediately available.

The Hospital spokesman (none / 0) (#51)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:57:42 PM EST

"can only report that people are in serious or critical condition."

Hopesfully it stays that way.

Arizona Republic Live Blog (none / 0) (#54)
by me only on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:59:14 PM EST

link

the sheriff's are saying she is still in surgery (none / 0) (#55)
by Jeralyn on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 01:59:31 PM EST

and four people (not her) have been confirmed dead. I'm watching the live stream from the local arizona station, I provided the link in the update.

The hospital spokesman (none / 0) (#58)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:02:07 PM EST

could not confirm ANY dead.

Clearly the info is sketchy at this point.

Parent

Indeed (none / 0) (#59)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:06:23 PM EST

My gut tells me that NPR wouldn't have reported as it did without having a pretty good reason to.

Parent

a news conference is set in (none / 0) (#61)
by Jeralyn on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:11:29 PM EST

20 minutes at 1:30 MT. One of her aides is confirmed dead.

Parent

Not by the hospital (none / 0) (#62)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:13:18 PM EST

Hoping for the best.

Parent

NBC reporting fed judge was (none / 0) (#63)
by nycstray on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:14:06 PM EST

also shot.

Parent

Whaat? (none / 0) (#65)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:16:08 PM EST

In the same incident?

Incredible.

Got a link for Jeralyn?

Parent

I saw it on CNN too (none / 0) (#66)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:16:42 PM EST

But I didn't see any details.

Parent

: If you see link (none / 0) (#67)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:17:46 PM EST

please provide it.

Parent
: Ditto. (none / 0) (#68)
by Towanda on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:17:55 PM EST

Parent
: I saw the chyron (none / 0) (#71)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:20:45 PM EST

Parent

it's on msnbc (none / 0) (#73)
by nycstray on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:21:27 PM EST

on the breaking bar at the bottom of the tv screen

Parent

CNN chyron says (none / 0) (#69)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:20:07 PM EST

"Federal judge among 11 others wounded"

Saw it (none / 0) (#72)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:21:03 PM EST

Parent

: And the link requested (none / 0) (#74)
by Towanda on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:24:09 PM EST

is here. Federal judge also from Arizona, and the (unnamed but official) source:
A federal judge from Arizona was among the 11 others shot in the incident, a law enforcement source told CNN.

Parent

Police official on CNN says 18 shot, 6 dead (none / 0) (#78)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:34:44 PM EST

Giffords "gravely wounded."

: This is all over the place (none / 0) (#79)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:38:08 PM EST

Parent

MSNBC.com reports that John M. Roll, (none / 0) (#81)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:43:20 PM EST

Federal Judge, was shot and killed.

: Awful (5.00 / 1) (#82)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:45:48 PM EST

Parent

AP has a name (none / 0) (#87)
by waldenpond on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 02:58:13 PM EST

Fox only confirms that it is a 22 year old white male and is not releasing the AP name until they confirm.

: msnbc released a name (none / 0) (#88)
by nycstray on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:01:16 PM EST

including the spelling

Parent
: MSNBC releases name (none / 0) (#89)
by waldenpond on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:01:18 PM EST

Gerald Laughler (?)

Parent

Surgeon says she is in critical condition (none / 0) (#90)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:02:03 PM EST

person who died at hospital a (none / 0) (#91)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:02:19 PM EST

young child.

Surgen says bullet went through brain (none / 0) (#92)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:02:53 PM EST

That's (none / 0) (#95)
by Ga6thDem on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:08:21 PM EST

what I figured from the reports. I don't know how someone survives that kind of shot.

Parent

Me either, and yet. . . (none / 0) (#96)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:08:55 PM EST

Parent

I know. (none / 0) (#101)
by Ga6thDem on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:15:35 PM EST

There is a chance that she can come through.

Parent

I'm hoping (w/o (none / 0) (#103)
by brodie on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:22:02 PM EST

any expertise in this area) that a "through and through" gunshot wound to the head, even if it passes through the brain, means it's more likely to be survivable than one which ricochets around inside the head and causes massive damage.

Parent

Probably depends on which part of (none / 0) (#106)
by oculus on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:24:31 PM EST

the brain is effected as to, if she survives, what her condition will be, both as to physical and mental capabilities.

Parent

Yes, that can be true (none / 0) (#109)
by Towanda on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:27:02 PM EST

as I learned from experience of a friend who was shot. But which part of the brain matters. Loss of vocabulary? Relearnable, to an extent. Loss of memory? Relearnable, replaceable, if not much lost. Loss of . . . well, we will have to see.

Parent

: A man injured here (traffic collision) (none / 0) (#113)
by oculus on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:28:51 PM EST

lost his short term memory. He thought he was living in the Philippines, which he had about 20 years ago.

Parent

Survives (none / 0) (#112)
by gyrfalcon on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:28:42 PM EST

doesn't necessarily mean survives with all functions intact.

But Sanjay Gupta on CNN points out that it may have been at the edge of the head and not done much more than graze the brain itself. We'll have to wait to hear details, obviously.

Parent

: Right. I believe (none / 0) (#117)
by brodie on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:36:37 PM EST

the language used by the hospital spokesman a few minutes ago was a bullet wound in the "side" of the head, through and through wound that passed thru the brain..
And very good news that he's "optimistic about recovery".

Parent

young child died at hospital per (none / 0) (#93)
by nycstray on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:03:13 PM EST

Dr doing news conf at hospital

9 yrs. old per news reports. (none / 0) (#98)
by oculus on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:10:57 PM EST

Parent

No, 9 *months* according (none / 0) (#120)
by gyrfalcon on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:40:07 PM EST

to hospital chief surgeon at news conference.

Parent

Hmmmm (none / 0) (#125)
by jbindc on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 04:03:27 PM EST

Dr. Peter Rhee, the surgeon, is being quoted as saying the girl was 9 years old.

Someone is confused.

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: Yup (none / 0) (#128)
by gyrfalcon on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 04:27:35 PM EST

Everybody is reporting 9 years, but the surgeon guy in scrubs who gave the presser clearly said 9 months. Perhaps he misspoke and got some hospital press person to send out a correction via Twitter or something. But he did say 9 months.

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Here is hoping (none / 0) (#97)
by smott on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:10:23 PM EST

That regardless of what inspired the shooter, this ends Palin's career as surely as it has ended the lives of these innocents...

http://www.americablog.com/2011/01/did-palin-crosshairs-ad-get.html

I thought (none / 0) (#100)
by Ga6thDem on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:15:01 PM EST

she had put up a literal target. That ad really isn't as bad as it was described as being.

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I guess we can debate (none / 0) (#102)
by smott on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:18:08 PM EST

How bad the ad actuall was...But there's no doubt eliminationist rhetoric coming from the right these past few years helps to set this in motion.

Dave Neiwert has written some excellent stuff on it....

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Any ad showing crosshairs (5.00 / 1) (#108)
by brodie on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:26:18 PM EST

and using rhetoric like "it's time we take a stand", is bad enough, and clear enough in meaning for me.

But will big fish like Palin, or any other GOP officeholder or seeker, be called out by name by Dems or the MSM?

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: Ms.Palin has issued a statement. (none / 0) (#110)
by oculus on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:27:11 PM EST

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Oh, (none / 0) (#111)
by Ga6thDem on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:28:20 PM EST

yes, I completely agree about the rhetoric coming from conservatives. It is terrible and they need to held to account for it.

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Assumption may be wrong (none / 0) (#115)
by waldenpond on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:32:39 PM EST

This is based on the assumption that a right winger attacked a Dem..... but this was a conservative Dem and it is also possible that, if this was a political attack, it could be a left-winger attacking someone for being too conservative.

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: Yes, these assumptions (none / 0) (#118)
by Towanda on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:36:39 PM EST

reminded me of the early rumors after the Oklahoma City incident -- that the bombing was by foreigners, Muslims, etc., etc.
That said, early indications are that the person in custody now has right-wing inclinations. However, emphasis again is on "early." And on "person in custody" rather than shooter, because with so many killed and injured, I am curious as to whether there may have been what military call "friendly fire" victims.

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Conflicting descriptions of the alleged (none / 0) (#104)
by oculus on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:22:47 PM EST

gunman: link

J (none / 0) (#105)
by CoralGables on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:23:10 PM EST

I could have misheard but believe the doctor said a nine month old child died, not 9 year old child.

You have it right (none / 0) (#121)
by gyrfalcon on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:41:17 PM EST

That's what he said, clear as a bell.

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President just said 9 yrs. . . (none / 0) (#122)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:47:17 PM EST

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Which one do you think (none / 0) (#129)
by gyrfalcon on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 04:29:31 PM EST

probably has better info, hmmm? :-)

It's possible the surgeon misspoke and the hospital quickly sent out a correction. But that is what he said. They just replayed a clip, so my memory isn't at fault, at least.

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: Sounds like the surgeon (none / 0) (#130)
by jbindc on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 04:42:09 PM EST

misspoke.

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How sad (none / 0) (#123)
by Ga6thDem on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:47:54 PM EST

and awful. I guess we'll get all the grisly details over the next few days.

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I heard 9 year old child (none / 0) (#141)
by DFLer on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 07:35:03 PM EST

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Surgeon (none / 0) (#107)
by jbindc on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:25:18 PM EST

is 'optimistic' for Giffords' survival per MSNBC.

Obama slips and says (none / 0) (#124)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 03:48:11 PM EST

that Gabby "was a friend of mine."

The Governor of Arizona kept (none / 0) (#133)
by Militarytracy on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 04:55:24 PM EST

referring to her in past tense too. I feel pretty frustrated with all the instant newsy gratification talk about how she will likely recover. I want someone to define that "recover" for me right now. I know that miracles happen, that people have suffered some pretty extreme happenings to their brain and made some dramatic recoveries....those are miracles though. A bullet entered one side of her skull and exited the other, and I'm fairly certain that life as she has known it up to this point is going to be dramatically and forever altered for her and all who know her and love her. Just because you didn't die doesn't mean that certain aspects and awarenesses of your life didn't.

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It sounds like nobody knows for sure (none / 0) (#135)
by andgarden on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 04:59:44 PM EST

because she's still sedated.

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: But she responded to prompts (none / 0) (#137)
by Towanda on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 05:03:08 PM EST

according to the hospital report. So that must have been in surgery (a lot of brain surgery actually is conducted while patients are awake, as sometimes they need to be able to respond to assist surgeons in knowing parts of the brain affected).

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She shifted tenses (none / 0) (#136)
by Towanda on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 05:01:15 PM EST

correctly, actually, for the most part. When Brewer was speaking of their years in the legislature, she used the past tense. But she also used the present tense, at one point correcting herself to do so, about more recent events and the present. That bespeaks more poise under stress than I had expected of Brewer, based on disastrous clips from the campaign.

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My father suffered a horrible (none / 0) (#138)
by Militarytracy on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 05:12:11 PM EST

brain injury. But immediately afterward, when he was in the emergency room and the doctors were certain that he would die, he requested to speak to his children and they allowed him to call us. I was the oldest so I was the one who spoke to him, other than thinking he was at the nextdoor neighbors though he seemed perfectly normal. After surgery...brain swelling...coming out of an induced coma...the real challenges surfaced and he was no longer as cognizant as he had been immediately after having his skull fractured pretty severely.

They are better able to control brain swelling now, I know that is important in being able to contain the developing damage.

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: Oh, honey... (none / 0) (#140)
by sj on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 07:12:29 PM EST

I'm sorry to hear this. I know it wasn't recent, but that kind of trauma never really leaves you, I think

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Dem AZ Congresswoman Giffords and Others Shot Outside Safeway | 141 comments (141 topical)

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