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NY Times: Obama and Repubs Close to Agreement on Budget Cuts

By Jeralyn, Section Other Politics
Posted on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:05:36 PM EST
Tags: budget, debt ceiling (all tags)
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The New York Times says President Obama and John Boehner are close to striking a deal on spending cuts and taxes. Democrats are reportedly very angry. According to the Times, it involves:

$3 trillion in savings that would be obtained through substantial spending cuts and future revenues produced through an overhaul of the tax code.

Fearful of leaks that stalled prior talks, both sides are clamming up. What that tells me: Someone's going to get thrown under the bus. [More...]

Among both lawmakers and interest groups with influence over them, many Republicans oppose abandoning the party’s no-compromise stand against any new taxes and many Democrats fear a “grand bargain” will undercut their party’s ability in the 2012 campaigns to use Republicans’ support of deep cuts in Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security against them.

The White House denies a deal is that close. But it sounds like Obama is using the "Gang of Six" bill as a starting point and is willing to make further concessions:

[T]he president summoned leaders of both parties to build on Tuesday’s release of the $3.7 trillion deficit-cutting plan by the Senate’s Gang of Six.

This is far from my field so I won't provide any analysis. Here's a poll instead:

< John Edwards Ordered to Return $2.6 Mil in Matching Campaign Funds | Securities Fraud Conviction in New York >

Poll

Who Will a Budget Deal Hurt the Most?
♦ Senior Citizens 19%
♦ Education 2%
♦ The Poor 41%
♦ The Middle Class 27%
♦ Other 8%

Votes: 36
Results | Other Polls

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    NY Times: Obama and Repubs Close to Agreement on Budget Cuts | 131 comments (131 topical)

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    We are doomed. (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Tony on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:13:32 PM EST
    As Atrios would say.

    Obama may stick it to (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by observed on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:18:02 PM EST
    Black people, because he has that demographic locked up.
    it's more accurate (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:48:02 PM EST
    & far more productive, imo, to think of this in terms of class

    Obama is shafting poor & working class people of all races/subcultures/ages

    & so he's probably shafting more white people than black people, in raw numbers

    Parent

    Please predict the downside for a person who (5.00 / 11) (#35)
    by oculus on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 07:09:51 PM EST
    who wished the iPhone5 was available yesterday.  

    Parent
    They could start charging ... (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Yman on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:13:58 PM EST
    ... for the Obama Apology app?

    Increased demand and all ...

    Parent

    Hands=down best line (none / 0) (#89)
    by Towanda on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 10:26:26 PM EST
    in a long time.

    Parent
    We're cool (1.40 / 10) (#8)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:45:31 PM EST
    But thanks for looking out for us Oh Wise White Man That Knows Better Than Us About Ourselves.

    Parent
    doenrated for (5.00 / 4) (#9)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:53:55 PM EST
    ad-hominem.

    Parent
    who made you (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by observed on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:23:36 PM EST
    Jesse Jackson. You speak for yourself.

    Parent
    how do you know observed is white? (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:32:48 PM EST
    for that matter, . . .

    Parent
    And (5.00 / 4) (#27)
    by lentinel on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:43:11 PM EST
    how do we know that the angry black guy is black?

    Parent
    because on the internet (none / 0) (#31)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:54:28 PM EST
    nobody knows you're an Angry Bird

    Parent
    by definition (none / 0) (#33)
    by ding7777 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 07:01:13 PM EST
    us: Used by a speaker to refer to himself or herself and one or more other people as the object of a verb or preposition

    Parent
    OK (none / 0) (#52)
    by lentinel on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:11:48 PM EST
    You take the "us" at face value.
    I don't.

    I think it's a manipulative moniker.

    I don't take the "guy" part at face value either.

    Parent

    def. there was (none / 0) (#62)
    by observed on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:20:45 PM EST
    A really nutso OBFer who came on here with several similar names, like blackphillyhousewife. At least we can be pretty sure this guy is not IBS!


    Parent
    yeahhhh (none / 0) (#104)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 11:43:52 PM EST
    not a great, accurate, or sensitive comment really.

    Parent
    We will see. (none / 0) (#125)
    by observed on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 12:02:42 PM EST


    Parent
    watch out (5.00 / 13) (#3)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:18:02 PM EST
    Democrats are reportedly very angry.

    sternly worded letter, incoming

    Can I vote for (5.00 / 15) (#4)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:24:45 PM EST
    "All of the above" on the poll?  Because all of those mentioned are going to get royally scr*wed.

    Agree with Zorba. (5.00 / 8) (#5)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:31:48 PM EST
    All of the above.

    Parent
    That is my choice also (5.00 / 4) (#15)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:18:42 PM EST
    "All of the above" on the poll?  Because all of those mentioned are going to get royally scr*wed.



    Parent
    Seniors vote (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by NYShooter on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:27:53 PM EST
    the poor are the most defenseless so who else would our "Community Organizer" feel safe in crushing?

    Parent
    Since all of the above was not an (5.00 / 4) (#22)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:33:37 PM EST
    option, I did vote for the poor. The poor in all ages groups will be hurt the most and this demographic is only IMO going to get larger by adopting these cuts.  

    Parent
    Larger (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by cal1942 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:30:12 PM EST
    without a doubt.

    Many, many of us will become

    The nouveau poor.


    Parent

    he will give them the (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by observed on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:36:08 PM EST
    Rezko treatment


    Parent
    Or Bill Ayres (none / 0) (#36)
    by oculus on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 07:10:50 PM EST


    Parent
    I hate to scold, but the poor need to start voting (none / 0) (#54)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:12:53 PM EST
    in much higher numbers. I know all about the obstacles, and they get worse every time the GOP passes a faux voter fraud bill, but something has to be done to rectify that situation.

    Of course it may fix itself as the seniors and the poor merge into one group.

    Parent

    unfortunately, the poor (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:26:58 PM EST
    often find themselves purged from the rolls

    if they can even get to the polling place

    Parent

    Not just seniors (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by cal1942 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:31:10 PM EST
    and poor.  These cuts will create many newly poor.

    Parent
    "I hate to scold," (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by NYShooter on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 10:02:46 PM EST
    then please don't.

    Pray you'll never experience abject poverty, but if you could, for a moment only, you'd realize how insensitive, and uneducated that remark is.

    Living without many of the necessities of life, with malnourishment & poor health, constants, the most painful insults to one's being is the dreadful depression hanging like a yoke, engulfing ones soul. Simply existing, from one hour to the next is a feat of heroic proportion for those poor brothers and sisters of ours.

    If ever, "walk a mile in one's shoes," was appropriat, now is that time.

    Parent

    The poor in underdeveloped countries (none / 0) (#100)
    by Politalkix on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 10:54:39 PM EST
    who are poorer than the poor in America and face even more challenges in life, vote in higher proportions than their counterparts in America. There is really no excuse for not voting.

    Parent
    why, that's just brilliant (none / 0) (#108)
    by NYShooter on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 01:11:02 AM EST
    have you considered a position with Mensa?

    Parent
    Sady then, their conditions will apparently never (none / 0) (#118)
    by ruffian on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 09:01:15 AM EST
    improve. Their advocates do not have the sheer numbers at the polls to counter the people who do not care.

    Parent
    Not everyone living under the poverty line is (none / 0) (#119)
    by ruffian on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 09:11:13 AM EST
    in such dire straits. Many are holding down some kind of job and could also make it to the polls if they were convinced it were in their interest. I think seeing what is going on now should convince them that voting does indeed matter.

    In our system today you only have influence if you have a lot of money or a lot of numbers. The rich have money, and they use it. Seniors have a lot of numbers, and they use them. The only way to improve conditions for the poor is to use their voting numbers.

    Which is exactly why the GOP works so hard to shut them down.

    Parent

    Big money is thrumping (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 09:24:30 AM EST
    big numbers even as we type.

    Wall St. wants SS and Medicare weakened to the point that they will be easily dismantled a few years down the road. This will be done regardless of the fact that seniors have the numbers and use them.

    Many of the working poor stood in line for hours on end to vote in 2008. They voted for the guy whose policies will cause them additional financial pain and will force many million more into the ranks of the underemployed and the those living in poverty.

    Parent

    In Many such (none / 0) (#133)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 09:34:01 PM EST
    jobs, the managers of places, such as many meat-packing, chicken, and catfish processing plants, make it impossible to get to the polls.

    That's why poll watchers and attorneys have found Voting Rights Acts infractions in places such as Sunflower, Mississippi, among other places.

    Parent

    I voted other (5.00 / 5) (#48)
    by cal1942 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:04:36 PM EST
    as a stand-in for all of the above.

    Everyone is truly screwed.  Social Security cuts won't affect young people directly if they die before eligibility.

    But even before eligibility younger people could pay the price if older people in their family become destitute.  Diminished demand caused by  Social Security cuts will decrease employment prospects.

    The trouble with the poll is that it separates people into individual groups.  So my question is:

    When do we begin to think as a community again?

    Parent

    I figured "all of the above" (none / 0) (#34)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 07:07:43 PM EST
    was a given as to who would be hurt, so I didn't include that option and asked instead, who it will hurt the most.

    Parent
    Who will not be hurt? And, (5.00 / 0) (#37)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 07:15:42 PM EST
    who will gain?  All at the expense of 'all of the above' or the sub-sets specified, is my worry.

    Parent
    Ultimately (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by cal1942 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:21:13 PM EST
    everyone is hurt.  There is no most hurt.  Think as a community.

    Parent
    pretty simple, IMO (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by CST on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:43:10 PM EST
    If democrats are angry about it, than they shouldn't vote for it.  This still has to pass the senate.

    USE YOUR LEVERAGE OR LOSE IT.

    Exactly. If they are so angry (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:02:38 PM EST
    Durbin or Warner could have walked out of the talks. I'm sure they will write a letter demanding an apology instead.

    Parent
    Warner has long been a fake Democrat (5.00 / 3) (#51)
    by shoephone on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:11:38 PM EST


    Parent
    Yup (none / 0) (#99)
    by cal1942 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 10:54:16 PM EST
    It's that big tent thing dontcha know.

    Parent
    Warner is sending out e-mails (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 09:41:45 PM EST
    to Democratic list trying to gin up support for the Gang of 6 proposals. Of course, no where does he give any details on the cuts that are included in their plan.

    I hope to change that. For several months now, I've worked with a bipartisan group of Senators, three Republicans and three Democrats, devising a plan to cut our debt by nearly $4 trillion over the next decade through a combination of spending cuts and tax and entitlement reforms.

    I'm now asking for your help to turn our Gang of Six into something much larger: a grand coalition of like-minded Democrats, Independents, and Republicans with the political will to break the gridlock in Washington and fix our debt problem. It's going to require a lot of work to pass this proposal through both Houses of Congress, and in
    order to swing enough votes I need your help to apply some public pressure.

    Will you click on this link and add your name in support of our bipartisan debt reduction proposal? link

    Shame there isn't an option for not supporting Warner or any other Dem if this passes. Oh well, the calls go out again tomorrow to tell my Dem Congresscritters that I will work to defeat them if these cuts to the safety net programs occur.

    Parent

    Dems in Congress (none / 0) (#103)
    by Politalkix on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 11:21:52 PM EST
    can always vote against any deal that the President makes if they do not like it. It is really that simple.

    Parent
    True, but then again ... (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by Yman on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 12:10:51 PM EST
    ... Dems in Congress shouldn't be put in that position by a President in their own party.

    Parent
    True for individual voters, too (none / 0) (#123)
    by sj on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 11:21:12 AM EST
    USE YOUR LEVERAGE OR LOSE IT.


    Parent
    If you believe some commenters here (none / 0) (#124)
    by Politalkix on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 11:59:26 AM EST
    "the left" already used their "leverage" in 2010. Their leverage got us Scott Brown, Scott Walker, Rick Snyder, Rick Scott and others. Use this "leverage" again in 2012. Get Perry/Romney along with Brown, Walker,Snyder,Scott and others. If only we had a Darwin to chronicle political evolution in America!

    Parent
    If you believe other commenters ... (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by Yman on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 12:07:52 PM EST
    ... it was lousy leadership and a never-ending trail of broken promises that "got us Scott Brown, Scott Walker, Rick Snyder, Rick Scott and others."

    Parent
    Democrats are so angry (5.00 / 5) (#10)
    by BDB on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:54:35 PM EST
    They're going to provide enough votes to make sure whatever deal Obama agrees to passes.  And then they'll try to blame it all on the GOP (when, of course, Obama has been essentially demanding these cuts all along and they knew they would always support whatever Obama did).

    I do wonder whether there is anything Obama can do that would lose him the support of "progressives" either in the House or among the voters.  By insisting on these large cuts, he is literally killing probably thousands of Americans.  Yet, at most he gets a stern talking to, usually accompanied by a promise to vote for him next November (the "progressives" and partisan Ds can't even be bothered to pretend they aren't going to vote for him to try to pressure him).  

    Abused spouse syndrome (5.00 / 5) (#11)
    by BTAL on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:00:38 PM EST
    "But I know he still loves me".

    Parent
    Remember Lorena Bobbitt? (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:03:12 PM EST
     'Nuff said.

    Parent
    Oooooh! (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:15:25 PM EST
    Nasty, but apropos to a certain extent (at least, I hope).

    Parent
    That's the box (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by cal1942 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 10:06:22 PM EST
    Obama has placed some Democrats in.

    It will be either vote for this or watch the economy blow-up and it will be YOUR fault.

    Despicable.

    Parent

    Check Out "I love the way you lie" by (none / 0) (#40)
    by seabos84 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 07:22:03 PM EST
    eminem and rihanna.

    to help understand the song a bit better it helps to know a bit about the lives of eminem and rihanna - how the 2 of them are whack-d-doodles.

    HOWEVER, if you any 1 step removed experience with whack-a-doodle relationship behavior (work in a high school, for example!) the song makes sense -

    the lyrics are something else.

    any-hoo --- last summer's #1 hit for many weeks, with a 360 MILLION views on youtube,

    http://youtu.be/uelHwf8o7_U

    really captures how freaking pathetic the excuse makers are.

    I never thought this song would pop into my head when I heard of the latest full of awe crap-tastic excuses for another cave from 0bummer.

    rmm.


    Parent

    I don't think he is trying (none / 0) (#56)
    by Madeline on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:14:40 PM EST
    to win over progressives.  He may be after  moderate Republicans (those who are apalled by TParty antics) and Independents. Add that to African American votes and what's left of adulating supporters and of course Wall Street, then he may feel confident.

    My opinion

    Parent

    You sound like a Republican acquaintance of mine (none / 0) (#72)
    by christinep on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 09:10:10 PM EST


    Parent
    Really? (5.00 / 3) (#77)
    by Yman on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 09:22:26 PM EST
    You have a Republican friend who's upset that Obama that Obama wants to make cuts in social program spending and is alienating progressives?

    Wow.

    He/she has got to be in a very small, minority.

    Parent

    No, he is a professional Repub (none / 0) (#82)
    by christinep on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 09:46:34 PM EST
    ...adept as using wedge issues, insinuations, & hype.

    Parent
    Well, I just hope you haven't (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by Anne on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 10:11:52 PM EST
    been paying him to teach you what he knows...

    Parent
    Always on, always on. (none / 0) (#88)
    by christinep on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 10:22:48 PM EST
    I thought that he had been tutoring you:)

    Parent
    So you think BDB is ... (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by Yman on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 10:31:06 PM EST
    ... a Republican troll?  Not many of those on TL, particularly when it's not campaign season, and you can usually tell by looking at their comment history.

    Much more likely he/she is just a frustrated Democrat or progressive.  There's a lot of those at TL.

    Parent

    BDB was a regular commenter on TL (5.00 / 2) (#114)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 04:55:29 AM EST
    a few years back. Not only is she/he not a troll, but one of the better writers for liberal positions. She/he is not the one who has the dishonest Republican  debating techniques down pat.  

    Parent
    Are you an Obama (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by cal1942 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 10:40:48 PM EST
    operative.

    Sure sounds like it.

    Parent

    Christine, you are trying way too hard to (5.00 / 8) (#79)
    by Anne on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 09:38:47 PM EST
    put those who oppose these New Democratic plans and ideas into a box labeled "Republican," I guess in the hope that they will be insulted, but the reason you're not getting the reaction you want is simple: we know the people you should be passive-aggressively baiting and sneering at are the New Democrats who are pushing Republican ideas.

    Cutting the safety net is not a Democratic idea - it shouldn't even be on the Democratic radar, not even as some sort of backwards-world bargaining chip.  Democrats - Obama - should be standing as a bulwark against these kinds of cuts.  Democrats - Obama - should be reciting chapter and verse on why spending cuts in a recession are the very definition of insanity.  Obama should not have convened a commission to study something - the deficit "crisis" - that a structured, focused, targeted spending and jobs program could have eliminated altogether.

    But telling the truth about deficits would undercut the real agenda - the one that, if you didn't know was coming out of the Democratic WH and supported by a number of Democrats, you would instantly recognize as being right out of a Republican playbook/platform.

    Doctors have a saying, "when you hear hoofbeats, don't expect to see a zebra;" you're seeing zebras, christine, and what we have here are horses.

    Parent

    Oh, Anne, there you again (5.00 / 3) (#92)
    by Towanda on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 10:33:07 PM EST
    with those "wedge issues, insinuation, and hype"!

    Wedge issues like, y'know, jobs.

    Parent

    See response to sj above (none / 0) (#83)
    by christinep on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 09:47:10 PM EST


    Parent
    What response to me? (none / 0) (#121)
    by sj on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 11:11:32 AM EST
    This is my first comment on the thread.

    Parent
    Whoops...I mean yman. Thanks for the note. (none / 0) (#130)
    by christinep on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 02:49:12 PM EST


    Parent
    Jeralyn (5.00 / 6) (#14)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:18:40 PM EST
    maybe it's time to get serious with your pink slip for Obama?

    This should make everyone feel warm and fuzy (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:24:46 PM EST
    Coburn Returned to Gang of Six After Agreement on Health Care Cuts

    A central figure in the Senate's "Gang of Six" on Wednesday described what he called "ferocious" negotiations over additional cuts to Medicare and Medicaid that were needed to woo back Sen. Tom Coburn, the Oklahoma Republican whose return to the group helped cinch a plan to slash federal spending.

    Sen. Mark Warner, a charter member of the bipartisan group, said lawmakers from both sides of the political spectrum had to show some give before they released their deficit reduction blueprint on Tuesday.

    "I understood Sen. Coburn," the Virginia Democrat said. "He wanted even more reductions in certain entitlement programs. He wanted specific policy adjustments that [Sen. Dick Durbin] and others did not."

    Coburn's return to the group provided the necessary ballast needed to sway both Democrats and Republicans. But it came at a cost. The group's Democrats had to concede an additional $116 billion in entitlement cuts to secure Coburn's endorsement.
    If there was a more inept President of a country (5.00 / 5) (#19)
    by NYShooter on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:31:02 PM EST
    I'm not aware of him.

    maybe Karzai?

    Parent

    Not sure why you think Obama is inept (5.00 / 2) (#115)
    by Romberry on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 06:53:22 AM EST
    I think just the opposite. Obama has mad skills. Really. Just think about how he was able to secure the Democratic nomination, win the presidency and using the Democratic party label as cover set about enacting a Republican wet-dream agenda. Wall Street was bailed out and got to keep their bonuses. A Republican health insurance plan was passed which cements our for-profit system of health care into place and which mandates that Americans buy insurance from for-profit corporations which get to skim profits off the top. War has been expanded. Gitmo remains open. Extraordinary rendition continues. The USA PATRIOT Act was renewed without debate or modification. Military spending is up. And to top it all off, Obama is going to be the Democrat that helps Republicans cut Social Security.

    It isn't possible to be that inept. This was planned. And it was executed very well.

    Obama is a Republican.

    OMG!  (Obama Must Go!)

    Parent

    I understand (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by NYShooter on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 09:00:54 AM EST
     what you're saying, and from that perspective, you're right, he's a genius.

    But, in analyzing Obama's administration the view is not clear and apparent. Its more like looking through a kaleidoscope.

     Yes, he's managed to betray those he duped into voting for him, and yes, he's managed to steer what once was the Democratic Party into some sort of obscene (sorry, gotta say it,) fascist direction. That part of his "management" has been successful.

    But, as a wonderful old, Jewish boss I once had liked to say, "Boychuk, its as much of a sin to make a nickle when you should have made a dime as it is to not have made the nickle in the first place." Why I find that quote appropriate is because  of what Obama's accomplishments could have been. With the assets the American public handed him in '08, he could have, and should have, ruled the world. Between the incredible force and velocity of the electorate's mandate, and the actual political machinery we gave him in Congress, any obstacle standing in the way of leading the country into the future we all wanted should have been shooed away like an adolescent flicks a snot ball.

    The Republicans should have been made to have to raise their hands in order to speak.......instead he took our victory and handed it to the Right Wing Flat Earth Thumpers.  

    Just imagine for a second if Reagan was the President now and a group of wack-off Democrats tried to prevent the debt ceiling being raised. How long would the "crisis" be allowed to last?.......30 seconds, if that long.  

    Parent

    One thing you have to remember (none / 0) (#129)
    by Romberry on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 01:16:33 PM EST
    Just imagine for a second if Reagan was the President now and a group of wack-off Democrats tried to prevent the debt ceiling being raised. How long would the "crisis" be allowed to last?.......30 seconds, if that long.

    That's true, but I think irrelevant. Obama has worked to bring this crisis about. He wanted it. It serves his agenda, and his agenda is to cut. If Obama had not wanted this, all he need have done is make it clear to the American public what default would really mean, and make it clear to the congress that he would only sign a clean bill. But Obama didn't want a clean bill. In fact, when it looked like he might in effect get a clean bill, he rejected the idea. Cuts are what he wants. And he is using this crisis to get them.

    Parent

    Obama is a friend of Coburn (none / 0) (#21)
    by BTAL on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:32:59 PM EST
    Google results for coburn obama friendship

    Parent
    Please, please stop (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by NYShooter on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:37:31 PM EST
    you want us to add vomiting to go with the migraine?

    Parent
    mmm, just wait til (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by observed on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:42:01 PM EST
    Obama and his pal tackle global warming


    Parent
    Coburn was quite civil (none / 0) (#43)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 07:34:20 PM EST
    with his bag-man etiquette on behalf of Senator Ensign.

    Parent
    But, I thought you were a friend of Coburn (none / 0) (#73)
    by christinep on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 09:11:09 PM EST
    ...based upon your past comments, BTAL?

    Parent
    Really? (none / 0) (#122)
    by sj on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 11:20:58 AM EST
    These are the types of comments you're handing out now?

    I have to say, though, that I really appreciate the sort of "Shorter christinep" format of it all.

    Parent

    Always a silver lining (none / 0) (#126)
    by Yman on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 12:05:52 PM EST
    The comma key on her keyboard has gotta be on its last legs...

    Parent
    I would never go far (none / 0) (#87)
    by cal1942 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 10:18:28 PM EST
    as an elected official.  I'd have told Coburn to go f*ck himself.

    Some healer, DR. Coburn must have taken the Hypocritic Oath instead of the Hippocratic Oath.

    Parent

    Someone's (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by lentinel on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:39:26 PM EST
    gonna get thrown under the bus.

    Us.

    so that's all it takes (5.00 / 3) (#28)
    by NYShooter on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:44:16 PM EST
    a guy walks out and the dems cut another 100+ billion to beg him to come back?

    you know, the Republicans should let Obama run unopposed next year. They can't possibly do better with one of their own than what Obama has given them, and will continue giving.

    I told you all he's a sociopath. not so far out any more, is it?

    Unopposed (5.00 / 4) (#90)
    by cal1942 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 10:29:45 PM EST
    I can't help but think that Obama is in the midst of fulfilling the dreams of right-wingers everywhere.  Aiming to kill Social Security for decades they've seen their wish come true and they got the "other" side to do it for them.

    No Republican President could have gotten away with this.

    Parent

    meh (none / 0) (#30)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:51:49 PM EST
    "sociopath" = pretty much a job requirement for anyone who has enough ego to want the job

    maybe more useful just to say that Obama is a cr@p Democrat, unless by "Democrat" we now must mean "Nu Dems"

    Parent

    repectfully disagree (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by NYShooter on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 07:52:20 PM EST
    You may be confusing a megalomaniac with a sociopath.

    I agree, almost all Presidents have clinically deranged egos, but not all are sociopaths.

    Obama is a sociopath. He simply is incapable of identifying with those whose lives his actions are destroying. Generals in war destroy lives, but most feel sorrow for the innocent victims. Obama feels nothing.

    And that makes him the most dangerous man in the world.

    Parent

    kind of sad, no? (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:23:39 PM EST
    that we must parse the nuances of "sociopath" & "megalomaniac" in order to discuss the nation's #1 public servant

    or maybe we should just think of him as a community organizer, because he sure has some plans for our communities

    Parent

    TAF, I got back to the last open thread (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by Towanda on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 10:38:32 PM EST
    too late to reply to your reply to me, with that link.  Ye gods, that essay swooning about Obama as Valentino, the "desert lover," was just disgusting.  How can democracy survive such idiocy?

    Parent
    Answer (5.00 / 3) (#96)
    by cal1942 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 10:45:05 PM EST
    We're not surviving.

    Parent
    He isnt acting (5.00 / 0) (#107)
    by Amiss on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 12:41:35 AM EST
    like he is a "servant" of the public to me. He acts more like a servant to himself and the right wing.

    Parent
    C'mon Addams Family (1.50 / 2) (#75)
    by christinep on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 09:13:41 PM EST
    ...you are too smart not to see the cliff and the Repubs on this thread goading/urging/hyping. (It is a classic technique--Nixon was good at it--stir the pot with inserted Repubs.)

    Parent
    christinep (5.00 / 6) (#97)
    by cal1942 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 10:47:25 PM EST
    You can't begin to imagine the damage you're doing.

    You sound like Obama dumping on progressives.

    Parent

    "Damage?" (none / 0) (#131)
    by christinep on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 02:55:58 PM EST
    The eye of the beholder.  There are many Democrats, like myself, who see things differently than you. Life is like that. (And, I don't have to lash out accusing people with whom  there is disagreement by questioning their sanity, perjorative namecalling, or translating an opinion into a claim of doing "damage." The poet Robert Burns long ago opined "Oh the gift he wld gie us, to see ourselfes as others see us.") Tolerance helps a lot, cal; genuine tolerance is at the heart of democracy.

    Parent
    thanks, christinep (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 11:51:05 PM EST
    you know i respect you

    it's just that i know that these folks are not Republicans, not by a long shot

    i'm old enough to have some experience of infiltrators

    these are disaffected Democrats

    the party will come to regret what it unleashed in 2008

    still sincerely interested in hearing more about your analysis - i always learn from you

    Parent

    And, thank you, Addams Family (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by christinep on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 02:58:09 PM EST
    You renew my belief in genuine debate.

    Parent
    The Repubs on this thread? (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by Romberry on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 06:54:46 AM EST
    You have completely lost the plot.

    Parent
    Addendum (none / 0) (#76)
    by christinep on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 09:16:33 PM EST
    For now, I give up. You guys are on a tangent...and, I've got to back off. It is getting a bit much in venting, cynicism, and fearful fantasy, even for me.

    Parent
    and now (none / 0) (#110)
    by NYShooter on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 01:14:53 AM EST
    I agree 100%

    Parent
    I agree (none / 0) (#112)
    by klassicheart on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 01:20:02 AM EST
    He has no heart...everything is about image...

    Parent
    The Manchurian Candidate (none / 0) (#111)
    by klassicheart on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 01:18:01 AM EST
    I have been saying what is really accurate.  Obama is just a shill....hoodwinking the stupid progressives...the ones who see themselves so smart...and adopting Republican policies...Obama has no soul...he is totally bought off...But then again, many of us told Dems that Obama's history said alot...The power of marketing....But the working class knew....they never were for him

    Parent
    Well, we can kiss economic recovery goodbye (5.00 / 5) (#50)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:09:42 PM EST
    for another few years. Name one new job that gets created because of this. Businesses so happy that the deficit is slightly shrunk that they will start hiring? Puhleeeze.

    it's about asset stripping (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:17:55 PM EST
    a k a "privatization"

    makes me sick, but good thing i just threw up in my mouth - otherwise i'd have to check myself into the hospital & i can't afford the pay toilet

    Parent

    If reports are accurate (5.00 / 3) (#70)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:56:26 PM EST
    Obama is willing to do away with taxing off shore funds of corporations,

    That should help provide corporations with the incentive to off shore even more business.

    Parent

    From a flood (5.00 / 0) (#98)
    by cal1942 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 10:49:29 PM EST
    to a tsunami.

    Parent
    Did you read about U.S./Chrysler? 400,000 (none / 0) (#109)
    by oculus on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 01:14:30 AM EST
    auto industry jobs pouff.  100,000 jobs now re Chrysler and U.S. gives up on TARP funds b/4 all repd.  Why?  

    Parent
    Yep (none / 0) (#59)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:16:34 PM EST
    this deal looks to be soooo baaadd that we should get ready for President Romney. We are going to struggle mightily for the next four years no matter whether it's Obama or Romney because they both share the same ideology.


    Parent
    i mentioned on another thread (none / 0) (#64)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:21:27 PM EST
    my OFA friends in Berkeley who have decided to register as Republicans & vote for Romney in the CA primary

    they figure that CA is safe for Obama but worry that the GOP will nominate somebody crazier than the Mittster

    they also figure that even though CA is deep blue, Obama may well lose the general

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#66)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:23:41 PM EST
    I'm voting in the GOP primary here in GA too but I don't know who yet. I don't know the schedule but it might be down to just a few candidates when that time rolls around. Gosh, all this is going to be less than a year away.

    Parent
    J, you left out the (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by observed on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:12:35 PM EST
    Bankers in your poll! O is going to hurt them good.

    Democrats are so angry..... (5.00 / 4) (#57)
    by desertswine on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:15:00 PM EST
    that they're going to stamp their feet.

    "Somebody's gonna get thrown" ... (none / 0) (#6)
    by Yman on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:41:30 PM EST
    ... under the bus".

    Yep.

    Three guesses.

    I am reminded of the (none / 0) (#32)
    by observed on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:58:14 PM EST
    Aumf vote . Bush used the pressure of the election to hurry a bad vote; Obama uses the Aug. 2 deadline similarly.
    Help! (none / 0) (#38)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 07:16:53 PM EST
    I keep reading these posts indicating that Obama has massively cut benefits while getting no tax increases and that he has sold us out in the final arrangement.

    Surely it must have already occurred and we have had the ceiling raised based on the certainty if the comments about what happened.

    Can someone shoot me that link?

    Also, can someone tell me why all of these comments focus on Obama and not the folks actually trying to destroy the entitlements programs completely.  It's amazing that there are so many angry and fired up folks here and none of them are directing that anger at republicans.

    That's who I am mad about but crazy me I guess.

    Didn't you lose that argument when (5.00 / 12) (#39)
    by oculus on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 07:21:52 PM EST
    when the Pres. rejected McConnell's plan as not enough deficit reduction?

    Parent
    You're not crazy (5.00 / 6) (#42)
    by shoephone on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 07:22:33 PM EST
    You're simply full of shyte. That's all.

    Parent
    sure (5.00 / 7) (#44)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 07:39:14 PM EST
    can someone tell me why all of these comments focus on Obama and not the folks actually trying to destroy the entitlements programs completely

    because Obama, in his comments on Medicare for the past couple of weeks, & in his willingness even to put Medicare cuts "on the table," has positioned himself to the right of the "Keep Your Government Hands Off My Medicare" TEA PARTY

    Parent

    You're right (5.00 / 8) (#45)
    by Yman on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 07:40:42 PM EST
    People should wait until they feel the wheels on their back before they start to complain about being thrown under the Obama bus ...

    ... yet again.

    Let's see - the NY Times reporting on a proposed/almost done deal versus ABG's opinion that it's all "just posturing".

    Not really a difficult choice.

    BTW - People aren't complaining about the Republicans slashing Medicare, SS and social programs because they expect it from Republicans.

    Not so much from a Democratic POTUS.

    Parent

    Cmon now. Shouldn't some things go without (5.00 / 3) (#49)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:05:30 PM EST
    saying? Of course we are mad at the Republicans too. But it's like being mad at the dog for barking.

    Parent
    First, why would anyone in their (5.00 / 8) (#78)
    by masslib on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 09:25:00 PM EST
    right mind care about the deficit right now?  Dude, unemployment near 10% is the new norm, we've got much bigger problems than the deficit.  Second, these people, none of them, have any credibility.  They just extended the Bush tax cuts.  Now they want to get deficit reduction.  Give me a break.  Third, let's say Obama gets tax increases for his cuts.  So?  Why do we need tax revenues if we are cutting government's most popular programs?  Oh wait, I know, deficit reduction.  LOL.

    Why are people focusing on Obama?  Uh, he's the President.  I'm pretty sure most of us also focused on Bush when he was screwing up the country too.  Of course the Republicans are batsh*t crazy.  That's a given.  But that makes it even more important for Obama not to make grand bargains with them.  That would be nutz.  The people running the current GOP are to the right of their own voters.  Sometimes Presidents must first and foremost play defense.  It's not always time to score big bargains.    

    Parent

    Obama (5.00 / 7) (#101)
    by cal1942 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 11:09:05 PM EST
    chose to give away the store.  There was no compelling reason to offer Social Security on the sacrificial alter.

    He's the one who proposed the grand bargain.  

    He wants something BIG to happen here but he was unwilling to do something BIG when it came to health care insurance.

    It happens that cuts to Social Security and Medicare are part of the grand bargain.

    Obama has been aiming at Social Security for some time (publicly since at least 2007) and now he's an opportunist using the debt ceiling impasse to cut into Social Security, a self-financed program that has nothing to do with the national debt.

    Obama's December Deal did NOT include raising the debt ceiling.  Why did he not ask for a debt ceiling increase after the mid-terms and before the new Congress took office.

    Parent

    Heh (5.00 / 3) (#105)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 11:45:28 PM EST
    it's like being in family court and finding your lawyer is negotiating for your ex to have the kids 75% of the time although you wanted full custody.  

    You wonder where that money went...

    The deal is not yet inked though, I'll give you that.

    Parent

    Take two aspirin (none / 0) (#41)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 07:22:13 PM EST
    and call me in the morning.

    I'll take a pass at this tomorrow (none / 0) (#71)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 09:04:38 PM EST
    but as regular readers know, thi sis going as I predicted.

    You don't have (5.00 / 5) (#74)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 09:12:52 PM EST
    to be a weather man to know which way the wind blows, BTD.

    Parent
    You are a little late to the party (5.00 / 7) (#81)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 09:45:16 PM EST
    A few of us predicted this in 2008.

    Parent
    Yeh, because we listened (5.00 / 6) (#95)
    by Towanda on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 10:41:22 PM EST
    to what Obama was saying.

    Parent
    Ditto! (5.00 / 5) (#102)
    by cal1942 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 11:10:38 PM EST


    Parent
    People have short memories (5.00 / 3) (#113)
    by klassicheart on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 01:25:29 AM EST
    Although being right about this is sooo depressing.

    Parent
    NY Times: Obama and Repubs Close to Agreement on Budget Cuts | 131 comments (131 topical)

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