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Tuesday Afternoon Open Thread

In case you haven't heard, the United States of America is shutting down in the next few days, as a bunch of lunatic morons, enabled by "serious people," refuse to allow the paying of bills by the government.

It was a nice country for a while anyway.

Open Thread.

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    BTD (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 06:36:11 PM EST
    you are scaring me. We are just starting to get our heads above water from the last several years and now we've got crazy people who want to blow up the government.

    Maybe the chamber of commerce and wall street will come down hard on the heads of these morons.

    Too late (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by NYShooter on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 01:46:41 AM EST
    I heard two spokespersons for the sanity challenged sect say today, that they hate Wall Street, and, the Chamber, also. The "Leadership," who designed, and built, this Frankenstein Monster, guys like Dick Armey, and the Koch Bros. have lost control of their little darlings.

    Remember, a couple of months ago, during the trial of "He, who cannot be mentioned," when we were lectured, ad nauseum, that it's not a crime as long as the perpetrator believed his actions were non-criminal? Well, you see, these pointed hats (and, heads) Bela Lugosi clones believe that the world financial community will actually breathe a sigh of relief when we default on our obligations. They will be thrilled that the Real Patriots have wrestled control from the Marxist traitors, have "taken their country back," and, will then bid the markets up, sky high.

    And, with Sarah Palin leading the way, skipping down "Blind-as-a-bat, Boulevard,' doing her best "Dorothy from Kansas Impersonation," what could possibly go wrong?

    Parent

    The fantasy of an ideologue (none / 0) (#62)
    by christinep on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:57:37 AM EST
    It tends to play that way, doesn't it ... the fantasy of the "ism" along the lines of "when the awakening comes/when the revolution comes/when we help it all to implode, etc. etc., then the people will see the light and the world and all its people will be changed by our great insight."  Or, maybe, it is a flip-side version of "they just don't get it so I'll take my marbles/whatever and go home and when I don't play they will see how wrong they were and come and beg me to lead."  Ah yes.

    After a long walk this a.m. with my puppy Celeste, a walk in crisp October, I'm thinking also that inhabitants of Teapot World and their ilk (and all the similar ilk of previous times) can't seem to resist going too far to speed up their fantasy play.  Thank goodness that they forget that extremes or outer flanks have never played well for long in this society.  Thank goodness that they act out that familiar destiny of taking themselves down.  Indulge me as I allow myself to grin a lot now as I imagine the closing scene of defeat for those destructive nuts in the House today.  But then, I must be patient ... remembering the words of Y. Berra.

    One perplexing question in this latest Ism Play: Why did Boehner choose the tactic that he chose? (The Speakership couldn't be the sole answer, because he had to realize that the nut sect would abandon him whenever they could in any event ... they even abandoned Sen. McConnell officially in the past week.) Perplexing.

    Parent

    I think there's more than enough (5.00 / 3) (#69)
    by Anne on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 10:27:09 AM EST
    fantasizing going on, and I'm not sure it's serving you well.

    You don't seem to comprehend that these people are like cockroaches - or, stink bugs - you think you've conquered them, and then - uh-oh - here they are again, often in greater numbers.

    Dollars to doughnuts the hardliners will work harder than ever to put more Tea Party-types in to replace those Republicans deemed not conservative enough; they will not be going away, they will not accept defeat.  They will double down, christine, not fold.

    I guess that's why I don't take much enjoyment from any of this; for one thing, it's hurting people, people who don't have the luxury of taking walks in the crisp air with their puppies because they're scrambling to find work, or trying to figure out how to keep their businesses going.

    And the worst of it is, christine, that chances are the Democrats, rather than trying to capitalize on the failures of the GOP, and crushing them into dust under their Johnston & Murphys, will continue to try to "work with" them, to find consensus, and all that will do is make it easier for the Republican Phoenix to gather strength to rise from the ashes.

    But you just keep grinning and fantasizing about a "victory," Christine...God willing, one day the view without your rose-colored glasses will be the same as the view with them, but I'm not particularly confident that day is coming anytime soon.


    Parent

    You're right (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by CoralGables on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 10:41:08 AM EST
    in that the GOP extremists will keep trying to elect more of their cohorts into the House by throwing out other Republicans which is probably good for the Dems. An old adage the GOP won't likely take to heart: when you think you've hit bottom there is still quite a ways to fall.

    As for "...crushing them into dust...", that only happens at the polls when people vote. So the only way to crush them into dust is under our own shoes. That's our responsibility and can't be blamed on anyone else.

    Parent

    That's not true at all (none / 0) (#85)
    by sj on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 11:40:00 AM EST
    As for "...crushing them into dust...", that only happens at the polls when people vote.
    Or rather, it's only partly true. To clarify: That is a necessary step. And that's what everyone worked so hard to do in 2008, yes? But dang it all, we missed that supermajority by "this much" so the GOP still had all the power.

    Because the Executive and Congress gave it to them. That's the other part. Power once acquired must be used. Why didn't the Dems have so much power when they were the minority power, I want to know. Can you imagine Johnson needing approval from the opposition so badly that he wouldn't use his own political capital? He was no angel, but that man understood power and how to use it.

    I'm so of excuses.

    Parent

    And anyone who thinks the GOP isn't (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Anne on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 12:09:23 PM EST
    coming for Obamacare harder than ever is dreaming.

    It won't help the ACA's cause that the part of this deal that will require verification of financial need for premium subsidies on policies offered through the exchanges is going to further bog down a platform that is already mired in delays.  

    But I guess all anyone will be talking about is how Dudley Do-right saved the lovely Nell from the train tracks Snidely Whiplash had tied her to...again.

    Parent

    They forget the saying, which is SO true, (5.00 / 2) (#124)
    by Amiss on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 02:30:03 PM EST
    "With power comes GREAT responsibility". Because I feel that most of our ELECTED OFFICIALS are totally irresponsible. This is just my opinion and not meant to be rude.

    Parent
    The saying that they (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by Zorba on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 02:40:47 PM EST
    seem to be embodying instead is "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    Parent
    And they have (5.00 / 2) (#145)
    by Amiss on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 04:01:33 PM EST
    Proven that as well.
    Very good pick-up on that.

    Parent
    Dow jumped (none / 0) (#146)
    by Amiss on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 04:06:27 PM EST
    More than 200 points according to USA Today due to the agreement.

    Parent
    It is "sick" (none / 0) (#94)
    by sj on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 12:15:11 PM EST
    that I am of excuses. I am so sick of excuses.

    Believe it or not, I previewed.

    Parent

    Oh, but I do (2.00 / 1) (#108)
    by christinep on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 01:07:29 PM EST
    regard the Teaparty Pots as vermin and--worse yet--as would-be traitors who strew and spew chaos and anger to destroy the government in order to bring back ??? the Confederacy or something like it.  Because my writing is more tempered does not mean that I am ... at least with regard to that ultimately dangerous group.

    Where I depart from the imagery of crushing them under my feet (other than that they would tarnish, dirty my shoes) is that the best way to destroy them, in the circumstance, is to not interfere too much with their self-destruction.  Sweetie, I do not wear rose-colored glasses nor clutch pearls nor anything like what you seem to imagine.  I'm a hard-knocks, seasoned fighter in these kinds of battles.  One major lesson that surfaces each time: Take care when trying to demolish totally these kinds of crazies ... this kudzu ... better to have them minimized, encircled and a laughing stock who only damage those going near them (see, e.g., Ted Cruz.)

    Certainly, the likes of the Teapots will do a reprise in future.  They always do.  Don't kid yourself about total and all-time annihilation of that variety of filth ... else we start to think the way those characters, those ideologues do.
    And, they lose; they always do ... especially when you don't get drawn into that mire.

    Certainly also: Characters like these always double-down (maybe they'll go back to the militia woods of the 1990s.)  That is why acting around them, negotiating and acting apart from them has always been the sensible route in this median-based society.  Sometimes it takes awhile, patience, and then discipline to adhere to that approach.  And, then, today!  If all goes as planned in the Senate and House, we will have the framework we need to get beyond what the Tea Party thought would be our undoing as a government.  Look, look ... there is barely a fig leaf for the Repubs to show for all their destructive efforts.  Your d*#n right, I'll grin and smile and chuckle and laugh out loud because it will be a long while before they try that stupid maneuver again.

    Parent

    "Sweetie?" Really? (5.00 / 4) (#116)
    by Anne on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 01:35:49 PM EST
    And this:

    That is why acting around them, negotiating and acting apart from them has always been the sensible route in this median-based society.  Sometimes it takes awhile, patience, and then discipline to adhere to that approach.  And, then, today!

    What a load of codswallop.

    Parent

    Oy (4.25 / 4) (#111)
    by sj on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 01:21:27 PM EST
    Sweetie, I do not wear rose-colored glasses nor clutch pearls nor anything like what you seem to imagine.  I'm a hard-knocks, seasoned fighter in these kinds of battles.
    Patronizing and glaringly unself-aware at the same time. Yay! We have 2 months before we play this game again.

    Doing the Victory Life Hack. U!S!A! O-ba-ma! woo-hoo!!

    Your d*#n right, I'll grin and smile and chuckle and laugh out loud because it will be a long while before they try that stupid maneuver again.
    What utter crap. We didn't go over the insanity cliff today, but we're still standing at the edge of it. Is there any movement toward going back to pre-sequester funding levels? Or is the ratcheting down of the middle class continuing?

    I'll be delighted to be wrong. I would even do the Victory Life Hack to be wrong. But I haven't been wrong so far about the end results: paper victories on the backs of the middle, working and lower classes.

    Parent

    You seem to be emoting a lot (2.00 / 1) (#115)
    by christinep on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 01:35:40 PM EST
    Why don't you just ignore what I write if it gets to you that much!

    Aside: Put on neutral glasses and review Anne's comments to me.  IMO, several of the sentences in the comment to which I replied can best be characterized as "unprovoked condescension."  (Yep, sometimes we all respond to condescension.)

    Hey, have a very good day, sj.  The day is beautiful in Colorado even without rose-colored glasses.

    Parent

    D@mn right I'm emoting a lot (5.00 / 4) (#123)
    by sj on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 02:24:30 PM EST
    This is a paper victory. Oh, make no mistake, it's a paper victory that benefits me. A little, anyway. I won't have to worry about another all-hands meeting until January or December. That's not nothing, but it's still a paper victory.

    I was raised to care about what happens to others around me. I was raised to see them. And I spent my pre-1st grade life where many of my neighbors (including my grandmother) had out-houses and water pumps instead of plumbing. And you're prattling on about what a hard-knocks, seasoned fighter you are. pfffft.

    As if.

    As if you would know a fight for survival if you saw one. Your giggly smugness represents the worst of Democratic Washington, IMO.

    Thankfully the 60's happened and the middle class grew and most of those houses are gone except for a couple that have been kept as a solemn reminder. But in the meantime, somehow growth started to reverse itself, and the current young people in my family are having a much harder time than their parents, who themselves are having a harder time in their Golden Years than they did in early adulthood.

    I don't just see this, christine. I feel it. I always have. And I can feel it when the tides of fortune flow one way or another para mis comadres y compadres. So I "emote". A lot. And I have watched as those tides have receded consistently for the last 13 years. The last 13 years. And it hurts me.

    The Process holds no interest for me, only the results. And these results? Mediocre results for a mediocre (at best) administration. Checking marks in columns labelled "pro" and "con", or "success" and "failure", or whatever column headings you use is just ... lame.

    By the way, I don't think you wear rose-colored glasses, and I don't want to interfere with your beautiful day in Colorado. So put on your blinders and enjoy your Phyrric victory.

    Parent

    While not trying to get into a match (none / 0) (#156)
    by christinep on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 05:01:40 PM EST
    about background and want ... let me just say that your paragraph about "I was raised" could have been written by me.  Hey, little ole me almost ended up in a foster home with my sister because so many people told my Dad (who had to quit school at 14 to work in the mines and had more than one unemployment stint from general layoffs) that he couldn't afford to raise us after my mother died at 30 ... thank goodness he moved us out of there to Colorado where we lived in basements and he sought work.  Does that sound familiar, sj?  My Dad was great; he was loving and greater than great; and, he got us through some very tough times.  (BTW, my grandparents had an outhouse, we heated the water for baths on a wood stove, and all the rest.)  

    Just give the personal insinuations a break. And, as to "feeling" the hurt of others, as to empathy ... cut out your unfounded condemnation of me and others with whom you merely disagree. I do not nor have not questioned nor made up/imagined/concocted anything about your background or thoughts.  OTOH, if you choose to dish it out, have the sense to deal with it without personal put-downs if you should get the back-of-a-hand in return.

    You say that you have lived and felt it ... well, so have I.  Very much so.

    Parent

    Does it sound familiar (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by sj on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 05:27:11 PM EST
    Sort of. Except for the part about determining success by creating columns showing achievements and setbacks, and grinning and smiling and chuckling and laughing out loud at today's events. And the repetitive cheering on of this mediocre (at best) chief executive as brilliant! and astute! and wise!

    But other than that, we're the same. right.

    If those are your roots, you have surely left them far behind. I find myself unable to titter about it with the same distance that you do --  hard knocks, seasoned fighter that you are.

    Moreover, this hypocritical little gem

    if you choose to dish it out, have the sense to deal with it without personal put-downs if you should get the back-of-a-hand in return.
    coming from you, sweetie, who dishes it out on a daily, is quite interesting.

    I don't have a back-of-a-hand for you. It turns out a single finger is sufficient. But isn't it interesting how the "sweetie" christine is gone? There it is -- the real you.

    Parent

    You are now arguing over nothing (none / 0) (#162)
    by christinep on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 05:31:05 PM EST
    We disagree.  Get over it.

    Parent
    I have no problem disagreeing (none / 0) (#165)
    by sj on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 05:58:41 PM EST
    I have a problem with your insistence that we are the same. That, and your callous disregard for those affected by the policies of your wise! astute! brilliant! president.

    But, I have a proposal for you: if you can stop being dismissive, and insulting, and condescending, and patronizing, I suppose I can "get over it" and stop calling you on it.

    Parent

    If you can stop being "dismissive (none / 0) (#166)
    by christinep on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 06:05:31 PM EST
    and insulting," I could likewise see my way clear to have further discussion.  Look, sj:  I have no anger toward you as a person... really ... nor do I believe (nor do I think I have ever said that we are the same or alike) that we share that much other than having some challenges in our younger days.  Recognize this: I have as much dedication toward bettering the economic situation/the overall situation of people who are suffering as you have; and, in my personal life, I have acted to that effect.  It is more than dismissive of you to indicate otherwise because it is not true nor do you know anything about my life.  

    Parent
    Not particularly interested (none / 0) (#168)
    by sj on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 06:11:58 PM EST
    in further discussion. If you paid attention you would note that I don't generally reach out to you until you have already crossed the line of civility.

    Unless it's dog related.

    So my offer still stands.

    Parent

    Christine, I'll read what you write, happily. (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by Farmboy on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 04:26:37 PM EST
    The behavior to which you refer that delights some posters is never going away. Even if Boehner and McConnell confess on national TV that the GOP plan all along was to shutdown the gov't in order to destroy the ACA, crush Social Security, and starve Granny, they won't accept it. Obama has done them wrong just by getting into the White House, and they know that he's up to no good.

    BTW, it's a nice day today in Minnesota as well. The trees are gorgeous.

    Parent

    Thank you very much, Farmboy. (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by christinep on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 05:05:46 PM EST
    foggy here on the banks of the Misssissippi (none / 0) (#182)
    by DFLer on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 08:27:55 AM EST
    and too damn cold!

    Parent
    Gee the only fig leaf the Republicans (4.25 / 4) (#151)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 04:20:28 PM EST
    have to show for their efforts is that the Democrats agreed to lower the base line for the budget to the amount of the Paul Ryan budget.

    IIRC the Democrats at one time dismissed that amount as unacceptable.

    If you and the Dems continue to "fight" your brand of a good fight, by the time we are though, 95% the things on the House's demand list will be given to them. The only difference is that they will be given away in installments and not in just one deal.  

    Parent

    Yep (5.00 / 2) (#155)
    by Yman on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 04:53:06 PM EST
    Even When the GOP Loses, It Wins - Think the Senate deal is a resounding defeat for Republicans? Think again. - The Nation

    Because the deal only includes minor concessions, the Beltway consensus is that it represents a resounding defeat for Republicans, who "surrendered" their original demands to defund or delay Obamacare. In the skirmish of opinion polls, that may be true, for now. But in the war of ideas, the Senate deal is but a stalemate, one made almost entirely on conservative terms. The GOP now goes into budget talks with sequestration as the new baseline, primed to demand longer-term cuts in Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. And they still hold the gun of a US default to the nation's head in the next debt ceiling showdown.

    Surrender? Any more "victories" like this and Democrats will end up paying tribute into the GOP's coffers.



    Parent
    Speaking as Boehner's Conscience (none / 0) (#67)
    by CoralGables on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 10:14:44 AM EST
    He really had no choice but to play it out to the deadline and hope his cat caucus could be corralled and brought to their senses.

    They couldn't and didn't.

    The interesting vote totals in the House will show what Republicans don't care about a Tea Party primary (expect most those Yes votes from R's in the Northeast and Northwest). It will also show what Dems even though they might want to vote Yes will still vote No, once they see it will pass without their vote, to help protect their seat in a mostly GOP southern district.

    Parent

    Agree with your geographical prediction, CG (none / 0) (#68)
    by christinep on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 10:20:30 AM EST
    Add to that, perhaps, some scattered seats where federal employment and/or contractor connections are particularly strong -- e.g., Virginia and two districts in Colorado.

    Parent
    You're right about Virginia (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by CoralGables on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 10:43:36 AM EST
    There will likely be several GOP Reps from there that vote Yes. My only excuse in not specifically mentioning Virginia is that from my location that is the Northeast.

    Parent
    I love (none / 0) (#107)
    by Amiss on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 01:04:28 PM EST
    this! Great humor leant to a very serious situation.

    Parent
    Excellent video (5.00 / 4) (#5)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 06:41:44 PM EST
    chart presentation about income distribution. Pass it along to the 90% of Americans who still don't get it.

    correction: wealth distribution, to be precise (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 06:43:12 PM EST
    It wasn't me. (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Edger on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 07:49:23 PM EST
    I was nowhere near the place. I was on the other side of town when it happened, getting as drunk as possible as fast as possible.

    Parent
    Top graphics to present very sobering thoughts (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by gbrbsb on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 09:13:37 PM EST
    Chilling breakdown... (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 06:12:52 AM EST
    Almost makes you wonder if default is the best option we got...a reset button if you will. The dollar dies with the nation. A loaf of bread becomes more valuable than a trillion dollars, just like that.

    Cuz those charts are just gonna keep inching in the wrong direction, we're deer in the headlights up in here.

    Sh*t with any luck the new dark age before the new dawning might only last 50 years, if you wanna think positively.  A few of us might even live to see a phoenix rise from the ashes, if we learn our lesson.

    Wouldn't that be the ultimate irony?  The TPers out to destroy "entitlements" actually destroy extreme capitalism. Accidental hero idiot savants lol.

    If it weren't for us having to hunt for rats to eat and sh*t, it doesn't sound half bad.  

     

    Parent

    If they manage to destroy the economy... (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by unitron on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:11:10 AM EST
    ...and make everyone's dollars worthless, they'll achieve their goal of preventing Obamacare, or just about any other kind of medical care as well.

    And if they do get sick and need a doctor, I hope they've got enough chickens with which to barter, or they're going to be s*** out of luck (or cluck, as the case may be).

    Parent

    I have insurance and am SOL (5.00 / 2) (#136)
    by Amiss on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 03:23:24 PM EST
    I am also one of the ones SOL because of all of being scre'wed by these so-called officials whose morals do not measure up to those of their constituencies.
    No cancer in my family tho. Just heart disease, diabetes, peripheral vascular disease, secondary to the diabetes along with kidney failure, chronic pancreatitis, chronic bowel and dietary disease, skin problems, going blind, just to name a few.
    IOW pure luck that I can come here and be rude :).
    I guess I am lucky that at least we have some really good hospitals, Doctors and healthcare workers in our city. Also, I guess me turning 65 in August will help in the long run. Because between April and August my medical bills that my husband's work- related insurance did NOT cover were $450,000.
    I kinda feel like I am kinda entitled to get rude and angry, especially when the confusion kicks in 2degree to my kidneys not filtering out the poisons that wreak havoc on me.
    I have run my mouth too much and it is just my perspective, I can't judge yours, it is not my right to do so.


    Parent
    I'm tired of this country being held hostage by (5.00 / 6) (#8)
    by Angel on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 07:37:20 PM EST
    these insane GOP and Tea Party egomaniacs.  And I'm tired of the Democrats playing nice. I'm fed up.  Period.

    the threat of "being primaried" (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by DFLer on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 08:10:04 PM EST
    by the Ts...I say bring it on. T-kooks could easily loose to Dems with the help of Republican sick of the Ts.

    Jim Demint leans on Boehner and B caves. When was the last election Demint won?...6 years ago maybe?

    Parent

    He was re-elected in 2010, actually. (none / 0) (#16)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 08:44:44 PM EST
    He bailed in the second year of his second six-year term.

    Parent
    Actually (none / 0) (#64)
    by christinep on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 10:04:07 AM EST
    there was some good, old-fashioned hardball ... played very well and solidly by Harry Reid.  (Fingers crossed, of course ... because it isn't over yet.)  

    Parent
    Hardball, in this case... (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Dadler on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 10:32:23 AM EST
    ...would be utter rhetorical devastation. These are corrupt half-wits we are battling, and we can't even summon 3/4 wits. The Dems have already failed, in their own way, on this. Not that I put them on equal footing in this particular debacle, but this is what you get when you settle for being essentially as financially corrupt as the other party. When you have, to beat a dead equine, no imagination whatsoever.

    Parent
    Boehner's Last Stand - from the NYTimes (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Angel on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 09:34:22 PM EST
    I felt this was too good to not pass along, am posting in its entirety because it is behind the NY Times paywall.

    The nature of Speaker John Boehner's final battle with the White House on the budget crisis is now clear: It doesn't matter what House Republicans win in exchange for raising the debt ceiling and re-opening government, as long as they win something.

    Gone is the big talk about "defunding Obamacare." Gone are the demands for delaying the health law, or delaying the individual mandate, or delaying the medical device tax. The final stand, according to the latest reports, is simply this: remove the health insurance subsidies for members of Congress, some executive branch officials, and some of their staffs. (Those staff members are furious about the potential cut to their incomes, and many have threatened to quit.)

    If that seems a paltry prize to win for causing this destructive, embarrassing crisis, that's because it is. But this fight really has nothing to do with the subsidies. It's all about not walking away empty handed, about Mr. Boehner persuading his Republican members that they forced President Obama to give something up in exchange for not wreaking havoc on the economy.

    And that's precisely why the president can't agree to it, even though the impact (for all but Congressional staffers) would be minimal.

    For the sake of the rest of his presidency, and the presidents to come, he has to make it clear that no chamber of Congress can back the White House into a corner by threatening the full faith and credit of the United States. Even a small concession, like ending the Congressional subsidies, would betray that principle.

    Of course that position is irreconcilable with the hard-right faction of the House that sees the debt ceiling as the only leverage that can turn them into a real political force. But the unprecedented use of that leverage has to be stopped here, even at a terrible cost, because the long-term cost would be so much worse.

    Once Senate Republicans and Democrats began cobbling together their own plan, Mr. Boehner could have ended the crisis by standing back and letting momentum for the Senate plan build. Instead, he chose to sabotage it, because he and the Tea Party faction clearly want to use the power of hostage-taking again.

    One of the provisions in the House's latest plan is a demand that the Treasury not use any special measures to prevent default the next time the debt hits the ceiling -- a provision, in other words, that would make default an even more likely possibility the next time than it will be on Thursday, when the Treasury runs out of borrowing authority. (The actual default will probably occur later this month.)

    Mr. Boehner may hope that the diminished nature of his final demand about Congressional subsidies will embarrass Democrats into approving it, but his tactics are as dangerous as ever.



    surprise, surprise (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by sj on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 12:08:58 AM EST
    The final stand, according to the latest reports, is simply this: remove the health insurance subsidies for members of Congress, some executive branch officials, and some of their staffs. (Those staff members are furious about the potential cut to their incomes, and many have threatened to quit.)
    Because naturally the rest of us are sanguine about the potential cut to our incomes.

    Parent
    Thank Makes No Sense... (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:30:16 AM EST
    ..."Don't take a deal that will keep us from defaulting because of the principle of the thing."

    No one outside the beltway cares about the subsidies.  And proving a point seems like a really empty victory should we going into default.

    They are giving them a concession prize.

    If they don't want Congress holding the country hostage, then write legislation that ensures they can't, do not take this country into another recession over principle, that is exactly what the T-bags are threatening to do.


    Parent

    I've really come to believe that the Tea Party (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Angel on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 09:59:27 PM EST
    faction of the GOP truly wants to shut down the government.  It's part of their longterm plan to dismantle as many governmental programs as they can, beginning with the Affordable Care Act.  They are batsh!t crazy and I hope there are enough sane Republicans who won't let them have that victory. We've really gone off the deep end when it comes down to Boehner not allowing a vote because he's afraid to lose his job as Speaker.  Jayzus.

    Some of them do want to shut it down... (none / 0) (#44)
    by unitron on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:22:22 AM EST
    ...and overthrow it and replace it with what would basically be Christian Sharia, or Judeo-Christian Sharia.

    The Far-Right Christian Movement Driving the Debt Default

    Parent

    Yes, I have sensed (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by KeysDan on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 10:05:11 AM EST
    that the foundation to the Republican fanaticism and zealotry is the need to "punish" the country for what it sees as its moral waywardness ---free money to the poor, especially poor black people and immigrants (including legal immigrants who do not speak English well),  same-sex marriage which is more salt on the wound of rights for gay women and men,, provision by government  of contraceptives, and, the biggie, legal abortion.

    The usual Republican Wall Street bankers and big businesses have lost their customary influence because of this non-alignment of goals.   The customary way of dealing with extremists has been to not deal with them, or to marshall their votes  with lip service.  But, Dr. Frankenrepublican's anarchist monster is now out-of-control and on the loose.

    Parent

    It is about religious (5.00 / 4) (#122)
    by MKS on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 02:16:26 PM EST
    extremism.

    Look at the main players in the Tea Party Caucus....They are all religious nuts.  Witness Bachmann who says the Second Coming is just around the corner.  

    Ted Cruz?  His father is a looney fundamentalist preacher.

    Senator Lee from Utah?  A true believing, literalist, conservative Mormon.

    It is not really about policy.  How can these loons seriously object to Romneycare, which was originally developed by the Heritage Foundation?

    It is about beating Obama and the Democrats.  They win a toothpick, no matter, just defeat the Democrats.   This validates them in a weird way.

    Dems need to stop trying to reason with these destructive crazies, and understand it is never about policy with them.  It is about defeating modernity.

    Parent

    I totally agree (5.00 / 2) (#175)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:00:46 PM EST
    They will stop caring about Obamacare the minute Obama is out of office . Then it will be on to whatever they latch on to about the next Dem leader. Impeaching Hillary,  Biden's foreign policy, whatever.

    Parent
    Well, (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 07:59:46 AM EST
    I just called my congress-critter Legitimate Rape Phil Gingrey and told him to stop the nonsense. I said if the GOP wants to blow up themselves then have it at but don't take the rest of it with you and I even said to the person who answered the phone that he now wants to take it out on people like you who work for him. I mean I know the numbers can't go any lower for the GOP but that's YOUR problem not mine. Anyway, I'm sure this failed to make one iota of difference but I just had to get it off my chest.

    I just left a voicemail at my critter's office as (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by Angel on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 08:08:14 AM EST
    they aren't answering the phones.  His outgoing message was some bs about how he loves America blah blah blah.  I told him if he loves this country so much then he needs to vote so as not to default and shut down the government in its entirety and that he needs to step away from Ted Cruz and the crazies in the Republican Party (yes, I used those words).  Won't make one damn bit of difference.  

    Parent
    I talked to Issa's staff (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by MKS on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:23:40 AM EST
    yesterday and said that he should vote for a clean C.R.  The staffperson's voice showed disappointment.

    And?  Issa said he would vote for a clean C.R.  
    (I did call, though, after he had already said that, but positive reinforcement can help.)


    Parent

    "It was a nice country..." (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by lentinel on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 08:44:59 AM EST
    I have always had the feeling that we were a great country.

    But this is mostly based on an illusion it seems.

    After all, we did commit what amounts to genocide on the Native Americans. Without pity. And although there is a bit of a furor at the present about the team name, "Redskins", this very racist issue has been raised for the last twenty years and no one gave a hang. Google the origin of that term. It is truly shocking.

    WW2 seems to have been the era that made Americans feel the most proud. It did amount to enormous sacrifice on the part of the American people, and it certainly had at least the appearance of pitting the truly good against the truly evil. I say appearance, because it was many moons before the horrors of the camps motivated anyone to take drastic measures to end them.
    And the ongoing business deals with nazis is a buried scandal. However, the bravery of our soldiers and the sacrifices made by our families made us proud.

    People, rightly or wrongly, really loved FDR.

    And Social Security and the WPA made Americans feel some connection with our government.

    And there are the enormous American contributions to the arts and science.

    But with the onset of the assassinations of the 1960s, the horrific and unconscionable war in Vietnam (something that the American people have yet to come to terms), our democracy and our moral fiber eroded.

    Not coming to terms with the war in Vietnam has cost us dearly. It made us change our true sense of patriotism - love of country based on its goodness and acheivements - to one that used to be identified with the worst of the German reichs - "my country right or wrong".

    Not coming to terms with the origins of the war in Vietnam, the lies foisted upon us by our political leadership and a press without integrity or conscience, enabled GW Bush to do the exact same thing to us again.

    And the horrors and deaths we inflicted upon the Iraqi people is something that no one in political life cares to talk about. Burying what we did to the Vietnamese, the cruelty, gave us the callus on our hearts that lets us continue to shrug off continuing horrors.

    And now, things are coming home to roost.
    Surveillance is everywhere. And they don't care if we know about it. There is nothing we can do about it. They have made us afraid of "the enemy", and so we shut up.

    And the government is clearly operating in the interests of the few. And they don't care if we know about it. There is nothing we can do about it. We have no opposition party or vocal candidates.

    So, yes. It was a nice country. I still feel a twinge when I see the flag, but I cannot honestly feel that it waves o'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

    Why the parks and monuments are closed (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by Yman on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 08:46:59 AM EST
    For those who are "questioning" why open air parks and monuments are closed during the shutdown, an enlightening article from a park ranger about why the monuments and parks are closed.

    Dang it, Yman! (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Angel on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 08:58:58 AM EST
    Quit posting articles that make sense.

    Parent
    I'm not impressed... (none / 0) (#43)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:14:04 AM EST
    sounds like we're all vandals and idiots in need of rescue to the good ranger...the tired NSA "you're all suspect" mentality.  The small percentage who abuse our national treasures is not a good enough reason to deny to all what is rightfully theirs to enjoy.

    Though I agree it's not the fault of all those who work for the National Park Service...we gotta take it up with Boner.  Till then, respectful civil disobedience is a-ok by me.

    Parent

    No one's saying that, Kdog (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by Yman on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:27:56 AM EST
    I'm not surprised by your opinion, given your strong libertarian/anti-authority beliefs, but there are legitimate reasons why these park sites should be closed.  No one is saying that we are all vandals and idiots in need of rescue, but there are literally thousands of acts of vandalism and medical/rescue aid at these sites every year ... and that's when they're fully staffed.  Not to mention the all of the regular maintenance (trash removal, etc.).  With 85-90% of the NPS furloughed, the situation would be much, much worse if they were left open.

    Parent
    The trash alone (none / 0) (#50)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:35:59 AM EST
    would create all kinds of headaches, including public health issues.

    Parent
    Nonsense. Even a kid knows how (2.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:42:25 AM EST
    to walk around a piece of trash on the ground.

    So much for the myth that "Nanny-Staters" are only liberals.

    Parent

    Um, (1.00 / 1) (#54)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:46:47 AM EST
    You know trash attracts things like rats and other vermin, right?  Things that spread disease.

    But I guess there are some "liberals" who don't understand things like basic science.

    Parent

    Can't speak for national parks... (none / 0) (#58)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:52:50 AM EST
    as my local go to spots are Sunken Meadow State Park or town/county parks or NYC parks...where the garbage pails are over-flowing on the regular, with the exception of Central Park, Bloomberg's Baby.  

    Parent
    Then, why did you speak (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Towanda on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 11:06:11 AM EST
    about national parks?

    Parent
    Because I am a citizen and a taxpayer... (none / 0) (#77)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 11:11:52 AM EST
    and I don't think it's right to deny those whose local park is a national park, or deny those who planned a well-earned vacation to a national park or  monument.  Or foreign tourists who perhaps travelled over oceans to enjoy the best of America.

    I make use of the state/county/town/city parks that close at dusk after dusk on occasion.  I don't think the government has the right to close such things like oceans, green spaces, works of outdoor art.  I'm weird like that.

    Parent

    I can tell that you (none / 0) (#169)
    by Towanda on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 06:44:53 PM EST
    do not use national parks, if you think they're like local parks.  They're not for wandering in to sit a while -- unless your local park charges you?

    Parent
    State Park... (none / 0) (#180)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 05:54:44 AM EST
    charges you an admittance fee...I find it somewhat offensive with the state taxes we pay, but cough it up cuz the park is so nice for nature walking and chilling. Local town parks are free, as it should be.

    I'm not a Republican...I don't have to be affected personally to give a sh*t.  Though on a somewhat personal note my niece's school trip to the National Preserve on Fire Island was cancelled due to the shutdown.  Hopefully they can reschedule...it's good for the kids to learn to appreciate and respect our natural treasures.  I refuse to believe there was no way to keep our parks open when we find a way to keep all the dirty open.  It's a reflection of our totally out of whack values imo.

    Parent

    The concerns are legitimate... (none / 0) (#55)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:46:52 AM EST
    I just find the argument for remaining open or civil disobedient use in a respectful manner more persuasive and righteous.  

    Goes without saying if you're going to visit the parks and monuments during the shutdown, you hike out with your trash and must realize you're using the park at your own risk.

    Parent

    Everglades National Park (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by fishcamp on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 11:36:33 AM EST
    could open today and if I'm already over there fishing  I could go from illegal to legal, in theory.  The Park Rangers never rescue stranded boaters or even check them in the huge water areas of the Park.  The Sheriff's Dept. and FWC (Florida Wildlife Control), Coast Guard and Homeland Security seem to have more boats on the water than the recreational boaters.  Of course it's lobster and stone crab season so those are the guys that need to be watched.  They also are the ones that find the most bales.  Bales are on the Atlantic Ocean side and not in the Park.  So they say.

    Parent
    From the link (none / 0) (#57)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:50:53 AM EST
    Ah, yes, the fine line between civil disobedience and throwing a temper tantrum when you don't get what you want.  Oh, wait--that line isn't fine at all!


    Parent
    Please... (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:54:18 AM EST
    the only temper tantrum I see is in Congress.  We're supposed to surrender our right to use of public lands because of those sh*theads?  You're bugging.

    Parent
    Lowest common denominator, KDOG. (none / 0) (#51)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:38:23 AM EST
    None of us is to be trusted any more than the basest piece of s***.

    As for the rangers, they went south when they started strutting around with guns.


    Parent

    The obvious question is... (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 10:08:53 AM EST
    if there is a skeleton crew to fine and/or arrest us, why isn't the skeleton crew emptying the garbage pails instead?  Ya know, something productive.  Honest work.

    Parent
    Probably because those garbage pails (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by Yman on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 10:44:30 AM EST
    ... in addition to being merely one of the functions performed by the rangers, are spread over more than 100,000 square miles, and a skeleton crew (by definition) can't do it all.

    I get you don't like enforcement of laws, but it's a legitimate function.

    Parent

    Indeed they can't do it all... (none / 0) (#75)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 10:51:26 AM EST
    I just find it very telling what they've been directed to do with that skeleton crew.  Telling and all too typical.

    If a public space is too big for sanitation, stands to reason it's too big to police.  Send everybody home to wait on backpay then.

    Parent

    What have they been directed to do? (none / 0) (#78)
    by Yman on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 11:19:44 AM EST
    I just find it very telling what they've been directed to do with that skeleton crew.  Telling and all too typical.

    It's not like closing the park is all they're doing.

    If a public space is too big for sanitation, stands to reason it's too big to police.  Send everybody home to wait on backpay then.

    Not really.  You can eliminate much of the problems that would arise simply by closing gates/barricades and posting rangers at entrances to let everyone know about the closure and to prevent entry.  You can't do that once people are already in the parks.  If you send everyone home, the amount of trash, safety problems and vandalism in parks that are left unstaffed would be far greater than it already is.  Did you see what happened in Minnesota when they shutdown their government?  Vandalism at dozens of state park sites after just one week.

    Parent

    Forgot the link (none / 0) (#79)
    by Yman on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 11:22:30 AM EST
    Ru-Roh... (none / 0) (#84)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 11:39:11 AM EST
    the contingency plan violates their mandate.

    "preserve unimpaired the natural and cultural resources and values of the national park system for the enjoyment, education, and inspiration of this and future generations."

    Unless you find barricades, summonses, and/or handcuffs enjoyable, educational, and inspirational.

    I hear ya about the idiots who would take advantage of a severely under-staffed park to cause trouble, I don't have a problem with the skeleton crew policing vandalism, just a problem with denying legitimate use of what rightfully belongs to each and every one of us.  What belongs to Mother Nature.

    Parent

    It's not remotely a violation (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by Yman on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 12:02:30 PM EST
    To the contrary, preserving those resources requires them to close the parks when they can't have rangers there doing their jobs.

    I have no idea who's being "handcuffed", but I find barricades and summonses a necessary and legitimate function if you have people who decide they want to make their own laws.

    I don't have a problem with the skeleton crew policing vandalism, just a problem with denying legitimate use of what rightfully belongs to each and every one of us.  What belongs to Mother Nature.

    The problem is there aren't enough rangers to prevent vandalism when they are fully staffed.  They're definitely aren't enough when they're operating on a skeleton crew, let alone trying to perform all the other functions they have.

    Sorry, Kdog - because something is public property doesn't give someone the right to use it whenever and however they'd like.

    Parent

    Not whenever/however they like... (none / 0) (#106)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 01:02:57 PM EST
    but we have the right to use public space as intended.

    I suppose it's out of the question to reassign law enforcement or government personnel that aren't furloughed to work the parks...like say DEA agents.  

    Our respective opposition/support of this decision is duly noted at this point...agree to disagree my friend.  I think there is a shred of truth to the complaints that there is the whiff of spite in what is subject to shutdown and what ain't.

    Parent

    Consider this, kdog. (none / 0) (#131)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 02:56:59 PM EST
    kdog: "Not whenever/however they like but we have the right to use public space as intended."

    I suppose that libertarianism probably works great out there in some parallel universe, where everyone is thoughtful, respectful, ethical and trustworthy. But I think you'd have to concede that not everyone in this country would behave as responsibly as most of us here at TL would.

    Given the number of people out there who believe that laws and rules somehow don't ever apply to them, the idea that we could just leave the national parks and monuments open to the public without adequate staffing and law enforcement is simply naïve, and further it's asking for trouble and grief.

    If you don't shut down Yellowstone and Grand Teton National Parks in the absence of staff and law enforcement, I'd lay better than even odds that we'd see some neighboring ranchers with rifles entering those parks to start clearing them of "threatening" wolves and other apex predators, probably within days. Generally, they've never warmed to the idea of national parks in their midst, and view them as little more than places of refuge for the enemy.

    In Sequoia and Redwood National Parks and Muir Woods National Monument in California, yahoos with chain saws would soon be all over our national treasures, harvesting them for personal profit. If the memorials along our National Mall in D.C. aren't closed to the public, vandals and looters would eventually render them all but unrecognizable.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    otoh... (none / 0) (#135)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 03:19:25 PM EST
    look at the annual Burning Man festival...where thousands gather annually with little to no law enforcement presence or rules of any kind, everybody gets along and they leave their place in the desert spotless.

    Given the chance, people can and will surprise you.  But when you go from suffocated by rules to no rules, yeah bad actors will take advantage.  Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy kind of thing perhaps.

    "...all it takes to harden a man's heart is a system of justice."

    - Gregory David Roberts

    Parent

    is a few dipsh*ts who act in a completely selfish manner and ruin something for everyone else."

    Sarcastic Unnamed One

    Parent

    You're talking about... (none / 0) (#139)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 03:41:40 PM EST
    Congress I take it?  We passed a constutional amendment banning any further sessions of Congress? Even I might have to support that one bro;)

    Parent
    There's more than simple vandalism, kdog (5.00 / 4) (#148)
    by shoephone on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 04:09:52 PM EST
    There have been cases over the years of people stealing trees from the parks. If you believe the park resources belong to all of us, then those stealing your resources should bother you. It certainly bothers me, because I use the national, state and city parks on a regular basis. Those thieves stealing from us. They are committing an environmental crime.

    It's one thing to say the parks "belong" to all of us. It's more to the point that, in exchange for that "ownership" of parks,  we are all stewards of the parks as well.

    Parent

    Also poaching (5.00 / 4) (#153)
    by sj on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 04:46:52 PM EST
    and wildfires.

    Parent
    For sure... (none / 0) (#181)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 06:04:08 AM EST
    but it's hard to be a citizen steward of these treasures when you're not allowed in shoephone...in a shutdown situation with a skeleton crew, we the good people could be of greater public service.  Ya don't need a badge to help prevent logging...environmentalist groups have shown us that.

    Parent
    But kdog, being a steward (5.00 / 4) (#189)
    by shoephone on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 11:50:18 AM EST
    means both taking care while we are on the premises, also providing the tax dollars for the park rangers to be our eyes and ears when we aren't there. That's their job. If there aren't enough of them to do the job of preserving the places, anything can happen (and usually does). That's the deal we make for funding government: we pay our taxes, and the employees do these jobs. I have a friend who's been a park ranger at one of our finest national parks, and these folks are to be commended and respected for what they do for us and the environment.

    The reason the state parks don't get adequately funded, and that those of us who use them need to make up the difference with use fees (like I do, and I don't at all mind the $30 per year), is because the rich are not paying their fair share. It's really that simple. In Washington State, we have no income tax, but we do have a charlatan named Tim Eyman who promotes anti-property tax ballot initiatives every two years, as well as a whole bunch of other nonsense initiatives. He and the idiots who vote for his initiatives have done a lot of damage to our state funding. And most of the time, even after some of these initiatives pass, the state supreme court has declared them unconstitutional (and believe me, they are blatantly unconstitutional).

    You are placing the blame on the wrong people.

    Parent

    Agree agree agree... (none / 0) (#198)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 01:30:51 PM EST
    I don't blame and have never blamed the National Park Service...I blame Congress and (cue broken record) our societies lack of priorities as evidenced by the budgets passed by our elected representation, and the decisions of what stays open and what shuts down during a shutdown.I'm not the extremist libertarian I sometimes may appear to be...I'm a huge supporter of "big government" preservation efforts and our National Parks.  Best thing Teddy R. ever did.

    Parent
    Wow (1.00 / 6) (#100)
    by Mikado Cat on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 12:40:39 PM EST
    A fluff piece on how we are protected from hurting ourselves while looking at war memorials, and how it was real smart to close parks that pay for themselves via admission charges while continuing to pay all the employees to not work and keep people out.

    The Barrycades need to be taken down.

    Parent

    Speaking of fluff... (5.00 / 4) (#103)
    by shoephone on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 12:54:23 PM EST
    that's about all your stupid, trollish comments amount to. Fluffing in the wind. Fluffing your Tea Partiers. Keep on fluffin'.

    Parent
    "keep on fluffin" (5.00 / 2) (#113)
    by Amiss on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 01:30:30 PM EST
    Is a good statement. Kudos to you.

    Parent
    ROTFLMAO! (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 05:16:20 PM EST
    I'm wondering if Mikado even knows what "fluffing" means.

    Parent
    Do we want to know how you know? (5.00 / 2) (#167)
    by Anne on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 06:06:43 PM EST
    Uhhh...no, I don't think so.

    Parent
    Well, I should certainly hope not! (none / 0) (#179)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 05:45:19 AM EST
    I'm sorry, Anne, but I'm afraid that this will just have to remain one of life's unspoken but enduring mysteries.

    Please join us tomorrow, boys and girls, as Anne and I ponder the various scenarios by which certain fine and upstanding Florida school administrators, who tried -- and failed -- to fire Shawn Loftis for moral turpitude, could have possibly learned about that teacher's gay porn star past in the first place.

    Aloha. ;-D

    Parent

    Wow (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by Yman on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 12:57:20 PM EST
    The Barrycades need to be taken down.

    A slogan from your fellow wingnuts.

    I guess if you can't actually form a coherent argument, just call informed articles "fluff pieces" and throw out a silly, wingnut phrase.

    Go with what ya got ...

    Parent

    Which parks are those? (5.00 / 3) (#114)
    by Yman on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 01:34:50 PM EST
    it was real smart to close parks that pay for themselves via admission charges

    Given that the National Park Service's budget is 2.6 billion (2011), and their entrance fees generate around 173 million, I'm curious as to which of those parks "pay for themselves".

    Parent

    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 158 (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Dadler on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:02:42 AM EST
    The Republican offensive coordinator is ghost of Jim Jones. (link)

    Volume 157

    Volume 156

    Happy small hill in the middle of the week day. I have housewife duties for the next hour, getting my 13 year-old out of bed, fed and off to school, then it's try to get my current little proj a little close to completion (well, it's not so little, and not so close really either ;-).

    May today be the day these idiots get something done in D.C., but I ain't holding my breath.

    Peace.

    They will have a deal (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:34:25 AM EST
    And I predict it will be announced around 7-8 pm Eastern time - "just under the deadline".

    Of course, this "deal" will be something that will just kick the can down the road and like, last year, we will either spend the holiday week talking about this again, or they may be able to push this off until the end of January.

    All this hand-wringing will be going on again within months, but we will have a deal by the end of the day.

    Why venture your prediction (none / 0) (#56)
    by CoralGables on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:48:26 AM EST
    followed by less than substantive blather when you can watch or read the news and see the exact dates in the pending deal?

    Parent
    Maybe (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:53:37 AM EST
    because of all the pearl-clutching here.

    Instead, I can have time treat myself with more of your prattle.

    Parent

    I liked most of your post, (none / 0) (#120)
    by Amiss on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 02:09:32 PM EST
    but I really, really wish we had a way to return to our own posts and correct errors. Your comment calling someone's words "prattle" is just unnecessary,IMHO only.
    I feel we(on both sides of the issues have reached our boiling points) on these issues.
    For instance, I feel I am in deep Ca-Ca because of the way the Repubs have forced us to handle things. I believe most would believe that being over half million dollars in medical debt,unable to work, would be devastating to most here, and it would not be rude to post your feelings about things.
    I will quit because I am sure I have said too much already.
    Take Care.

    Parent
    This is becoming much less about (5.00 / 3) (#133)
    by Anne on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 03:01:06 PM EST
    Republicans v. Democrats and much more about the haves v. the have-nots.

    But to your point about Republicans "forcing" us to do things, I have to take issue.  Oh, maybe they twisted an arm or two, or had a little baby fit, but to a large degree, Democrats participated in and enabled the actions that got us here.

    This idea that somehow, Democrats are always powerless to push back or have no choice is just utter crap, and I'm beyond tired of people making excuses for them.

    I know you've had serious health issues, and I think it's abominable that in order to get well, you have to put yourself in an untenable financial situation.  No one should have to choose between being dead and dead broke.  But, news flash - I don't think the ACA is going to solve that problem for the people who really need significant care, not from what I'm reading and learning.

    And it pi$$es me off that this is the plan that Democrats in Congress fought for, with the help of all their good friends in the insurance and pharmaceutical industries, many of who left the private sector to work on the staffs of members of Congress.

    Parent

    Really (5.00 / 2) (#164)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 05:41:37 PM EST
    in a lot of ways it goes past haves and have nots. It goes to basic human dignity. We as a society have decided that certain people are not worthy of basic human dignity and that's not always haves vs. have nots because there are plenty of have nots that buy into this belief system. Well, unless it's a zygote then it gets all the human dignity possible. So completely stupid.

    Parent
    Senate Reaches Deal... (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 12:00:16 PM EST
    ...to end shutdown and avoid default.

    Their plan was expected to reinstate government spending through mid-January and extend the debt limit through early February. Their plan also called for lawmakers to work toward agreement on an overarching budget by Dec. 13, as well as stricter income verification for subsidies under the Affordable Care Act.

    House aides suggested that the House could work to bring up an agreement as blessed by the Senate leadership, which House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, would pass with both Democratic and Republican votes.

    I hope this passes.

    Atrios really is (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by sj on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 12:12:55 PM EST
    the master of the pithy comment:
    Cunning Plans

    Maybe next time the opening offer won't be "hey, how about we give you everything you want."

    by Atrios at 12:27
    105 Comments



    And not a voice off real imagination... (4.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Dadler on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 06:48:58 PM EST
    ...on either side. The Repubs are just raving insane, scared of anything that smacks of change, and they just act like bullies in these situations, and thus they need to get punched in the metaphorical face. But they never do. And whatever passes for the Dems in this country can't even muster the brains to mount a multi-media battle that you don't need networks for anymore. Sigh, sigh, sigh...

    Like others have said, this is what you get believing you are somehow magically going to turn people who wouldn't piss on you if your heart were on fire into political compatriots who will compromise with you for the good of the nation. What a dope.

    Can't we at least hire Steven Colbert to advise Obama on rhetorical strategy?

    The (1.00 / 2) (#101)
    by Mikado Cat on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 12:45:57 PM EST
    Important thing is that union's get waivers from Obamacare, like congressional aides etc., if only we could all get waivers.

    Crazy wingers reporting Obamacare web work done without bidding by NSA contractor. Gotta put the data mining back door in somehow, good thing we can trust them.

    Don't get upset by winger lies (none / 0) (#109)
    by Yman on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 01:11:21 PM EST
    Important thing is that union's get waivers from Obamacare, like congressional aides etc., if only we could all get waivers.

    Factchecking Pernicious Obamacare Claims - Factcheck

    Unions don't have to comply with Obamacare, says Crossroads GPS - Politifact

    Crazy wingers reporting Obamacare web work done without bidding by NSA contractor. Gotta put the data mining back door in somehow, good thing we can trust them.

    Why would you care about what "crazy wingers" are reporting?  They report all kinds of baseless theories as fact.  Unless, of course, you're trying to suggest it's true.

    Parent

    I was just recalling how in late 2009(?), (none / 0) (#1)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 06:27:34 PM EST
    nt he lead-up to The Deal, the idea of letting the Bush tax cuts expire was talked about as so economically ruinous and politically impossible that it could not be mentioned in polite society, or at least on Hardball, without provoking gasps and giving Peggy Noonan the vapors.

    Now we are seriously entertaining the notion of defaulting on our debt. I think it is time for a reprise of BTDs 'The Deal' post. This is what was wrought by taking lunatics seriously.

    Yeah (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 06:38:12 PM EST
    I have made the point that Obama brought a lot of this on by himself by playing kumbaya with these nuts and giving them mouth to mouth resuscitation.

    Parent
    Isn't it Tuesday? (none / 0) (#4)
    by CoralGables on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 06:39:17 PM EST
    Reid & McConnell back to work putting together the final deal after losing a day expecting Boehner to have any control over the crazy caucus.

    I feel like I'm stuck in one of my (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Anne on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 08:26:35 PM EST
    least favorite movies: Groundhog Day...

    Monday?  Tuesday?  Can hardly tell the difference: Boehner and the crackpot GOP are doing whatever it is they do, the Dems are talking out of both sides of their mouths (we won't give in, but if we do, entitlements are at the top of the list!).

    More of the same sh!t, possibly different day.

    Parent

    Ooops (none / 0) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 07:37:40 PM EST
    Why are we doomed? (none / 0) (#11)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 08:05:56 PM EST
    I offer Exhibit A, evidence of cognitive dissonance on a national scale.

    As the French lawyer and diplomat Joseph-Marie, Comte de Maistre (1753-1821) once observed, "Toute nation a le gouvernement qu'elle mérite." ("Every nation gets the government it deserves.") And given this present level of obliviousness and detachment from reality, nobody deserves this more than those Americans who clearly cherish their right to be both stupid and ignorant.

    This obviously presents a problem for the rest of us who find ourselves caught up in this mess as unwilling passengers on the political equivalent of Mr. Toad's Wild Ride.

    Incidentally, BTD, since it's 11:03 a.m. Wednesday out here on Guam, I think that means it's actually Tuesday over there on the U.S. eastern seaboard. Are you working too hard and losing track of the days?
    ;-D

    Aloha.

    So will this "wild ride" end as an... (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by gbrbsb on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:05:00 AM EST
    "all's well that ends well" like in the book; Toad was sentenced to 20 years for his recklessness and although he managed to escape (aided by the goaler's daughter who dressed him as a washer woman) and went on to wreck further havoc on the community, in the end he did at least realise the error of his ways and with the help of his true friends Ratty, Mole and Badger, manage to eject the weasels, stoats and ferrets overrunning the house to end up dedicating his remaining years to compensating all those he had harmed and living a happily ever after with his three hairy friends... ; - )

    Parent
    "The Wind in the Willows" was ... (none / 0) (#163)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 05:35:47 PM EST
    ... always one of my favorite stories, and also one of my favorite Disney cartoons.

    And while "Mr. Toad's Wild Ride" was also one of my favorite rides at Disneyland, I remember that the very first time my cousin and I were on it when we were both all of four years old, its palpable undertone of menace and danger thoroughly freaked us out to the point of inducing tears.

    It's definitely not a tale for very young children.

    Finally, they're ready to board my flight back home, nearly two hours late. Gotta go.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    You fixed it. (none / 0) (#12)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 08:07:14 PM EST
    Never mind.

    Parent
    You're a day ahead? (none / 0) (#13)
    by rdandrea on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 08:09:29 PM EST
    Can you tell me what Powerball numbers came out?

    Parent
    Yes -- 6, 6, and 6. (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 08:52:53 PM EST
    Surely, it's a sign of the forthcoming apocalypse.

    Tomorrow morning, I depart at 6:30 a.m. Thursday morning and return to Honolulu at 6:00 p.m. Wednesday evening. It's a 7.5-hour flight. I can't wait to get out of here and back home.

    ;-D

    Parent

    And here it is, tomorrow morning. (none / 0) (#141)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 03:48:38 PM EST
    I'm about to board my plane so I get home to Honolulu last night.

    Talk 2 U all later. Aloha.

    Parent

    Maybe Boehner is too busy eyeing real estate (none / 0) (#18)
    by shoephone on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 08:59:20 PM EST
    in the Carribean to care about either his speakership, his seat, or the country, for that matter.

    But at least the GOP is finally going down, down, down. I'm sure the goons on CNN will point to their countdown clock and pontificate some more about who's winning.

    In the meantime, I wonder what Janet Yellen is doing tonight. Other than drinking shots to buck herself up for the deluge.

    Me, I'm just passing the time in California, watching the Dodgers possible blow it tonight.

    And I sincerely (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Zorba on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 09:36:22 PM EST
    hope that the Dodgers do blow it tonight.     ;-)

    Parent
    Now, that's just mean (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by shoephone on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 02:18:22 AM EST
    We much maligned Dodger fans are hurting. The least you could do is send us some spanakopita, for solace!

    Parent
    Well your Dodgers (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by Zorba on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 08:12:42 PM EST
    won this afternoon.  Boo, hiss!
    No spanakopita for you.  Or pastitsio.  Or moussaka.  Or souvlaki.  Or tzatziki sauce.  Or baklava.      ;-)

    Parent
    Ouzo? (none / 0) (#172)
    by Edger on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 08:35:00 PM EST
    hic


    Parent
    Not ouzo (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by Zorba on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 08:50:24 PM EST
    Metaxa!  
    Especially the Metaxa Grande Fine.  Excellent sipping brandy.

    Parent
    Of course! (none / 0) (#176)
    by Edger on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:12:37 PM EST
    I remember many great nights with Metaxa in my prime! Sort of. Blurrily! Lol ;-)

    Parent
    Yeah, well they nearly lost it in the 9th, (none / 0) (#177)
    by shoephone on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:24:47 PM EST
    giving up two runs. Jeez. They're making me crazy.

    I guess I'll just have to by myself dinner... And it won't be Greek! ;-)

    Parent

    Zorba (none / 0) (#25)
    by cpresley on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 10:26:16 PM EST
    The Dodgers did blow it. They lost 4-2.

    Parent
    Hurray! (none / 0) (#28)
    by Zorba on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 11:05:50 PM EST
    Go, Cards!

    Parent
    Before you start counting your chickens, ... (none / 0) (#32)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 02:26:09 AM EST
    ... Mme. Zorba, I do hope you remember what happened to the Cardinals the last time they led the NCLS, three games to one.

    As the immortalacious Yogi Berra once quipped about baseball, "It ain't over, 'til it's over."

    Aloha.

    Parent

    It's true (none / 0) (#53)
    by Zorba on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:43:15 AM EST
    Anything can happen in baseball.  That's one of the reasons I like it so much.    ;-)

    Parent
    As a former player, I concur. (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 03:37:19 PM EST
    You can never take anything for granted in baseball, and like you said, that's why we love it.

    Who'd have thought in September 2007 that the Colorado Rockies would catch fire and win 15 of their last 16 regular season games to make the National League playoffs as a wild card, and then easily sweep both the Phillies and the Diamondbacks to win the pennant?

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#142)
    by Zorba on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 03:51:15 PM EST
    You can look at all the statistics and sabremetric analysis that you want, but any individual game can come down to, for example, the one inch between a foul ball and a good hit that drives in the winning run.    ;-)

    Parent
    Absolutely. (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 04:09:34 PM EST
    After all, last night was the 25th anniversary of one of the great moments in Dodgers lore and arguably one of most famous home runs in baseball history -- the magical two-run walk-off which the painfully hobbled Kirk Gibson launched off Oakland's ace closer Dennis Eckersley to win Game 1 of the 1988 World Series.

    To this day, I still don't know how that ball managed to find its way into the right field bleachers in Dodger Stadium, especially after such an anemic-looking swing.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    GOP pulls out of the deal (none / 0) (#21)
    by Anne on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 09:35:00 PM EST
    From The Guardian:

    Republicans in the House of Representatives pushed the US economy to the brink on Tuesday night when they turned against a proposal by their party leadership that would have reopened the government and lifted the debt ceiling, just over 24 hours before the country's borrowing limit expires.

    The failure by John Boehner, the House speaker, to persuade elements within his own Republican caucus to back a bill designed to placate conservatives underscored the severity of the political crisis facing Washington.

    Boehner's bill, which was drafted after Tea Party-backed members of the House voiced their opposition to a deal forged between Democrats and Republicans in the Senate, had been expected to be put to a vote on Tuesday night. But it was pulled at the last minute after the House GOP leadership realised that the bill, opposed by Democrats, did not even have the support of sufficient Republicans to pass.

    [snip]

    The Republican leadership came up with various versions of the legislation through the day as they tried to settle on a formula that would satisfy conservatives. Boehner acceded to rightwing demands to drop the medical device tax provision, which was seen as benefiting only health equipment manufacturers, and retained the proposal to cut healthcare subsidies from congressional and White House staff, which amounted to an $18,000-a-year pay cut for most employees. The resolution got as far as being published on the House rules committee website.

    But the plan collapsed in the face of sustained conservative opposition. Heritage Action, a conservative group that holds Republican candidates accountable to Tea Party-backed causes, announced that it would mark down Republicans who voted in favour of the resolution. Support from House Republicans melted away and Boehner postponed the vote.

    There are no words.

    Seriously ? (5.00 / 3) (#63)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:57:54 AM EST
    Heritage Action, a conservative group that holds Republican candidates accountable to Tea Party-backed causes, announced that it would mark down Republicans who voted in favor of the resolution.

    They are going to take US in default because getting marked down by Heritage Action is a worse alternative that defaulting on our debt.

    Conservatives, this is what your votes are getting you, politicians who are running the country off the economic cliff. a second time in a decade, because they are scared of the Rush Limbaughs and Fox News Anchors cancerous rantings.

    This proves what everyone else already knew, the republicans refuse to deal and they are beholden to lunatics and ideologues.

    Parent

    At least some government (none / 0) (#24)
    by Edger on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 10:09:03 PM EST
    workers are defying the shutdown.

    E.F.F.
    The Government Shutdown is Great News For Those Who Don't Want NSA Accountability

    Before the shutdown, there were two allegedly "independent" investigations into NSA spying activities taking place--one through the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and one through the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board (PCLOB). We have heavily criticized these committees for their close ties to the White House and DNI, the same bodies in charge of the NSA, but certainly some investigation is better than nothing.

    Now it seems both unpaid boards will be scaling back or shutting down operations even though they are not required to by the shutdown.

    The DNI "review group," has decided to shutdown operations because its underlying staff is furloughed. According to an unnamed source in Politico, the five-member panel was still set to meet this week until one of its members--former CIA deputy director Michael Morrell--declined to participate. (Politico needed a source to tell them when the review group was meeting because the DNI exempted the group from US transparency rules that state these types of groups must tell the public when they are meeting.)

    Morrell curiously said his job in providing oversight is "a lot less important" than work being done by intelligence workers who are furloughed. Morrell explained, "I simply thought that it was inappropriate for our group to continue working while the vast majority of the men and women of the intelligence community are being forced to remain off the job."  Not off the job: the NSA employees conducting surveillance of US phone records, US internet traffic, and other internet activity of people who are considered 51% foreign.

    While spying continues, the NSA's Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) office has been completely shuttered. The office posted a message on its website saying that it would not be processing any FOIA requests during the shutdown. This is especially troubling given that the NSA's FOIA caseload has increased a remarkable 1054% since the Edward Snowden stories started breaking in June.



    Depending on how much obstruction there is (none / 0) (#26)
    by CoralGables on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 10:33:20 PM EST
    from Cruz and Lee, the CR/Debt Limit should pass the Senate somewhere between tomorrow and Saturday.

    Huffpo is reporting (none / 0) (#27)
    by MKS on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 11:03:57 PM EST
    that Boehner will send a "message" to Reid which is a formal procedure that allows him to skip one cloture vote and to reduce to 30 hours the delay in getting a final vote in the Senate should Cruz or Lee filibuster.

    Parent
    Were all the (none / 0) (#39)
    by Edger on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:01:53 AM EST
    "closed due to government shutdown" signs all over national parks, monuments, offices, etc. printed by shutdown government printers? Or ordered from contract printers by shutdown government procurement offices?

    Or maybe (none / 0) (#46)
    by Edger on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:25:24 AM EST
    they're all 17 year old signs?

    Parent
    Boehner tentatively agrees (none / 0) (#61)
    by CoralGables on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:57:17 AM EST
    to put Senate deal to a vote in the House, before the Senate votes, to speed up the procedural process.

    More kicking the can than I hoped for (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 10:42:22 AM EST
    January is going to come pretty fast.

    The Senate deal lifts the debt ceiling through Feb. 7, re-opens the shuttered government through Jan. 15 and sets up bicameral budget conference tasked with sending policy recommendations by Dec. 13. It will include a provision to enforce a part of Obamacare where subsidy recipients have to verify their income eligibility first. It won't include a previously considered plan to delay a reinsurance tax under the health care law.

    I guess the conference in December is supposed to avoid the brinksmanship in January. Maybe the House Tea Party has been sufficiently chastised this time. But I always live in fear of the Grand Bargain.

    Parent

    The kick-the-can-congress (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by shoephone on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 12:59:49 PM EST
    is all we've had since Obama took the White House. And, considering how he folded like a lawn chair in Dec 2011, they've got no reason to stop their games now.

    Parent
    Mitch McConnell (none / 0) (#80)
    by vicndabx on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 11:26:39 AM EST
    Did he actually sound statesman-like on the Senate floor?

    WTF??!!

    Pimp my 1991 Mazda? (none / 0) (#81)
    by Yman on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 11:31:01 AM EST
    Redskins running back Alfred Morris has his "Bentley" (aka 1991 Mazda 626 sedan) completely refurbished from top to bottom.

    "This is my baby, man," Morris told a group of reporters. "It's more than just a car. I didn't grow up with a lot. This helps me remember where I come from and where I'm going."

    Don't know anything else about him, but I'm a fan, now.

    Link With Pics (none / 0) (#86)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 11:53:49 AM EST
    That is so fricken cool, they restored it to factory original, mostly, looks brand new.  LINK

    A total of 275 man hours of labor and more than 450 new parts were involved in the refurbishment. In addition to the basics -- an overhauled engine, new brakes, exhaust system - the car had some added features not typical of a 1991 Mazda 626. Leather interior, new sound system, and back-up camera were among the options Morris now has at his disposal.


    Parent
    My husband has a 1991 Toyota (none / 0) (#87)
    by Anne on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 11:59:10 AM EST
    Camry All-Trac - looks a lot like the Mazda.

    Parent
    Whoops (none / 0) (#82)
    by Yman on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 11:31:49 AM EST
    Forgot the link again.

    Am I missing something here? The logic (none / 0) (#90)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 12:05:16 PM EST
    escapes me.

    NYT:

    By Tuesday afternoon, House Republican leaders were back with a new proposal to finance the government through Dec. 15, extend the debt ceiling into February and deprive not only lawmakers but all their staff members of employer assistance to buy their health care. By extending that provision to staff members, Republican leaders hoped to appeal to the party's far-right flank, but the proposal angered more moderate Republicans and was not enough for the conservative hard core.


    Have you found logic (5.00 / 3) (#91)
    by sj on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 12:08:44 PM EST
    in any of the GOP's antics? If so, the same logic applies here.

    Parent
    Once they fell off the deep end (none / 0) (#95)
    by CoralGables on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 12:16:10 PM EST
    more strangeness ensued.

    In their loss of touch with reality, it was to get Dems to vote to maintain subsidies to Government employees for health care benefits. Those benefits, just like in many jobs, are already part of their benefits package.

    Supposedly it was a vote the GOP planned to try and use against their Dem opponents next November...after all the GOP staff quit in protest of a pay-cut hoisted upon them by their own GOP bosses.

    Strange indeed, but it isn't part of the bill going forward.

    Parent

    And Ted Cruz is being thrown under (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Anne on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 12:21:58 PM EST
    the bus.

    From The Hill:

    Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) is to blame for the fiscal fiasco on Capitol Hill, according to a source close to Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio).

    [snip]

    Asked how Boehner gets out of this mess, a GOP lawmaker close to Boehner responded, "With a clear, consistent history of what actually happened ... to remind everybody we had a grand strategy until Cruz played the stupid card."

    Ted Cruz's light is definitely sputtering.

    Parent

    And yet (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by CoralGables on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 12:29:22 PM EST
    while McConnell is speaking on the Senate floor, Cruz decides to hold his own press conference right outside thereby giving McConnell the proverbial finger.

    Cruz will relish in the added attention, and he's bidding for a pay raise with a future at Fox as the intelligent Sarah Palin.

    btw, the Houston Chronicle did their own takedown of Cruz this morning by essentially reneging on their endorsement of him from 2012.

    Parent

    Putting the Blame... (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 12:35:14 PM EST
    ...squarely on the shoulders of the person at fault is hardly throwing them under the bus, it's acknowledging reality, something the GOP is very unfamiliar with.

    Fear not, at this rate, Cruz will look like a moderate in a couple years.  Ryan is certainly looking a little more sane after Cruz too the stage.

    Parent

    It's kind of unusual for the GOP to (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Anne on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 12:39:36 PM EST
    so quickly turn on one of their own, don't you think?

    That's really what stood out for me.

    Parent

    Well, someone in the GOP had to be ... (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 03:44:05 PM EST
    ... the scapegoat for this fiasco. Who better than the pompous and self-promoting Mr. Cruz? Other than the most ardent of far-right true believers, I don't believe anybody really likes him.

    Parent
    Unheard Of... (none / 0) (#110)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 01:17:14 PM EST
    ...but then again, anonymous people 'close to Boehner' is hardly the GOP, and if it was an aid, they might not be as 'principled' after nearly getting screwed out of a subsidy by the GOP.

    Let's hope some disgruntled aids/staffers decide to start grinding axes.

    Parent

    Wow (5.00 / 2) (#161)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 05:30:36 PM EST
    I actually agree with the GOPer who said Cruz played the stupid card. LOL.

    Parent
    His light is shining bright (none / 0) (#102)
    by Jack203 on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 12:50:12 PM EST
    His "light" has never been brighter with the lunatics.

    He never had a "light" and has been a pit of darkness with rational people.

    Parent

    Light (none / 0) (#112)
    by vicndabx on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 01:24:19 PM EST
    I am reminded of that scene towards the end of Poltergeist when all the ghosts are compelled to go into the light and leave this world behind.

    all are welcome!  aaaalll are welcome!

    let's hope they follow him to the ineffectual fringe where they belong.

    Parent

    When (none / 0) (#117)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 01:37:09 PM EST
    Ted Cruz's conservative hometown newspaper says, "Oops, we made a mistake in endorsing him a year ago", you know the light is fading.

    One reason we particularly believe that [Kay Bailey] Hutchison would make a difference in these hectic days is that if she had kept her seat, Cruz would not be in the Senate.

    When we endorsed Ted Cruz in last November's general election, we did so with many reservations and at least one specific recommendation - that he follow Hutchison's example in his conduct as a senator.

    Obviously, he has not done so. Cruz has been part of the problem in specific situations where Hutchison would have been part of the solution.

    We feel certain she would have worked shoulder to shoulder with Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, in crafting a workable solution that likely would have avoided the government shutdown altogether.

    But we'll never know.



    Parent
    The Houston Chronicle (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by Jack203 on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 07:22:27 PM EST
    There is a big difference between moderate/sane republicans and Ted Cruz's teapartiers.

    I would like nothing better than the teapartiers to be annihilated politically, but I would not count them out.  A scolding from the Houston Chronicle that in the same article is heaping praise on a moderate blue state Republican will mean nothing to them

    The crazy party has just begun for them. We've got a few months until its "deja vu all over again".

    Parent

    Except... (none / 0) (#119)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 02:03:14 PM EST
    ...as the article mentioned, the person who Cruz took the seat from, David Dewhurst, thinks going off the grid more than Cruz will equal more votes.

    Cruz is done, he might keep the seat, but he will get backed by his party again.

    But there will always be someone even crazier for the idiot T-Bags to vote for.  It's only going to get worse.

    Seems like I remember the Chronicle slamming Cruz last year.  Too busy to find it and you may have even posted it.  Or maybe they just endorsed him over KBH and not over Dewhurst.

    Perry and Dewhurst were fairly moderate until the T-Bags entered the arena.

    Parent

    Then what does that shift make them? (none / 0) (#159)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 05:18:12 PM EST
    Craven opportunists, by my book.

    Parent
    We're now back (none / 0) (#118)
    by CoralGables on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 01:53:25 PM EST
    to the Senate voting before the House does because the GOP Reps want to blame the GOP Senators for the current deal in 2014. The infighting continues.

    How Does That Work... (none / 0) (#121)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 02:12:29 PM EST
    "They are the ones who ensured America didn't go into default."

    I mean really, only a complete idiot thinks they are going to campaign on not compromising and nearly trigger a financial crisis.

    When this is done, I am guessing at election time the GOP is going pull an Iran and pretend this moment in history never happened.

    Parent

    Indeed you are correct (none / 0) (#125)
    by CoralGables on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 02:37:04 PM EST
    I am guessing at election time the GOP is going pull an Iran and pretend this moment in history never happened.

    Rep Raul Labrador (R-ID) said this morning:

    You guys in the media continue to report that what conservatives were asking for was a full repeal of Obamacare, that's absolutely false.


    Parent
    You Would Think... (none / 0) (#128)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 02:47:37 PM EST
    ...they would wait until after the redux in January/February.

    I think we are going to see a lot of GOP drawing a distinction between conservatives and the T-Bags, explaining how they are not one in the same.

    Parent

    Well, you know what they say in Congress... (none / 0) (#174)
    by unitron on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 08:59:59 PM EST
    ...the other party is the opposition--the other house is the enemy.

    Parent
    Forgive my ignorance... (none / 0) (#127)
    by gbrbsb on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 02:44:16 PM EST
    about how governing the US works but did the Republicans actually gain anything with all of this ? Or could it my bias on the ever-so slightly lefter side of US politics that prevents me from seeing their gain ?

    Excellent question (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by sj on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 02:48:56 PM EST
    Anyone?

    Parent
    Yes (5.00 / 4) (#130)
    by CoralGables on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 02:49:53 PM EST
    They gained bad headlines.

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    That they did gain... even over here! (none / 0) (#132)
    by gbrbsb on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 02:57:44 PM EST
    Not Sure I Understand the Question (none / 0) (#134)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 03:08:11 PM EST
    Is someone saying the GOP gained something or are you wondering why did it to begin with.

    They rolled the dice and lost seems to be the theme of the day, but to me, you can't lose if the all you did was agree to fight next week.

    Too funny, I can't remember the GOP ever admitting they lost anything beyond an election.

    "We fought the good fight. We just didn't win,"
    LINK

    I would add the GOP didn't really instigate this, Cruz did and the GOP does what it does best, band together behind whatever idiot is in front of a camera.

    I think all the winners/losers today will be on the other side of the fence come January/February.  The GOP has months to formulate talking points and disseminate mountains of crap before the redux.  Public opinion next time around isn't going to be so lopsided IMO.

    The good news is ACA is off the table, maybe not literally, but by then a lot of the measures and policies will be in use.  No one is going to mess with it once it's functioning IMO, well they won't be demanding a total repeal at least.

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    I'd like to believe that ... (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 03:51:44 PM EST
    ... the GOP would think twice before considering a repeat performance three months hence. But you really never know with these yahoos.

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    Using That Logic... (none / 0) (#149)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 04:10:11 PM EST
    ...would have kept the government from shutting down.  I guess you just have more faith in the GOP than I do.  That was a joke.

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    I haven't had any faith in the GOP ... (none / 0) (#154)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 04:52:04 PM EST
    ... since the Iran-Contra scandal. It's no longer the party of my grandfather. Rather, it's become much more of a far-right radical outlier, whose members are ideologically doctrinaire, disdainful of sound policy development and governance, contemptuous of facts and science, utterly scornful of anyone and everyone who dares to take issue with them, and completely dismissive of the political legitimacy of their opponents.

    Leave in-depth discussions about responsible governance to the "pointy-heady perfessers and intylekchals." To the radical right, politics has become all bread and circuses, 24 / 7 / 365.

    Further, if you really examine their overall history as a party, Republicans haven't initially found themselves on the morally right side of any issue of major importance since the end of the Civil War. What they have shown collectively over the years is a remarkably uncanny knack for political claim-jumping, i.e., taking credit for successful policy directives that were initiated by others.

    Aloha.

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    My question was tongue in cheek... (none / 0) (#178)
    by gbrbsb on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 05:08:54 AM EST
    accepted my knowledge of how your system works is somewhat limited. Certainly after two weeks of tenterhooks even over here in the UK perish the thought this whole debacle was simply a "he who fights and runs away lives to fight another day" exercise !

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    Winners and Losers (none / 0) (#144)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 03:53:21 PM EST
    At least, according to the Chris Cillizza.

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    Given that this was a ... (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 04:15:53 PM EST
    ... thoroughly Beltway-manufactured crisis, and further that the Beltway media circuit all but egged it on as though this was grand theater, I think I'll look for political assessment of the damage from elsewhere, thank you very much.

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    My computer is a Cilizza free zone as well (none / 0) (#183)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 09:59:31 AM EST
    Manufactured crisis, making a game out of people's livlihoods, cheered on my a media like Cilizza and Politico that think they are being neutral by failing to tell the truth.

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    Only my opinion (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by CoralGables on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 10:20:28 AM EST
    but anytime the general public is referring to a news reporter by name, the chances of infotainment punditry increases exponentially as that one time reporter attempts to increase the value of their brand rather than report the news.

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    Disagree (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by sj on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 11:02:00 AM EST
    Sometimes people refer to a journalist by name because they deserve the recognition. For example:

    Seymour Hersh
    Matt Taibbi
    Amy Goodman
    Glenn Greenwald
    Michael Hastings

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    Charlie Savage is another one. (5.00 / 2) (#187)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 11:26:16 AM EST
    He writes for the NYT, but I prefer to give the credit for his good investigative work and writing to him, and not the paper.

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    Chris Hedges does great work (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 03:50:56 PM EST
    but I doubt he'd ever make it into the WMD-Times..

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    And ironically, (none / 0) (#191)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 12:32:18 PM EST
    CG has posted things and named reporters / authors himself, so he's just being hypocritical here.

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    Not really (none / 0) (#192)
    by CoralGables on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 12:49:56 PM EST
    I read no one in particular but may link to it if I see something substantive in my travels.

    I did read Nate Silver when he evaluated elections (who is admittedly a brand and not a reporter) as I enjoy his statistical analysis.

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    I haven't a clue who four of those are (none / 0) (#186)
    by CoralGables on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 11:19:38 AM EST
    so they may be okay.

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    You don't know who they are? (5.00 / 2) (#188)
    by shoephone on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 11:36:43 AM EST
    You must not get Rolling Stone Magazine or Democracy  Now radio down there in Florida.

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    Shoephone you are correct (none / 0) (#193)
    by CoralGables on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 12:52:14 PM EST
    I've never read Rolling Stone and don't know what Democracy Now is.

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    Well, (5.00 / 2) (#195)
    by sj on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 12:54:27 PM EST
    Shoephone you are correct (none / 0) (#193)
    by CoralGables on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 11:52:14 AM MDT

    I've never read Rolling Stone and don't know what Democracy Now is.

    That explains a lot.

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    To be clear (none / 0) (#196)
    by CoralGables on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 12:57:27 PM EST
    that doesn't mean I might not have read an article from either of those two places after finding a link on a subject I googled. I followed a link to the Boston Marathon bombing article in Rolling Stone because I'm a fan of the Boston Marathon, but haven't a clue who wrote it.

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    Understood (none / 0) (#199)
    by sj on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 02:02:42 PM EST
    You may also have seen any one of them on a program, for example, that is/was hosted by Bill Moyers. I guess the sub-text to all of this is that I think it pays to know (or at least have an idea) of the journalistic values and credentials and the lenses through which they view the world.

    I prefer to read and get information from journalists with integrity who also share at least some of my biases.

    Just saying that:

    referring to a news reporter by name, the chances of infotainment punditry increases exponentially
    is being flip. It pays to know who actually is a journalist and who is a pundit.

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    thumbnail highlights on each (5.00 / 3) (#194)
    by sj on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 12:52:38 PM EST
    Seymour Hersh - first exposed the My Lai massacre in Viet Nam; first to report on the torture of detainees at Abu Ghraib. Lots of other stuff in between.

    Matt Taibbi - has been doing yeoman's work on politics/finance for Rolling Stone

    Amy Goodman - Broadcast and investigative reporter, host of Democracy Now!

    Glenn Greenwald - If you don't know, you really haven't been paying attention.

    Michael Hastings - Did the RS expose that led to the Gen. Stanley McChrystal being relieved of command.

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    Ha! Indeed, I do just skim TL alot... (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 01:23:43 PM EST
    Thanks for the info.

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