home

US Drops YUUGE Bomb on ISIS in Afghanistan

First Syria. Now Trump's military bombs Afghanistan with the biggest non-nuclear bomb in the U.S. arsenal. The purpose: Taking out a tunnel system created by ISIS's Wilayat Khorasan. (Note: ISIS in the Khorasan is not the same as al Qaeda's group of fighters from the Khorasan region.)

ISIS's Khorasan Wilayat is primarily in the Nangarhar and Kunar provinces. ISIS announced its formation in 2015.

We bring the mujahideen the good news of the Islamic State’s expansion to Khorasan (a region encompassing Afghanistan, Pakistan, and other nearby lands). Therefore, we call upon all the mujahideen in Khorasan to join the caravan of the Khilafah [caliphate] and abandon disunity and factionalism.

[More...]

More background on ISIS and Afghanistan: ISIS Displays U.S. Soldier's ID in Afghanistan

The bomb was developed in 2003 for use in Iraq and never deployed. The production cost was $314 million. Each bomb costs $16 million. We had 20 (now we have19).

Description: The GBU-43/B, also known as Massive Ordnance Air Blast (MOAB), is a 20,000-pound class bomb designed to hit large areas of enemy territory to achieve a terrifying psychological impact. It uses a GPS-based navigation system and a single blast-type warhead.

The Cost of War.

Former Afghan President Karzai condemns the bombing:

This is not the war on terror but the inhuman and most brutal misuse of our country as testing ground for new and dangerous weapons. It is upon us, Afghans, to stop the #USA.

The decision to use the bomb was reportedly made by Gen. John Nicholson, commander of U.S. forces in Afghanistan.

Donald Trump isn't saying he knew about it advance. Nor is the Pentagon saying whether this was a revenge attack for the recent killing of a Green Beret in the same area.

ISIS' leader in Afghanistan called Trump a complete maniac after the election in November.

'This guy is a complete maniac,' Khorasani told Reuters. 'His utter hate towards Muslims will make our job much easier because we can recruit thousands.'

...Khorasani described President Barack Obama as a moderate infidel with at least a little brain in comparison to Trump.... 'Our leaders were closely following the US election but it was unexpected that the Americans will dig their own graves and they did so.

ISIS is a small problem in Afghanistan. The Taliban is there (fighting ISIS), and so is al Qaida. See, ISIS vs. the Taliban

We will never win a war in Afghanistan. Congress should reject Trump's expanded budget requests. Donald Trump and his ramped up military are a menace to civilization.

< Hector Beltran-Levya: Protection Against Extradition (For Now) | Friday Open Thread >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    ... afforded by Jeralyn's post to remind everyone that almost one year ago, a certain dimwitted columnist actually wrote THIS.

    800 killed.. (5.00 / 3) (#34)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 11:29:33 AM EST
    what is that supposed to be? The MAGA version of poetic license?

    The Trump crowd would've loved my son when he was six and used to say things like "800 gazillion-trillion."

    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by MKS on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 11:39:56 AM EST
    your son sounds cool. At six smarter than Trump is mow.

    Parent
    That damn bomb would have paid... (5.00 / 3) (#46)
    by desertswine on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 01:19:41 PM EST
    for a lot of Meals on Wheels.

    why are we still there? (1.00 / 2) (#5)
    by linea on Thu Apr 13, 2017 at 08:55:27 PM EST
    because there are people living in caves who think their god wants them kill non-believers?

    Coalition Military Fatalities in Afghanistan:
    U.S. Total: 2394
    non-U.S. Coalition: 3530

    for example (as part of our NATO obligation):
    43 Danish soldiers killed in action; being the highest loss per capita within the coalition forces. In addition, 214 soldiers wounded in action. 10 Norwegian soldiers killed in action and 940 soldiers wounded in action. 8 Estonian soldiers killed in action and 92 soldiers wounded in action. etc.

    i'll let militarytracy explain what wounded really means.

    Erehwon (none / 0) (#9)
    by linea on Thu Apr 13, 2017 at 09:59:54 PM EST
    down-votes me to a 1.

    apparently, im not cheerleading the afghanistan war enough (too tall at 5'5 to be a tosser), or not enough people died in afghanistan, or estonia didnt carry their fair share or something. not sure what Erehwon's point is. perhaps just a petty "i hate you" unrelated to my post.

    Parent

    I'm guessing it was for ... (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Yman on Thu Apr 13, 2017 at 10:02:13 PM EST
    ... trolling Militarytracy.

    At least, that's why I did it.

    Parent

    then you know nothing!! (none / 0) (#12)
    by linea on Thu Apr 13, 2017 at 10:08:50 PM EST

    i'll let militarytracy explain what wounded really means.

    means she can elaborate that "wounded" is a horrific and permanant thing.

    Parent

    That would be true with this weapon (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 11:01:31 PM EST
    Recently I commented on the Russian TOS that Syria and Iraq are using. This weapon also over pressurizes the very air too and explodes everyone's organs in the blast radius. You can be hiding in a cave but you can't hide there from this weapon. Nobody can hide, nobody can take cover.

    I guess we couldn't allow a Russian weapon to be out destroying us, so we had a drop a bomb that has been mostly used in jokes in the military.

    Everyone here had a first response of, "They dropped a what?" But North Korea takes the lead. We've barely been able to register we dropped the biggest non nuclear bomb in US history to kill.....38 bad guys?

    I take it the Donald was told that North Korea is mostly a military punk, so he is going to topple littlest Kim for the glamour shots. Millions of paranoid physically fragile from near starvation North Koreans will bite the dust for those photo ops. A humanitarian tragedy making America great again.

    And Russia supposedly has a FOAB. Yes, bigger and more bad ass than that puny MOAB. Will they be out done by the United States?

    Parent

    kill.....38 bad guys? (none / 0) (#68)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 09:41:38 AM EST
    Let's be straight. No one knows how many people were killed and will never know unless someone goes in the caves and counts the dead.

    Parent
    "No one knows"??? (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by Yman on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 12:32:34 PM EST
    That's weird.  Someone was just claiming 800 were killed.  Which is, of course, ridiculous, since that's the highest end of the range for the total number of ISIS fighters in the entire country of Afghanistan.

    What a difference a few hours (and facts) makes.  Just like your fact-challenged POTUS.

    Parent

    Unless someone goes in those caves.. (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by jondee on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 03:28:56 PM EST
    Personally, I'm for sending the intrepid Rush, Hannity, Mark Levin, and Michael Savage on an exploratory mission.

    And let the Taliban beware.

    Parent

    Now Jim, let us not pretend they (none / 0) (#71)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 09:59:03 AM EST
    Weren't watching this place. They probably have a very good bad guy count. Those they didn't count on being in the blast radius are of course more difficult to count.

    They just wanted to drop one, and a finally a President arrived who said, " Oh yeah, fun fun fun, let's drop one."

    Parent

    They may be good MT (none / 0) (#75)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 10:13:16 AM EST
    but I don't think they can see inside caves...

    Of course Obama and Hillary's buds in the NSA may have a grip on their email.

    But know what? I'll take 38 enemy KIA and NO US military any old day of the week.

    You?

    Parent

    Jim, I've seen videos that have (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 10:23:38 AM EST
    Been declassified of bad guy surveillance in Afghanistan. I know it drives you nuts that they actually care (at least for the moment) who they kill. Slippery slope though. Without a sane President our military can easily return to the military that makes you happy. The kill them all and let God sort it out military. If anyone ever did that to your family though, your life would be mostly over, your soul a devastated wasteland. And then you would get it. But it would be too late for you then, when you actually get it.

    Parent
    We've all seen the videos (1.00 / 1) (#86)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 02:44:52 PM EST
    and yes they care.

    But it appears that we have cared so much they're winning.

    Parent

    They are winning what? (none / 0) (#107)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 07:16:33 PM EST
    Weren't you (5.00 / 2) (#85)
    by MKS on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 12:34:54 PM EST
    spouting some b.s. that the bomb killed hundreds?

    Parent
    You're actually expecting (none / 0) (#92)
    by jondee on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 03:14:17 PM EST
    him to keep track of the bs he spouts?

    Parent
    and Yman (3.50 / 2) (#11)
    by linea on Thu Apr 13, 2017 at 10:04:35 PM EST
    my personal troll.
    joins.

    if there is some actual offense, lost in translation, than please let me know. otherwise, i will assume my assesment is correct.

    Parent

    Sorry, but you must share him with me (2.00 / 1) (#70)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 09:57:50 AM EST
    Someone cares about what you have to say (none / 0) (#109)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 07:18:29 PM EST
    And all you can do is whine :)

    Parent
    Your original post was so ... (none / 0) (#14)
    by Erehwon on Thu Apr 13, 2017 at 11:12:34 PM EST
    awful. You made a nasty remark about "them" ... the cave dwellers who want to kill non-believers. And your concern was only for coalition deaths, as though the dead Afghans, many of them civilians, are worthwhile collateral damage of no significance. Just like any "good" war cheerleader!

    I didn't have the time to write more earlier this evening, so I simply downvoted such an awful post.

    Parent

    The cave dwellers are also known as ISIS (1.00 / 2) (#17)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 08:38:32 AM EST
    They are well known to kill Jews, behead Christians, throw Gays off tall buildings, stone women who have been raped, after all they know the woman caused it, and other truly horrible acts dictated by the their wrong headed belief that their religion dictates that.

    They are radical islamist terrorists and they also believe that are to rule the world and along with the groups listed above they kill Muslims of other sects.

    You might say they don't discriminate.

     

    Parent

    I love the (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 11:11:16 PM EST
    Radical Islamic terrorist part. Jim can say it damn it, and type it, and mean it damn it!!!! HE MEANS IT! HE's not skeered of it!

    Parent
    MT, how would you describe them? (none / 0) (#69)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 09:46:34 AM EST
    You know (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 10:01:01 AM EST
    Jim it's really ironic that you point to that when the GOP has just spent a whole election season spewing misogyny. I know us "little women" are just supposed to sit there and take it because it could be worse. Just like you guys told African Americans Jim Crow was for their own good and they had it so much better than people in Africa.

    Parent
    GA, read the link. (none / 0) (#76)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 10:16:54 AM EST
    You are making yourself look very bad.

    Parent
    No (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 11:09:08 AM EST
    Jim once again you missed the point. You continually vote for people who don't think women should have control of their own bodies but yet we're supposed to get upset about another group of people that don't think women should have control of their own bodies? Seems to me the goals of the GOP are the same with regards to women and frankly if someone like Franklin Graham embraced female mutilation I'm pretty sure the GOP would embrace it too and tell us how it's for our own good.

    Parent
    Why are you afraid to condemn (1.00 / 3) (#88)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 02:53:05 PM EST
    these horrific actions and this doctor, if she actually has a degree and is licensed? If so that makes it even worse.

    Seems to you that the GOP has the goal of instituting Female Genital Mutilation?

    You're a sick puppy GA. And you better pray that Sharia Law doesn't get here.

    Parent

    You call GA "sick" (5.00 / 4) (#96)
    by MKS on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 05:35:42 PM EST
    How you get away with such insults is beyond me.

    Parent
    The GOP's right-christian (none / 0) (#91)
    by jondee on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 03:11:05 PM EST
    base would simply prefer to sew them closed and open them only for procreative purposes, the way the Good Lord intended..

    If you think Sharia Law could ever "take here" after 200+ years of Jefferson, jazz, rock n' roll, and Babe Ruth, all I can say is you need to up your meds and get out and take a walk in the fresh air.

    Parent

    Jim, no, Sharia law (none / 0) (#97)
    by MKS on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 05:37:17 PM EST
    isn't coming here.  What a paranoid and ridiculous assertion....right wing non-sense.

    Parent
    Get ready for a long skid-mark (none / 0) (#99)
    by jondee on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 06:02:05 PM EST
    post about some kids in Gallup, New Mexico and Bar Harbor, Maine who were forced to read the Koran in school.

    Parent
    Good lord (none / 0) (#106)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 07:03:17 PM EST
    Jim. You're off your rocker. You never ever condemn all the actual legislation that hurts women that the GOP puts forth. You act like this doctor is the only person in the world to ever abuse women. Your hero Putin legalized wife abuse in Russia. You only care about this because it fits your paranoia narrative. Like I said if Franklin Graham was advocating it you would be just fine with it.

    Get back to us about this when you start caring about how women are treated.  

    Parent

    You prove our point Jim (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 11:29:02 AM EST
    There are consequences in our country. In our country girls stand a chance of not being mutilated. Because we are a nation of laws that protect everyone, not a nation of religion. That's why that Christian nation bull$hit is so toxic and threatens the democracy.

    Parent
    The laws didn't protect the girls (none / 0) (#87)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 02:48:34 PM EST
    mutilated by the "doctor."

    You are so worried about Christians yet you never have a bad thing to say about our importing people that do such.

    Parent

    Silly troll (none / 0) (#105)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 06:57:07 PM EST
    laws never protect anybody from anything. Laws are about consequences.

    Parent
    You know (4.00 / 4) (#19)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 09:02:45 AM EST
    your hero Putin does many of the same things yet you defend him. Plus he imprisons the press but I guess since he reconstituted the Russian Orthodox church you're a-okay with his behavior.

    Parent
    "Thee are a lot of killers. (none / 0) (#50)
    by KeysDan on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 02:31:23 PM EST
    We've got a lot of killers. The U.S. is not so innocent."  according to Trump.

    Parent
    "You might say they don't discriminate." (none / 0) (#55)
    by Erehwon on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 05:53:09 PM EST
    As though this bomb discriminated and killed the terrorists only.

    Parent
    i want to be charitable (none / 0) (#94)
    by linea on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 04:05:23 PM EST
    by Erehwon

    Just like any "good" war cheerleader!

    but you dont read my posts.

    i have never posted anything pro-war and it would be completely disengenous to interpret this as pro-war:

    why are we still there? because there are people living in caves who think their god wants them kill non-believer?

    [followed by a list of coalition deaths and wounded]

    you make no effert to undertand what i have written. you dont read my posts. you troll me.

    Parent

    Perhaps you should take greater care in ... (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by Erehwon on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 07:17:38 PM EST
    writing prose. Others here have also asked you to write with greater care to make your meaning clear. As such, your post makes the case that your concern was only with coalition deaths and that the other side (and there is only one) is merely reduced to a caricature: "people living in caves who think their god wants them kill non-believer [sic]?"

    Parent
    my mistake (none / 0) (#114)
    by linea on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 08:12:55 PM EST
    i didnt realize you would be offended if i caricatured and dismissively belittled^ the Islamic State of the Nangarhar and Kunar provinces as people living in caves who think their god wants them to kill non-believers. i just dont feel there is a need to drop bombs on every crazy person living in a cave.

    ^ belitte means to make someone or something seem unimportant.

    Parent

    Thank you for your non-apology and passing the ... (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by Erehwon on Sun Apr 16, 2017 at 01:59:00 PM EST
    blame of misinterpratation on to me!

    If you write a post that caricatures them and regrets only coalition deaths, perhaps you are to blame for your poor prose being misinterpreted, as I did. Plus the poorly-written side-swipe on Militarytracy.

    Parent

    there was no (none / 0) (#128)
    by linea on Sun Apr 16, 2017 at 02:34:02 PM EST
    "side swipe" at anyone.  

    the fact that you call me pro-war proves that you dont read my posts - you troll me.

    by Erehwon
    Just like any "good" war cheerleader!

    you follow me around, you dont read my posts, you go out of your way to irritate me. i dont troll you!

    just ignore my posts. stop following me around and trolling me.

    Parent

    fine !! (none / 0) (#131)
    by linea on Sun Apr 16, 2017 at 03:03:26 PM EST
    I APOLOGIZE for caricaturizing the Islamic State of the Nangarhar and Kunar provinces as crazy people who live in caves.

    I APOLOGIZE that my post wasnt as well written as it should have been and that i failed to include civilan non-combattant deaths.

    now stop trolling me.

    Parent

    ALSO (none / 0) (#132)
    by linea on Sun Apr 16, 2017 at 03:45:32 PM EST
    I APOLOGIZE that my post was so poorly written that anyone misconstrued "i'll let militarytracy explain what wounded really means" to mean the exact oposite of my intent; that people in military families know that wounded isnt a minor thing.

    for example.... 214 soldiers wounded in action.... 940 soldiers wounded in action.... 92 soldiers wounded in action. etc.

    i'll let militarytracy explain what wounded really means.

    now please stop down-voting or commenting on my posts.

    Parent

    i admit (none / 0) (#117)
    by linea on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 08:29:02 PM EST
    my original post would have been a better anti-war rant had it also listed the total of civilan non-combatant casualities.

    it often takes me an hour to put together posts; to do the research, to look up the meanings of words, and to make edits. i felt it was a good post. not perfect.

    Parent

    I think we have 17 of these bombs (none / 0) (#2)
    by caseyOR on Thu Apr 13, 2017 at 07:41:56 PM EST
    left in our arsenal. We ordered 20. We tested 2 in 2003. We dropped one today.

    Not to worry. I am sure whatever defense contractor built these can tool up to build more should we reprise "shock and awe" warfare.

    Yep, DOD spent $314 million for R&D, and ... (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 13, 2017 at 08:33:34 PM EST
    ... $16 million apiece for the 20 bombs. That's a cool $614 million right there, just for the bunker buster program.

    Let's please no longer allow Republicans to insult everyone's intelligence by claiming that we somehow can't afford the appropriations for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting (445 million), the National Endowment for the Arts ($146 million), and the National Endowment for the Humanities ($167 million), but instead need to double our defense spending.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    These are not bunker buster bombs. (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by caseyOR on Thu Apr 13, 2017 at 09:22:03 PM EST
    The MOAB is designed more for "shock and awe" . It detonates before it hits the ground unlike a bunker buster which penetrates the ground before detonating.

    MOAB packs a wallop, though sending shock waves a mile in every direction.

    The two tests in 2003 were supposed to so shock Saddam Hussein that he would just surrender to U.S. forces.

    Parent

    I read that USAF deployed the MOAB ... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 03:31:55 AM EST
    ... for use against an ISIS tunnel complex. I had assumed it was another bunker buster. I wonder how it does that if detonated while still at some level of altitude. Personally, I disapprove. Any bomb so powerful as to take out anything within a one-mile radius in any direction is a WMD.


    Parent
    The killing effect is the huge (none / 0) (#16)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 08:29:02 AM EST
    shock wave going out on the initial explosion. It will also enter caves killing people and collapsing building,etc. It will then reverse as the explosion collapses and cause air to rush back killing people  and collapsing buildings.

    And yes it is a weapon of mass destruction.

    And your point is?? You'd rather get our people killed?

    Parent

    The point is that ... (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 12:34:48 PM EST
    ... when you think that you have to destroy the village in order to save it, you've clearly lost your way. And after 15-plus years of war in Afghanistan, we're obviously no closer to achieving our desired outcome today, than we were at the Battle of Tora Bora in December 2001. In fact, do we even know what our goal is anymore?

    Parent
    The point is that the village has already been (none / 0) (#56)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 08:10:07 PM EST
    destroyed.

    What the bomb does is eliminate the need for ground troops going in and rooting them out of the caves. A very deadly combat situation.

    Parent

    They're going to have to drop (none / 0) (#59)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 09:38:25 PM EST
    a helluva a lot of bombs -- and one's even bigger than the one they just dropped

    The Taliban and Al Queda have been honeycombing into those mountains since they were fighting the Soviets in the eighties.

    I say the U.S should night-drop the fearless 101st Talk Radio Division in those mountains with knives between their teeth, and let 'em root the terrorists out of their spider holes one cave at a time. They'll never know what hit 'em.

    Parent

    what civilian (none / 0) (#64)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 11:44:44 PM EST
    Americans are at risk of being killed in the Achin district of Nangarhar province? It's hardly a them vs. us situation.

    Parent
    It is our military (none / 0) (#73)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 10:08:59 AM EST
    So it is  "them vs. us." Unless we just leave.

    I understand you are opposed to our being there.

    But past history shows that ISIS, al Qaeda, et al, as radical islamist terrorists, are exporting their desire to kill people in the US and around the world.

    And they have been succeeding.

    This is war.

    Parent

    Of course, you never know exactly who the "them" are at any given moment, especially when they change to the "these" and "those," but whoever they are and wherever they came from, you know that they're out there somewhere, plotting to get you 'cause freedom.

    Parent
    I agree with Donald that the MOAB is a WMD (none / 0) (#110)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 07:19:50 PM EST
    i read this too (none / 0) (#13)
    by linea on Thu Apr 13, 2017 at 10:19:15 PM EST
    These are not bunker buster bombs.

    from what i read, this really isnt the correct munition (as you point out) for bunker busting. but i didnt post it because im too much a novice on this topic.

    Parent

    Excuse me, my bad. (none / 0) (#4)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 13, 2017 at 08:46:28 PM EST
    The total outlay for the program was $634 million, and not $614 million. Further, per an appropriate tweet from Binyamin Appelbaum of the New York Times:

    "Trumpeting the size of the bomb, rather than the results (if there were any), is basically the way the government narrated the Vietnam War."

    Aloha.

    Parent

    When I heard the President say (5.00 / 3) (#42)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 12:32:02 PM EST
    "This was a very successful bombing." I did a face palm. Donald Trump will prove Chomsky correct about war and linguistics.

    When a general said, "It was the right weapon for the right target," (it's a loathsome weapon). And the President says what he said, nobody is buffering anything. The brutality is fully displayed.

    Normally our President rewords the actions of the pit bull, makes it more palatable. No more, the President is also a pit bull and wants everyone to admire him for that. And there is no Cesar Millan in the equation.

    Parent

    As if dropping this bomb wasn't enough, (none / 0) (#7)
    by caseyOR on Thu Apr 13, 2017 at 09:32:06 PM EST
    NBC reports that the U.S. may launch a pre-emotive attack on North Korea if it looks like N. Korea will conduct another nuclear test.[http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-may-launch-strike-if-north-korea-reaches-nuclear-n746366]

    That nuclear text could come this weekend. These are unsettling times.

    Troubling indeed (none / 0) (#8)
    by MKS on Thu Apr 13, 2017 at 09:53:33 PM EST
    I had also heard the Pentagon is pushing back on the whole story.

    Parent
    Looks like Trump has untied the (none / 0) (#18)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 08:44:21 AM EST
    military and we are starting to use weapons that have long been available but unused.

    Instead Obama subjected our military to a no win grinding war.

    Things a be a changing.

    The person (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 09:07:16 AM EST
    who subjected us to all this is George W. Bush not Obama. Bush is the one that lied to all Americans and send the men over there. Obama was dealing with the mess George W. Bush left the entire country with.

    Parent
    The same intelligence agencies that (1.00 / 5) (#22)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 09:19:18 AM EST
    you believe say that Trump is controlled by Putin are the ones that Bush believed.

    The war in Iraq was over and ISIS was created by Obama pulling our troops out.

    The people who died in this strike died because of Obama's actions.  

    Parent

    You're ignoring (5.00 / 3) (#29)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 10:47:06 AM EST
    the fact that George W. Bush cherry picked the intelligence. He even withheld pertinent contradictory evidence from members of his own party on the intelligence committee.

    Secondly the Trump Putin connections are being confirmed with European intelligence. Apparently Guilani is even trying to cut a deal with the FBI. That's how far reaching this whole Russian interference is going. The European intelligence services were the ones notifying our intelligence services that Trump was a Putin stooge almost 2 years ago. The indictments are going to be far reaching and ensnaring people we had no idea were in on it.

    No, the war in Iraq was not over when Bush left office.

    Parent

    if only (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by mm on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 12:09:19 PM EST
    someone at the time had thought of sending in weapons inspectors to Iraq, Bush might have been able to lay off the curveballs and thereby avoid having to send other American's children to die over a lie.

    Parent
    And once again, you've chosen to ignore ... (5.00 / 3) (#47)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 01:34:28 PM EST
    jimakaPPJ: "The war in Iraq was over and ISIS was created by Obama pulling our troops out. The people who died in this strike died because of Obama's actions."

    ... the inconvenient fact that there was a binding status of forces agreement with Iraq that had been negotiated and signed by President George W. Bush in 2008, which required our military to withdraw entirely from that country by 2011.

    Given the adamant position of the Baghdad government at the time, which refused to accept even a residual U.S. military presence in the country, President Obama was obligated to implement the Iraq SOFA in full, because presidents don't possess the unilateral authority to ignore and abrogate at whim the provisions of binding international agreements which had been negotiated and achieved by their predecessors.

    Further, Jim, all of this has been pointed out to you time and again by any number of people here, myself included. It's futile to discuss anything with you, when you deliberately choose to behave over and again with such rank dishonesty as to deliberately and repeatedly misstate easily documentable facts in the course of advancing your arguments.

    Any such argument, based as it is upon known falsehoods, is no real argument at all. Rather, it's self-manufactured and vacuous propaganda, a great big steaming and reeking pile of self-deluding right-wing bullschitt which you're consuming with gusto, because you quite obviously lack the maturity and capacity to process and accept the truth.

    So, Jim, you're wrong. Any insistence on your part to the contrary doesn't make you any less wrong, but instead shows you off as a blindly partisan crackpot who's stubbornly impervious to reason.

    To paraphrase Jack Nicholson, sell crazy someplace else.

    Parent

    You know Donald (1.00 / 1) (#57)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 08:17:05 PM EST
    when you are at war and your generals tell you not to do something it takes a special type of arrogance and ignorance to ignore them.

    All he to do was say, sorry. Game has changed.

    And you know that.

    Si your argument is only made to protect your Dear Leader, Obama of Cut and Run.

    Parent

    It takes an even more special (5.00 / 3) (#58)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 09:18:10 PM EST
    type of arrogance to spread manure about an imaginary "800" terrorists being killed, and then to blithely go on expecting anyone to take you seriously.

    Parent
    Have a nice day.

    Parent
    Thanks Donald, (1.00 / 1) (#89)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 02:55:25 PM EST
    for being so liberal and defending my right to disagree with you.

    That is what has made this country great!

    Parent

    Does OSP mean anything to you? (none / 0) (#74)
    by Molly Bloom on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 10:12:41 AM EST
    Looks like Trump abdicated his responsibilities (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by vicndabx on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 09:14:58 AM EST
    regarding constitutionally required civilian oversight of the military.

    Parent
    If you want to say the current authorization has (none / 0) (#23)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 09:23:29 AM EST
    expired, go ahead.

    If you are making a claim that his saying that he has turned fighting the war over to the military you're just playing word games. As POTUS he has the right to define the goals and then tell the military to achieve that goal within the agreed to restraints.

    Parent

    You're right on both counts (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by vicndabx on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 10:15:16 AM EST
    but you didn't address the requirement for O-V-E-R-S-I-G-H-T.

    Define and tell are fine, but there's at least one other component you're ignoring.

    Parent

    Of course Trump is watching (none / 0) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 10:36:05 AM EST
    and so are members of the administration.

    What he isn't doing is micro managing...target selection....weapons used..etc.

    Parent

    How the heck (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 10:49:03 AM EST
    do you know? Saying Trump is doing something is like saying Kim Jung-un is doing something.

    Parent
    mmmmm'k (none / 0) (#31)
    by vicndabx on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 10:54:58 AM EST
    The worries center more on who is not in the room -- namely in the National Security Council's powerful "deputies committee," which is made up of the second-ranking officials across departments such as State, Treasury and Defense. That body has historically cued up options for the Cabinet and ultimately the president, but Trump's slow pace in filling agency slots means that many of the committee's members are either Obama holdovers or career staffers with little influence.

    "That is your civilian control," said Andrew Hoehn, who was deputy assistant Defense secretary for strategy under George W. Bush. Hoen, now vice president for research and analysis at the government-funded RAND Corp., said the deputies committee "is how policy is made. Lacking those positions is a concern. Do we have the right set of inputs in place yet? I think the answer to that is no."

    The NSC declined several requests for answers about how many deputy committee meetings have taken place during the Trump administration and who has attended. Requests for comment to the office of Mattis, who pledged in his January confirmation hearing to "provide strong civilian leadership of military plans and decisions," were also not answered.

    Link

    Parent

    They dropped a bomb (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by Yman on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 09:27:12 AM EST
    That's it.  The hands of the military were never tied and Trump has "untied" nothing.  But it makes the armchair warriors feel like they're doing something, so ...

    ... mission accomplished.

    Parent

    Leave it to the generals, (none / 0) (#51)
    by KeysDan on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 02:48:02 PM EST
    depends on what is being left to the generals (and admirals). A coherent strategy and plan that organizes political, economic and informational power to achieve goals and end points is foundational to military action.  Each component needs to be articulated toward contribution of the goal.  Coherence should precede military action. The president should be ahead of the generals, and not in the sense that the president knows more than all the generals.  

    Parent
    Don't think so (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by MKS on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 11:37:51 AM EST
    Trump has no strategy.

    But I am sure he likes big bombs. Likes it when they go boom. Cheeto man child.

    Parent

    Really? (none / 0) (#43)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 12:33:11 PM EST
    You are so blood thirsty Jim.

    Parent
    I'm Still Looking for the Value Add (none / 0) (#25)
    by RickyJim on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 09:38:27 AM EST
    Just read this article on what the US gained by dropping the bomb.  I didn't see any rationale for doing it.  Maybe it is that ISIS is hurting US efforts in Afghanistan more than apparent to us.  Or maybe it is that after spending all that money developing the bomb, an itchy fingers bunch of generals just felt they had to use one.

    The VAT? (1.00 / 2) (#28)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 10:38:10 AM EST
    800 ISIS killed in caves and other places that would be high cost in terms of US lives lost if done otherwise.

    Parent
    Reports (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by FlJoe on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 10:55:54 AM EST
    are saying 36 killed, at a cost at almost half a mil a pop

    Parent
    And that's not counting any civilians (none / 0) (#45)
    by desertswine on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 12:38:29 PM EST
    who might have been in the area.

    Parent
    There are no civilians living in that area (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by Peter G on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 01:46:41 PM EST
    any more.

    Parent
    Super spensive killin bad guys (none / 0) (#62)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 11:06:33 PM EST
    Mar-a-Lago style. Only the best. Only the biggest. We are tired of winning.

    Parent
    Why am I picturing (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Yman on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 06:18:02 AM EST
    ... this bombcovered in gold leaf?  

    Wonder how much it would take to cover an MC-130?

    Parent

    800 ????? (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by Yman on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 12:24:06 PM EST
    From what winger source did you get THAT imaginary number?  It's amazing how they have such trouble with basic skills like counting.

    #alternativefacts

    Parent

    I heard this morning (5.00 / 5) (#41)
    by mm on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 12:31:08 PM EST
    on cable news there are only 800 ISIS members in the entire country.  Are you saying this one bomb killed them all.  ISIS is wiped out?

    Also in the news, NATO has been fixed and is no longer obsolete, China has stopped manipulating their currency and the administration has discovered WikiLeaks is a hostile intelligence service.

    And on the 5th, 6th, and 7th days he rested and played a little golf leaving his son-in-law and daughter to run the store.

    Parent

    According to the Article I Cited (none / 0) (#33)
    by RickyJim on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 11:03:07 AM EST
    36 ISIS fighters killed.  Where do you get your information?  So who is our enemy in Afghanistan?  The Taliban or their enemy ISIS?

    Parent
    He gets (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 11:29:42 AM EST
    his news from wingnut welfare.

    Parent
    Magicians pull rabbits out of hats (none / 0) (#38)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 12:08:01 PM EST
    and Trump supporters pull numbers out of their as*es.

    And just wait till they build that giant wall. It's going to be fabulous. Unbelievable. They've got David Copperfield working on it.

    Parent

    ... Dr. Otto Yurass and Prof. Lois Commondenominator.

    Parent
    He heard the bear hand puppet (none / 0) (#60)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 09:58:37 PM EST
    say it to the rabbit hand puppet on Fox and Friends.

    Then the Trump puppet hit the bad Obama puppet with a stick and knocked his turban off.

    Parent

    They are the military (none / 0) (#80)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 10:30:37 AM EST
    They study war. I live with these people. They train to view everything as a possible threat. Conservatives must understand why you need sane civilian leadership of the military.

    They have always wanted to drop one. To get to see what it would actually do in a real situation.

    They really had no reason to use this particular weapon. And that site is being inspected now. It's a study. They found a worthy target and an agreeable President.

    They just wanted to drop one. Now Russia will need to drop one of theirs on some worthy target.

    Parent

    Maybe This is the Rationale (none / 0) (#52)
    by RickyJim on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 03:02:39 PM EST
    "The enemy had created bunkers, tunnels and extensive mine fields, and this weapon was used to reduce those obstacles so that we could continue our offensive in southern Nangarhar," said Gen Nicholson.

    This is not clear but he seems to be saying that the big bomb was the best way to clear the area of mines so that the forces could pass through it to get to some unspecified place for some unspecified purpose.

    This is (none / 0) (#53)
    by KeysDan on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 03:19:41 PM EST
    a test.

    Parent
    or (none / 0) (#54)
    by FlJoe on Fri Apr 14, 2017 at 03:33:16 PM EST
    when you are losing at whack-a-mole...use a bigger hammer.

    Parent
    Hopefully, it will have accomplished ... (none / 0) (#67)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 07:21:14 AM EST
    "Benteen Come on. Big Village. Be quick. Bring Packs."
    - Final written communique from Gen. George A. Custer to Capt. Will Benteen, Little Bighorn River (June 26, 1876)

    ... some unspecified objective so that we can achieve some unspecified goal.

    Parent

    While I don't disagree that the weapon (none / 0) (#77)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 10:17:36 AM EST
    Accomplishes those goals, the added aggressions are leading to escalation. Russia showed up with the TOS to fight ISIS. That was an escalation. Then I'm guessing some of our commanders began sniveling about what they weren't allowed to use under Obama to fight ISIS. Russia is making us look weak sort of thing. So we drop a bomb so big we've never used one on some ISIS affiliate. But Russia quickly let everyone know they have a bigger bomb. We've used a MOAB. Why can't they use a FOAB to fight some "ISIS" in a Syrian urban area now?

    Hasn't President Trump and our military leaders just reduced that possibility to an argument about semantics that the people of Syria will likely be the first to lose?

    I am not pro ISIS, not in any way. But the weapon escalation is dangerous. This is that stuff that gets us into a world war.

    Then there's North Korea in the midst of this.

    Parent

    What you are arguing for (1.00 / 1) (#79)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 10:28:47 AM EST
    is proportional response.

    It caused us to lose in Korea and Vietnam.

    And we are losing here. The enemy has decided to just wait us out.

    Parent

    I won't even discuss Korea with you (none / 0) (#81)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 10:35:19 AM EST
    My husband has been doing a study of the Korean War. My God what people suffered. You aren't made of that sort of stuff Jim. You are a keyboard wuss.

    The North Korean culture is what it is generationally because Japan tortured people in that region. Ungodly torture. Hitler had nothing on them for medical experimentation.

    I don't harbor hate for North Koreans. Millions will die of starvation. I get it you don't care, that's your prerogative. I care.

    Parent

    I never made a (1.00 / 4) (#90)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 03:10:41 PM EST
    study while I was in. Too busy.  Sounds like pretty soft duty to me. What was that Green26 claimed?

    Japan tortured people in KOREA yet South Korea dosen't have a mad man threatening to attack us and starving his people.

    But thanks for supporting the dude threatening to nuke us and Japan, et al.

    And you don't have to harbor hate for anyone to understand that proportional responses....the failure to use all available and necessary sources to win...to know that we lost in Korea and Vietnam because of that. And we are on the path to lose in this unless we wake up. I think Trump as rang the bell. At least I hope so.

    And millions have already died because of starvation and will continue to do so unless someone stops this mad man and is killing.

    Parent

    Silly, baseless smears (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by Yman on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 05:50:22 PM EST
    ] I never made a study while I was in. Too busy.  Sounds like pretty soft duty to me. What was that Green26 claimed
    .

    Indeed - the mess can get pretty busy at meal times.  Plus, they're not usually qualified to do studies, unless it had to do with food consumption.

    Is that what you mean by Green26's baseless, personal smears?  

    That IS easy!

    Parent

    It's okay Yman (5.00 / 4) (#112)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 07:24:02 PM EST
    If Jim knew why my husband was doing the study and who he answers to he'd crap himself :)

    Parent
    MT, you started the nasty (1.00 / 2) (#118)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Apr 16, 2017 at 07:49:41 AM EST
    You aren't made of that sort of stuff Jim. You are a keyboard wuss.

    And then get all ditzy.

    If you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen.

    And of course you can't tell us what he's doing and who he's working for. It's classified, right?

    Wait. How do you know? Shades of Hillary's server?

    Parent

    I don't specifically want to be nasty Jim (5.00 / 3) (#121)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Apr 16, 2017 at 09:40:20 AM EST
    I have a difficult time stomaching your rhetoric though. And the Koreas have importance in our family and most of the military. My husband has done 3 tours to Korea in over almost a 30 yr career now. His last tour was Camp Red Cloud after the Iraq War was over. My brother-in-law spent a lot of time there too. And we have many military spouses from Korea as well as many retired military who choose to retire to South Korea.

    You have a difficult time separating a regime from the choiceless. Most South Koreans care deeply about the fate of North Koreans and there are plans in place to save as many as possible when the regime falls. It has become an accepted fact that the regime will fall, it's only a matter of when not if.

    Parent

    MT, my comment was not about (none / 0) (#122)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Apr 16, 2017 at 12:37:14 PM EST
    South Korea. Or the cultures. Or the hardships. Or anything about choices. Or about Trump. Or about Russia.

    It simply noted that we used proportional responses in the Korean War and essentially lost.

    So you come back with:

    You aren't made of that sort of stuff Jim. You are a keyboard wuss.

    Why my noting that in Korea and Vietnam we elected to not use all our capabilities bothered you to the point that you had to go for the personal insult I do not know.

    Yet you did. And being tired of your attacks I responded.

    'Nuff said.

    Parent

    Lost re Korean War (5.00 / 3) (#124)
    by MKS on Sun Apr 16, 2017 at 12:50:21 PM EST
    Unreal that you would say that.

    The nation of South Korea was saved.   Although no peace treaty or formal end to the war occurred, South Korea has prospered.

    But if you are looking for complete devastation of an enemy and the killing of millions of its civilian population, then you must be disappointed.

    Thank God that people in charge have not had the same "values" as you.

    Parent

    It really is unreal isn't it? (5.00 / 3) (#129)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Apr 16, 2017 at 02:53:21 PM EST
    I lived there for a short time. Right before Kim Jong-il passed. North Korea really hadn't been aggressive for a long time. Soooo, we had a lot of the South Korean youth involved in a movement called Unite the Koreas. And the college youth blamed US involvement in the separation of the Koreas.

    There wasn't much known publicly about North Korea then. And when I was shopping one day I ran into some college students. Josh was about a year and a half old, and his genetic mutation causes his collagen to be very dense. When he was a baby he was taken to be part Asian many times because he has what looks to be a more Asian eyelid. I got used to him being very touched and coddled in Korea. And two different times when women realized that I did not speak Korean they became frustrated with me and just took off with my baby, me running after. They just wanted to share him with friends, and spoil him it appeared...or maybe they were trying to steal him :). But the college students thought I was Russian. Many Russian women were being trafficked in South Korea then. Sometimes they married South Korean men. The students wanted to interview me until they discovered I was married to a United States soldier. The looks on their faces were....sort of disgusted. And I wanted to understand so I started asking questions.

    It was a sometimes frustrating time for US service members. Everything was their fault, and they can't share intelligence with the rest of the world. They just had to take it. The people who remembered the Korean War had their backs, and I saw fights in the streets between young protesting Koreans and their grandmothers. And dealing with the KATUSA and South Korean military for service members too. The KATUSA and South Korean military have always been real clear who South Korea belongs to.

    The Internet, it schooled the world on the realities of North Korea when films were able to be smuggled out.

    Then North Korea bombed South Korean islands. The student protests ended on any large scale, turned out grandma knew things. But a dream died, always a tough thing for a Liberal to witness. Then South Korea began to attempt to prepare to save paranoid starving North Koreans.

    I'm getting frustrated with US voters. Compared to South Korea, preparing for realities, we look like spoiled dumba$$e$ almost as out of touch with real life and living on rhetoric as North Korea. But doing it willfully


    Parent

    My dad was a lifer (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by MKS on Sun Apr 16, 2017 at 02:59:23 PM EST
    and served twice in Korea....Once on the DMZ with a tactical nuke battery.

    Parent
    General Curtis (none / 0) (#125)
    by jondee on Sun Apr 16, 2017 at 01:21:09 PM EST
    "Let's hit the Russians first" Lemay..

    And then they'll turn around on a dime and quote the New Testament to prove how spirtual they are..

    These folk's christian values remind me of Robert Mitchum's homocidal preacher in The Night of the Hunter.

    Parent

    let's drop the big one (none / 0) (#126)
    by mm on Sun Apr 16, 2017 at 01:44:30 PM EST
    Political Science in the age of Trump.

    Parent
    So you are happy with only 1 leg? (none / 0) (#133)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Apr 16, 2017 at 06:34:41 PM EST
    Have no idea (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by MKS on Sun Apr 16, 2017 at 06:48:29 PM EST
    what you are blathering about.

    But I do know you think there is no such thing as War Crimes.

    Parent

    You are such a freak Jim (none / 0) (#157)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 19, 2017 at 08:16:50 AM EST
    Is there anything you aren't paranoid about? (5.00 / 4) (#100)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 06:03:51 PM EST
    You have a clear knack for reducing otherwise intelligent conversation in these threads to angry and immature gibberish. Of course the North Koreans are a potential threat, Jim -- emphasis on the word "potential." But it doesn't do any good to overstate the problem and overreact like you're Yosemite Sam in a Bugs Bunny cartoon.

    Kim Jong-un is a narcissistic, amoral, ruthless and (perhaps) sociopathic despot, but he's hardly insane. Further, North Korea's entire history of provocation since the 1953 cease-fire agreement has been based on seeking attention and extorting humanitarian assistance from its neighbors and the West, because the country's a socio-economic basket case.

    Today's military parade in Pyongyang is a case in point. It's an event that occurs annually on April 15, Kim Il-sung's birthday, which is a North Korean national holiday honoring the late founder of the state. It's a day further marked by hyperbolic but otherwise entirely predictable speeches denouncing the United States. So what else is new?

    Other than taking due notice of any new weapons systems, of which there were apparently two, any saber-rattling on our part in response to it is a foolish endeavor that can lead to serious consequences if we're entirely too cavalier about it.

    We'll win a war with North Korea, no doubt. But what will that victory look like -- a devastated Seoul? A unified but impoverished Korea which will require our economic assistance and military protection, with a clearly hostile China as its neighbor? An east Asia community of nations which collectively concludes that we are dangerously reckless ourselves, and can no longer be trusted? Be very careful what you ask for.

    Very few people in world history have proved themselves to be collectively suicidal. The North Korean leadership is unlikely to use nuclear weapons, because to do so would mean their immediate and utter annihilation and they know it. Nor would launching a conventional war be in their best interests and favor, which would also result in their destruction. Rather, they are crouched in a defensive posture, because their hold is so fragile and tenuous.

    We therefore and likely have the luxury of time and can wait them out. Hemmed in by our vigilance and isolated as they are in the world, the North Korean regime under Kim Jong-un will inevitably collapse under its own weight, and eventually be replaced by someone who seeks rapprochement with South Korea and the West on behalf of an impoverished and desperate people.

    Ciao.

    Parent

    Well, in spite of China's warnings (none / 0) (#102)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 06:38:28 PM EST
    Jim -- emphasis on the word "potential." But it doesn't do any good to overstate the problem and overreact like you're Yosemite Sam in a Bugs Bunny cartoon.

    and our warnings, North Korea tried to launch another missile.

    You can blather all you want but we failed to fix this problem back in the 90's and now it has become very serious. We can't wait longer. Time is no longer on our side.

    Parent

    "Back in the 90's" - heh (none / 0) (#113)
    by Yman on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 08:05:58 PM EST
    Skipping right past those 8 years in the 2000s where you armchair warriors had your boy GW in office.

    And Republican's pretend to be in favor of personal responsibility ...

    Parent

    And that missile launch failed, Jim. (none / 0) (#116)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 08:25:12 PM EST
    LINK. You're creating a mountain out of a molehill. But then, why should today be any different, eh?

    Parent
    It only takes one (none / 0) (#119)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Apr 16, 2017 at 07:50:47 AM EST
    Donald (none / 0) (#136)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Apr 17, 2017 at 07:47:02 AM EST
    Looks like the Cheeto's (none / 0) (#137)
    by MKS on Mon Apr 17, 2017 at 10:21:00 AM EST
    saber rattling didn't help.  Next war is on him.

    Parent
    Well my husband is plenty effing busy (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 07:21:56 PM EST
    AND doing this study

    Parent
    We dropped more bombs (none / 0) (#101)
    by jondee on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 06:16:10 PM EST
    on Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos than we dropped in Europe during WWII.

    Did any Vietnamese, Cambodian, or Laotian ever drop even one bomb anywhere in the U.S in all that time?

    What the hell was "proportional" in that scenario, General?

    Parent

    We didn't attack or bomb Hanoi. (1.00 / 4) (#103)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 06:39:39 PM EST
    How's that, private?

    Parent
    I don't suppose the phrase (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by jondee on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 06:48:49 PM EST
    "Christmas bombing of Hanoi" means anything to you?

    Doesn't being wrong all the time get boring after awhile, Old Blood and Guts?

    Parent

    "We didn't attack or bomb Hanoi"? (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Apr 15, 2017 at 08:14:14 PM EST
    Well, Sen. John McCain might beg to differ with that rather spectacular piece of wingbat dipschittery, since his A-4 Skyhawk fighter-bomber was shot down by a North Vietnamese SAM on October 26, 1967 during an attack on that city's thermal power plant, and he was subsequently rescued by Hanoi residents from Truc Bach Lake, where his plane had crashed.

    You're a waste of bandwidth, Jim.

    Parent

    Dropping a few bombs on Hanoi (1.00 / 1) (#120)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Apr 16, 2017 at 08:05:01 AM EST
    was not an attack.

    We just dropped some bomb in a futile proportional response.

    All that accomplished was killing a few people.

    If we had actually attacked with all our resources the war would have been over very quickly.

    But we didn't.

    Parent

    That's so wrong as to be completely moronic. (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Apr 17, 2017 at 11:46:58 AM EST
    jimakaPPJ: "Dropping a few bombs on Hanoi was not an attack. We just dropped some bomb in a futile proportional response. All that accomplished was killing a few people. If we had actually attacked with all our resources the war would have been over very quickly. But we didn't."

    The biggest sustained heavy bombing campaign ever undertaken by the United States since the Second World War was Operation Linebacker II, aka "the Christmas Bombings."

    The massive air raids took place over the course of 11 days between December 18 and 29, 1972. During that period, the U.S. 7th Air Force and U.S. Navy Task Force 77 dropped at least 20,000 tons of high-intensity ordinance on North Vietnam, mostly concentrating on the capital of Hanoi.

    Per the North Vietnamese count, 1,624 civilians were killed in the Dec. 1972 aerial assault although that number may well be much higher, given the Hanoi regime's perfectly understandable propensity throughout the war to publicly understate and downplay their own often heavy losses. Casualties incurred by the Noth Vietnamese military were never officially disclosed and remain unknown. Between three and six defending MiG-21 fighter aircraft were shot down.

    On the U.S. side, 16 B-52s and 12 F-111 and A-4 tactical aircraft were shot down over Hanoi, mostly by the barrages of Soviet-supplied surface-to-air missiles which met the waves of attacking U.S. aircraft. Another 9 B-52s were badly damaged. 43 U.S. airmen were killed and another 49 were taken prisoner.

    And once again, Jim, without any equivocation on your part, you've shown that either you're perfectly willing to traffic in easily refutable misinformation, or you simply don't know what the hell you're talking about, or some combination of the two thereof. At this point, you're just wasting bandwidth. I'll let our host determine whether or not that constitutes trolling.

    Have a nice day.

    Parent

    Silly you, Donald, Jimbo (none / 0) (#139)
    by MKS on Mon Apr 17, 2017 at 11:57:44 AM EST
    meant we should have nuked Hanoi....

    Parent
    D'oh! My bad! (none / 0) (#141)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Apr 17, 2017 at 12:58:38 PM EST
    Who are we, really, to argue about such matters with Gen. Buck Turgidson?

    Parent
    A nuclear first strike against your (none / 0) (#142)
    by jondee on Mon Apr 17, 2017 at 01:10:14 PM EST
    Vietnamese, your rooskies, and your red chinks may be the only way to maintain the purity of our precious bodily fluids..

    That and drinking only rainwater and grain alcohol.

    Parent

    Koreans, Iranians (none / 0) (#143)
    by MKS on Mon Apr 17, 2017 at 01:13:08 PM EST
    and the Germans better toe the line too.

    Parent
    All those radioactive fall-out (none / 0) (#147)
    by jondee on Mon Apr 17, 2017 at 06:34:07 PM EST
    hoaxers too.

    Parent
    And don't forget those darn Mexicans. (none / 0) (#148)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Apr 17, 2017 at 06:59:32 PM EST
    We'll make 'em beg us to pay for the wall. And Queen Elizabeth II better break out that Golden Pumpkin carriage of hers for El Supremo's arrival, if she knows what's good for her country.

    Parent
    Wait, .... WHAT?!? (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by Yman on Mon Apr 17, 2017 at 12:50:44 PM EST
    We just dropped some bomb in a futile proportional response.

    All that accomplished was killing a few people.

    From the same guy who was crowing about Trump lobbing some cruise missiles in Syria (that "took out" one airfield for a day) and dropping a bomb in Afghan desert?

    Heh.

    Those double standards are fun, aren't they?

    Parent

    You're some piece of work.. (none / 0) (#123)
    by jondee on Sun Apr 16, 2017 at 12:49:58 PM EST
    even when your argument is blown completely out of the water, you keep blathering on like one of your talk radio heroes..

    Reducing German cities to cinders in WWII didn't even "bring an end" to that war; the D-Day invasion and the Russians surrounding the German 6th Army did..

    You're living in a fantasy world. Have fun there.

    Parent

    Coming from someone who (none / 0) (#134)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Apr 16, 2017 at 06:42:49 PM EST
    said that Bush saying "Mission Accomplished" was him saying the war was over is rich indeed. He spoke of the mission.

    But maybe you have changed. Do you now say that he was speaking of the ship's mission?

    The point is simple. A few bombing runs, restricted targets, etc., is not an attack designed to end the war.

    They were designed to get the communists to the negotiating table where they argued endlessly over the shape of the table while we stood around like the stupes we were.

    Parent

    Mission Accomplished (5.00 / 2) (#144)
    by jondee on Mon Apr 17, 2017 at 01:22:52 PM EST
    was only referring to Bush landing his jet on a carrier and nothing else whatsoever?? lol

    That interpretation is so intelligence insulting and laughable, it could only come from someone who lives in the mental parallel dimension of talk radio land.

    No wonder you folks are so ripe for the picking when it comes to stories about climate change "hoaxes" and final battles of God and Magog.

    No narrative can ever be Too detached from reality and disingenuous for you folks.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#146)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 17, 2017 at 01:38:03 PM EST
    Bush's stunt of prancing around on that aircraft carrier in front of that Mission Accomplished banner has become the butt of jokes.

    Parent
    I see that you know (none / 0) (#149)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Apr 17, 2017 at 07:45:48 PM EST
    as much about climate change as you do about Bush's trip to the ship.

    Hint. He was a passenger.

    You been Gumped! lol

    Parent

    I know I know.. (none / 0) (#151)
    by jondee on Mon Apr 17, 2017 at 08:33:58 PM EST
    getting people to think that humans influence climate change is just a trick of the devil and those dastardly, inscrutable Chinamen.

    Yessir, just like he planted all those fossils for those fancy-pants paleontologists to find.

    Hint. Everybody on the ship was a "passenger", so what exactly is your point?
    Did you even know yourself?

    lol

    Parent

    Actually ships and airplanes have (none / 0) (#152)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Apr 18, 2017 at 08:06:55 AM EST
    "passengers" and "crew."

    Bush was a "passenger" on the airplane trip to the ship. He was a "passenger" on the ship.

    Did jondee misspeak himself or did he not know?

    He be Gumped.

    Like he doesn't know the difference between a plain old every day theory and a Scientific Theory.

    Maybe be can do some research.

    Parent

    Gumped.. (none / 0) (#154)
    by jondee on Tue Apr 18, 2017 at 12:01:18 PM EST
    I'm not familiar with that expression..

    Is that what they say back in the holler when you get ahold of some bad moonshine?

    Parent

    Btw, do you condemn your fellow (none / 0) (#145)
    by jondee on Mon Apr 17, 2017 at 01:32:22 PM EST
    Republicans for treasonously sabotaging the Paris Peace Talks?

    Silly question, I know. If course you don't

    You'd sooner drive another nail into Jesus.

    Admitting error is a sign of weakness, and blow to Southern manhood and honor.


    Parent

    LOL! (none / 0) (#150)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Apr 17, 2017 at 07:56:47 PM EST
    Sons of Confederate Veterans: Doubling down on stupid since 1860.

    Parent
    All you need to know about (none / 0) (#153)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Apr 18, 2017 at 08:24:30 AM EST
    really big bombs.

    And why we use them.


    And here's all we need to know about you: (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 18, 2017 at 11:20:25 PM EST
    That's about it, in a nutshell (none / 0) (#156)
    by jondee on Tue Apr 18, 2017 at 11:28:02 PM EST
    Yeah, pretty much. (none / 0) (#158)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Apr 19, 2017 at 10:27:46 PM EST
    Seeing that big, fat piñata served up here while the bat's resting on my shoulders, well, it's just too much temptation for my inner child to resist.
    ;-D

    Parent