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Netroots: Where Do We Go From Here?

Yesterday, I discussed again the problem of Netroots focus and the deterioration into being concerned only with electoral politics and not enough with issues. In the dailykos diaries, Eugene writes a good piece discussing the dilemma. But I was struck by this comment from Daily Kos Contributing Editor Meteor Blades:

I think one aspect of the disconnect is not knowing how to exert whatever clout we have as effectively in the majority as in opposition. And this will, I believe, become more obvious, and perhaps worse if and when a Dem wins the White House. The key, in my view, is for us to act as a perpetual opposition, within the party as well as a scourge against the Republicans.

This is where Markos and I diverge. He has always said ours isn't an ideological fight, but rather an effort to install Democrats who themselves fight. In truth, it is an ideological battle, as the FISA vote and the discussion around Obama's foreign policy speech and statements have proved, just to point out two examples of many.

I have always believed, and will continue to believe, that the ideological fight must run in tandem with the fight to elected the best possible candidates to wield electoral power, while recognizing that those best will be hampered by "establishment values" of the party in which most of them reside - define those values how you will. For me, however, the real fight, the long-term fight, the paradigm-shifting fight, lies outside party politics.

This is a great comment but I disagree with Meteor Blades' conclusion that the fight lies outside party politics. I think it lies in concentrating on the issues but also concentrating on INTRA-party politics and primaries. I'll explain on the flip.

We live in a nation that is and will be dominated by 2 parties. The only manner available for pushing change on issues is to have your view championed within one of the 2 parties. The idea of the Republican Party championing any progressive issues is so ridiculous it is not even worthy of discussion. By default, there is one party for progressives to fight for - the Democratic Party. So the question is how? There are many ways to do this. The first and most obvious and principal way is primaries.

But it is not just primaries. It is also a function of paying attention to issues. Like FISA. Like Iraq. Like SCOTUS nominations. And a willingness to criticize Democrats on the issues.

Clearly, at the end of the day, Election Day, progressives will support Democratic candidates, either enthusiastically or as the lesser of two evils. But before then, progressives and the Netroots need to fight for issues, and fight for candidates who fight for their issues, and only when the General Election choice is upon us, should we focus PRIMARILY on the issues we care about.

When we do this we will find a lot of candidates who will fight for those issues we care about, either for a primary or for the General Election. This has been my attitude on the Presidential race. I have been fighting on the issues I care about and I notice the candidates who have been fighting on those issues too. It is how I settled on Chris Dodd as my candidate. Too often progressives and the Netroots have attached themselves to a candidate and then adaptede the issues concerns to match that of their preferred candidate. Or even worse, have dedicated themeselves to blogging the horserace. This is surely not the way to have impact on the issues.

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    As I said in eugene's diary (none / 0) (#1)
    by andgarden on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 11:57:47 AM EST
    These last six months have taught me a good deal about the limits of partisanship. I agree with everything you say here, and I am newly energized about primary challenges.

    Please apply your reasoning to Tester and Webb. (none / 0) (#2)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 12:32:32 PM EST
    before the last election.  

    See this post (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 12:37:29 PM EST
    link:

    I want to introduce my own concept of political space time curvature to help us better understand the Politics of Contrast (or Definition, as Texeira and Halpin call it) and the need for a Big Tent Democratic Party. Earlier, I wrote:

    Texeira and Halpin are not writing a specific proposal for the 2006 election -- they have properly idenitfied one of the key long term problems of the Democratic Party, the ability to shape its image and brand has been hijacked by the Republican Party and Democrats have allowed Republicans to completely control the branding of their own party with no resistance from the Democratic Party.

    Texeira and Halpin have identified the problem and, in my opinion, provided very good and workable proposals for attacking the problem. Full disclosure, much of what Texeira and Halpin talk about are ideas I have endorsed for 18 months. Those who know my work from daily kos will no doubt find some of these ideas familiar - The Politics of Contrast, Lincoln 1860, The Party of Dobson, Extremist Republicans. Those themes have been central to much of my writing on Democratic Party politics.

    I would like to expand on this idea, incorporating "political space-time curvature." Let's recall T&H's 5 postulates:

    (1) The starting point for all political organizing and campaigns should be: "What are my core beliefs and principles and how do I best explain them to supporters and skeptics alike?"
            (2) Every political battle, both proactive and defensive, should represent a basic statement of progressive character and present a clear, concise contrast with conservatives. Do not blur lines.
            (3) All issue campaigns and agenda items are not equal. Progressives should focus their efforts on issues that can simultaneously strengthen the base and appeal to centrist voters. Progressives must be willing to make sacrifices and tradeoffs -- in terms of coalition building and budgetary concerns -- to achieve their most important agenda items.
            (4) Escalate battles that expose the extremism of the right or splinter their coalition. [Follow-up: When confronted with the right's social, cultural, or national security agenda, the absolute worst response is to fail to combat these caricatures or to explain one's position directly to voters, regardless of the popularity of the position.]
            (5) Every political action should highlight three essential progressive attributes: a clear stand on the side of those who lack power, wealth or influence; a deep commitment to the common good; and a strong belief in fairness and opportunity for all.

    As general themes and principles, these postulates can be applied in every region of the nation. But they will not lead to uniform specific issue positions for Democrats everywhere.  The political gravity or, "political space time curvature" in Nebraska or Mississippi is different from that in say, Rhode Island. But the progressive or Democratic position in each of these locations can clearly be discerned and is the position for Democrats to follow in each of them.

    So how do we determine what the political gravity is in the locales and how do we determine the "progressive position?" How do we determine how far progressives can push? What is the velocity of progressivism and where does it stand across the Nation? . . .



    Parent
    Moneyball. Do your research and (none / 0) (#4)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 01:04:37 PM EST
    take your chances.  

    Parent
    I don;t understand (none / 0) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 02:37:24 PM EST
    your comment

    Parent
    Baseball analogy--statistics rule. (none / 0) (#19)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 12:53:56 AM EST
    I interpreted your comment and link to mean a voter should check out the candidates as much as possible, vote for the one most likely to represent the voter's views once elected, and hope for the best with no guarantees.

    Parent
    Yep. Good stuff A. (none / 0) (#12)
    by bronte17 on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 03:20:02 PM EST
    Determining the political gravity and where to push.

    You going to reexamine those three parts you previously posted on this?  And what happened to Part Three.  I didn't find it while looking through your old posts over at dkos.


    Parent

    Part 3 (none / 0) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 04:11:37 PM EST
    was never completed because it was going to be about the 2006 elections.

    I think I'll do it for the 2008 elections.

    Parent

    Partisan (none / 0) (#5)
    by BDB on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 01:06:15 PM EST
    I think partisanship is absolutely the key.  We have to fight to get the best Democrats nominated for office, even if that means taking on current Democratic officeholders (at least where doing so wouldn't result in a party switch because Republicans are worse right now).  But we also need to keep the national Democratic party focused on discrediting the current neocon/winger dominated Republican party.  Caving on things like FISA is not helping in this regard.

    The neocons have waited decades to take over the Republican party.  They would rise, be discredited, then go back to their think tanks only to attack again.  Exhibit A, Elliot Abrams.  Each time they've come back stronger.  But, IMO, they've finally overplayed their hand and we need to take this opportunity to discredit them once and for all so that the Republican party can rebuild itself.  I have no problem with a Republican party that wants a smaller government, less government powers, etc.  I may not agree with it, but I do think it's unhealthy to have only one political party and having a debate over government's role is a good thing and if Dems can't win those debates then shame on us.  The problem is that it's also unhealthy to have one of the two parties be dominated by nutcases, which is what we have now.

    One of the reasons I'm leery about Obama is my fear that we'll get the neocon/winger Republicans down and he'll let them up off the mat with a handshake and a promise to be better boys the next time.  They won't be.  Whereas I tend to think any plea for mercy to either John Edwards or Hillary Clinton would be not only ignored, but met with them running their sword through.

    The Bill of Rights and interest groups (none / 0) (#6)
    by joejoejoe on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 01:39:02 PM EST
    The Democratic coalition groups don't fight for the Bill of Rights unless their own favorite amendment is  threatened. Where are the pro-choice groups when the Fourth Amendment is being gutted? Doesn't this FISA collapse point to grave problems with the entire concept of privacy? Why do first amendment groups not fight for other amendments? The ACLU can't be the only group with a dog in this fight.

    A vigorous defense of the Bill of Rights (all of them, including the 2nd) and the Constitution should be central to being a Democrat. I think much of the GOP view of the Constitution and "activist judges" and originalism is entirely bogus but at least the Republicans HAVE a view of the Constitution. A significant minority of the Democratic Party appears to have no view on the Constitution other than doing what is politically expedient in the most narrow short term self interest. That approach has been a disaster.

    How did you arrive at this? (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Ellie on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 02:04:42 PM EST
    Just curious:

    <blockquotes>The Democratic coalition groups don't fight for the Bill of Rights unless their own favorite amendment is threatened.</blockquotes>

    I've never actually met a single voter who embodies this, and while various groups might have a focused mandate, the implication that its members have only that particular focus doesn't bear out.

    Parent

    ACLU and NARAL (none / 0) (#11)
    by joejoejoe on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 02:48:10 PM EST
    It's just an offhand thought. If the Fourth Amendment is an underpinning of the "right to privacy" and it's gutted then this FISA law is a treat to the pro-choice movement. The legal justifications are interrelated, no?

    It's not something I've thought out in great detail nor am I a lawyer. I just think if you could make defending the Bill of Rights a reflexive behavior of the Democratic coalition caving in individual cases like this latest FISA bill would be less common.

    I'm fairly engaged and the details of this bill take some work to digest. For people with less time it would be easier if you could just trigger a response "The Bill of Rights is in danger!" and sound the alarm and ALL the coaltion groups would step up - the ACLU, Labor, technology companies, pro-choice groups, civil rights groups. Instead Dems try to reason their way through an emotional "The sky is falling!" debate and get beat time and time again.

    Parent

    Your problem with NARAL makes no sense (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Ellie on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 04:04:16 PM EST
    You really need to explain what your problem is with a mandate to protect a woman's inalienable right to make personal medical and moral decisions without persecution by fanatics who have no legal standing or moral right to harass her.

    How is NARAL jeopardizing a broad protection of the Bill of Rights? Why would you choose to drag NARAL out as a symbol of disunity or as a problem generally?

    Parent

    I'm not trying to do that (none / 0) (#15)
    by joejoejoe on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 04:53:28 PM EST
    I picked the pro-choice movement because it's one of the strongest components of the Democratic coaliton, not to pick on NARAL. I have zero problem with NARAL's mission or goals - I support their mission and I'm not trying to cast them in a negative light.

    I'm suggesting that it's easier to put out a call to all members of the Democratic coaliton that there is  a threat to the Bill of Rights than it is to make the case by case argument on a detailed reading of the merits of each legal case. Most members of Congress didn't even read or understand this FISA bill so it's a losing strategy to try and explain all the reasons it was bad to voters who aren't going to grasp every detail.

    Pro-choice voters DO grasp that assaults on the right to privacy and the Fourth Amendment are a threat to choice. Groups like the Electronic Frontier Foundation DON'T go step up to fight privacy battles when choice is at issue. What I'm trying to get at is all of the interests under the Democratic umbrella would be well served to have a reflexive response in favor of protecting the Bill of Rights. If single interest groups made defending the bill of rights part of their mission  I think Democrats wouldn't see so many defenctions. It's not enough that only the ACLU has that mission.

    I'm not saying the individual interests are wrong to focus on their specific issue but the Right is unified in undermining liberty rights while the Left is responding in an ad hoc basis in the same fights. It's not working in my view.

    Parent

    We are to blame (none / 0) (#8)
    by koshembos on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 02:07:46 PM EST
    FISA is a logical conclusion of the terrorism hysteria that Bush succeeded in spreading thickly over the country. Once the "war on terrorism" was accepted, there is little an elected official from an iffy state can do.

    The Netroots did precious little to move the country towards the sensible treatment of terrorism as a police action. (Britain and even Israel don't see terror as a war.) Netroots didn't forcefully claim that the Bush war is against the American people and not terrorism.

    The war in Afghanistan ended. Iraq is not a war (there is no enemy we fight there); it's a military adventure that was initiated in order to eternalize a Republican majority. Therefore, if Iraq is a war it is a war against the American people. The Netroots didn't make a big issue of that either.

    Those Are Long Term Goals (none / 0) (#9)
    by scarysh*t on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 02:34:51 PM EST
    What do we do RIGHT NOW?  

    I am so serious here, we start calling for the Democratic leadership of the House and Senate to step down, and call for new elections of leaders.  If these guys are going home for the next month, that is a perfect opportunity for all of the "Netroots" to get off their computers and call their  congressional representatives.  Or better yet, go to their office in person or show up at any public events they might have in your district, and let them know about your unhappiness with the FISA bill and the Democratic congressional leadership.  

    Somehow the right-wings equivalent of the "Netroots" managed to stop the immigration bill with their pressure tactics.  Writing on blogs is fun, but real life organizing and political pressure are what makes political changes.


    This is good (none / 0) (#16)
    by Alien Abductee on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 05:23:59 PM EST
    The shortcomings of Markos's nonideological approach have been clear for a while, but now they're inarguable. This use of a candidate on your chosen issues as a pressure tactic against the others seems like a good practical strategy for raising the profile of those issues against the constant tide of personality politics and of candidates being allowed to weasel out of taking a stand. Much more effective than just compromising and settling for the whole candidate as a more general expression of your wishes and outlook, not to mention your views on their electability.

    But before then, progressives and the Netroots need to fight for issues, and fight for candidates who fight for their issues

    To follow your strategy though I'd probably have to start actively supporting Dennis "reform our defense programs to accurately reflect current threats" Kucinich. Not sure I'm quite up to it.

    Dealing with a two-party system (none / 0) (#17)
    by Scarabus on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 05:50:00 PM EST
    I agree that we have to work with the two-party system. After all, the most recent third-party candidate, Ralph Nader, put George Bush in the White House. Not good! (BTW: Any big brains out there who can speculate about what the effect of an independent Bloomberg candidacy might be? Should we ask Tweety how Bloomberg smells?)

    But even within the two-party system, there is room for ideologically-defined "caucuses." Why not have a "progressive, pro-constitutional, anti-despotic" caucus? Elect candidates who swear allegiance, not just to "Democrats," but to democracy itself? United, we have some "oooompf"! Divided...? We're herded like complacent sheep to support the neo-con plutocratic agenda.

    Something not to forget (none / 0) (#18)
    by chemoelectric on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 10:20:50 PM EST
    There is also something very basic, which is we need candidates who don't care a great deal what people are going to say about them--without retreating into a fantasy world, the way W does. People who you can call skunks and they say 'I can live with that'.

    Where do we go from here --- an accidental war (none / 0) (#20)
    by rmirman on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 01:39:34 AM EST
    This is something we should be making a big fuss about:

    It is amazing that it is the US policy to increase the chances of
    accidental nuclear war. This has been commented on in depth in my
    blog. Why isn't anyone doing anything about this insanity? We should start a campaign to change the policy. I think the arguments in my blog can help. Or would you prefer that we all be annihilated? It is not only Bush, it is all those who can act, like you, but are not.

    RM

    --
    click on

    Science blog
    impunv.wordpress.com
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    impunv.blogspot.com

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    randomabsurdities.wordpress.com