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Wednesday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:55:03 AM EST
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I'll be offline much of the day and evening as I'm in the process of moving my home. Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

Thanks to all of you who contributed to TalkLeft on Monday, I'll be sending out individual thank-you emails next week. Your donations are much appreciated.

For me, the big news so far today is John Edwards dropping out of the presidential race. It means tomorrow night's debate will just be between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. Pretty high stakes for both of them.

< John Edwards Dropping Out | Who Should Clinton Or Obama Choose As VP? >

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    Wednesday Open Thread | 85 comments (85 topical)

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    Class (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 12:13:09 PM EST
    So Hillary's web page today has a great picture of John and Elizabeth Edwards waiving and the banner reads: We Salute John and Elizabeth Edwards. Obama....nada. So much for unity.

    Mukasey: Waterboarding is relative (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 01:17:32 PM EST
    Per TPM
    Michael Mukasey finally got into the nitty gritty of how he thinks about torture, and he seemed to finally show his hand.

    Sen. Joe Biden (D-DE) said that he'd been getting the impression that Mukasey really thought about torture in relative terms, and wanted to know if that was so. Is it OK to waterboard someone if a nuclear weapon was hidden -- the Jack Bauer scenario -- but not OK to waterboard someone for more pedestrian information?

    Mukasey responded that it was "not simply a relative issue," but there "is a statute where it is a relative issue," he added, citing the Detainee Treatment Act. That law engages the "shocks the conscience" standard, he explained, and you have to "balance the value of doing something against the cost of doing it."

    I guess he was not the stand up guy he was portrayed. Just another Bushie.

    Obama says Rumsfeld "Mainstream" (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Kathy on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 03:13:15 PM EST
    Holy crap

    "I dont think that soon-to-be-Secretary Rumsfeld is in any way out of the mainstream of American political life. And I would argue that the same would be true for the vast majority of the Bush nominees, and I give him credit for that."

    THERE IS FOOTAGE OF THIS.

    Thank you, Jake Tapper, the only reporter who is really reporting.

    "The underlying question that this clip raises with me is -- what else is there about Obama that we don't know about? What other clips? What other comments?

    Obama is on the cusp of doing well on Super Duper Tuesday and has still never had a negative TV ad run against him, and it seems clear that Hillary Clinton is correct in her implication -- he has not been fully "vetted."

    There's a lot voters -- and the media -- do not know about him.

    OMG thats huge!!!!! (5.00 / 0) (#29)
    by athyrio on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 03:16:42 PM EST
    Obama is not progressive whatsoever based on that statement

    Parent
    athyrio!!!! (none / 0) (#30)
    by Kathy on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 03:21:10 PM EST
    THANK YOU!!!!  I am home all alone and I was giddy with excitement waiting for someone to validate me!

    (yeah, I'm pathetic.  What's it to you?)

    Parent

    how can we spread the word about this?? (none / 0) (#31)
    by athyrio on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 03:24:57 PM EST


    Parent
    spread the word? (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Kathy on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 03:35:18 PM EST
    Are you kidding me?  I just learned to link!

    My cousin was reduced to tears this morning after dealing with Josh at TPM (note to anyone who might have some criticism of TPM: save yourself the trouble)

    Ooh!  Ooh!  Taylor Marsh (or, "the hack Taylor Marsh," as she is known by folks who hate her)

    Off to spread the word.  At least to Taylor Marsh.

    Parent

    You mean spread the word that (none / 0) (#33)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 03:35:28 PM EST
    in early 2001, 9 months or so before 9/11 et al, Illinois state senator Obama agreed with every single Dem in the US senate that Rummy should be confirmed?

    Parent
    I'm not saying (4.00 / 0) (#36)
    by Kathy on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 03:56:42 PM EST
    they didn't vote for the guy, but he's the one who was filmed pontificating, as usual, like he's a law professor instead of a political candidate.  For example:

    "if he came before us and said I oppose a woman's right to choose, or I oppose abortion, I find it religiously offensive, and yet I do respect, for example, the notion that we shouldn't be solving these things with violence, historically, if that had been what was said, then I don't think I would object..."

    He would not object to someone who said abortion was wrong so long as the person was nice about it.

    Just goes to prove: Obama loves the sound of his own voice.  This is just like the Reagan thing.  Someone needs to tell him to shut up on this crap.

    Parent

    He certainly does like the sound of his own voice. (none / 0) (#38)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 04:01:37 PM EST
    He would not object to someone who said abortion was wrong so long as the person was nice about it.
    Is that what he said? I couldn't make any sense out of it...

    Parent
    that's how I read it (none / 0) (#39)
    by Kathy on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 04:08:32 PM EST
    Though you are right, and point out my biggest problem with Obama as Candidate (not as person, mind you, because I am always game for a philosophical discussion).  He NEVER says anything directly.  He always leaves a backdoor open.  Classic "what Obama meant" territory.

    Parent
    Not A Biggie (none / 0) (#37)
    by squeaky on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 03:58:45 PM EST
    Clinton Voted for him and Obama called for his head in '06:

    Another Illinois Democrat, Sen. Barack Obama, has suggested Rumsfeld should go.

    "If the president wants to continue to be saddled by somebody who the military thinks is ineffective, then that is his authority as commander in chief, but I think it's one more bit of bad judgment" Obama said Monday.

    link

    And as for Jake Tapper:

    On the January 16 edition of ABC's Nightline, during a report on Sen. Barack Obama's (D-IL) decision to form a presidential exploratory committee, ABC News senior national correspondent Jake Tapper referred to Obama as "Barack Hussein Obama" and asked: "Just who the hell is Barack Obama?

    Media Matters

    Another partisan hack posing as a reporter.

    Parent

    Barack Hussein Obama (1.00 / 0) (#55)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:53:14 AM EST
    Good grief.

    That's his name. Are you ashamed of it??

    Parent

    Muhammed Ali (5.00 / 0) (#73)
    by jondee on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 04:25:51 PM EST
    Can we get a detail of Minutemen to keep an eye on THAT guy?

    Inquiring ditto/pinheads want to know.

    Parent

    why is (none / 0) (#40)
    by Kathy on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 04:11:16 PM EST
    referring to Obama's middle name, at the point that Tapper did, considered bad reporting?  

    I suppose this goes back to the original problem between camps, which is that we read things the way we want to.  I have stopped giving Obama the benefit of the doubt.  I'm sorry.  I wish I could be better about it, but my willing suspension has been sorely tested by some of his comments, which have had to be explained again and again and again.  That is NOT how a politician should operate.

    I will still vote for him if he wins the nom, of course, but this sort of crap is what keeps biting him in the behind.

    Parent

    There Are Plenty (none / 0) (#41)
    by squeaky on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 04:15:29 PM EST
    Of quotes circulating about Hillary, that also misrepresent her current positions.

    It is bad business imo, to play the swiftboater card no matter who you are rooting for.

    Parent

    Why The Middle Name (none / 0) (#42)
    by squeaky on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 04:29:55 PM EST
    Ask Tapper:

    "Why Did Bob Kerrey Mention Obama's Middle Name -- 'Hussein.'



    Parent
    swiftboating? (none / 0) (#46)
    by Kathy on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 04:52:05 PM EST
    I would hardly call it that.  It's based on his own words, yet again, where he says something that can be interpreted a hundred different ways.  Spinning I would grant you, but swiftboating, to me, is extreme and inflammatory.  Swiftboating is calling Max Cleland stupid for catching a grenade instead of a war hero.  Swiftboating is getting people to smear and outright lie about your opponent.  This, to me, is none of that.

    I'm sorry, but no one is going to be following Obama around during the general election politely explaining what he really meant when he said something.

    That's my point: he's not seasoned enough for the race.

    Obviously, we disagree on this, and I respect your opinion as I hope you respect mine.


    Parent

    Whatever (5.00 / 0) (#51)
    by squeaky on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 06:13:31 PM EST
    Very thin gruel.

    Hillary who was on the armed service committee actually voted for Rumsfeld does nothing for Hillary. Obama did not. Which is worse? Hindsight is 20/20.

    I do not see how or why making Obama bad is necessary, especially with such silly stuff. Hillary is fine without that kind of support.

    And yes I do see it as swiftboating because the mainstream did not have a problem with Rumsfeld back then. I hated all of Bush's appointments, as I am sure you did, but we did not represent the mainstream in 2001. If we did Bush would not have been president and Congress would have been mostly Democrats.
     

    Parent

    heh (1.00 / 0) (#60)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 10:09:13 AM EST
    I hated all of Bush's appointments,

    There's that word again.

    Parent

    Web Woman Hate: Maya Angelou (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 03:38:35 PM EST
    I was just listening to this African American woman bloggerWhat About Our Daughters, exposing the hate levels from the factions. Maya Angelou endorsed Hillary and this was the upshot from another blog, I will let you see it and tell me what you think: Bossip I am really concerned about the mob anti woman anonymous trend.

    Stellaaa (none / 0) (#69)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 02:16:02 PM EST
    If this person is an African American blogger, am I
    a Scot-Irish English Hungarian French Cree American Blogger??

    Inquiring minds want to know

    Parent

    Hillary and the band (5.00 / 0) (#43)
    by athyrio on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 04:31:25 PM EST
    I love this video

    What of the blogpundits (none / 0) (#1)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:07:51 AM EST
    after this election it seems to me that a number of major blogs have ruined their credibility. Now I will question their analysis. Do you guys think that it was within the genre to take such a partisan stance? Do I have a right to be critical? Is this the form of the genre?

    Most didn't have (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by spit on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 11:18:23 AM EST
    great credibility with me in the first place, or not since the original pie war, at least.

    But they used to at least strive to be basically intellectually honest, most of the time. No longer.

    Parent

    Josh Marshall (5.00 / 0) (#25)
    by BernieO on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 03:00:11 PM EST
    had a lot of credibility because of his uncovering of the Justice Department scandal, but he is really biased now. However, if you read today's dailyhowler.com Bob Somerby calls him out for past idiocy. It is well worth a read. So is the Washington Post article that he links to about tax cuts and revenues. I urge everyone to read this, too, and send it to other dems. It is unbelievable that these lies have been allowed to stand by our party and most of the media.

    Parent
    Did they ever have (none / 0) (#2)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:16:57 AM EST
    any creditability??

    Blogs are about opinions, not facts. The good ones try and keep the basic facts straight and not knowingly pass on false information, or let themselves be used by people who are passing on false information.

    But blogs aren't "newspapers."

    and newspapers (none / 0) (#7)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:25:00 AM EST
    have not been newspapers for at least 10 years, maybe 15. MSM, including print have been boosters for establishment contributing to their slow, painful death.

    Show me a paper with increased circulation in the past ten years other than the enquirer.

    I think Judith Miller is a fine example of how newspapers have become a tool for politicians.  In fact, most MSM do an excellent job at investigating crime stories and a horsepucky job at covering politics because they have to submit the questions they are going to ask prior to the interview.

    If i want to know about a dead blonde I watch the news, if I want to know something about a candidate, the information available in blogs is far superior to that in the MSM.

    Parent

    but most blogs (none / 0) (#8)
    by Judith on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:27:48 AM EST
    are quoting something from the MSM.  So it is a weird cycle.

    Parent
    That's my point (1.00 / 0) (#49)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 05:06:34 PM EST
    The blogs quote other blogs who quote the newspapers who quote the blogs. It's incest, pure and simple.

    And most political reporting isn't about issues, but about who out smarted who in some media event. Somehow being told that Hillary out pointed Obama doesn't answer the question of how she will outsmart the terrorists...

    Parent

    And your point is what??? (1.00 / 0) (#54)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:47:19 AM EST
    That national defense won't be an issue in the GE?

    Good grief.

    And yes, her surrender policy in Iraq will come back to haunt her, just as Obama's comment re being against a missile defense system will come back to haunt him.

    Enjoy this commercial I envision if BHO wins.

    tehe

    Parent

    If I were you, I would be more worried about the (5.00 / 0) (#56)
    by Molly Bloom on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:57:42 AM EST
    anti-McCain commercial that will be:

    Iraq today, Iraq tomorrow, Iraq forevevah! In case you haven't notice, the majority of voters want out of Iraq. They don't want to stay forevavh! Its the anchor thrown by Bush around the GOP's neck.

    Then there is McCain, same as Bush, except older and no wiser.

    Parent

    Your problem (1.00 / 0) (#59)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 10:03:23 AM EST
    is that the surge is working and the war is no longer an issue.

    You should worry that the Repubs won't trot out a bunch of "I surrender!" clips.

    Come to think of it, that's a given.

    tehe

    Parent

    It's not a war no more.... (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 10:56:24 AM EST
    it hasn't been since Saddam was desposed of, it's an occupation now.

    And it's an issue till it's over and we are off their land.

    Parent

    It never was a "war." (1.00 / 1) (#63)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 12:43:39 PM EST
    It is a battle in the War on Terror.

    Within the battle we have various sized skirmishes.

    Parent

    Oh yeah..... (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 01:14:21 PM EST
    I forgot we are waging war on a tactic, not a defined enemy.

    How convenient for those who benefit from perpetual war.  "Terror", like "Drugs", is incapable of surrender.

    Parent

    A battle in the War on Terror? (5.00 / 0) (#70)
    by Edger on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 02:21:00 PM EST
    You're right.

    And you and the rest of terrorists have lost.

    Oh.... and blogs are about opinions, not facts?

    Was there anything else you're terrified of?

    Parent

    So where are the Iraqi's taking (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by Molly Bloom on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 11:25:14 AM EST
    over responsibility for their own affairs. That was the purpose of the surge. What happens now that the surge has ended?  The surge worked? Great!  So when we can begin the drawdown of troops?

    Jim,

    you are  utterly incapable of recognizing anything that the big boys don't tell you.
    Face it you have been duped. You too believe in Iraq today, Iraq tomorrow, Iraq foreveah!

    Parent
    Patience litte one (1.00 / 1) (#64)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 12:46:28 PM EST
    You forget how long AFTER the battles were over that Germany and Japan took over and started "running" their country.


    Parent
    Is the Kool Aide orange or grape? (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Molly Bloom on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 01:57:45 PM EST
    I know you don't want to hear this (in fact in my imagination you are covering your ears and going LA LA LA in a loud voice) but those are not valid comparisons.

    The better comparison is the conflict where surge was called escalation, where turning over responsibility was known as V....ization. Perhaps you have some memory of this?

    I know the big boys haven't told you what to think yet, so you are just spinning like a driedle

    Parent

    hehe (1.00 / 1) (#78)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 09:26:26 PM EST
    You have an imagination?

    Who would have thought?

    If you want to call it escalation go ahead.

    The important thing is that it worked.

    Parent

    Worked? (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 07:00:42 AM EST
    So where are Iraqi's taking the over responsibility for their own affairs. That was the purpose of the surge. What happens now that the surge has ended?  The surge worked? Great!  So when we can begin the drawdown of troops?

    Face it you have been duped. You too believe in Iraq today, Iraq tomorrow, Iraq foreveah!

    The big boys haven't told you how to answer this, so you just keep parroting "It worked!, It worked!" To what end, pray tell?

    Yep your hands must be covering your ears, cause you definitely can't handle the truth.

    Parent

    Tell me how the surge is working (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 01:04:12 PM EST
    proof please ;)

    Parent
    Tell me how it is not. (1.00 / 2) (#68)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 02:12:40 PM EST
    Tracy, you are fully invested in the anti-war movement so telling you anything positive about the war is a total waste of time.

    Now, go find Cindy and you two can run around shouting,"I surrender! I surrender!"

    hehe

    Parent

    You made the claim. (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Edger on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 02:22:27 PM EST
    Back it up.

    Parent
    I also claim the sun will come up in the morning. (1.00 / 1) (#77)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 09:22:57 PM EST
    If you are dumb enough to disagree, then be my guest.

    And if you can't believe John Murtha, who can you believe?

    T

    he Senate re-opened for business on Monday after a two-week Thanksgiving
    break, during which key Democrats traveled to Iraq and declared that the surge
    is working, at least from a security and military perspective. Rep. John Murtha
    (D-Pa.), one the top war critics, stunned fellow Democrats late last week with
    his statement that "the surge is working," even though he added that political
    reconciliation has been lagging. Murtha's view was backed by Rep. Norm Dicks
    (D-Wash.), who also said the surge worked after he returned from Iraq.

    Link

    Parent

    Sure. (5.00 / 0) (#79)
    by Edger on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 09:54:51 PM EST
    Of course it is.

    The Easter Bunny and Santa and the Tooth Fairy are real too. And Bush has a brain... It's such a cute little thing, too. But he didn't need much of one to sell you, did he?

    Parent

    hehe (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by jondee on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 04:19:07 PM EST
    Hark! The mating call of chickenhawkus americanus.

    Still of enjoying the vicarious thrill of pushing twenty year olds between himself and the line of fire. Perusual.

    Tehe.

    Parent

    hehehehe (1.00 / 1) (#76)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 09:18:01 PM EST
    I did my 10 years.

    Where were you hiding between protesting against the draft??

    Parent

    Jondee was probably (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by Edger on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 04:48:04 PM EST
    advocating a concept foreign to you, ppj.

    Keeping 20 year olds alive instead of advocating sacrificing them to your fears.

    Parent

    I have a real concept (1.00 / 0) (#84)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 05:49:37 PM EST
    for both of you.

    Patriotism. Service. Responsibility.

    Try it sometimes. Grasp the fact there are things in life bigger than your ego.

    Parent

    Patriotism. Service. (5.00 / 0) (#86)
    by Edger on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 07:48:27 PM EST
    Responsibility.

    Just like President AWOL, you mean.

    When are you shipping out?

    Parent

    Dont worry (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by jondee on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 05:22:05 PM EST
    "the Left and the MSM" wont let them.

    That anti-American cabal has so much power. Why, just look at the way they ganged up on Rudy!

    lol

    Parent

    More Like Just a Target (5.00 / 0) (#82)
    by squeaky on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:31:26 AM EST
    you obviously think of as your target audience


    Parent
    Please provide a link (1.00 / 0) (#85)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 05:54:11 PM EST
    to the midterm predictions I made.

    You won't because, as I have shown time and again, you are wrong.

    You have become squeaky.

    Posted by Squeaky at September 19, 2005 11:19 PM
    Rove never needed proof for his smear machine, why should I.


    Parent
    More (none / 0) (#88)
    by squeaky on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 01:00:17 AM EST
    Shorter, the Repubs must be laughing as they watch the Demos let people lose the election.

    link

    link

    Will it harm the Demo's chance at winning the House and the Senate? Probably.

    link

    et al - And a fine Sunday morning to you! Rudy will get the nomination and beat Hillary.

    link

    Parent

    Whatever I found (none / 0) (#10)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 11:06:15 AM EST
    I had to dig and scrounge. I am retired so I have the will and the time. But man, the more info we have the more it gets twisted.

    Parent
    i dont have time anymore (none / 0) (#12)
    by Judith on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 11:17:52 AM EST
    but when i did, I read everything the MSM had out there...a grain of truth in all of them was what I used to build a perspective.

    Parent
    This cycle (none / 0) (#11)
    by spit on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 11:15:13 AM EST
    I don't think I agree. I think most of the blogs have turned into a pundit show with more pundits and worse language.

    I stopped trusting almost anything posted to a blog about any candidate quite a while ago. Where do I wind up researching the actual positions, quotes, or events? Often, the newspaper.

    Strange turn of events, really.

    Parent

    Hmmm (none / 0) (#47)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 05:01:09 PM EST
    And I left out the MSM and the cable news networks..

    While I agree it is easy to see the bias coming from both sides, they still have some small amount of fact reporting left.

    Sorry to say, the blogs don't match up. Think over the past year. Plus, most of the blogs don't have the money or other resources to improve.

    I don't find that bad, just a fact.

    Parent

    nader (none / 0) (#3)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:17:13 AM EST
    what if he runs, will he offset dem votes again?

    He's got my vote if he runs..... (none / 0) (#9)
    by kdog on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:43:28 AM EST
    Nader, Kubby, Paul as an independent, Bloomberg.

    Basically anybody but a D or an R.

    I'm sure I'm not alone bro.

    Just don't blame me and my ilk if the D loses...it's their own damn fault for being a party of pikers.

    Parent

    kdog, Jl, (none / 0) (#14)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 11:25:36 AM EST
    weren't you two trying to meet for a coffee or something last weekend? Did it work out?

    Parent
    Nah..... (none / 0) (#22)
    by kdog on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 01:24:50 PM EST
    J had a limited time frame and I wasn't available.  Hopefully the next time he is in town we'll make it happen.

    Parent
    I gave him all of 60 minutes notice (none / 0) (#23)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 01:47:35 PM EST
    I will be there next month....

    SUO, you are in CA right?  I only make it there 2x a year but wouldn't mind grabbing some joe with you either...I promise to give at least 90 minutes of notice  lol

    Parent

    LA my friend, let me know. (none / 0) (#24)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:04:14 PM EST


    Parent
    WOW! (none / 0) (#74)
    by Patrick on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 04:30:25 PM EST
    Some names I actually recognize.  Have you all noticed that this place is getting whole lot bigger?  I hope it's an election symptom and TL will be back to itself after Nov.

    Parent
    Carter endorses Obama (none / 0) (#4)
    by burnedoutdem on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:19:02 AM EST
    Go Peanut Power!

    back here and lying again (5.00 / 0) (#5)
    by Judith on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:24:21 AM EST
    great.

    Parent
    not true (5.00 / 0) (#27)
    by athyrio on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 03:13:26 PM EST
    Carter said he was goin to remain neutral but members of his family were leaning towards Obama...big difference...

    Parent
    HRC (none / 0) (#6)
    by Judith on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:24:55 AM EST
    speech in Florida -anybody know where I can see it?

    The transcript (none / 0) (#16)
    by ding7777 on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 11:41:34 AM EST
    is at the New York Times

    Parent
    thanks (none / 0) (#19)
    by Judith on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 12:23:04 PM EST
    wanted to see it...

    but read it must be...

    Parent

    This being circulated by the Obama camp. (none / 0) (#15)
    by ding7777 on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 11:37:02 AM EST
    But only the bolded part is being circulated:

    When I asked Bendixen about the source of Clinton's strength in the Hispanic community, he mentioned her support for health care, and Hispanic voters' affinity for the Clinton era. "It's one group where going back to the past really works," he said. "All you need to say in focus groups is `Let's go back to the nineties.' " But he was also frank about the fact that the Clintons, long beloved in the black community, are now dependent on a less edifying political dynamic: "The Hispanic voter--and I want to say this very carefully--has not shown a lot of willingness or affinity to support black candidates.
    The New Yorker
    "

    Sergio Bendixen is Hillary's Hispanic pollster.

    And Kos is stroking this as "one that is genuinely disturbing and potentially damaging to our nation" on the front page.

    Good grief! Has Kos started channeling Rudy for the most outlandish comment of the day?

    They are marginalized (none / 0) (#17)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 11:57:28 AM EST
    We gave them a pass cause we shared a hate of Bush, but now we will see. What annoys me is that they have lots of young readers who do not know hot to go to sources and how to ask questions. There is this, I agree with him, so I will let him do the analysis. Truly dangerous.

    Parent
    Daily Gallup poll (none / 0) (#20)
    by commissar on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 12:45:23 PM EST
    Obama closing the gap.

    6 points on 3-day rolling average. "a few points" in  last night's sample.

    The change is within the MOE (none / 0) (#45)
    by RalphB on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 04:48:44 PM EST


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    ps (none / 0) (#28)
    by Kathy on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 03:13:49 PM EST
    the "crap" part is the link.  Hee hee!  I learned to link!

    And I hope this belongs here.  If not, Jeralyn and BTD, I am sorry.  Don't kill me!

    btw, nice job on the link! (none / 0) (#34)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 03:36:11 PM EST


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    thank you (none / 0) (#52)
    by Kathy on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:40:51 PM EST
    it was my first link.

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    My first link... (none / 0) (#57)
    by cannondaddy on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 09:00:05 AM EST
    I'm learning too. This should be a link to the Realclear daily polls, This is why I think about Handshakegate is overblown.

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    Yes It Is Obvious (none / 0) (#58)
    by squeaky on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 09:21:57 AM EST
    Thanks for the breath of fresh air. I think it is wasted on the fevered who can not imagine Hillary to ever snub or be less than gracious.

    Can't imagine what they would do with the Vanity Fair article about Clintons and Gore. Probably petition to rename the mag Vanity UnFair.

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    Tavis Smiley poses great question (none / 0) (#44)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 04:45:22 PM EST
    His question to Ted, why do the majority of white males go for Obama and why does the majority of the Black caucus go for Hillary. Watch TED dance. I heard a comment today: Obama has fans Hillary has allies. Ted on Tavis Smiley

    They also have those (none / 0) (#48)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 05:03:40 PM EST
    who are neither fans nor allies. What's the opposite of an ally?

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    Yes enemies (none / 0) (#50)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 05:10:35 PM EST
    The old saying is if you never made enemies in politics, well, you never done nothing. (the People who hate the Clintons story, great article in the Daily Howler today)

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    Wednesday Open Thread | 85 comments (85 topical)

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