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50, No 48, No 47 . . . State Strategy?

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Media
Posted on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 06:41:16 PM EST
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By Big Tent Democrat

Speaking for me only

Got to have a little fun with our friends at daily kos who now tell us some states do not actually matter:

There's never been any reason to expect Obama to do well in Appalachia, so even if Clinton hangs around through Kentucky, a big win there won't mean much either in delegates gained or in creating a perception of momentum.

(Emphasis supplied.) For the record, I do not think any Dem has a chance in Kentucky or MS, GA, AL, AZ, TX, ID, UT, WY, ND, etc. But I do find it rich that the Big Orange now tells us it is ok to say some states do not matter.

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    50, No 48, No 47 . . . State Strategy? | 151 comments (151 topical)

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    How about (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by cmugirl on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 06:45:39 PM EST
    a 13 state strategy?  Just those people who live in the original 13 colonies get to vote?  </snark>

    Kerry would have won that ... (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Salo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 06:53:58 PM EST
    ...hands down.  He could have broken out the Tricorn hat and fife.

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 06:55:17 PM EST
    and looking French would have helped . . .

    Parent
    Lafayette I am here! (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Salo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 06:57:07 PM EST


    Parent
    Wow! The city of Lafayette is 30 miles away! (none / 0) (#22)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 06:58:12 PM EST
    Why didn't you tell me you're in Alabama?

    Parent
    I'm in Tucson. (none / 0) (#34)
    by Salo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:02:44 PM EST
    poolside.

    Parent
    With drink in hand (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:03:59 PM EST
    I would venture . . .

    Parent
    heh,, I have a natty computerside... (none / 0) (#39)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:05:55 PM EST


    Parent
    Bushmills on the rocks. (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Salo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:11:16 PM EST


    Parent
    Tullamore Dew (none / 0) (#133)
    by echinopsia on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 10:35:00 PM EST


    Parent
    Eww (none / 0) (#44)
    by andgarden on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:08:15 PM EST
    you might as well spike seltzer water.

    Parent
    Ain't that the truth? (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:11:24 PM EST
    But it's almost like having a beer. Best i can do nowadays.

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#28)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:00:53 PM EST


    Parent
    original 13? (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Molly Pitcher on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:04:36 PM EST
    Yeah--that includes Appalachia.  The rest of you all can sit and watch.  (Be sure and include TN, which was part of NC, you know. And WVA, which was part of VA).

    Parent
    actually molly, (none / 0) (#137)
    by cpinva on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:13:29 PM EST
    most of what's now the united states was part of the original va colony land grant, from sea to shining sea (that spain and france claimed a fair chunk of it didn't seem to bother the english king at all.). being gracious southerners, we allowed you to have little plots of land to call your own. :)

    Parent
    heh (none / 0) (#6)
    by andgarden on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 06:51:04 PM EST


    Parent
    BTD... (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Salo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 06:46:57 PM EST
    ...you didn't read the fine print. 50 state strategy refered to the Primary only. What Obama actually said about it was that he'd unite Republicans and Democrats under his political umbrella--to defeat Clinton.

    He's fulfilled that promise and owes us nothing beyond that promise.

    Ummm (none / 0) (#3)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 06:48:55 PM EST
    Is Kentucky NOT holding a primary? Not following what you are saying there Salo.

    Parent
    just mucking around. (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Salo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 06:52:38 PM EST


    Parent
    Ah (none / 0) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 06:54:47 PM EST
    Carry on.

    Parent
    The unasked question of (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by andgarden on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 06:49:36 PM EST
    that particular poster at dkos is, does the weakness he recognizes for Obama in appalachia during the primary not foretell a disaster in November?  If not, why not? Show your math.

    But such questions only go in one direction anymore over there, alas.

    I'm just having some fun (none / 0) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 06:51:26 PM EST
    No Dem has a chance in Kentucky.

    Parent
    I disagree (none / 0) (#9)
    by andgarden on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 06:53:18 PM EST
    West Virginia is winnable for Hillary. And at least one important state that we must win, Pennsylvania, is in large part composed of appalachia.

    Parent
    That is a good point! (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Salo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 06:55:33 PM EST
    Clinton could win West Virginia.

    An often overlooked bastion of working class populism.

    Parent

    I wrote Kentucky (none / 0) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 06:54:14 PM EST
    Obviously I think Clinton has a chance in West Virginia.

    Parent
    Sen. Clinton has a very good chance in WV. (none / 0) (#65)
    by Arcadianwind on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:23:23 PM EST
    I am looking across the Ohio River at WV right now.
    Remember that WV put JFK on top. And Gore could have won WV, and Florida wouldn't have been at issue. He didn't come to Wheeling that year. Bill Clinton won twice here I think.

    She will do well in the northern panhandle, Wheeling-Weirton, and much of the central and Charleston area.

    In 2004 the Kerry/Edwards tour drew 15,000 people here in Wheeling.

    Parent

    Sorry, I DO agree about Kentucky (none / 0) (#11)
    by andgarden on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 06:54:04 PM EST
    1996 was a special case.

    Parent
    Ah (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 06:54:27 PM EST


    Parent
    Alas, we can't run WJC again (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by andgarden on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 06:56:19 PM EST


    Parent
    Well deserved jab (none / 0) (#49)
    by magster on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:15:32 PM EST
    Kentucky counts -- I mean they invented clogging, artery clogging (aka: Kentucky Fried Chicken) and mint-juleps.

    Parent
    And the long rifle (none / 0) (#54)
    by Salo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:19:27 PM EST
    Where Ulstermen met German gunsmiths and created something truly deadly.

    Parent
    and good sipping whiskey. (none / 0) (#56)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:20:37 PM EST


    Parent
    mmmmm (n/t) (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by DandyTIger on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:23:23 PM EST


    Parent
    red meat for the locals (none / 0) (#58)
    by libfighter on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:20:55 PM EST
    because they are riled up enough?

    Parent
    not (none / 0) (#62)
    by libfighter on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:21:31 PM EST
    riled up enough?

    Parent
    Of course not! (none / 0) (#145)
    by lansing quaker on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:12:54 AM EST
    Kos himself said Obama's caucus wins, after Obama's Alaska win, rendered California "irrelevant."

    3 EVs > 55 EVs at the Big Orange.  But the meme has always been "Primary Winner > GE Winner."

    The Hubris is sickening.  The Tin Man knocking Dorothy (Hillary), the Lion (Edwards), and the Scarecrow (Richardson) off the Yellow Brick Road does not guarantee him a free pass into Oz.

    But, sadly, that is the common thought.  The Wicked Witch of the West (McCain) doesn't exist.  Just kill your earstwhile allies and boot them from the path, and you and you alone can get your wish from the Wizard.

    Parent

    oh yes - (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Josey on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 06:50:26 PM EST
    that FP diarist is also constantly racheting up Hillary hate.

    Yes, that diarist (5.00 / 5) (#51)
    by Cream City on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:17:12 PM EST
    did a fp piece one night that was so wrong, and was so resistant to correcting cold hard fact as pointed out by many of us there -- some now here, too -- that it became clear that outright lies were going to be the order of the day there, the new DKos Way and down with being reality-based.

    That was the end of the DKos Way for me and many.  I well knew it could not be trusted at all on women's issues, after the infamous "women's studies set" rant by MKos.  But not reality-based at all?  Not useful, but for wandering over to see how far from the promise of the so-called "progressives" it has gone.  

    Parent

    I think I know the one. (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by Fabian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:20:01 AM EST
    When a FPer has multiple commenters pointing out that their premise is as weak as water, that's bad.

    I had no real opinion of DHinMI until that diary.  After it, I did.  

    Parent

    It's clear to me too ... (none / 0) (#156)
    by Cassius Chaerea on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:35:51 PM EST
    that the front pager in question is openly and deliberately dishonest.

    Parent
    If you ever miss dKos (none / 0) (#134)
    by badger on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 10:41:59 PM EST
    take a look at this screenshot over at Corrente, and note that it got 41 recommends.

    I post it here, but it'd just get deleted.

    Parent

    Which Answers BTD Rhetorical Question (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by BDB on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:04:20 PM EST
    About whether the Blogger Boyz care about alienating women voters.  If they did, they wouldn't allow this kind of crap on their site.

    Feminism is an integral part of progressivism.  If you're not a feminist, you're a fauxgressive.  

    Not that I think there's much hope of salvaging progressive after what's been done it it's name.  Liberal for me.  I may be a loser, but at least I know what's right and wrong.

    Parent

    you don't suppose... (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by white n az on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:17:03 PM EST
    that there is the belief that the unity pony has long since left the barn do you?

    Well...look at the bright side...there are only 41 recommends...

    Parent

    No, I don't think it left the barn (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by lambert on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:41:03 PM EST
    I think it was thrown off the train.

    Parent
    well there are some here... (none / 0) (#146)
    by white n az on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:27:11 AM EST
    who would be equally divisive if they were allowed to. I do cringe at some of the comments I see and from time to time actually take the time to ask for better.

    But DK is now and as far as I have seen, an especially cruel place and I have always laughed when it is labeled as 'left', 'liberal', 'progressive'

    I did appreciate that there were 6 troll votes especially considering that it can't be much fun to be a Hillary supporter and read the meta there. The 41 votes to the plus side though clearly puts it all in perspective.

    I suppose if that's the kind of site that Markos wants to operate, then he's succeeded. As you've said, it's the Obama 527.

    Parent

    Well, if you really want (none / 0) (#149)
    by Fabian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:25:19 AM EST
    to get your feminist self in a huff, I can post links to the two Cindy McCain diaries that rocketed to the top of the rec list.  Very revealing.

    Parent
    It's sad, those "new" to the party (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by vicndabx on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 06:56:39 PM EST
    are now coming around to the viewpoint of those who remember the carter+ years and have a more informed understanding of the history of dem vs. repub politics in the US.  Maybe we could've avoided this whole party-split crap altogether.  Hopefully the lessons learned will help us play the game better going forward.

    could you elaborate on that (none / 0) (#24)
    by Salo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 06:59:27 PM EST
    and finish the thought?

    Who is playing Carter?

    And are you refering to Kennedy v Carter or

    Carter v Ford?

    or Carter v Reagan?

    Or Zbig v Central Asia?

    Parent

    OT but, (none / 0) (#52)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:17:34 PM EST
    is Zbig beginning to remind anyone else of General Buck Turgidson?

    BTD, please delete if I'm either chatty or too OT.

    Parent

    He's reminding me... (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Salo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:21:12 PM EST
    ...of Palmerston without the common touch.

    What disaster of the 70s or 80s didn't have his fingers all over it?

    Parent

    Carter v Reagan (none / 0) (#69)
    by vicndabx on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:28:53 PM EST
    As this was the time I "came of age" and was first introduced to politics by way of the parents.  This was my first taste of the have's vs. the have not's trickle down theory.  What we're seeing today, IMHO, is a continuation of that today, only on a global scale.  See NAFTA, CAFTA, etc.....

    Parent
    and the point is, (none / 0) (#80)
    by vicndabx on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:40:20 PM EST
    we still want to feel good instead of "getting our foot in the door" so to speak.  We can't effect a change in direction w/o having the means to do so.  We need to control the bully pulpit in order to offer our alternative (once we agree on what that is) in spite of or w/the help of (maybe grudgingly) the media.  One of the reasons WJC was able to survive w/his legacy intact was he had the bully pulpit and could get his message across effectively.  IMHO, that's what the DNC was thinking they could do now.  They were wrong, and should've known it.

    Parent
    Coincidentally, I'm Sure (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by BDB on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 06:57:30 PM EST
    These are states that could help put Hillary on top in the popular vote (but those large margins don't matter because those states don't matter).  

    The other funny thing is the declaration that Appalachia doesn't matter, which appears to be based on the fact that it is not Obama country.  

    Except, I'm pretty sure a part of Appalachia is in Virginia and so it will come into play in the grand plan to make up for losing Ohio by winning Virginia in the GE (nevermind that Ohio has 8 more EVs than Virginia).  As for those other Appalachian states, Pennsylvania has gone democratic in every general election since 1992, Ohio very nearly went Kerry, and Bill Clinton carried OH and also WVA, TN, and KY.  I agree that KY and TN are a stretch this year, but at least they gone blue in the last two decades.  The only time South Carolina (touted as a huge Obama win in the primaries) has gone blue in 40 years was for Carter.  Same thing for Colorado, the state Obama is supposed to win to offset Pennsylvania, never mind that Pennsylvania has 12 more EVs than Colorado, although Colorado was blue for Clinton in 1992 and not Carter.  

    But Appalachia?  Who needs them?

    I am an elitist (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:00:03 PM EST
    I do not know whatfor from Appalachia.

    I am completely serious about that.

    Parent

    well pull up a chair partner (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by DandyTIger on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:33:15 PM EST
    I'll tell you some tales. Appalachia is very rural, but also covers a lot of mining and steel territories. The people are ultra pro union for the most part. And for that reason have often been on the democratic party side of the column. Unlike the south proper, it continued to lean blue even after the civil rights movement that cleared out the riff raff from the dem party. Snark. Extremely independent people who can go either way on many issues. And interestingly totally in the tank for the Kennedy's since JFK days.

    But most importantly, some of the best cross country cycling in the country. And seriously good spelunking opportunities.

    Parent

    And serious mountain bike (none / 0) (#79)
    by Arcadianwind on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:39:58 PM EST
    territory & excellent camping areas.

    Parent
    My Family Is From There (Tennessee and Kentucky) (5.00 / 10) (#74)
    by BDB on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:34:07 PM EST
    Clinton will run very strongly there just as her husband did and she'll do so even against McCain.  Although Romney would've been better.  Heh.

    As for her strength against Obama, it's not just a race issue.  Sure, race is a hurdle, but I think he could overcome it.  His problem is that his unity schtick isn't going to go over very well there.  These folks tend towards the Jacksonian wing of the democratic party.  Think Jim Webb, not Bill Bradley.

    His other problem is that he's running against a Clinton.  If my family is any judge, the attacks by the Village on the Clintons in the 1990s were seen as being fueled, in part, by a bias against the Clintons because they were from Arkansas.  There's a long history of the media in large cities of mocking and making fun of Appalachian folks in editorial cartoons and otherwise (it started when coal was discovered in the region and the companies wanted to rip off the land owners, it's not stealing if the victims are no better than animals).  When they went after the Clintons, there was a natural inclination to rally around the home team.  They feel ostracized by the urban elite, just as the Clintons were. Add to that the Clintons' genuine strengths on policy such as Hillary's leadership on rural health issues, and you have one unbeatable opponent.

    I've also said this before but, even though I'm a generation removed from Appalachia, I was enraged by the videotape of Obama's comments in SF and I currently live in California. It wasn't what he said it was the laughter. Because of the history of being turned, literally, into a joke by rich, educated elites in big cities, there is a sensitivity of those of us with hillbilly roots to the idea that folks will pretend to take us seriously and then laugh behind our backs.  I feel it even though I've never lived in Appalachia.  It's the laughter that will be devestating to Obama - and democrats - in the Appalachian region.  It confirms all of their worst fears about urban liberals.

    And I know I'm probably going to hell for saying this, but when I saw this this morning, I thought good.  I will never understand the popularity of these things.  I guess poverty is fricking hilarious to some people.

    Parent

    This is one of the (5.00 / 5) (#78)
    by bjorn on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:37:12 PM EST
    most enlightening things I have read lately.  It reminded me of the Clintons being called "white trash" by a lot of the D.C. elites when they first moved to Washington, and it wasn't just the Republicans doing it.

    Parent
    My Mother Didn't Even Vote for Clinton in 1992 (5.00 / 4) (#86)
    by BDB on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:45:52 PM EST
    But she did in 1996.  I remember her ranting the night the plane crashed into the White House about everyone was out to get him and that was way before Monica Lewinsky ever became public. But while my mom flirted with Republicans and independents, her family in Tennessee are all democrats.  They're some of those civil war democrats who became FDR democrats (I have a signed campaign photo he gave out) and then stuck with the party through the civil rights movement.  But my dad was an Indiana Republican and I guess love makes you do stupid things.  Heh.

    Thankfully, they're both fairly strong democrats now.  Of course, they retired to Florida so their votes won't count.  Heh.    

    Parent

    Did you read "The Hunting of the (5.00 / 2) (#115)
    by hairspray on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:45:53 PM EST
    President" by Gene Lyons and Joe Conasen?  Tells the whole story and points fingers at lots of people including WaPo and NYT.  The elitist of the Democratic party were there big time.

    Parent
    No, But I Read Sally Quinn (5.00 / 3) (#119)
    by BDB on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:51:28 PM EST
    That was sufficient.   When she writes something like that about our torturer-in-chief, then I'll believe she cares about protecting the country and not just her social set from those low-class hillbillies.

    Parent
    From Appalachia (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by tnjen on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:54:39 PM EST
    I'm from Appalachia and still live in Appalachia and you're dead on. What the media doesn't seem to get when they try to say that the Clintons are elitist because they now have money is that the Clintons have been subjected to the same hateful labels that most folks around here have been subjected to. Because they've been attacked as low class rednecks they have credibility with small town folks that doesn't go away with money.

    Also, racism is not much of a problem in a lot of areas of Appalachia. People forget that Appalachia is a gigantic area that runs for hundreds of miles through many states. It is incredibly diverse and all parts are most definitely not the same. Where I'm from was/is very diverse and in fact a maroon zone where tri-racial groups hid from persecution prior to the civil war. I am proud descendant of melungeons (tri-racial group) Cherokee, and Caucasians from Appalachia.

    Parent

    The Rodhams Were Welsh Coal Miners (5.00 / 3) (#96)
    by BDB on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:03:50 PM EST
    Which is how they ended up in Scranton.  That also probably helps.  Another cultural tie and probably increases the trust they have in her, laughing at them would be laughing at her own family.  

    Parent
    and then Edwards. (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by Salo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:29:52 PM EST
    You can't get more Welsh than that.

    Parent
    Great post. (5.00 / 3) (#94)
    by Teresa on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:59:35 PM EST
    The laughter and worse really angers people in the south because we do consider Hillary a southerner now. You don't put down a Clinton to a true southern Democrat.

    Parent
    about the laughter (5.00 / 5) (#101)
    by tnjen on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:13:30 PM EST
    Teresa, you're right about the laughter. People don't realize how very poor some folks are here. There are pockets that are like third world countries when it comes to access and poverty and yet 90% of them would invite you into their home regardless of your color (and not all Appalachians are white either), feed you, and house you without a single thought given to it cutting into their own limited resources. It is infuriating to know that people that have been left behind in every way imaginable are the butt of any joke.

    Parent
    Harlan County, Kentucky (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by BDB on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:19:57 PM EST
    In 2000, the per capita income was just over $11,000 per year and nearly a third of all residents lived below the poverty line.

    Parent
    Been to Harlan (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by tnjen on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:23:21 PM EST
    I know Harlan, or what's known colloquially as Bloody Harlan. They fought a war against the coal companies in the late 70s or early 80s. There's a documentary about it called, Harlan County, USA -- that EVERYONE should watch. I can tell you not much has changed since then. People there are still under the thumbs of the few rich people there.

    Parent
    I was watching that tonight! (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by rooge04 on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:03:44 PM EST
    I take a labor econ class and we began watching this. And my teach is a total liberal (thank God!) And we started watching this today. I felt is so appropriate for the current talk of elitism and KY.    Heartbreaking movie. I was crying 5 minutes in.

    Parent
    it's a great doc (none / 0) (#125)
    by tnjen on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:26:56 PM EST
    I saw it last year and it broke my heart all over again because so much hasn't changed since it was made. What it does show is the amazing strength and tenacity of people that have been through hell and back with no one but themselves to rely on. The movie captures some of what they're up against but I'm not sure if people fully understand that law enforcement and other thugs the mines hire in Harlan and places like it will kill you if you go against the coal companies. Harlan has a long history of violence and oppression and I promise you that those cameras being there when it happened stopped an all out bloodbath from happening.

    Parent
    As I watched the (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by rooge04 on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 10:31:56 PM EST
    mine foreman getting violent and shooting at the strikers I immediately thought "wingnut!"

    Parent
    OT (none / 0) (#109)
    by boredmpa on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:31:36 PM EST
    but, are you an

    App-a-latch-in

    or an

    Apple-aysh-in?

    I get looks when I say I went to Appalachian State U.  (I live in CA these days, and otherwise have no accent, just a couple quirky words).

    Parent

    re OT (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by tnjen on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:38:27 PM EST
    LOL! I'm App-a-latch-in. If you're on the south side you're definitely App-a-latch-in. We claim, with some amount of proof, that our pronunciation is correct since it derives from native languages (Cherokee IIRC). Kind of like Tennessee is from Tanasi.

    There's actually a sign on the hiking trail that reads something like you're now leaving App-a-latch-a and entering Apple-aysh-a and vice versa.

    Parent

    Definetly "latch". Outsiders say it the (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Teresa on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:56:26 PM EST
    other way.

    Parent
    sorry for the spelling. Typing with one hand (none / 0) (#122)
    by Teresa on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:58:10 PM EST
    while I eat.

    Parent
    well (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by boredmpa on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 10:13:38 PM EST
    The Center for Appalachian Studies was at ASU in Boone, NC.

    So I generally feel fine saying LATCH--and just correcting whoever gives me the look.  I don't really have to worry about debating it out here in CA, since most people don't realize the area involved is so large (and covers both sides of the sweet tea line).

    Parent

    Laughter (none / 0) (#126)
    by squeaky on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:27:37 PM EST
    The laughter was when Obama was making a joke about his own ability to be taken seriously by group who is very skeptical about government.

    In a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania. People have been so beaten down so long and they feel so betrayed by  government that when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical  about government there is a part of them that just doesn't buy it. And when it is delivered by a 46 year old black guy named Barak Obama...laughter... it just adds another layer of skepticism.... laughter
    .

    Not sure what laughter you are referring to but this was clearly not making fun of the people Obama was talking about, imo.

    Parent

    Watch The Video (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by BDB on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:52:23 PM EST
    Then ask yourself why Obama and his crowd of wealthy donors in California find it funny that people in Pennsylvania are more skeptical of the message because it's delivered by a 46-year-old black guy named Barack Obama.   What is Obama saying about why it's hard for him to be taken seriously?  It can't be the reference to his age, these folks voted for Clinton.  So Obama is either saying it's his funny name (which is, of course, of African derivation) or that he's a black man.  Isn't it hilarious to picture a black man trying to talk to rural Pennsylvanians about the economy?  Just think of their reaction of those rubes to the black man with the funny name!  Isn't that just a hoot?  

    Parent
    exactly (none / 0) (#130)
    by tnjen on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 10:07:25 PM EST
    It's obvious who and what they're laughing at but you absolutely nail it in the way you lay it out.

    You know it's funny. There's a great story about how one of the hospitals in Ky near Harlan became integrated. There was a black coal miner who saved the other men in his section by getting them under one of the cloths they use to catch air when there's a collapse or cave-in. He then rationed out the water and food but wouldn't take any for himself because he was older and the younger men had young families. When they rescued the miners he was taken to the hospital along with them and no one noticed because they were all black from coal dust. When the hospital realized he was black they went to move him but the miners wouldn't let them and from then on the hospital was integrated. This was years before the rest of the country was integrated and before the north and 'enlightened areas' of the country decided equality might be the way to go. I'm not saying everything became a paradise of equality there overnight (it didn't) but these were the actions of the grandparents and great grandparents that Obama and those living in their gated and de facto segregated communities were laughing at for being backwards.

    Parent

    Not About Race (none / 0) (#135)
    by squeaky on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:01:03 PM EST
    First off I am glad that you have corrected the fact that the SF crowd, nor Obama, was not laughing at the plight of the working class people in Ohio and PA.  

    Second, if you listened to the tape he said that this had nothing to do with race, as the NYT implied, but the fact that this group is very skeptical about the failed promises they have heard over and over from government.

    He was clearly saying that convincing them that anyone would really be able to help them is a near impossible task. "A 46 year old black guy named Barak Obama", clearly meant that another outsider waltzing in with promises would not be the ticket. He made a caricature himself as the same old same old politician just  waltzing in and expecting them to be sold.  The crowd laughed at the caricature of an outsider assuming this would be a simple task. He clearly said that approach would not work. Empathy and understanding of how they became distrustful in the first place was sorely needed, not another false promise and a waltz.

    Parent

    There is an excellent program on (5.00 / 3) (#90)
    by FlaDemFem on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:55:08 PM EST
    the History Channel entitled "Hillbillies" that gives, in spite of the name, a good overview of the culture, and roots of that culture, in Appalachia. It is hosted by Billy Ray Cyrus, and not badly either. I have lived in Appalachia(WV and VA) and am kin to mountain folk in NC, KY, SC, GA, and I found the program to be very accurate.

    Parent
    I'll Check It Out (none / 0) (#93)
    by BDB on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:57:13 PM EST
    Thanks.

    Parent
    WV (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by DandyTIger on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:07:29 PM EST
    And one other bit of useful information. In my opinion, WV (aka west by god virginia) would vote for dems 100% of the time if they just campaigned effectively there. But there is usually not much in the way of campaigning because it just doesn't count for that much. Well, unless there is a close race... snark.

    It's actually amazingly diverse with suburbs of DC, suburbs of Pittsburgh, parts that are just like Ohio, parts that are like VA, and parts that are like KY and TN. And parts in the middle that are union mining towns.

    OK, now the usual obscure football reference for you: How 'bout them 'ears.

    Parent

    KY (5.00 / 3) (#102)
    by BDB on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:14:54 PM EST
    Kentucky is definitely a stretch, but the extended primary season could make it less of one, at least if Clinton is the nominee.  There is a lot of excitement about Clinton there.  Her husband is very popular.  And there could be a lot of money poured into the state to fight Mitch McConnell.  They also just elected a Democratic Governor.  Although admittedly, John McCain is no Ernie Fletcher.  Having said that, one of the things that fueled the collapse of the Democratic machine in Kentucky was corruption.  

    Parent
    For Appalachia, check this very interesting link (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by lambert on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:47:28 PM EST
    here. The author takes country voting data and then overlays a topographical map, and voila! Mountains correllate with Hillary, i.e. Appalachia does, because they need government to work.

    And that geography runs through PA, OH, VA, KY, and TN (and, of course, WV).

    Making it all the more unfortunate that the OFB have taken to using hillbillies as a term of abuse. Let's alienate another constituency, shall we?

    Parent

    Well the post (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by slr51 on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:23:32 PM EST
    does make it abundantly clear that it only refers to the primaries and the Dem nomination. It is an estimation of delegates gains expected, nothing else. The states Clinton is expected to win are being compared to those Obama is expected to win and then that total is put into perspective given his starting advantage in delegates.

    So does having a bit of fun include pretending not to understand the point of the post?

    Parent

    Heh (none / 0) (#155)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 09:58:33 AM EST
    You guys are too effing much.

    Parent
    Surrendering Appalachia means (5.00 / 3) (#70)
    by davnee on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:30:07 PM EST
    surrendering OH, PA, VA, TN, KY, NC and WV.  You can't win those states without doing at least reasonably well (or in some states like KY and WV really, really well) with what Barone calls the Jacksonians.  So Obama, according to his supporters, can win the GE without OH, PA and his much touted VA and NC.  No sweat.

    Pardon me if I laugh.

    Clinton has a better than even chance in OH and PA, and she has a fighting chance in TN and WV.  P.S. she wins AR and has a better than even chance in FL.  I'll take that over winning CO every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

    Parent

    I know there ... (none / 0) (#81)
    by Salo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:41:18 PM EST
    ...are demographers in the party who know this stuff. There are anthropologists working for the party who know this stuff.

    Almost every president had the provenance of border reever or ulster plantation:

    Washington, Nixon, Johnson, Clinton, Buchanan, Lincoln, Truman.

    Even the Astronauts do

    Armstrong or Glenn for example.

    Parent

    Don't Know About Border Reever Connection (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by BDB on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:56:46 PM EST
    But it isn't going to hurt Hillary that the Rodhams were Welsh coal miners.  

    Parent
    The Welsh are a border people. (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by Salo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:33:12 PM EST
    Hardscrabble existance, common as muck but great staying power and wonderful singing voices.  

    Parent
    My husband and I are both Welsh (none / 0) (#118)
    by athyrio on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:51:27 PM EST
    and I agree....

    Parent
    lose Penn lose the GE (none / 0) (#29)
    by Salo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:01:12 PM EST
    It's like losing double. The points you actually lose and then the points you have to make up to compensate.

    It should be a bastion of Democratic voting rather than a close run thing.

    Parent

    Don't You Know That Obama Is Going To Win (none / 0) (#147)
    by MO Blue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:28:27 AM EST
    65% to 35% in the GE, turn all the red states blue and bring in a 60+ majority in the Senate on his coat tails. These "facts" have been stated frequently by numerous OB supporters so I know they must be true.

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Steve M on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 06:57:58 PM EST
    "It has always been a dream of mine to get blown out by Senator Obama in Virginia!"

    heh (5.00 / 0) (#26)
    by andgarden on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:00:07 PM EST
    I don't think Obama has a better shot at VA than Hillary does at KY, frankly.

    I don't see his November map coming together.

    Parent

    Heh (none / 0) (#23)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 06:59:13 PM EST


    Parent
    Drop one word (none / 0) (#150)
    by Fabian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:34:10 AM EST
    and you get a ribald version.

    (Can't help it.  Mind in the gutter again!)

    Parent

    Red States (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by BDB on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:00:27 PM EST
    I thought red states did count.  I'm pretty sure I was told that.  It didn't matter that Obama lost NJ, he kicked butt in Utah.  So if the red states now don't count, does that mean NJ does?  

    Something (5.00 / 4) (#30)
    by lefty lawyer on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:01:13 PM EST
    about hobgoblins and little minds seems appropriate here.  "Foolish" is apparently now defined as "anything that doesn't help Obama" over at DK.

    Not the first time, either; there was the about-face on Clinton "standing up" to Iowa and New Hampshire by remaining on the ballot, and subsequently being a dirty rotten cheater for having stayed.

    Irony is clearly alive and well, however unintentional.

    That seems the new North Star (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:03:06 PM EST


    Parent
    They call it Pennsyltucky (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by lilburro on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:05:35 PM EST
    for a reason...which is why Obama's comments in SF are such an issue for the entire country.  But no, of course, let the creative class live out its fantasy.

    Actually in campaigning for PA I sort of expected Obama to bring on a really coordinated strategy to win white male working class voters, but the SF comments point to a different route.  He truly does not seem to get PA.  PA is just an unfortunate part of the plan for him right now; with that in mind, and Hillary's Scranton roots, stealing her demographic won't be easy.  Ever notice how The Office has this weird inferiority complex towards NYC?  In my experience, that's PA.  That half-plugged in, never-win mentality is how I think of Pennsylvania.  It's very interesting for a blue state.

    Pennsyltucky is the part of the state (none / 0) (#42)
    by andgarden on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:07:23 PM EST
    that we won't win in November. but we have to be able to do well enough there to run up the margins in Philly and Pittsburgh.

    Parent
    Right. (none / 0) (#67)
    by lilburro on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:26:03 PM EST
    But vis a vis Obama's comments, Pennsyltucky knows whose they is, if you know what I'm saying ;)  Obama's shtick is that there are many out there just waiting for a Democrat.  I think there are lots of those types in PA.  But Obama's comments just about killed that, I think.

    Parent
    And yet they like Hillary better (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by andgarden on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:28:27 PM EST
    go figure. . .

    Parent
    Curious, isn't it? (none / 0) (#72)
    by lilburro on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:33:04 PM EST
    PA did well in 2006.  Andgarden, just curious, what part of PA are you from (again)?  I am from Berks County, but overlapping Chester/Lancaster.

    Parent
    Philly (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by andgarden on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:34:46 PM EST
    I grew up in the People's Republic of Mt Airy.

    Parent
    Cool (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by lilburro on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:44:02 PM EST
    I salute you.  Canvassed there, Mt. Airy is great.  Philly is interesting on 1000x levels (a professor of mine grew up in Frankford.)

    Parent
    I would imagine (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by lilburro on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:48:18 PM EST
    Mt. Airy is overwhelmingly Obama.  Lots of votes to be picked up through the state though.  I'm thinking Patrick Murphy's district, though I believe New Hope is there...dunno.

    Parent
    Mt. Airy is an interesting place (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by andgarden on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:52:38 PM EST
    East Mt Airy/Germantown is now quite black, and I expect that Obama will walk away with all of its votes. West Mt. Airy is a bona-fide integrated neighborhood, and the residents are quite proud of that. They'll go for Obama too, I suspect, though less strongly.

    New Hope is in Pat Murphy's district, so is Levittown. I anticipate that Obama will have a slight advantage there, just as Hillary will have a slight advantage in Allyson Schwartz's district, which is half in MontCo and half in Northeast Philly. That's where you find many of the Rizzocrats. (The Republicans were pretty smart in their district drawing, they just lost the dice rolls a few too many times).

    Parent

    Berks Co. (none / 0) (#97)
    by lilburro on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:04:43 PM EST
    has a fair amount of Democrats that are probably Hillary leaning.  I suspect the Obama campaign will be thankful that it is a closed primary if the SF comment furor doesn't die down.

    Parent
    I'd guess that Obama (none / 0) (#98)
    by andgarden on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:05:43 PM EST
    doesn't have many voters outside of Reading.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#120)
    by Mary Mary on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:55:30 PM EST
    he does, actually. Don't forget Kutztown University. But many more Clinton voters, I THINK. (I live in Berks).

    Parent
    Because they like boring bullet points... (none / 0) (#141)
    by lambert on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:51:45 PM EST
    ... about policy, and they like narratives that show how problems get solved. Which is why Hillary's schtick works for them, even though the press hates it. (This idea of a counter-narrative is why the press and the OFB had to jump on Hillary's hospital story about the woman who couldn't get care so hard. That and they really don't have universal health care as any kind of priority.)

    Parent
    Kos is in line with Obama supporters, ... (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by cymro on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:06:21 PM EST
    ... whose motto seems to be: If you can't beat them, insult them. For example, TL commenter willie wrote here last week, in the first thread on "How to Look at Polls":

    I would feel very uncomfortable rooting for Appalacian racial tendencies to decide this primary season

    and

    the article you quote seems to take glee in the possibility of Obama being stopped by racial prejudice among hill folk

    Here is the relevant section of that thread.

    wow, must have missed that (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by DandyTIger on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:16:56 PM EST
    on that thread. And good thing too. My responses definitely would have been deleted. That is the perfect example of elitism that spills into bigotry. What stunningly bad politicians.

    Parent
    It's not with joy (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by Salo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:39:52 PM EST
    or even a told you so really.  Appalachians can't actually stop him. It's resignation.

    The DNC want to avoid a conflagration at the convention. That's what is driving the Clinton purge.

    Parent

    So the DNC wants to enforce party unity ... (none / 0) (#127)
    by cymro on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:36:10 PM EST
    ... at all costs, even at the expense of victory in the GE. Is that what you are saying? Because that is what it sounds like. Or are they really just focused on winning in 2012, when support for Clinton will be much stronger following an Obama debacle in 2008?

    Parent
    A choice comment from another blog (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by jcsf on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:06:35 PM EST
    As Talk Left will tell you it's not the delegates but the popular vote that matters, as measured by ignoring caucus states and counting two states no one campaigned in, one in which Obama wasn't on the ballot (but of course that was his fault, so no one should complain). By that count, Obama is only slightly in the lead so far. Should Hillary gain the lead by this measure, it would could very well persuade 80% of the superdelegates to cast their vote for Hillary regardless of the vote in their own states out of a powerful respect for the will of the people, as reflected in the popular vote.

    Hmm (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:07:27 PM EST
    So does Kentucky count or not?

    Parent
    Kentucky (none / 0) (#154)
    by Same As It Ever Was on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 09:08:21 AM EST
    Of course it does.  DHinMI's analysis is off the mark.  That was not uncommon even before DKos became the Daily Obama.

    But the larger point -- that Kentucky will not greatly effect the outcome - is probably the case - just as Utah had no great effect on the ultimate result.  
     

    Parent

    Oh, please, hush. (5.00 / 3) (#45)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:08:31 PM EST
    Just hush.

    Parent
    Because everyone knows (5.00 / 3) (#46)
    by andgarden on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:10:00 PM EST
    that caucuses are where the real representation happens.

    Parent
    not quite. (none / 0) (#50)
    by Salo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:16:58 PM EST
    I think Obama and the antiwar activists has the DNC over a barrel.

    'La valise ou le cercueil'--the chant in Denver if Clinton manages to convice the superdels to back her over Obama.

    Parent

    Nice Battle of Algiers reference... (none / 0) (#142)
    by lambert on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:54:41 PM EST
    And aux duck pits, citoyens will be the reaction of Hillary supporters if Obama gains an illegitimate nomination after disenfranchiging two states.

    Parent
    regarding that poster (5.00 / 6) (#55)
    by Turkana on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:19:43 PM EST
    and his recent posts, i will operate on the theory of "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all," and simply put it this way:
    Heh (5.00 / 3) (#77)
    by BDB on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:36:47 PM EST


    Parent
    I operate on no such theory. (5.00 / 3) (#116)
    by Joelarama on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:46:04 PM EST
    That FP'r is not. credible.

    Parent
    I'd say the same thing (5.00 / 2) (#151)
    by Fabian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:38:34 AM EST
    only a whole LOT more of it.  

    Parent
    Rich indeed (5.00 / 5) (#57)
    by Lahdee on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:20:54 PM EST
    It's exhausting is what it is. I just wanna be a Democrat, I want every state to count, I want the bs at DK and around Creative Nation to stop, I want a united party in August, I want a chance to win in Kentucky or MS, GA, AL, AZ, TX, ID, UT, WY, ND, etc., hey a girl can dream, and I want a smile on my face 1/20/09. Most of all I want the holier than thou nonsense to stop.

    Bitter Ender. (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by Salo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:22:48 PM EST
    It will do you no good!:-)

    Parent
    No red state is going to BO (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by Prabhata on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:41:45 PM EST
    The fact that he's won some of them is no indication that he is seen as a viable Republican Light.  That idea is so ludicrous.  The people who voted Republican against Kerry will not all of a sudden find "godObama". when the Republicans bring out Wright and all the garbage he carries, he'll be lucky to carry CA.  It will be tough with HRC, but she's better positioned to get the votes that BC carried.

    to be fair DK wrote about Obama's Judgement (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by thereyougo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:35:11 PM EST
     when he endorsed  Joe Liberman's run for senate back in 06. Today polling showed that people have buyer's remorse, he used those words.

    People are unhappy with Joe Lieberman.

    It was surprising to hear DK shift from the Obama echo chamber and try to bring some balance. Maybe he's paying attention to the traffic?

    Never did Kos (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Stellaaa on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:49:23 PM EST
    I guess never liked their format, never got into it, so I am not missing anything.  Never got into MSNBC, so not missing that either.  

    The Obama strategy seems to be (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by kenosharick on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:05:33 PM EST
    that they do not need states like Fl, Calif,NY,Mass, Mich,Ohio,Penn, or NJ. They will win the general with ND,Mont, Georgia,Wy. and Va. All of their hype as to "states won" makes Calif equal to Wyoming. Final electoral vote: mccain 400, Obama 135.  

    Can Clinton write off... (none / 0) (#31)
    by Exeter on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:01:15 PM EST
    ...every medium and large primary, except Wisconsin, because they were won by Obama winning African Americans and losing all other ethnic groups?

    Daily Kos (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:02:27 PM EST
    insisted she could not do so. I guess it is OK If You are Obama at the Big Orange.

    Parent
    Lord Kos is creating his own reality here (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by lambert on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:57:24 PM EST
    Momentum is what our famously free press says it is.

    And the Boiz, including Kos, don't want to replace David Broder, they want to be David Broder.

    I would pay no attention to anything Kos says, since at this point its entirely tendentious.

    Parent

    No momentum gained by a big win= (none / 0) (#75)
    by Exeter on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:34:16 PM EST
    discounting and it saying it doesn't matter.  Actually, its somewhat similar to what Clinton said about Obama's win in South Carolina.

    Parent
    I think Clinton (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by bjorn on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:30:37 PM EST
    did make a mistake by seemingly dissing some states after they voted.  She could have done better congratulating Obama on some of those victories too.  Her argument about the electoral college would have been a better way to frame the discussion, but she was fairly dismissive of the voters in the states she lost after South Carolina. I did not like that.  But the way for Obama to win is not to make the same mistakes she did.  It does seem like all their talk about Obama being the nominee is smoke and mirrors though.  They have never acted like winners at DKOS, only snobs. If they believed he was the nominee they would already be in the "gracious" phase instead of the "diss the upcoming states" stage.

    Parent
    The argument is simple. (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by Salo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:45:08 PM EST
    Obama doesn't have an advantage over mCcain in the battleground states. The Obama folk suggest Colorado and Nevada as serious counterweight to losing Pennsylvannia or Missouri. If McCain picks Romney as veep Colorado and Nevada will be solidly GOP.

    Clinton creates her own advatage in Florida and Arkansas and could easily be expected to win West Virginia.

    Parent

    Shhhhhhh! (none / 0) (#33)
    by andgarden on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:02:34 PM EST


    Parent
    I read that quote (none / 0) (#91)
    by BlueMainer on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:56:20 PM EST
    over and over again, and for the life of me I didn't see the words "don't matter".

    Funny, some people tried to say that (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by andgarden on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:01:53 PM EST
    a few months ago when Hillary's camp was accused of doing this.

    Parent
    Wait you mean PA and IN have not been kicked out (none / 0) (#100)
    by Marvin42 on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:13:12 PM EST
    Of the US at DK yet? Wow, they must be only looking at the odd poll out. I wonder how long before these states join KY and WV.

    we need a new map according to Obama (n/t) (none / 0) (#105)
    by DandyTIger on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:20:45 PM EST


    Parent
    But But But (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by Marvin42 on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:31:12 PM EST
    There are no red states! There are no blue states! There are just the United States!

    Or: there are caucus states, they are states the glow at Obama web site, then there are those non united States..

    Parent

    and an awesome God... (5.00 / 2) (#112)
    by Salo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:37:04 PM EST
    that bitter Americans cling to.

    You know as crutch for the frustrations.

    I didn't say that right.

    Parent

    And the Unity Pony... (5.00 / 2) (#144)
    by lambert on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:07:31 AM EST
    ... dumps another steaming load.

    Jeebus, I thought the Unity Pony had left, or Andy Sullivan went riding on it, but no, it's still "hanging around."

    Let me check again.

    Nope. Still there.

    Neighs in a baritone. That's annoying in the early morning, I tell ya.

    Frustrating.

    Where's my crutch? Maybe I can beat some sense into the damn thing with it.

    Reach me down my crutch, wouldja hon? No, the heavy one!

    Parent

    kos, 50-state strategy, and self-righteous naivety (none / 0) (#152)
    by kempis on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:43:52 AM EST
    Ah, the 50-state strategy is one of the proofs a Kossack will present for Obama's moral superiority. He cares about ALL voters. He doesn't cynically pour resources into some states and ignore others. He really works hard to turn red states blue--and by god, he's going to transform the electoral map!

    Complete hogwash. His "50 state strategy" has been "just words." It's played well with Dems in red states, but the fact is that Obama's campaign does the same thing all campaigns do: polling and math tell them were it makes the most sense to spend money and time and that's what they'll do.

    Once again, there's no real difference between Obama and any politician--except he's better at the Jedi Mind Trick.

    It was obvious what his strategy was (none / 0) (#153)
    by Fabian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:58:41 AM EST
    in January:

    Hope&Change(Youth) versus Experience & Establishment
    Unity(aka getting R and I votes in the primary) versus Partisanship(aka relying on D votes)
    "Yes, we can!" versus A Long History

    In other words, if you look like a newbie and a lightweight compared to your opponent, reframe it and run on it.

    One of the things that bugs me about some Obama supporters is the old "If you want issues, look at his website.".  I'm totally underwhelmed by that.  If issues were important to them, they'd know Obama's positions by heart.  

    Even worse?  What's in it for me as a woman?  "McCain!  SCOTUS!" aka Obama is better than McCain on women's issues.  Talk about setting the bar low!  Clinton says mandates for all.  Obama says mandates for children...guess who heads most single parent households?  Yup, women.  Men?  No kids, no mandate.  Who will be bearing the burden?

    Is Obama a feminist?      Can we ask him that tonight?  I'd love to hear him dodge the answer.

    Parent

    50, No 48, No 47 . . . State Strategy? | 151 comments (151 topical)

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