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Obama On Florida Delegation: "We're Not In The Way"

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:34:30 AM EST
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In today's top story in The Miami Herald:

Asked by The Herald why he doesn't just concede Florida to Clinton since he's so close to the nomination, Obama didn't answer directly. He said he wanted the state to participate in the convention, but he didn't get into specifics about how many delegates should be there and whether they would be divvied up according to the Jan. 29 vote.

"'We want the Florida delegates to be seated and we intend to make sure they have a voice at the convention," he said. "The DNC has a decision to make and we're not in the way." Pressed on why he doesn't use his influence to grant Clinton the extra Florida delegates and end the dispute, he said he doesn't control the DNC. "The delegates aren't mine to give," he said.

(Emphasis supplied.) There is an old saying - "Lead, follow or get out of the way." It seems clear now that on the question of Florida and Michigan, Obama has chosen to get out of the way.

In other words, Obama is offering to hold Florida's coat while it fights for its delegates.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

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    Obama On Florida Delegation: "We're Not In The Way" | 203 comments (203 topical)
    This is my favorite (5.00 / 22) (#1)
    by coolit on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:42:21 AM EST
    characteristic of Obama.  While claiming to be a new type of candidate *for change, unity, progress etc.), whenever Clinton is maligned or the voting process is corrupted to his advantage  he doesn't seem to mind.  

    I didn't do it.  I wasn't involved.  I'm hands off.  I'll let someone else fix it.

    If he was a real leader.  If he wasn't a hypocrite.  If he actually stood up for the ideals that he espouses in his speeches....

    He would actually take a stand on some of the issues that are the hallmark of his candidacy.  

    Because he doesn't, that makes him a shell.  He's empty.  And he is a fraud.

    don't forget his staff-- (5.00 / 10) (#3)
    by Kathy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:46:23 AM EST
    as in, his staff filled out the questionnaire.  Then, there's the hillbillies who won't vote for him because they are stupid.  And KY was bamboozled by some emails.  And...the list goes on.  Never his fault.  BTD, do you still think he's going to bring this all together in the end?

    I say: get out of the way?  If only.

    Parent

    Well the groundwork was set (5.00 / 5) (#5)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:48:28 AM EST
    further cornering of the SDs with yesterdays hysterics.  

    Parent
    I read somewhere (5.00 / 5) (#8)
    by Kathy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:50:59 AM EST
    that party loyalist SDs were going overwhelmingly Clinton while elected SDs were favoring Obama.  What does that tell you about the party?

    I go back and forth when I read statements like this from Obama.  Is he thinking the fix is in, or does he have no idea what is going to happen?  Nailbiting time.

    Parent

    Well said (5.00 / 4) (#13)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:52:33 AM EST
    This primary will be talked about for decades to come. History will not be kind in its assessment of Obama, so he'll just have to write another book (I read he's on retainer for 3 more) to make sure it's remembered his way.

    Parent
    I know (5.00 / 4) (#67)
    by rnibs on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:15:58 AM EST
    this is a little ot, but she writes books about others and how to help (it takes a village), and he writes books about himself.  I think that tells us a little about where their respective interests lie.  

    Parent
    Nothing presumptuous or self-centered (1.00 / 0) (#84)
    by riddlerandy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:23:51 AM EST
    about Living History, LOL?

    Parent
    Living History (5.00 / 6) (#100)
    by Kathy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:33:43 AM EST
    was written when Clinton actually had a history: civil rights activist, first lady to one of the best presidents in recent history, one of the most well-known faces in the world, about to be US senator for NY.  The book was on the bestseller list for months in the US and was translated into over 40 languages, and was in turn on bestseller lists in Holland, France, Germany, Spain--basically every country you can think of down to Austria and Bulgaria.  She donated some of the proceeds to women's charities, as she had done with It Takes a Village.

    Obama wrote his first memoir when he was 33 years old. It sold around three thousand copies.  It didn't become a best seller until he made a speech and ran for the nomination.  He used his new book deal to buy a million dollar mansion, and still needed his slumlord pal's help to get it.

    That's what we in the biz call hubris.

    Parent

    ps: Carolyn Reidy came up with the title (5.00 / 0) (#108)
    by Kathy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:38:01 AM EST
    Not Clinton.

    It's a great title because Clinton actually lived that history.

    Parent

    And then again (1.00 / 0) (#136)
    by riddlerandy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:49:24 AM EST
    "Obama's reissued 1995 memoir, Dreams from My Father, has outsold Living History since the beginning of December, by 77,000 copies to 8,000. Obama's policy book, The Audacity of Hope, has sold 152,000 copies during the same period, making it the best-selling candidate book of the winter."

    Parent
    You are comparing (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by Kathy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:01:02 AM EST
    quarterly sales--"best candidate book of the winter."  Why not go back and look at the sales within the first quarter that Living History was published?

    I think you'll find that, all told, Living History has sold over 22 million copies worldwide.  During its first week on sale, it set a record for most sales ever of a non-fiction book and went on to sell more than 1 million during the first month, a world record until Harry Potter.

    Though, Obama's combined 200K over a four month period or so is impressive for a beginner, but if you compare a lifetime of sales, his are laughably puny by comparison.  Running for the nomination sure gave him a huge publicity boost.  Maybe he'll be able to buy his next million dollar mansion without an assist from a slumlord.

    (Just as a point of reference, Mary Higgins Clark sold around 200K during that same time period with just one book.  Patterson was at the same level with one of his Alex Cross's.  Add in paperback sales, and it's closer to a million)

    Parent

    You're right Kathy (1.00 / 0) (#160)
    by riddlerandy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:05:45 AM EST
    Hillary has a bright future as an author

    Parent
    It's true (5.00 / 5) (#169)
    by Kathy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:09:44 AM EST
    I can't wait to read her post-presidential biography after she has moved this country back on the right course.  Eight years of peace and prosperity after the wasteland of the Bush years.

    Maybe they'll call it, "Changing History."

    Parent

    I'd love to see her put a book out about this (5.00 / 0) (#171)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:10:21 AM EST
    campaign and pull in $100M next year if Obama takes the nomination away from her. When he loses the election, his books won't be worth much.

    Parent
    So he's following, getting out (5.00 / 9) (#2)
    by zfran on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:45:37 AM EST
    of the way, and certainly not leading. So, what can we expect, should he get elected!! UGH!

    It's only my opinion but you should expect (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:10:52 AM EST
    ineffectiveness lazering out of the oval office to the Jimmy Carter degree.  I love Jimmy Carter too.  He is a dear man.  One of the finest human beings.  But boy was he ever a really really ineffective president.

    Parent
    So we should watch how (5.00 / 5) (#4)
    by andgarden on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:46:40 AM EST
    his people vote next week.

    Whatever (5.00 / 6) (#6)
    by nell on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:49:46 AM EST
    too little, way too late. He could have gotten out of the way when it actually would have made a difference, like when the states wanted to have re-votes, or he could have made it clear a long time ago that he was cool with the states being seated.

    I hate how he does this - he stands in the way, ruins everything, and then after the damage is done steps back and says "Who me? Naaaahhhh!" Ugh.

    A candidate (5.00 / 15) (#7)
    by kenoshaMarge on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:50:29 AM EST
    that leads by getting out of the way is underwhelming to me.

    I have always believed that leading meant getting out in front and not getting out of the way.

    That said, I dislike Obama so much by now that I don't trust my ability to observe anything he says or does fairly.

    I'm with you on that last part (5.00 / 6) (#17)
    by Kathy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:53:09 AM EST
    but, I'd like to say that, like Clinton, he's a politician, and this is just him saying what he thinks is politically expedient.  You can't blame him for doing this double-speak, because the press lets him get away with it constantly no matter the issue.

    There is a reason he's blocking the seating.  I think that unnamed SD who said a while back that all Clinton needed to do was get the popular vote and close the delegate gap was speaking the truth.

    Parent

    I call this move (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:00:03 AM EST
    the McCain.  He says one thing publicly, acts another way and his final action is still something different.  What is left, the initial good talk that he put out cause people's attention span is so small and they don't follow through in the media.  McCain gets away with this all the time.  

    Frankly, I have such distrust for Obama, there is nothing he can do to redeem himself.  

    Parent

    But As BTD Says Down Thread, (5.00 / 7) (#40)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:05:26 AM EST
    McCain will be there to remind the FL and MI that Obama did not fight for them. When the time is right, the media will be very willing to help McCain do this IMO.

    Parent
    Yes, and McCain won't mince words like (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:16:22 AM EST
    he didn't do about the G.I. Bill he didn't support and Obama tried whining about.

    "I will not accept from Senator Obama, who did not feel it was his responsibility to serve our country in uniform, any lectures on my regard for those who did," McCain said in a statement. "Perhaps, if Senator Obama would take the time and trouble to understand this issue he would learn to debate an honest disagreement respectfully. But, as he always does, he prefers impugning the motives of his opponent, and exploiting a thoughtful difference of opinion to advance his own ambitions. If that is how he would behave as president, the country would regret his election."

    The bill, which President Bush has threatened to veto, would pay tuition and other expenses at a four-year public university for anyone who has served at least three years since the 2001 terrorist attacks. McCain is a cosponsor of a different version of the bill that would require soldiers to have more time in the service to get full benefits and to encourage them to stay in the military as a career.




    Parent
    I think this is (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by cmugirl on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:48:23 AM EST
    the first of many smackdowns Obama will experience.  And then the Obamacans will cry that McCain is being mean.

    Parent
    And McCain will say "Grown men (5.00 / 0) (#175)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:13:53 AM EST
    need to run for President, and if Mr. Obama thinks this is mean he will traumatized to discover how mean the global world can be".  It'll be more shooting fish in a barrel.

    Parent
    Absolutely (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by themomcat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:16:28 AM EST
    Obama may be the "media darling" now but come September they will turn on him like a pack of hungry wolves. The pitiful part is, Obama has given them their talking points. Couple that with all the skeletons yet to be revealed from his and Michele's closets, I expect this campaign to be dirtier than anything Gore or Kerry experienced.

    Parent
    Tell that to a diehard Obama fan. (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by Marco21 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:37:26 AM EST
    You'll get crickets.

    Trying to impress the fact that McCain is the media's darling and they'll breakup with Obama the minute they're side by side has been impossible.

    The media still calls McCain a maverick although he continues to be nothing of the sort.

    Barack's only fans on the tele this fall will be Olbermann and Huffingon. Good luck with that, Barack. You may not be heard in the vacuum of Saint McCain media love but at least you'll have a couple of buddies to cry with over waffles.

    Parent

    So far (5.00 / 6) (#88)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:25:22 AM EST
    McCain has done a beautiful job of describing exactly what Obama is doing, and the media are happy to report it.

    Parent
    He'll wait for the outcome then say (5.00 / 0) (#173)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:11:29 AM EST
    he was fighting for the people of FL and MI all along.

    Parent
    Not in the way? Of course he is. (5.00 / 4) (#9)
    by katiebird on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:51:54 AM EST
    Why else are there still questions about getting this settled?

    (cough) Obama king of the word-parsers (5.00 / 4) (#14)
    by katiebird on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:52:43 AM EST
    Didn't actually say anything, did he?

    Parent
    And as Toto pulls back the (5.00 / 6) (#10)
    by zfran on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:52:04 AM EST
    curtain, the Great and Powerful Oz is exposed!! I say, throw the bucket of water on 'em Dorothy!!

    Obama And His Surrogates Didn't Seem (5.00 / 8) (#11)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:52:09 AM EST
    reluctant to get involved in stopping the MI revote. So now he has no influence on what decision the DNC makes on FL? Also, once again this statement contradicts what his campaign said earlier in the week about FL.

    Obama is also set to hold a big rally in Florida, and while he has said he is committed to seating both states' delegates, his campaign has made it clear that they would not accept the original tallies. LINK
    Aaargh! Not another rally! (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by vcmvo2 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:44:50 AM EST
    How about he get out there and ask voters for their votes, retail style. Rallies are really just a way to get media attention. Ask voters, humbly, for their votes not their adoration. Very disappointing this emphasis on himself and not issues.

    Continuously disappointing. How can he be the nominee? I always vote Dem and I just can't see voting for this man. This issue is really troubling me. I keep waiting for the nonsense to stop and for him to start an actual campaign. But I've concluded it's like waiting for Godot!

    Parent

    They must deal with the mistake they made, but (5.00 / 0) (#159)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:05:25 AM EST
    he gets a free pass.

    FL did it wrong, so the Obama camp must fix the tallies. In MI, Obama did it wrong, so the Obama camp must fix the tallies.

    If there was any truth in the Obama kingdom idea that the Republicans see Hillary as the easier candidate to beat, the Republican owned media would not be so kind to him and so brutal to her. To count the number of media pundits now who I've seen say the democrats have chosen the weaker candidate (as though they weren't the conductor for this orchestra) has exceeded my finger count and is nearly half way through my toes.

    Parent

    So if he wins the Presidency... (5.00 / 14) (#12)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:52:28 AM EST
    He'll be the speechifier-in-chief.  I wonder who will be "the decider".

    See and this is exactly why selecting a candidate solely on the basis of perceived "electability" can be such a liability imo.

    What do you want to do about this conflict, Senator?

    I wanna make it right.

    How?

    By making it right.

    But how?

    By making it right, but its not up to me.

    Then who do we see about making it right?

    The DNC.

    Well they say you've rejected the proposals to make it right.  What do you need to make it right?

    It's not up to me.

    This is Kafakaesque.

    Maybe... (5.00 / 0) (#47)
    by cmugirl on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:07:52 AM EST
    He'll be the speechifier-in-chief.  I wonder who will be "the decider".

    Michelle? </snark>

    Parent

    Ok then (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by lilburro on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:52:58 AM EST
    the real question (IMO) is what Obama will say if the seating of the delegates leads to Clinton having a legitimate claim to the popular vote.  I imagine that will soon be asked of him in this context.

    I have yet to see anything admirable (5.00 / 10) (#16)
    by chancellor on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:53:08 AM EST
    in the campaign that Obama has run so far. Whatever the issue, the responses from Obama and his campaign always remind me of those vacuous and carefully parsed responses given by beauty pageant contestants.

    "World Peace!" (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:58:45 AM EST
    There was a great set of cards that I used to have that had old photos from the 40's, 50's and 60's on the front with captions.

    There was one with a picture of a young woman that read, "Kathy would have won the beauty pageant if only she had said 'World Peace' instead of 'Fashion First.'"

    Parent

    "I'd like to teach the world (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by Cream City on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:07:05 AM EST
    to sing in perfect harmony" -- unquote, the Miss America contestant who quoted a cola commercial when asked what she would do for world peace.  A music major and a Midwesterner, her talent act was a hula dance in a grass (maybe Midwestern hay?) skirt.

    And she won.

    I hope the voters of this great land of ours are better judges than were those at the beauty contest.

    Parent

    Well, that's politics (none / 0) (#18)
    by andgarden on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:54:24 AM EST


    Parent
    But Obama is supposed (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by zfran on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:55:30 AM EST
    to "transcend" politics?!

    Parent
    And Coca-Cola is (5.00 / 4) (#20)
    by andgarden on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:57:24 AM EST
    "the pause that refreshes."

    Parent
    I hope he's not the New Coke. n/t (5.00 / 6) (#26)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:59:52 AM EST


    Parent
    A product that's about a month (none / 0) (#36)
    by andgarden on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:04:01 AM EST
    older than me.

    Parent
    You survived longer and that's an (none / 0) (#41)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:05:59 AM EST
    understatement.

    Parent
    I think Coke II (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by andgarden on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:07:43 AM EST
    finally died a few years ago.

    But if you ever drink Coke in Europe. . .that's not "the real thing."

    (Jeez, Coke is so old that we can construct a conversation around its ad slogans.)

    Parent

    Obama's campaign is built on (5.00 / 4) (#56)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:11:22 AM EST
    "I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony . . ."

    Parent
    I know, and that's the problem. . . (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by andgarden on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:14:58 AM EST


    Parent
    Great (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by cmugirl on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:15:03 AM EST
    Now that song is gonna be in my head all day! (And I'm going to see the people dressed in all white skiing down the mountain holding candles while they sing it!)

    GRR!  :)

    Parent

    That's the Chrismas version? (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:19:31 AM EST
    Here is the original - Link.

    Parent
    Totally uncalled for (5.00 / 5) (#86)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:24:33 AM EST
    I will send you to Disney's  "It's a Small World" ride for punishment.  

    Parent
    LMAO (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:33:52 AM EST


    Parent
    Thanks for the memories. (none / 0) (#82)
    by zfran on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:22:13 AM EST
    Seriously, wouldn't it great to see that sort of America.

    Parent
    Song virus cure (none / 0) (#72)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:16:49 AM EST
    You can hum to your self Baby Elephant Walk, remember that?  Or Sukiyaki, it cures song viruses.  

    Parent
    Stellaaa, you and I must (none / 0) (#79)
    by zfran on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:19:52 AM EST
    be of similar age. I loved both!!

    Parent
    I used to like (none / 0) (#81)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:22:04 AM EST
    the Dr. Pepper ads, but did not like the flavor.  
    "I'm a pepper, you're a pepper".....

    Parent
    oops the songs..got it (none / 0) (#107)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:37:54 AM EST


    Parent
    OK, you've got to stop it now. (none / 0) (#70)
    by suki on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:16:24 AM EST
    My stomach is starting to hurt from laughing.

    Parent
    You're (none / 0) (#93)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:30:29 AM EST
    funny. Watch it or you might start to feel the same as I do.

    Parent
    Not even years (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:14:45 AM EST
    New Coke like New Politics did not take hold.  It fell flat.  

    Parent
    Exactly. (5.00 / 3) (#91)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:27:04 AM EST
    When the hype around the launch was over, no one ended up buying it.  They stuck with old Coke...

    That's what happens sometimes when all you're selling is sugar water.

    As Heidi Klum would say, "One day you're in and the next day you're out."

    Parent

    because Europe has outlawed (none / 0) (#57)
    by Kathy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:11:34 AM EST
    some of the chemicals that they use in US Coke.  Diet Coke (Coca-Lite) is mixed for regional tastes, too.  In Germany, it has much more bite than in Spain.  And per an agreement before Coke went into Europe, a percentage of the ingredients has to be locally sourced (just as with McDonald's, etc) so you get even fewer chemicals.

    But, aren't you guys supposed to be drinking Coke Zero, the manly man's Diet Coke?

    Parent

    Pffftt!! (none / 0) (#73)
    by lilburro on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:16:54 AM EST
    That's why Coke Light is better?  Jeesh.

    I guess you would know, being from ATL and all...

    Parent

    Sounds like the Atlanta girl (none / 0) (#75)
    by andgarden on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:17:46 AM EST
    knows what she's talking about. heh.

    Oh, and I think Coke Zero is nasty. I know it's supposed to use the "original formula" with Ace K instead of sugar, but it just doesn't work for me

    Diet Coke all the way! (more caffeine too.)

    Parent

    That is a great ad line (5.00 / 3) (#28)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:00:21 AM EST
    In fact, I am going to go get a Coke out of the fridge because of it.

    Just sayin'

    Parent

    Diet Coke for me (5.00 / 3) (#35)
    by andgarden on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:03:34 AM EST
    "just for the taste of it!"

    heh.

    Parent

    BTW (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:10:28 AM EST
    I think more apropo for Obama is Pepsi's line -"The Choice of a New Generation."

    Parent
    I'm tempted (5.00 / 4) (#62)
    by andgarden on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:13:41 AM EST
    to make a comment about Michael Jackson, but I'll just say that Coke still outsells Pepsi.

    Parent
    Ugh let's no go there (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:17:27 AM EST
    Or to the Madonna ad please.

    Parent
    Ah but you probably never saw the ad. (none / 0) (#92)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:29:56 AM EST
    The ad was pulled within 24 hours of its debut and it was completely different from the music video.  I know because that screw up stole several full three 24-hour days of my life.

    Parent
    How about Dr. Pepper's (none / 0) (#59)
    by zfran on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:13:09 AM EST
    old slogan: So Misunderstood!

    Parent
    Hillary is Dr. Pepper (none / 0) (#61)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:13:35 AM EST
    remember the ad campaign:  "Dr Pepper the most misunderstood soft drink in the world"  after yesterday.  

    Parent
    New Poll suggests (none / 0) (#94)
    by WelshWoman on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:30:47 AM EST
    It's not kool-aid that Obama followers drink it's Pepsi "The choice for the new CHANGE generation"

    Meanwhile Clinton supporters drink Coke

    "It's the real thing" It has a track record of bringing people together to vote in perfect harmony.

    Parent

    "Meanwhile Clinton supporter drink Coke" (5.00 / 0) (#125)
    by Dr Molly on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:46:30 AM EST
    Really? Not Mountain Dew?

    I thought Dew was the first choice of those racist white rednecks?

    Parent

    Heh (none / 0) (#126)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:47:09 AM EST
    How about that Calzaghe?

    Parent
    Clinton drinks Moxie n/t (5.00 / 2) (#141)
    by samanthasmom on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:51:49 AM EST


    Parent
    example of this, please? (5.00 / 11) (#24)
    by Kathy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:59:16 AM EST
    I mean--honestly.  I'd like one example.  It's just like his "bringing people together" crap.  Give me ONE EXAMPLE (other than the current state of the dem party) where he's brought people together.  Give me ONE EXAMPLE where he stood up for something, fought for something, and took true political heat for it.  One risk.  One unpopular cause he championed.  Please--anything!

    The FL and MI situation are a huge missed opportunity for him.  He is either being too arrogant or is too politically blind to see that.  Anyone paying attention to this man's career can draw a pattern here.  That's why I keep asking: what in his past makes you think he'll unite us?  He has never shown the ability or inclination to do any of it.

    You can't just make a speech about how you are for or against something, then sit on your hands while folks in the trenches battle it out.  That might have worked throughout his political career to date, but this is the big leagues.

    Parent

    I Don't Think His Initial Message Was About (5.00 / 6) (#63)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:13:53 AM EST
    uniting the Dems. It was about uniting with the Republicans and much of his primary run has been focused on this effort.

    It is only in the last couple of weeks that he has mentioned a united Democratic Party. Of course, while he speaks about unity, his surrogates continue to issue hit pieces against Clinton.

     

    Parent

    One example: (clear throat) (none / 0) (#33)
    by zfran on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:02:12 AM EST
    When his wife was attacked for her words, he said he didn't like it and that it should stop and that if anyone had anything to say, it should be directed at him, he was the candidate. (sorry, frog in throat)


    Parent
    oh, yeah (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Kathy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:04:54 AM EST
    he got into a lot of trouble for taking up for Michelle.

    More frog, my friend?

    Parent

    But Bill and Chelsea are fair game (5.00 / 3) (#46)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:07:47 AM EST
    because they aren't related to him.

    Parent
    Like this? (none / 0) (#102)
    by samanthasmom on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:34:08 AM EST
    LINK

    Parent
    Hmm (5.00 / 5) (#21)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:57:33 AM EST
    I find this comment thread interesting. Does anyone think I am praising Obama in this post?

    If you will review my posts, I have urged him to lead the the fight to seat the delegates.

    I think he is making a mistake. A November miatake to be sure.

    I know what I would do if I were  McCain later. I would say something like:

    "My friends, when Florida needed Barack Obama to lead and fight for you during the delegate controversy, he said "I am not in the way." When the time came to fight for Florida and Floridians, Barack Obama did not answer the call. When Democrats in WASHINGTON DC took something from Florida, Barack Obama did not answer the call.

    Well, I am not going to do that. I will fight for Florida. I will fight against what Washington DC does to Florida.

    I WILL get in the way. I will get Washington DC to do what is right. For Florida and for all America!"  

    I also like this line (5.00 / 12) (#23)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:58:49 AM EST
    "When the time came to fight for Florida, Barack Obama offered to hold your coat."

    Parent
    McCain should hire me as his speechwriter (5.00 / 13) (#25)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:59:20 AM EST


    Parent
    LOL (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by themomcat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:04:25 AM EST
    You should be Clinton's speech writer but she does pretty well on her own. No, I did not think you were complementing Obama's statement. I think you saw right through it as meaningless.

    Parent
    You and I nominate Kathy. (none / 0) (#29)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:01:28 AM EST
    ha...ha..

    Parent
    Haha! Coat! (5.00 / 3) (#31)
    by Kathy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:02:05 AM EST
    Seriously--I think he'd staff that out.

    Speaking for me, I don't think you're advocating Obama's approach here in any way.  You've been railing against him for not taking a more active stance on MI and FL since, well, MI and FL.

    You can't be more clear than: he chose to get out of the way.

    It conjures the image of Obama standing on the side of the road with his hands in his pockets while buses zoom by (probably thinking, "haha, wait until you get up the road, I've left plenty of folk for you to roll over")

    Parent

    That was nice of him. (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:09:44 AM EST
    Funny how he didn't notice that because you were in Florida you didn't actually have a coat.  But it's the thought that counts eh?

    Parent
    I get you (none / 0) (#58)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:12:36 AM EST
    But in case others do not, Obama did not say that.

    Parent
    Not a winner. The Obama supporters will claim (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by ding7777 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:36:04 AM EST
    that "Barack Obama offered to hold your coat." is racist.

    Parent
    While I think your argument is fair (none / 0) (#179)
    by ajain on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:17:57 AM EST
    The media will not let him make that argument.
    They will call it a cheap shot. You wait and watch, no matter what St. Obama does or says, he is the best and always right. There is no argument to make against him or his leadership that is not a political cheapshot or "dirty" politics.

    I think Obama's real chance of winning lies in the hand of the media. That's all. No where else. He has far too many weaknesses otherwise.

    Parent

    I Think The Obama Rulz Will Only Last (5.00 / 0) (#191)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:32:27 AM EST
    while Hillary is still in the picture. McCain will be the "media darling" in the GE with a few exception like ObamaKeith.

    Parent
    Yes, (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by suki on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:01:58 AM EST
    he's handing McCain another club to beat him with in the GE. He does this a lot - what seemingly works for him in the primary will be poison in the general.

    Parent
    No, I didn't think it was praise (5.00 / 3) (#39)
    by katiebird on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:04:58 AM EST
    But, I still disagree -- I don't think he is actually getting out of the way. AND I don't think he's really saying anything either.

    Parent
    If you leave out the first part, (none / 0) (#34)
    by chancellor on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:03:12 AM EST
    directly referencing Obama, I think that's pretty much what Clinton is saying. Unfortunately, the media seems to feel that Hillary's fight for the FL and MI voters merely indicates that she is getting in the way of The Presumptuous Nominee's path to glory.

    Parent
    This example (none / 0) (#43)
    by coolit on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:07:28 AM EST
    of get out of the way is just the perfect way to summarize his campaign.  It's a phrase that could be explained in a thousand words.  It just says so much.

    Parent
    Exactly. (none / 0) (#50)
    by snstara on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:09:37 AM EST
    He's handed McCain more talking points for the general.

    I can't believe that, after 2000, we have any democrat who thinks getting out of the way is the right strategy in FL.

    Parent

    It's Gore's fault (none / 0) (#104)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:36:25 AM EST
    An Inconvenient Truth put FL underwater. Obama is just trying to get the country used to not having FL around.

    Parent
    Then we'd only be down to (5.00 / 2) (#109)
    by zfran on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:39:18 AM EST
    56 (57) states.

    Parent
    Well, once Obama is the nominee (none / 0) (#60)
    by lilburro on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:13:23 AM EST
    this attitude will be legitimized and certified.  It will be seen as what the head of the Dem Party wanted to do (or didn't do).  Not exactly helpful downticket, is it?  We may be shooting ourselves and Florida in the foot for years.

    Parent
    No worries, my friend! (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by cmugirl on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:17:55 AM EST
    My Obama-loving co-workers (who are talking over me about the RFK thing as we speak) tell me that the number of Dems who won't vote for Obama will shrink as we get closer to election day.  We'll all come back together - right now we're just mad about our candidate losing, but we'll come back.  They don't believe me when I tell them they sorely underestimate the level and depth of anger directed as the Presumptuous One.

    If I didn't actually like these two men, I'd give them the raspberries...

    Parent

    Well tell them (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:19:56 AM EST
    since the election is half and half lets nominate Hillary and they will get over it.  

    Parent
    Men always say this (5.00 / 12) (#90)
    by Kathy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:26:34 AM EST
    That we'll get over it, that we're just "emotional" right now, but we'll come around in November, ostensibly because we are terrified that our reproductive rights will be taken from us.  

    I remember Cream telling someone long ago that she didn't eat grapes for 10 years because of the boycott.  Another woman said she hadn't eaten bananas for two years because of another boycott.

    It seems funny to me how a lot of these men underestimate how long a woman can stand on principal.  This is not a hot flash.  This is not PMS.  This is absolute disgust and fury.  It's not just about Obama, it is about the DNC standing idly by while one of the most respected women in our country is vilified by sexist mongrels like Tweety, KO, and whoever else wants a chance at the throwing a ball at the dunking machine.  We will not forget and we will not go back.

    Rise, Hillary, Rise!

    Parent

    It's not just PMS (5.00 / 6) (#98)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:31:44 AM EST
    I keep repeating, I do not want a "movement" to run America.  I want to bring back democracy.  Please.  A movement is in to protect itself.  

    Parent
    Wal-Mart Is My Boycott Of Choice (none / 0) (#119)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:44:58 AM EST
    and I haven't shopped there for over 10 years.

    Also, it won't IMO be just women who won't vote for Obama. Conservative Dems won't vote for Obama either because of Wright and Ayers and being labeled racists and uneducated.

     

    Parent

    Me too! (none / 0) (#185)
    by cmugirl on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:23:05 AM EST
    Even if I have to drive miles out of my way!

    Parent
    Jane Austen says (none / 0) (#121)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:45:41 AM EST
    The one claim I shall make for my own sex is that we love longest, when all hope is gone."
    -- Anne Elliot in Persuasion

    Parent
    Why, Armando! (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by Kathy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:48:57 AM EST
    Are you turning into a romantic on us?

    Parent
    Nah (5.00 / 3) (#157)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:03:48 AM EST
    Just an elitist.

    Parent
    shouldn't that be "tepid" elitist? (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by Kathy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:06:58 AM EST


    Parent
    A tepid (none / 0) (#189)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:29:44 AM EST
    renaissance(sp) man.

    Parent
    Ewwww (none / 0) (#165)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:07:23 AM EST
    That's called Codependency.  So is believing in fairytale men.

    Parent
    Yeh, but I'm not sure if my obstinacy (none / 0) (#187)
    by Cream City on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:28:45 AM EST
    is hormonal or hereditary, Kathy.  It could be my gender, it could be the Irisher in me -- coming from a couple of clans in a county that still is an IRA stronghold, from a family on one side with the first mayor of a town here in the Midwest that was set up as a training camp to send forces back to Eire to fight the Brits . . . and from a family on the other side that included mining men in the West who were in the infamous Molly McGuires and women who were fierce suffragists in the West, where the vote was won first.

    Many of us across this country come from a long line of foremothers of many ethnicities who came her for the dream of our fathers and mothers -- for freedom, for democracy -- and overcame unimaginable odds for their descendants to have the lives that they were denied.  They did not win so much for us by getting "out of the way."  They got in the faces of the entrenched establishment that was in their way, and they had a poor opinion of wussing out on what counts.  Count the votes!

    And for pity's sake, thousands of voters in Michigan (and maybe Florida, but I know my Midwest) come from foremothers and forefathers who were here for thousands of years before our ancestors came.  The First People and many Metis were denied citizenship for much of this country's history.  To not count their votes now?  It's beyond imagining that any Dem candidate would just get "out of the way" in the face of such a travesty.
     

    Parent

    pffffft PMS..... (none / 0) (#206)
    by kelsweet on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:18:08 AM EST
    He11 hath no fury like a woman scorned....  times several million...  

    Parent
    well, I was reading posts from (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by lilburro on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:24:16 AM EST
    October to January on this site earlier to get a feel for what the attitude was like back then, and what people were saying at the time about policies, philosophies, etc. of each candidate.  I saw some stories I missed earlier.  But the level of candidate-defensiveness and support is ballistic compared to back then.  Possibly for good reason.  But it is a real problem.  Barack Obama has not controlled the level of vitrol among his supporters.  Telling a crowd they'll have to "be nice" to Clinton supporters is hardly the measure he'll need to take.  He has two problems:  get his supporters to knock it off, and stand up for something Clinton supporters like.  He won't be able to coast on defending Roe v. Wade.

    Parent
    In Oct to Jan (5.00 / 3) (#148)
    by rnibs on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:57:46 AM EST
    I was willing to vote for any Dem.  It's what has transpired since then.  I still can't believe the Dem party may nominate someone I can't vote for.  If they do, I really don't want to vote at all.  I know I'm gonna have to drag myself to the polls to vote Dem downticket.  I'm actually going to have to vote for some people I don't want to vote for because they're super D's for Obama.  But I think we're going to need a Dem congress to offset McCain.  Two years ago, we finally got rid of a Repub who'd been in there forever.

    Parent
    Things have definitely changed since then (5.00 / 3) (#178)
    by Dr Molly on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:17:41 AM EST
    A lot of Obama supporters contend that it's petty and childish to not vote for Obama in response to what has happened in the primary with some of his more vicious and childish supporters. I think there are several things that are leading people away from supporting him. And I think that some Obama supporters are somewhat insensitive about how upset people are by the campaign and the supporters.

    First, it is overly simplistic to think that the level of systemic and sustained abuse that has been going on with the liberal blogs and the MSM won't permanently drive people away. In some ideal world where humans have no emotions, should voters rise above and vote for the democrat no matter how much sexist and vicious abuse has been perpetrated by his supporters? Maybe. But we're only human for god's sake. And we're not talking about a few statements here and there. This has been a sustained and vicious lynching of Hillary and Bill (and Chelsea for that matter). I've personally never seen anything like it. And many women feel that there is little choice other than a protest vote because most people are denying that sexism is even occurring for crying out loud. They just will not listen or change it.

    Second, I think a lot of Obama supporters do not realize how hurt and betrayed a lot of white democrats feel by the racialization of this campaign. I think a lot of white democrats are life-long liberals who are ashamed of the history of slavery in this country, ashamed of the continued economical and racial barriers that AAs face, and have worked sincerely during their lives to make things a little better - through volunteerism, through voting AAs into office and working for their campaigns, through supporting affirmative action programs, through financial support of programs, through all kinds of actions. And now they feel like there is an undercurrent of incredible racial hostility being thrown their way that is unwarranted. From talking to some of my white democratic friends and neighbors, I understand that there are a lot of feelings of betrayal, hurt and shock at being viewed as racists and at the smearing of the Clintons as racists.

    I sincerely wish none of this polarization had happened. But there is a lot of anger, hurt, and defensiveness. And I think it is unrealistic to simply say "get over it and vote for the democrat no matter what".

    Parent

    I know. (none / 0) (#197)
    by lilburro on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:38:50 AM EST
    There has got to be a moment sometime in this campaign where we say, what have we become?  You can't blame this situation on any one person, but if Obama is the nominee he will have to lead on changing it.

    Parent
    He can't pretend he doesn't know, and (none / 0) (#115)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:43:02 AM EST
    doesn't care that his campaign is showing such disrespect, that his followers are violently abusive with their words, or that they are all just a pack a bullies. He wouldn't have told them they should be nice if he didn't know they were being so rude.


    Parent
    Maybe the mushrooms (none / 0) (#99)
    by oldpro on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:33:21 AM EST
    instead...

    ...kidding....kidding...

    Parent

    I have no idea (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by WelshWoman on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:02:08 AM EST
    on how the political process works in America but did Obama just throw the DNC under the bus.

    He is saying its the DNC's fault that they won't allow the delegates to be seated, surely this will cause problems for the Dems in November.

    I've nicknamed Obama - Shaggy "Wasn't me"

    I like that part frankly (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:07:35 AM EST
    But he needs to tell Florida and Michigan he is gonna fight for their delegates.

    Parent
    Obama to MI and FL: (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by andgarden on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:09:05 AM EST
    "It's all Howard Dean's fault."

    I wonder what the Creative Class will think of that?

    Parent

    They will create a rationale to support him. (5.00 / 7) (#97)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:31:33 AM EST
    That's why they are called the creative class don't ya know.

    Parent
    (giggle) (none / 0) (#54)
    by katiebird on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:10:51 AM EST
    I think he "needs" to do more than that.  He "needs" to go to the DNC meeting and personally plea for them (FL AND MI) to be seated with full voting rights and all the authority of every other delegation.

    It's past the point of telling anyone that he will fight.

    Parent

    Come On Now (5.00 / 2) (#130)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:48:36 AM EST
    IMO Obama is not just getting out of the way. Behind the scenes, his campaign is blocking any effort to seat MI and FL based on the original votes.

    Parent
    I totally agree (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by katiebird on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:52:22 AM EST


    Parent
    Personally, I think the DNC gave him the pass (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:49:52 AM EST
    to blame it on them. I really think they are all in this together.

    Relax, Obama, we've got this covered.

    Parent

    My favorite (5.00 / 8) (#42)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:06:27 AM EST
    `There's no constituency that we can't reach.''

    In Sunrise, Obama spun around to admire the cheering, stomping crowd, noting, ''This is hard-core.'' They even applauded madly when he grabbed a different microphone. ''I haven't done anything yet,''

    Honestly, do we need someone like this to be president?  does he not get it that half of the Democrats voted against him?  

    I think we should all call (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by zfran on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:08:58 AM EST
    and vote him off american idol!!!

    Parent
    Mr. Geography (5.00 / 6) (#122)
    by Athena on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:45:43 AM EST
    "How's it going Sunshine? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you everybody. It's good to be in Sunshine!"

    --Barack Obama in Sunrise, Florida

    Off the ABC site today.

    Parent

    He's not (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by rnibs on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:07:16 AM EST
    a very good listener from what I can tell.  He does stuff like this all the time.

    It's like with the 57 states thing.  It's not like it just rolled off his tongue.  I saw the tape and he actually paused to think about it and still came up with the number 57.  Stuff like this, and his inability to answer a question without saying "uh" several million times makes me think that claims that he's brilliant are wrong.  He's smart, but not brilliant.  Hillary's a lot smarter, imo, and can run cirlces around him on anything face-to-face.  That's why he won't meet her.  He's better at giving speeches, but not much else.  

    Parent

    That's priceless!!!! Thanks (none / 0) (#129)
    by zfran on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:48:32 AM EST
    for picking that up, Athena.

    Parent
    It seems he's forgotten (none / 0) (#95)
    by rnibs on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:31:08 AM EST
    about Appalachia and the Clinton wing of the Democratic party?

    Parent
    Just (5.00 / 5) (#52)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:10:22 AM EST
    another example of Obama passing the buck to someone or something else. Nothing new here. It's been obvious to me for quite a while that he isn't a leader and it's not looking like he'll "grow" into one either.

    I find myself hitting complete and total and utter (5.00 / 3) (#77)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:18:16 AM EST
    outrage. I find myself about to not play nice anymore and not really care either.

    Here's a song for Hillary supporters (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:31:13 AM EST
    The Isley Brothers  "Fight the Power" - the lyrics are great

    Time is truly wastin'

    There's no guarantee

    Smile's in the makin'

    You gotta fight the powers that be

    Got so many forces

    Stayin' on the scene

    Givin' up all around me

    Faces full a' pain

    I can't play my music

    They say my music's too loud

    I kept talkin about it

    I got the big run around

    When I rolled with the punches

    I got knocked on the ground

    With all this bullsh*t going down

    . . . I don't understand it

    People wanna see, ya

    Those that got the answers

    Red tape in the way

    . . . You gotta fight the powers that be

    If you & I can - we got the power

    Fight it, got the power fight it........baby, baby

    Fight it, fight the power
    It's a mystery (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Manuel on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:34:22 AM EST
    Why won't he do what many of us see as beneficial for party unity and his campaign?  Does he fear that Hillary can still get the nomination?  Or is this just overkill?  Obama is very cautious.  Recall that in his first race he challenged the petitions of every other candidate to knock them off the ballot.

    We need a thread (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:39:41 AM EST
    for DNC rules committee predictions.  How can we predict what the great wise ones will decide?  

    Time yet for that (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:41:07 AM EST
    We will have a Recount! viewing party tomorrow though.

    Parent
    Awesome... (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:45:17 AM EST
    but remember the time zone thing, don't give away the ending.  

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#134)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:48:59 AM EST


    Parent
    I have to hand it (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by rnibs on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:19:33 AM EST
    to BTD.  A lot of Obama supporters want to block FL and MI.  I remember 2000.  I wanted Gore to win, but only if he truly did.  Then we got that travesty of a recount.

    My Mom was at my brother's in Dallas.  He and his friends all were Bushies, and she said only one of them (and sadly, it wasn't my brother) said that he wanted Bush, but only if he really did win.  

    I'm glad I'll be able to watch Recount without feeling hypocritical.  Even if roles were switched, I'd want it in.

    Wish there were re-votes.  Even if they are seated, there will always be questions.

    Parent

    Recount (none / 0) (#127)
    by Athena on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:47:14 AM EST
    Good. I was hoping for that.

    Parent
    Despite my joking about being a McCain speechwrite (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:40:17 AM EST
    there will be no organizing to be against Obama, if he is the nominee, and/or for McCain here.

    but-but-but (5.00 / 3) (#116)
    by Kathy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:43:22 AM EST
    we've already printed  up the tee shirts and gotten some of those little rubber bracelets everybody wears!

    Parent
    I got my buttons (5.00 / 4) (#124)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:46:22 AM EST
    "hicks and chicks  together again"  

    Parent
    LOL! (5.00 / 5) (#145)
    by Dr Molly on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:55:22 AM EST
    rubes and boobs?

    Parent
    My husband suggested (5.00 / 4) (#147)
    by samanthasmom on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:56:58 AM EST
    P.O.W.'s for McCain  (P!ssed off women)

    Parent
    OMG, I really do have a silly button maker (none / 0) (#144)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:54:48 AM EST
    around here that my teenager left behind.  I live in Alabama.  You don't have a copyright.  

    Parent
    No... (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:56:37 AM EST
    go ahead and send me one.

    Parent
    Are the bracelets matching? (5.00 / 2) (#135)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:49:10 AM EST
    I need to feel like I belong.  I'm feeling fragile (imagine me feeling fragile ;) I guess $hit happens), can we create a cultlike atmosphere in order for me to feel more confident about myself?  I think it would help a lot.

    Parent
    I won't vote for him (none / 0) (#200)
    by rnibs on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:45:11 AM EST
    but I won't organize against him.  I figure everyone should vote their conscience.  

    I'm not even telling some of the people that I've converted from Independents to Dems (OK, so it's only four people, but in my state, that counts) that I'm not voting for Obama.  I spent a lot of time converting them and wouldn't want them to suddenly turn around and see me not doing what I say one must always do, which is vote Dem.

    Parent

    If you're not part of the solution (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by oldpro on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:48:58 AM EST
    you're part of the problem.

    Whatever happened to THAT?

    Puuleeeease, old people think that way (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:51:47 AM EST
    and look what has happened to the world ;)  No more old people in the new and improved Democratic party!  Florida is chock full of old people just sittin around in heaven's waiting room messing the world up!

    Parent
    Oh, OKAAAY, (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by oldpro on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:00:49 AM EST
    dangit.

    It's 8 ayem here so it's back to bed for my mornin' nap.

    You younguns behave, now...don't be drinkin' all the coke in the icebox fer breakfas...

    (Ice box.  Catch that?  We really did have an icebox...25#, please!  And a cooler with a screen).

    Sigh...

    Parent

    MAde me think of the (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:07:59 AM EST
    Honeymooners for some reason.

    Florida connection probably, Jackie Gleason used to do his show from Miami Beach.

    You know the funny thing is, I am 45 years old, I think of myself as young.

    But the New Generation probably has no idea of who Jackie Gleason or The Honeymooners is or heck, that there is a Miami Beach beyond South Beach.

    Parent

    45 years old? (5.00 / 2) (#176)
    by Kathy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:14:25 AM EST
    You should just be glad you're not a Clinton supporter.  You'd be "elderly."

    The really sad  thing is that they know the Honeymooners, but only through reinventions of the skits.  My niece was laughing at something on one of her stupid teenager shows, and it was basically the old Lucy sketch at the chocolate factory where she ate all the candy coming off the line.  My niece has no idea who Lucille Ball is or what she did.  Talk about women breaking new ground!

    Now I know how my dad felt when he said that Liza Minnelli was such a fine performer, and I said, "You mean the lady who was on Love Boat last week?"

    Parent

    Lucy (5.00 / 2) (#183)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:21:41 AM EST

    Three classics -

    Stomping Grapes.

    Vitavetavtiamins

    The Chocolate Factory



    Parent
    No Looking Back (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by Athena on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:18:34 AM EST
    They don't remember the Clinton 90's; they casually dismiss the only person who wrestled 8 years out of what would have been nearly 30 years of a GOP White House.


    Parent
    I'm in the same age demo (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by Valhalla on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:53:49 AM EST
    And I've noticed I'm counted as 'young' where the demo goes for Obama but 'old' where it goes to Clinton.

    Parent
    Dude, you think Florida needs a coat (none / 0) (#180)
    by andgarden on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:18:18 AM EST
    Geezer!

    Parent
    Florida Democrats (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by GGINPB on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:58:46 AM EST
    The NY Times has a story today re Obama's campaign for FL's Jewish voters and while I understand the angle was religion/ support for Israel it was ridiculous to write this kind of story and leave out entirely the Primary debacle. Most of the Jews I know in FL (and I am one and know a great many others) are much angrier about that than because we think he's Muslim and/or  anti-Israel!

    Fakeout (5.00 / 2) (#184)
    by Athena on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:22:07 AM EST
    It's a fakeout to Florida - pay no attention to the candidate who denied you a vote in your own party.

    It's the political equivalent of Roe v. Wade for women - simply say Roe and the women follow you or simply say Israel and you win Jewish voters.

    Wrong.  Stepford hypnosis will not work this year.  People are paying attention to what's really going on.

    Parent

    Obama to let Fla/Mich sit at KID'S TABLE!!! (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by kenosharick on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:03:06 AM EST
    isn't that magnanimous of him? The totally in the Obama bag media never questions his wording.So they get seated, so what? Will they have any real input? Are the media afraid to ask him any real questions? Maybe they are afraid of being attacked as were ABC's reporters.

    The Kid's Table is the place to be (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:08:58 AM EST
    in this election we are told.

    Parent
    He is a tool (1.00 / 0) (#190)
    by Mrwirez on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:31:28 AM EST
    The more he lies and pretends he did nothing makes me burn. Remember Da Rulz-da rulz meme. I have family in Clearwater Florida, my cousin is an attorney for Honeywell, they have been keeping me posted. Team Obama did everything they could to keep Florida out of the process, now with him looking like he may have got the nomination.... well "I'm not blocking anything". AGAIN, I will not vote for this guy.

    why is it (none / 0) (#68)
    by pammc on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:16:21 AM EST
    that NOTHING is his fault ? we already have a persident like that. He wants to be KING Obama

    Let's help McCain more,says Obama (none / 0) (#83)
    by jeffinalabama on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:23:11 AM EST
    'see, I'm a coat-holder for people who want an advocate, and I'm an advocate for a new way of politicsa-- I guess I'm a coat-holder for a new way of politics.'

    I am trying to find a good reason to rally behind him when or if he wins, but between his noncomments and his supporters, I am continually turned away.

    OT, BTD, the offer for barbecue sti;; stands...

    still* (none / 0) (#89)
    by jeffinalabama on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:25:45 AM EST
    and I made that mistake after proofreading... I might need to stick to barbecue. Hope you like beer or coke-- no orange juice here! /*snark

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#105)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:37:06 AM EST
    When the Might Gators travel to the Plains to demolish the schizo War Eagle/Tigers next Fall, you are on.

    Toomer's Corners will be safe that weekend.

    Parent

    OH NO YOU DID NOT! (5.00 / 3) (#114)
    by Kathy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:41:15 AM EST
    Gator meat will be sizzling on the grills!  The toilet paper flying in Toomer's Corner will have the blood of gators on it!

    (and I believe Auburn is located in Appalachia, not the plains, according to the New Obama World Order, or NOWO)

    Parent

    I'd Like to teach (5.00 / 3) (#117)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:44:34 AM EST
    Appalachia to sing . . .

    That's the new geography.

    Parent

    Auburn is now in Appalachia huh? (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:59:55 AM EST
    Our son is eight and has informed us already that he's going to Auburn.  It is an Alabama requirement that by the age of eight your children must either be pledged to Auburn or Alabama and it seems to be something ingrained in the DNA of each child at conception.  If you can't afford Auburn you have to waterboard your kids to get them to accept going to Alabama.  Now you're telling me that I'm paying top dollar for hillbilly children but they will be in the Hillary zone?  hmmmmmm, okay

    Parent
    It's on. (none / 0) (#123)
    by jeffinalabama on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:46:01 AM EST
    you want me to get you tickets?

    Parent
    Yes for everything (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:51:15 AM EST
    Also go pick up my drycleaning . . .

    Naw, my big shot Auburn alum brother can take care of that for me.

    Parent

    Heh. I knew there was SOME education (none / 0) (#152)
    by jeffinalabama on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:00:45 AM EST
    in your family!

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#170)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:09:56 AM EST


    Parent
    OHOHOH! (none / 0) (#131)
    by jeffinalabama on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:48:51 AM EST
    And you have to guest lecture in a class-- you choose the topic.

    Parent
    History of Rock and Roll (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:52:11 AM EST
    Isn't that one of the killer classes at Auburn?

    Parent
    nah, that's somewhere else-- (none / 0) (#150)
    by jeffinalabama on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:59:19 AM EST
    we have 'introduction to wood' and 'comportment 100.'

    Too bad we don't play this year. AU plays Tennessee in the usual Florida slot... We'll meet up in Atlanta for the Championship game of Football (discounting completely the Big 10, PAC 10, and ACC here).

    Parent

    "History of Beer" (5.00 / 1) (#203)
    by Cream City on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:58:18 AM EST
    is a decidedly popular class in Milwaukee.  Also "History of Baseball" and "History of Football."  Gotta have something for the business majors to meet their liberal arts requirements.  (But then they find out that these really are history classes and require reading, as they say, "whole books.")

    Parent
    FL doesn't play Auburn? (none / 0) (#155)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:02:14 AM EST
    I thought that was a permanent game in the rotation?

    Lucky War Eagle/Tigers/Plainsmen.

    And of course, the SEC Champion is always the best team in the land and everyone knows it.

    Parent

    The SEC decided to manipulate some of the (none / 0) (#158)
    by jeffinalabama on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:04:39 AM EST
    traditional rivalries. Heck, they even want to call the Florida UGA game something other than the worlds largest cocktail party.

    Political correctess-- the UGA chancellor says too many students drink and drive.

    Parent

    Good luck with that one . . . (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:10:55 AM EST


    Parent
    This is all alien to me so I don't root for anyone (none / 0) (#186)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:23:31 AM EST
    it is much more fun to watch anyhow.  Someone stole one of my girlfriends 2006 Year of the Gator flags she had draping her porch.  She says it was the Alabama losers across the street.  Then she got new ones and instead of putting them back on the curtainish rod she strung big chain on her porch, threaded them through it and then padlocked the chain ends to these giant eyehooks under her porch soffit.  I'm having too much fun just watching, but when they go to that largest cocktail party thing it's like they are going to prom or something.

    Parent
    Decisive leadership: . . . (none / 0) (#87)
    by Doc Rock on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:25:07 AM EST
    . . . that's what's bringing them in!

    I just fell down the rabbit hole! (none / 0) (#113)
    by Molly Pitcher on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:41:14 AM EST
    I thought Clinton was trying to get Florida seated with all delegates pledged according to primary results. That would include accepting delegates pledged to Obama. Why bring up ceding delegates at all, particularly since one argument against MI is the issue of who gets the uncommitted votes (which should go to roll call as uncommitted).  I've got a headache now.  And what about pop vote?  Headache is worse.

    How very big of him (none / 0) (#138)
    by OxyCon on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:50:07 AM EST
    After the media crowned him king, now he can flip-flop on this controversy and act like the big man.
    Utter bullsh*t.

    Interpretation (none / 0) (#161)
    by margph on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:06:06 AM EST
    No, BTD, it is not "getting out of the way."  He is following on this one -- and hoping.  Why is it that you constantly give this guy breaks?  You know that posture is increasingly bing interpreted as "Obama needs to be given breaks."

    It does go back to your three-part answer:  Lead, follow, or get out of the way.  I don't think leading is in the fabric of his personality.

    Unclear on the concept (none / 0) (#174)
    by Lupin on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:12:45 AM EST
    I literally do not understand your point.

    Initially, the DNC made a decision. Clinton is now appealing it, if you will. What exactly would you have liked Obama to say in this situation?

    a) I support Sen. Clinton.
    b) I support the DNC.
    c) I'm not a party to this

    He chose (c). That doesn't strike me as unreasonable.

    I choose D (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:16:58 AM EST
    He should have said "I support Florida."

    you are in a Clinton hating frame of mind, not in a "winning in November" frame of mind.

    Parent

    Getting over it and coming together..... (none / 0) (#193)
    by kc on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:32:41 AM EST
    Know you've all moved on, but just had to say that I'm probably the queen of not getting over things.

    I still boycott Exon for the Alaskan oil spill.

    Have boycotted Walmart for years.

    Also, boycott Proctor and Gamble.

    Also, boycott all veal--since 1984.

    What else..................

    I didn't watch (none / 0) (#198)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:41:11 AM EST
    ABC for a year after Path to 9/11.

    I did go to Walmart once during the boycott.  It was the only store for literally miles.  Haven't been there before or since.

    Parent

    Changing the dem party is a multi- (none / 0) (#194)
    by zfran on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:33:34 AM EST
    generational and educational endevour. Start with the young, but enfold the middle and elderly and through the generations, voila, change. Just like Iraq, we didn't try educationally and gradually. Bingo, forget your 16th century ways of living and come immediately into the 21st century. The new Dem party is just tossing everyone who doesn't fit the mold. If Obama is the new, no thanks.

    What do his surrogates say? (none / 0) (#204)
    by MarkL on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:58:32 AM EST
    That is the test of how much he is really standing aside.
    I don't believe it for a moment.

    To BTD (none / 0) (#205)
    by WelshWoman on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:59:06 AM EST
    How about that Calzaghe?

    He is the man, lives up in the valleys but I won't hold that against him.

    Good man who is loyal to his family and not spoilt by his fame.

    Regarding Kathy's Comment Nbr. 8 (none / 0) (#209)
    by cal1942 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 04:36:22 PM EST
    "I read somewhere that party loyalist SDs were going overwhelmingly Clinton while elected SDs were favoring Obama.  What does that tell you about the party?"

    It tells us that office holders always need money. Obama has bought many. It tells us that office holders are more vulnerable to intimidation.  Obama intimidation tactics include threatening incumbents with primary challengers.

    Meet the new boss same as the old boss.

    Don't (none / 0) (#210)
    by tek on Sat May 24, 2008 at 07:18:50 PM EST
    really get his anwer.  He's the one who has objected to every proposed solution.  He keeps saying he wants the delegates at the convention but he never says at what point.  He's never said, Yes, Hillary can have the delegates she won in FL & MI.

    changing (none / 0) (#211)
    by tek on Sat May 24, 2008 at 07:32:14 PM EST
    the Democratic Party.  Perhaps I misunderstand your statement, but I don't know why anyone would think the "young" have to initiate change among liberals.  Older Democrats are NOT latently racist as Obama claims.  They were out making sure everyone in this country had civil rights before he was born.  They struggled and DIED getting rights for laborers, children, women, immigrants, minorities, and they fought off the Robber Barons of the first Gilded Age.  Because of the dedication of the older generations, Barack Obama is able to run for president today.  

    It's not the older generations who have climbed on the inspirational bandwagon without looking for the substance underneath the glitz.  It's not the older generations who decided to demonize the greatest living Democratic hero because Barack Obama didn't want to compete with his legacy.  If this is what the "youth" think is political acumen, maybe they need to be tutored by the elders.  It appears to me that because the youth have not been easily handed what they want, they place unfounded, irreparable smears on older people they perceive has the stumbling block to Barack's easy primary victory.  

    And Barack Obama should do his homework before he makes a great speech and misspeaks about people who are the bedrock of his own party.  It's because of that the man is in the trouble he's in.

    Obama On Florida Delegation: "We're Not In The Way" | 203 comments (203 topical)