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What If It Is Bayh Open Thread

Well, for one thing, it would explain burying it on a Friday/Saturday. Talk about a snorefest.

Here is some silly stuff to make you think it could be Bayh - First this site was redirecting to Obama home site until a few minutes ago. Then this.

I say it is Biden and that since Obama will not pick Hillary and Clark is under the bus, imo, then Biden is his next best choice POLITICALLY.

This is yet another Open Thread because Jeralyn went out to dinner and I am sedated now. You're on your own until Jeralyn or Chris come back. So behave.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

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    If it's Bayh.... (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Jjc2008 on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:34:04 PM EST
    there will be a collective
    ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    He was a good Hillary supporter but to me, his speaking abilities are about as DULL as Selebius....
    and I just don't see him as having the kind of personality that challenges anyone, let alone the "Obama is never wrong" campaign.

    If the VP pick is either Biden or (5.00 / 3) (#6)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:37:53 PM EST
    Bayh, won't all those young text-message recipients demand a refund?

    Parent
    If it's Bayh, at least we're safe .... (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by RonK Seattle on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:40:31 PM EST
    ... from getting bored to death by Biden. :)

    Parent
    We can be bored to death (none / 0) (#51)
    by RalphB on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:03:46 PM EST
    by Bayh instead.  Joe Biden?  Seriously, you gotta be f*cking kidding me.  D-MBNA?  hahaha :-)

    Parent
    Bayh = "sparring partner" (5.00 / 3) (#46)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:02:07 PM EST
    If it's Bayh, hide the dominoes from those two.

    Parent
    Hey wait a minute! (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by inclusiveheart on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:11:57 PM EST
    I've seen some tables almost broken in dominoes games when people slam those tiles down!  lol

    Parent
    What if it's Bayh? (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Daniel on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:11:52 PM EST
    Well, can you say President McCain? first of all, Obama said he wants someone who will get in his face and tell him things he doesn't want to  hear or agree with. That is definitely not Bayh.
    And it sure better not be Kaine. SNORE again. A newbie with less experience than Obama.
    The only reason I am skeptical about it being Biden is Obama said he would pick someone who didn't necessarily want to see his name inthe news :)

    Parent
    HNH - he's not Hillary (none / 0) (#119)
    by lmv on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:47:29 PM EST
    Am I the only one thinking Obama's ego came between the veep position and Hillary?

    If I were a super expecting a "unified convention" I'd be considering HRC on the first ballot.

    Parent

    My only problem with Biden (none / 0) (#187)
    by tlkextra on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 10:55:31 PM EST
    is that he is exactly all the things that the Obama Camp attacked Hillary for being (old politics, voted for war...) Also Biden made the same attacks towards Obama that Hillary was called being "divisive" for. All this reinforces my low opinion and distrust of the BO campaign. That is not to say I want Clinton to be chosen as VP. The way I figure it, if she's VP and he loses, it will be her fault - if someone else is VP and he loses, it will be her fault - if he wins, but his Presidency is a failure, no matter who the VP, IT'S HER FAULT. I would rather she stay separate from him, and maybe, just maybe, he will own up and take responsibility for his own shortcomings. If I could see him do that, my opinion would improve. Instead I see his first response to criticism is a lie, until Fox News uncovers the truth and then it's still the fault of someone else and they get thrown under the bus. How can the Democrats win this way?

    Parent
    Here's why they don't have time for the txt msg (none / 0) (#94)
    by Upstart Crow on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:27:45 PM EST
    FROM THE NATIONAL REVIEW

    Grass Roots for Barack   [Byron York]

    Hey! Guess what? I just got my email from Barack!

    But it wasn't about that. Instead, the Obama campaign wants to remind me that -- guess what -- John McCain doesn't know how many houses he owns. From campaign manager David Plouffe:

        If somebody asked you, you probably wouldn't have to think about it.

        But when a reporter asked John McCain how many houses he owns, he stumbled and said, "I think -- I'll have my staff get to you."

        If you're like the millions of people who are struggling to keep up with their mortgage, you might have a different perspective.

        Not only does John McCain have trouble keeping track of all his houses, he looks at record gas prices and a crippling foreclosure crisis and thinks the economy is fundamentally "strong." And last weekend he said anyone making less than $5 million a year isn't rich.

        This is the side of John McCain his campaign wants to hide.

        So yesterday, we launched a TV ad to show everyone how out-of-touch John McCain is with the economic realities of regular Americans.

        But if we're going to get the truth out, it's going to take all of us working together to make it happen.

        Watch the ad and write a letter to your local newspaper exposing the real John McCain:

    But what if I'm no good at writing letters to my local newspaper? Well, just click here:

        Our online tool will help you reach out to your local community and share your views with your friends and neighbors. To begin, just enter your zip code in the box above -- then click Participate. We'll provide you with talking points on how out-of-touch McCain is to help you write your letter and guide you through the process.

    And guess what? They're really helpful. Just look at these talking points:

        John McCain defines rich as making $5 million or more. By McCain's logic, you're middle class if you're making $3 million per year. Do you think that's middle class?

        John McCain thinks "the fundamentals of our economy are strong." For who? With the mortgage crisis taking people's houses and gas prices rising, just who is McCain talking about?

    Now, the campaign advises you to "use your own words" in writing these letters to the editor. But with such great talking points, don't you think some of them might show up in this latest expression of true grass-roots enthusiasm for Obama?

    Parent

    Have you seen McCain's response (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by RalphB on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:36:09 PM EST
    to the dumb house ad?   It rocks and, let me say, Obama shouldn't have drug real estate into the campaign.  Not with his own million dollar mansion bought with the help of convicted felon Rezko.  He really should have kept his mouth shut.

    Parent
    People in glass houses.... (none / 0) (#131)
    by massdem on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:53:58 PM EST
    And, now, Obama's ad has brought (none / 0) (#151)
    by zfran on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 07:20:19 PM EST
    Cindy into the campaign. I guess that opens the door to Michelle, eh?

    Parent
    How many houses (none / 0) (#180)
    by SueBonnetSue on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 10:24:20 PM EST
    Does John Kerry have?  How about Ted Kennedy?  How big is John Edward's house?  Did Obama really want to go down that road?  

    BTW, Doesn't Joe Biden own 4 houses?  Wilmington DE, Washington DC, the beach in Delaware and somewhere in Maine?  

    What an idiotic issue.  A rich guy attacking another rich guy.  Who does Obama think that will impress?!  

    Parent

    Once again, it's the Obama (none / 0) (#188)
    by tlkextra on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 11:22:16 PM EST
    double standard - he twists and misrepresents what another candidate says, then, when he's caught at something, he pulls out the standard deflection tactic of "the public doesn't want to hear about this silly stuff, there are more important issues..." If you listen to the limited audio, you hear the question and McCain says something like - "There's...I'll get my Staff back to you...I'm trying to tell you about (listen closely for that)...I'll have my Staff talk to you." Now if I could find what occurred prior and immediately afterwards, I suspect I could find out what McCain was trying to discuss prior to this irrelevant question. Also, Obama is ridiculing the "5 million" comments as well. Anyone who watched the Forum, knows that was a joke. This opens Obama up for a rehashing of the "57 States" comment among others.  Truthfully, this is one area where I agree with Obama - I don't want to hear about all the misstatements and see the old political games played. I want to hear about concrete relevant issues that affect the Presidency.

    Parent
    All wrong (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by chopper on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 09:50:31 PM EST
    If McCain "obtained" his houses like Obama did with a Chicago crook like Rezko and an Iraqi criminal like Auchi then I would say this guy is involved in dirty deals.  

    But McCain didn't do that, Obama did.

    Obama would be smart to keep his mouth shut about houses.

    Parent

    Uggggg. (none / 0) (#100)
    by Grace on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:32:47 PM EST
    That's like text propaganda.  I wouldn't vote for a candidate who abuses my time like that.  Seriously.  It's like companies that fax you ads, wasting your paper and ink.  

    Parent
    I have no sympathy... (5.00 / 3) (#109)
    by massdem on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:40:35 PM EST
    Anybody who would give a political campaign their unlisted cell # to receive a text message when the info (if not leaked before) will be available on TV or CNN approximately 3 seconds later, deserves what they get.
    I hope they enjoy the texts and calls requesting money from Obama over the next 2 months!
     My apologies if I offended anyone here who already signed up!

    Parent
    Is That Really A Text Message? (none / 0) (#118)
    by JimWash08 on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:47:15 PM EST
    Or an e-mail?

    Isn't there like a 500-character limit for phone text messages?

    That makes me even more happy I didn't give in and submit my phone number. I'd hate to wade through all that propaganda.

    And my plan doesn't have free incoming text messages so I'd be the one paying to do Obama's dirty work for him.

    Aah, no wonder he voted for FISA then. It all seems to be coming full-circle.

    Parent

    I thought you bailed. (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by inclusiveheart on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:37:14 PM EST
    They've got you hooked haven't they?

    Annoying isn't it?  lol

    Can you imagine a sedated BTD? (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by Teresa on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:39:15 PM EST
    Though, I do remember those late late night diaries he used to post on Daily Kos. Those were fun.

    Parent
    They were. (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by inclusiveheart on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:41:15 PM EST
    I enjoyed them.

    Parent
    I'm thinking it's sedation (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:10:28 PM EST
    on the rocks.  The dramatics of this non-drama would drive anyone to drink.  Seeing the same "Awaiting" headline on CNN for hours and days now is making me feel like I haven't made any progress, either.

    Anyway, BTD, if you sedated with something in a glass, come on back -- this could be even more fun!  And you were pretty funny at times today, already.

    Parent

    For chrissakes. (none / 0) (#73)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:14:39 PM EST
    It's Hillary (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by talesoftwokitties on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:41:27 PM EST
    I don't need no stinkin' logic.  I feel it in my bitter old bones.

    Your theory is the only one (none / 0) (#61)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:09:22 PM EST
    that makes sense to delay the announcement so long w/so many teasers.  Someone in the Obama camp sd. a couple of weeks ago it could be someone from out of left field!

    Parent
    left field? (none / 0) (#108)
    by weltec2 on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:39:23 PM EST
    No, I think it's far more likely to be someone from right field given Obama's economic policy team. Bayh would fit in nicely given his voting record on deregulation of pharmaceuticals and health care insurance companies. Read here on Evan's wife Susan Bayh.

    This site has been recently altered eliminating the list of corporate boards she has served on. Also, the section titled Controversy has been completely removed. That section explained that since Bayh was elected he has consistently voted in favor of deregulation of pharmaceutical and insurance companies. Also, according to that now missing section, he is currently under investigation for being in the pocket of these industries.

    Parent

    I didn't know (none / 0) (#116)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:45:13 PM EST
    that. Honestly, with all that going on why not just elect another Bush clone or Republican? If all we're going to do is propagate more corporate welfare then what really is the point of voting for anybody?

    Thanks for the information.

    Parent

    I think (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by JThomas on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:43:46 PM EST
    Obama has done ok politically so far. Of course the big test is in November.

    If it is bayh..he better be able to lock down Indiana for the democrats.

    The democratic party is in a fighting mood and that screams Joe Biden, the fighter of the party.

    Biden is not the one I think of (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by americanincanada on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 07:48:29 PM EST
    when I think of a dem fighter this election cycle.

    Parent
    Perhaps Jane can convince you (5.00 / 4) (#20)
    by blogtopus on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:45:49 PM EST
    to support Obama even if it is Biden?

    This is going to be a soul-searching time for a lot of fence-sitters (or even tepid supporters of Obama). Questions:

    1. Do I not vote and allow a Republican to take the seat at a time when we can't afford to?

    2. Do I vote for Obama and thus condone the actions he has taken to get to where he is?

    3. Do I vote for McCain, a Republican, something I never thought I would do? How would I reveal this to my friends / family, especially if he ends up doing more damage than we expect?

    4. What is more valuable? Knowing I made the right choice for my country, or knowing I made the right choice for myself? (please note, this can be applied to BOTH candidates)

    5. What is the damage that McCain can (and likely will) do, versus the damage that Obama can possibly do, based on his past moves / decisions and his personality?

    This really is a disgusting outcome for what could have been a turning point for America. Sad sad sad.

    My theory is that if you live in (5.00 / 6) (#34)
    by Anne on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:54:50 PM EST
    a state that is either solid red or solid blue, it will be easier to act on your conscience.

    If you cannot draw the line on the candidate or the party, you're just giving permission for a succession of mediocre candidates to follow these two, and for the party to continue to disrespect and ignore you.

    It goes hand-in-hand with what we have seen from our elected representatives.  With each more egregious action by this administration, we've expected that "this will be the time" when a line is drawn and consequences ensue.  And then nothing happens.  And each time it's ignored, it means the next thing is worse.  And here we are.

    I live in MD, I will be working the polls as an assistant chief judge in my precinct, and I will not be voting the presidential ballot.  Just cannot do it; there's gotta be a line.

    Parent

    My line got crossed (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by RalphB on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:13:30 PM EST
    like the Rubicon at the RBC meeting.  That shouldn't be allowed to stand.  Those people running the DNC need to be thrown out so we can get on with be Democrats for a change.  I might even join the party again if that happened.

    I live in a solid red state but will be voting for McCain, as the lesser of two evils.


    Parent

    Mine too (none / 0) (#130)
    by lmv on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:53:48 PM EST
    The worst thing about that debacle (other than derailing HRC, the best candidate) is that FL is lost.  It's been solidly for McCain since that meeting.  

    MI is a possibility, too, since Granholm is unpopular.  

    All winter I had been wondering how the Dems would snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

    RBC

    Parent

    Why not vote (none / 0) (#158)
    by CDN Ctzn on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 07:40:23 PM EST
    for a Third Party or an Independent candidate? At least it sends a message that some of us will not remain silent and complacent while the Corporate Candidates are marched out as our only choices!

    If we're ever to have a serious choice for President it has to begin somewhere, sometime. Maybe this is the time!

    Parent

    I'm in a swing state (VA) (none / 0) (#146)
    by DandyTIger on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 07:07:30 PM EST
    and I've said all along that Obama could win my vote. But I won't vote for someone just because there's a D by the name. I won't close the door though. But for some reason Obama seems to have bricked me in so I can't even open the door. Guess I'll take the hint.

    Parent
    My question is, (5.00 / 7) (#57)
    by eleanora on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:07:02 PM EST
    how do I forcefully tell the DNC and Democratic leaders that I'm disgusted with their behavior during this primary season? And that they'd better never let it happen again?

    I'm unhappy with Obama's choices during the campaign, but he's just a candidate. It's his job to leverage every opportunity his conscience can live with to win the nomination. But my grinding problem is with Dean, Pelosi, Brazile, Kennedy, Kerry, et al. Normally I'd vote for an arugula salad if it had a D after its name, but we cannot have the refs blatantly and unashamedly ignoring the voters and throwing the game to one side.

    Worse still, they've supported and reinforced Obama's nonpartisan crap during the best year Democrats ever had to convince the American people that we're about competently running government for the common good. Why be a Democrat if there's no difference? Add that to my sudden, stunning realization that the "progressives" apparently have no interest in standing up for women's rights and are delighted to support misogyny, and I'm getting scared that whatever choice I make with my vote will be a bad one.

    Parent

    Well, my first step was to change my (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by Valhalla on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:10:18 PM EST
    registration and send Howard Dean a copy.

    Followed by sending many emails and few letters detailing my disgust.  Then as most know, I joined PUMA.

    My final step will be notObama voting in November.

    Parent

    I registered as "decline to state" (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by Radiowalla on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:36:29 PM EST
    and sent a letter to Howard Dean informing him of my decision.

    I have not had a reply.  I don't suppose you have either.

    As for my vote in November, I'm waiting to see what happens, who is the VP choice and how my state in trending.  I will not vote for McCain under any circumstances.    

    If I do end up voting for the Democratic nominee, it will be the most grudging, most dyspeptic vote of my life.

    Parent

    Are you in a safe state? (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by Xanthe on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:44:39 PM EST
    You could vote green.  I'm in Illinois - so that's what I'm doing.

    Parent
    No, I can't vote Green (none / 0) (#137)
    by Radiowalla on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 07:00:12 PM EST
    Cynthia McKinney is the nominee and I have major problems with her.

    If I don't vote for the Dem, I'll write in Hillary.  But, as I said, what I do will depend on a lot of factors.   I'm in California and that's normally about as safe as it gets.  This is not a normal year, however.  

    Parent

    Aren't you (none / 0) (#74)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:14:40 PM EST
    in MA? What do you think Romney on a McCain ticket would do there? Since NH is close, I think Obama could lose there.

    Parent
    Yes, I'm in Mass. (none / 0) (#88)
    by Valhalla on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:23:27 PM EST
    Romney wasn't particularly popular here, and few were sorry to see him go, so I don't see that as a big plus.  Weld was much more the kind of Republican that's liked in Democrat-rich MA - socially very moderate, fiscally conservative.  And although the Mass. polls have been dropping for Obama, they are still safely above 10.  I think really, the only thing that might win MA for McCain would be to put Clinton on his ticket.

    NH is iffier -- over the past few years, lots of Boston-area lattes have moved up there (Boston being one of the most expensive cities for housing costs in the country), giving it a pretty liberal voting block in the SE part of the state.  But the rest of the state is fairly conservative in an individualistic sort of way.

    Not sure Romney helps with that except on the economy angle.  New Hampshirites (?) are very no-taxes, no big spending sorts of folks.  And I know I saw a poll recently showing NH getting very tight.  I think Pawlenty, who comes without the Mormon baggage, might help.

    Parent

    Interesting. (none / 0) (#97)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:30:09 PM EST
    Obama seems to be making a play for states where he's losing and McCain would be making a play for states where the polling shows it is close.

    I didn't know if there was any sort of backlash about Deval Patrick that would hurt Obama. IMO, Patrick is a very good reason to vote against Obama. I understand he has been an abject failure and will probably have a primary opponent.

    Parent

    I was just reading about what FDR did (5.00 / 7) (#70)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:13:14 PM EST
    when he was getting pushback from the Repubs about the New Deal.

    He went left, he ran on a Second New Deal agenda, and he won his second team bigger than before.

    I would like to assign a reading list to Dean, Pelosi, et al.

    Parent

    FDR (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by christinep on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:19:56 PM EST
    Thank you for the FDR reminder. (Sounds like something my dad would have said years ago.  Oh, thats a high compliment.)

    Parent
    Awwww. (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:44:59 PM EST
    Wish my dad -- and mom -- were here to talk about this year.  They were Depression babies who thought that Saints Franklin and Eleanor ought to have been canonized.

    Btw, my dad liked Truman even more.  And my dad was one of those Depression babies who had to give up dreams to get out of college and get to work to help the younger sibs, but he was one of the best self-taught historians ever.  He got me started on reading history -- and he had me reading every bio of FDR, ER, and Harry S that was.  So I make sure to keep reading anything new that comes out about them, so that I can still have those talks in my head with him.

    Fathers, show your daughters that you respect their minds -- misogynist as my dad was in so many other ways.  But he always treated all of us as capable of contributing worthy opinions, if we had read up enough to keep up.  The rest will follow.  

    Parent

    Nice post, Cream - (none / 0) (#127)
    by Xanthe on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:52:47 PM EST
    my dad had to leave high school to help the family as well.  He was as smart mathmatically as any man I knew.  Worked in a factory - but the engineers there often consulted with him and got his opinion on what was happening and how things could improve.  What mensches!  And he never whined - never.   At his wake, one of the engineers told us he had a really good mechanical mind.  

    A common story during that time I'm sure.  

    Parent

    Reminds me that at my dad's wake (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 08:22:33 PM EST
    we first found out from his sibs so much of what my dad never said about his childhood -- that he had none after his mother died.  He was the oldest, at 10, with five younger ones.  She died, of course, in childbirth in those days.  And my dad's dad was devastated and in a deep depression for years -- and spent every waking moment working to try to keep the family together, although everyone told him to break up the kids and put them in orphanages.

    So the uncles and aunts told stories after stories about how my dad really was both father and mother to them all.  Went out to work young so that he could buy his younger sisters their prom dresses and such.  So many stories like that -- and never a word did my dad say about it.  All we knew is that he missed his mother every day of his life.

    And he did all that, got them through school -- some through college and a couple of advanced degrees -- and had delayed marriage to do so (although his dad remarried, and that was another heartbreak, as mine really did not like his stepmother -- and was correct about her).  So just then, my dad got called up to go off to war for four years.  He finally started his life in the late '40s.  It was the greatest generation.

    Parent

    which reminds me! (none / 0) (#140)
    by ccpup on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 07:01:48 PM EST
    you mentioned you had read a fantastic bio on Eleanor Roosevelt a while back, but, as it wasn't an Open Thread, I could never get the title or author.

    Any chance I can get it now?  She's someone I'd love to learn more about, but there seem to be SOOOOOOOO many books out, one doesn't know where to begin!

    Thanks.  :-)

    Parent

    Blanche Wiesen Cook (none / 0) (#165)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 08:14:31 PM EST
    has a multivolume bio of ER that is considered the definitive one.  Takes a little less than a lifetime to try to read all about ER's amazing life.

    So an earlier bio that I like is Joseph Lash's Franklin and Eleanor -- but frankly, it is more about Eleanor.  Lash was a young protege of hers and clearly adored her, but still does a good job in being objective about her at many points.

    I fell in love with ER after reading Lash's book first.  All I remembered of ER, from my young years, was this funny-looking old lady with the fluty voice (for those of you who are a little younger, ER and Julia Child had the same voice:-).

    Parent

    thank you SO much! (none / 0) (#171)
    by ccpup on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 09:18:09 PM EST
    I'll look for it next week and tuck into it during the next month.

    :-)

    Parent

    See you back here in an open thread (none / 0) (#190)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 11:26:29 PM EST
    again after you've gotten into it.

    Also, the ER archives online (just google, I think) were wonderful to wander through a while ago. . . .

    Parent

    I hear you and I think that all this PUMA nonsense (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by SarahSpin on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:15:39 PM EST
    is being ratcheted up so that they have a defense when they don't pick Hillary (though I hope they do).

    It seems to me that the concerted effort on the blogs to villanize Hillary was cranked up again last week.  I think this is being done on purpose to put Hillary and her supporters in a bad light so that the Obama camp can justify not choosing her.  Anyone who thinks Obama is not a calculating politician is full of baloney.

    Geesh, even Rachel Maddow has fallen for it.  She was talking PUMA for a good half hour.  

    And if I hear "fair and square" one more time.....

    Parent

    Oooh, Rachel Maddow (5.00 / 0) (#126)
    by Pol C on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:52:28 PM EST
    Slowly I turned, inch by inch...

    The first thing to remember about Rachel Maddow that you have to remember is that she regards John McCain as the Anti-Christ. That makes anything she says about him justified in her view, no matter how unfair or off the wall. The second thing you have to remember is that she hates the Clintons, although she goes out of her way not to cop to it in public. I don't think she's under any great illusions about Obama--I haven't seen signs of Kool-Aid drinking from her since February--but she wants the Clintons and McCain done and gone for good.


    Parent

    Rachel should be worried., (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by chel2551 on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 07:05:34 PM EST
    Many men and women are not PUMAs.

    They just don't think Obama is the one.

    Oh my.

    Get used to it.

    Parent

    personally i think rachel needs to (none / 0) (#154)
    by hellothere on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 07:28:47 PM EST
    worry about her job. being a one trick pony doesn't say job security. she had so many creds, what happened?

    Parent
    C'mere - (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by Xanthe on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:23:39 PM EST
    I want to give you a hug.  I don't have the energy to say what you said...but - yeah, what you said.

    Parent
    Thanks so much. (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by eleanora on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 10:34:11 PM EST
    I had to go cry for awhile after writing that, stupid angry tears. I keep hoping something will change so we can all believe again, but it just seems to get worse by the day. I hang onto the idea that Hillary, Bill, and so many other good Dems are still in there fighting, no matter what. We'll figure out how best to help somehow. {{{{hugs you back}}}}

    Parent
    That's how I feel too (5.00 / 4) (#93)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:26:39 PM EST
    I feel guilty if I don't vote for Obama because McCain is horribly dangerous for the whole world in many ways.

    I feel guilty if I do vote for Obama because I'm abandoning so many of my principles and going along with some really nasty tactics. Plus I feel that I'd be abandoning the sisterhood.

    Rock and a hard place.

    Parent

    Simple solution (none / 0) (#160)
    by Lou Grinzo on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 07:41:33 PM EST
    My simple solution to that dilemma: Ignore everything but what's best for the country.  Vote for the person who [1] has a legitimate chance of winning, and [2] will be best for the country.  Everything else falls into place after that.

    Parent
    I think you conclusion (none / 0) (#163)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 07:55:07 PM EST
    has been empirically refuted many times unfortunately. Many of my concerns will not fall into place if Obama is elected.

    Parent
    amen (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by Klio on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 08:21:30 PM EST
    I couldn't say it better; your comment perfectly captures the dreadful dilemma I find myself in.  What misery!

    Parent
    Hillary or McCain (none / 0) (#174)
    by chopper on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 09:58:07 PM EST
    If Obama doesn't have the smarts to go with the one who beat him and won the People's Votes, then he doesn't have the smarts to be prez.

    Some states don't recognize a write-in vote. I don't want to waste my vote.  I'm serious, if it's not Hillary I'm voting for McCain.

    HILLARY CLINTON 2012

    Parent

    How about (none / 0) (#29)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:51:12 PM EST
    "none of the above" and leaving the Presidential ballot blank?

    As far as damage to the country I really don't know. History tells me it's Obama who would do more damage simply because he's inexperienced. Now, I know that experience doesn't guarantee a good presidency but inexperience guarantees a bad one. I've seen it two times in my life: Carter and Bush II both inexperienced and disasters simply because they weren't up to the demands of the times.

    Parent

    Do you think McCain and (none / 0) (#99)
    by Xanthe on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:32:15 PM EST
    a high majority Dem Senate would make a difference?  Or would that senate once again get low ratings?

    Parent
    McCain will force them to work. (none / 0) (#110)
    by Grace on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:40:55 PM EST
    One thing I like about McCain and a Dem Senate:  He was once one of them, a senator, and he managed to get some bipartisan legislation passed so he knows how to work with them.  


    Parent
    I don't know (none / 0) (#123)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:48:55 PM EST
    It's hard to predict how these things will work out in the end. McCain does have a history of working with Dems. He might be a lot more amenable than Obama who seems to "expect" things will be done his way.

    Living in a red state where Obama is getting killed by McCain in the polls really makes not voting easy.

    Parent

    Obama has a clear choice (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by koshembos on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:47:29 PM EST
    He select weak VPs that don't matter like Biden or Bayh (the B's) and he select strong VPs that will do a lot of work for him and have stature like Clinton or Clark (The C's).

    My guess B-.

    Carville (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:47:40 PM EST
    and Begala pretty much said it all this afternoon:
    We are going to have a long death march until Nov. Obama has blown the election with his VP choice and there will now not be any unity. He's given numerous reasons for that 1/2 of Hillary voters to bolt the party to McCain or stay home.

    I'm so sick of losing but it seems that's what they party does best.

    According to Huff Post headline, (none / 0) (#28)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:51:00 PM EST
    McCain says his VP choice's position on right to life will be important, as will the position of Obama's VP on this issue.  I think Obama will be helped immensely if he chooses a proponent of a woman's right to choose and McCain does the opposite.  

    Parent
    First (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:54:52 PM EST
    of all the SCOTUS argument has NO salience anymore. There's already the votes to overturn Roe v. Wade. All it's going to take is a good challenge. Besides, there are lots of voters who value experience, character and foreign policy experience over the abortion issue.

    HuffPo is a joke.

    Parent

    Why didn't HuffPo care about (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Grace on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:46:33 PM EST
    SCOTUS before she voted for George Bush?  He was the one who got the last two conservative judges in.  If this was such a big issue to her, she should have been supporting Gore.  

    There's a reason why HuffPo didn't exist in 2000...

    Parent

    True. (none / 0) (#125)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:51:51 PM EST
    I think Arianna switched parties before 2000 though. I'm not sure.

    My point is that if they were so concerned about SCOTUS then why did they pick such a weak candidate as Obama? Obviously, SCOTUS is not a big concern to them and they are willing to risk the court. It's the point I always keep coming back to.

    Parent

    Arianna (none / 0) (#162)
    by Gabriele Droz on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 07:53:39 PM EST
    is a former Republican who switched parties after her divorce from her husband Michael Huffinton, a Republican congressman who, after running for Senate in 1998, lost, and after that run, announced that he was gay - which ended up in their divorce).  They have two wonderful daughters.

    After that, (and this is my own opinion), I think Arianna went back to lining re-aligning herself with her (now deceased) mother, Elli  Stassinopoulos, a truly dynamic and wonderful free-spirited Greek woman.  

    I remember her at one of the girls' birthday parties, leading all the conservative guests to pick up the ribbons of the Mayday pole, and dance around it - her first, in a Greek-like ancient dress.

    Whenever I was at there, Elli was not allow me to leave without a huge basked full of food for my whole family - prepared by herself.

    I remember her at one of the girls' birthday parties, leading all the conservative guests to pick up the ribbons of the Mayday pole, and dance around it - her first, in a Greek-like ancient dress.

    One cannot change ones roots on a dime, and although Arianna has written "Pigs on the Trough", describing Republicans, I think that after feeling betrayed by her husband, her positions changed.  But, like Markos, it's not that easy to turn on a dime.

    Those are strictly my impressions.

    Parent

    Damn I accidentally hit the "post"button (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by Gabriele Droz on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 08:05:58 PM EST
    before I was finished with it.  Please re-read.
    ------------------------

    Arianna is a former Republican who switched parties after her divorce from her husband Michael Huffinton, a Republican congressman who, after running for Senate in 1998, lost, and afterwards, announced that he was gay - which led to their divorce.  

    They have two wonderful daughters.

    After that divorce, I think Arianna went back to re-aligning herself with her now deceased mother, Elli  Stassinopoulos, a truly dynamic and wonderful free-spirited Greek woman.  

    I remember Elli at one of their girls' birthday parties, leading all the conservative guests to pick up the ribbons of the Mayday pole, and dance around it - her being first, in a Greek-like ancient dress.

    Whenever I was at there, Elli did not allow me to leave without a huge basket full of food for me, my husband and our two sons - cooked by herself.

    One cannot change ones roots on a dime, and although Arianna has written "Pigs at the Trough", I believe that her political changes initially were motivated by feeling betrayed, while, at the same time, like with Markos, another former Republican, it's not easy to change one's mindset overnight.  

    Those are strictly my impressions.


    Parent

    Wow (5.00 / 2) (#168)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 08:28:45 PM EST
    so you know Arianna personally? What is the deal with the Hillary hate? Is it just so inbred from being a Republican in the 90's that she just can't let go?

    Parent
    I think it's a left-over (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by Gabriele Droz on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 10:10:36 PM EST
    from her former days as a Republican.  As I tried to explain in my prior post.  And I think the same goes for Markos.

    Parent
    though i have been disappointed (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by hellothere on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 09:15:16 PM EST
    huff post in recent days, i do remember sending arianna an email regarding one of her books or some speech she gave. dang time does go by fast. anyway i received a very gracious reply and was duly impressed.

    Parent
    Yes, she actually is (5.00 / 2) (#176)
    by Gabriele Droz on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 10:12:22 PM EST
    a human being, with best intentions.  It's all about where we came from, what we've been through, and all the stuff in between.

    Parent
    McCain (none / 0) (#38)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:57:36 PM EST
    is supposed to be picking Romney who's stance on that issue is nebulous. During the primaries Romney was "pro life" while during his tenure as Gov. he was "pro choice". Romney can blur the issue enough to take lots of votes from Obama on that issue.

    Parent
    Seems I forgot: DFARv.W (none / 0) (#89)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:23:36 PM EST
    His choice of Biden shows me that he's immature (none / 0) (#191)
    by suzieg on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:24:13 AM EST
    and not ready for the presidenty.  He knows that Hillary will upstage him and his ego is too fragile at the possibility. The man just proved to me that he's a weakling!

    Parent
    If it's Bayh then uh, I'm right and you're not... (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:59:15 PM EST
    If it's Bayh then uh, some netroots bloggers heads are gonna splode.....

    If it's Bayh then uh, no need for finding body doubles cuz he's already a clone :)  We'll just make more

    Splode? (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Edger on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:28:43 PM EST
    I don't know about that. Maybe they'll just find ways to convince themselves to also forget about his having co-chaired with John McCain and Joseph Lieberman the neocon Committee for the Liberation of Iraq.

    It can't be much of a negative, since Bayh can't recall it, can it? And it wouldn't reflect at all on Obama's foreign policy thinking, of course.

    Bayh'll just be one more and better democrat... ahem.

    Parent

    Biden (5.00 / 8) (#44)
    by lentinel on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:00:16 PM EST
    Obama is sure Biden his time...

    Sorry...

    Punny (5.00 / 7) (#48)
    by onthefence on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:03:12 PM EST
    Bayh the time he announces his VP, we will all be Nunn to interested.  

    Parent
    thanks for the laugh you 2 (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:05:27 PM EST
    just what I need as I go off into baseball and cooking land :)

    Parent
    Well, (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by lentinel on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:16:59 PM EST
    G'Bayh.

    Parent
    Bayh, Biden, etc. doesn't matter... (none / 0) (#179)
    by chopper on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 10:23:01 PM EST
    They are all second-rate next to Hillary.

    Why do you thing Biden had to drop out of the primary so soon?

    Hillary is the complete package, ready to go on day one.

    Obama needs her.  If he's too stupid or egotistical to see it, oh well, he loses.

    I'm not worried about McCain one bit.  He's bi-partisan and he will have a Democratic Congress controlling him.

    Parent

    What I like about McCain is that he'll try to (none / 0) (#192)
    by suzieg on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:27:37 AM EST
    clean out special interest money from the process - he's the only one that has fought along with Feingold, for years, to get money out of politics. If nothing else, that's admirable!

    Parent
    Welp, Obama blew it (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:03:14 PM EST
    it's baseball time on the east coast and in an hour, the Olympics. I'm guessing it will be a wake up message.

    Go Yankees!!

    I am not a morning person. I guess I'll be (none / 0) (#52)
    by Teresa on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:05:09 PM EST
    asleep when it finally gets announced.

    Parent
    I have to be up tomorrow (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:08:49 PM EST
    farm share pick up and it's fruit day for me also :)

    My farm share rates MUCH higher than any VP pick Obama could make since my 2 choices are under the bus with me :)

    Parent

    I'll be put to sleep (none / 0) (#75)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:15:00 PM EST
    by the announcement, I fear.  Ah, Saturday naps are so nice.

    Parent
    How funny is it (none / 0) (#150)
    by aquarian on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 07:18:43 PM EST
    if people who signed up to get texted were woken up in the middle of the night so Obama could make sure they were notified first?  Be careful what you sign up for.....

    Parent
    Me too, but my girlfriend from Fla (none / 0) (#152)
    by BarnBabe on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 07:24:46 PM EST
    will call and wake me up. She and her husband switched to Obama during SC. She was complaining last night that Hillary has not been out there helping Obama much. I said she has been back in the Senate doing her job and took a week out of her vacation time to campaign for him. About time she says. We stay away from politics most of the time. But she will call me at 6AM if she knows. It is Saturday. I don't get up until 9:30.  

    Parent
    Graphics (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by thentro on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:06:38 PM EST
    The bumper sticker might be real, but it would be a major departure from a graphic theme that Obama has been using for a long time. It looks stuck together and cheap if you ask me, like a nock off.

    So I don't put much faith it.

    Compare:
    http://jaredran.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/100_0194.jpg

    vs
    http://thepage.time.com/2008/08/22/newsrooms-on-fire/

    Agreed. (none / 0) (#59)
    by gmo on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:08:48 PM EST
    That might be what I was reacting to in my post -- something about that bumper sticker just looks wrong.  I doubt they'd produce something that looks quite so heinous.

    Parent
    OK (none / 0) (#133)
    by massdem on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:57:51 PM EST
    I'm not much of a sports fan, but don't they start printing both teams shirts until they know who won?  Perhaps there are other places making up other fake stickers?

    Parent
    It looks like DNC Collateral (none / 0) (#138)
    by lambert on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 07:01:23 PM EST
    See here.

    Parent
    If Obama (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:12:55 PM EST
    picks Bayh then I think John McCain can safely give up the ambien. He can watch Obama's VP every time he needs some sleep.

    I don't think this will really happen, (none / 0) (#135)
    by massdem on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:59:18 PM EST
    but imagine if McCain picked Leiberman - can you imagine how hard it would be to watch the VP debate?  Cure for insomnia found!

    Parent
    Obama might be into (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by lilburro on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:31:33 PM EST
    "new" politics, but I'm sort of offput by his campaign team's willingness to play into inane politics.  Right now they seem to be exactly on the level of our ridiculous political news media.  

    This game is undermining his gravitas.  He is going to have to have an amazing September.  

    It's like out of a dumb movie or TV show. (none / 0) (#103)
    by Teresa on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:35:01 PM EST
    They've carried this way too far. Everything about his campaign has to be a spectacle.

    Parent
    I'm preparing myself.... (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by christinep on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:35:22 PM EST
    I'd love to see Hillary recognized by being offered the position of, at a minimum, an official consultation role pre-announcement. She truly is the winner. Not just the one; she is really the only one who we KNOW can win. But, I'm trying to accustom myself to the next week. I live in Denver (have for many years.) Because of my involvement with the party, I'll be at the Pepsi Center on Tuesday evening and at Invesco on Thursday. Still, it is challenging to really suck it up and enjoy the week. (I must say that I am really looking forward to Tuesday--for the evening and for the afternoon Emily's List reception.) Ah well, speaking of sedation in a glass. The wine tastes good. I'll share an irony: During my collegiate days in Indiana, I did a bit of work for then-Senator Birch Bayh; and, subsequently, my first boss in Colorado used to babysit Evan Bayh when his father was in law school at IU. Life surely takes some fascinating turns. Cheers!

    Well, if it is in fact Bayh (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by massdem on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:48:52 PM EST
    that he chose, he has to keep us semi-comatose now so that it won't seem so boring by comparison when he announces his choice.

    so the announcement is Sat then? (5.00 / 0) (#129)
    by Little Fish on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:53:38 PM EST
    Tomorrow morning I'll have the options of laying by the pool or going to the beach or waiting around for Obama's veep pick.

    HMMMM tough choice.

    Color me overplayed.

    okay i get it (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by scourtney on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:57:00 PM EST
    he's waiting to dump the VP story till right before the convention because if he had done this on Wed., we would have seen the complete lack of bounce in the polls... then the commentary would have started: "Why didn't he pick Hillary?!" so they introduce the bozo right before the convention, then whatever bounce gets mixed in from that, and the media has less time to focus on what a huge Dump Obama has taken on Hillary and her supporters and our chances to win this election.

    little fish, i say, (5.00 / 0) (#136)
    by cpinva on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:59:37 PM EST
    go for the beach! never a bad choice. lol

    biden is a good pick politically? really, why's that? is it because he's such a hot up and comer? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, nope, i don't think so. is it because he's historically had daring policy positions? hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, nope, that isn't it either. perhaps the haircut?

    ok, i'll bite, what makes biden such a good pick, politically or otherwise? i ask as one who thinks it doesn't matter who the heck obama picks for vp, it still leaves him being obama, and that isn't a good position to be in.

    Joe Biden? Evan Bayh? (5.00 / 0) (#142)
    by Left of center on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 07:03:39 PM EST
    What's going on? Dukakis isn't answering the phone?

    If not for Bill (2.50 / 4) (#76)
    by Daniel on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:15:27 PM EST
    Although I learned to lower my opinion of her during the primaries as clearly someone who would do ANYTHING to win and who felt entitled to the nomination, if not for that pesky little problem called BILL CLINTON, I would now want to see Obama pick Hillary as the strongest candidate to be VP. But with Bill in the white house again, Obama can't afford to look over his shoulder at TWO Clintons. IT's likely going to be Biden, and Bayh will never see the light of day in national politics. He's boring as hell

    Might this mean you received (5.00 / 5) (#82)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:18:06 PM EST
    both the text message announcement and subsequent talking points?

    Parent
    That would be awful! (5.00 / 6) (#83)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:19:14 PM EST
    I cannot imagine the sheer misery of being President, and being able to go down the hall and ask Bill Clinton what he thinks about an issue.  Surely no human being would voluntarily endure such torture.

    Parent
    We should demand higher quality (none / 0) (#111)
    by RalphB on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:41:03 PM EST
    Obama supporters, if they're going to post here anyway.  These old talking points are ludicrous. :-)

    Parent
    Yeah, I want high information (5.00 / 0) (#113)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:43:12 PM EST
    Obama supporters!

    Parent
    Nice. Obviously she didn't do anything to win. (5.00 / 3) (#86)
    by Teresa on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:20:29 PM EST
    If nothing else, the memos showed that. She didn't leak the Wright story etc. And that pesky Bill Clinton was a better president than Obama ever dreamed of being. And he will only be president in his dreams if he doesn't wake up fast.

    Parent
    You "learned"? (5.00 / 3) (#90)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:23:36 PM EST
    More like you dutifully received and repeated the talking points.

    Parent
    Not out to dinner yet (none / 0) (#1)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:33:56 PM EST
    I'll be leaving in a few hours to have dinner with Jane from Firedoglake who just got into town.

    Jeralyn, have you seen the PBS (none / 0) (#3)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:36:35 PM EST
    documentary on Annie Liebowitz?  A very young Hunter Thompson is in it.  Really interesting film, BTW.  

    Parent
    Oh, good, you're here. Jeralyn -- (none / 0) (#81)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:17:49 PM EST
    you solved the camera for the convention.  Have you made progress on backpack, sensible shoes, etc.?

    C'mon, let's do Project Runway Rundown to the Convention.  Obama is giving us nothing else to talk about.  So whaddya gonna wear?  Reviving any great vintage jackets from past campaign years?  (Loved that vintage jacket you shared with us a while ago.)

    Parent

    I stand by my (none / 0) (#4)
    by Andy08 on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:37:06 PM EST
    bet from days ago: It is Evan Bayh.

    Stated the reaosns yesterday in anotehr comment.

    He would be a good POTUS if needed and it's the closest to HRC among all the others --that atre not HRC--

    Heard he is the one GOP "fears" the most (modulo HRC).

    better him than Biden (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by bjorn on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:39:57 PM EST
    but I will go through another down phase since it is not going to be Clinton.  I know we have known that since Obama won, but this will finally make it official.

    Parent
    What Evan Bayh brings (none / 0) (#26)
    by christinep on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:50:33 PM EST
    I need a reminder about the number of Indiana electoral votes. Methinks that it is no less than Colorado and New Mexico combined. Senator Bayh (and the legacy of his whole family) is respected, popular in Indiana. As a former governor and second-term senator, he brings the experience that Kaine is not perceived to have. As someone not as familiar and prone to misspeak as Biden, he is a "new" face for most of the national electorate. (While I recognize that father and son are not the same, nevertheless, Bayh the father strongly supported unions/working people and introduced the ERA in the Senate. My faulty memory seems to recall that Birch Bayh also was an early sponsor of changing the voting age to the present 18 yrs.) Senator Evan Bayh is a competent debater, not known for making mistakes. Finally: Think about the numbers if the Democrats actually win Indiana.  Then, you may only need Virginia or Colorado. (Again, excuse me for not doing the deep number delve--but, the strategy would be obvious.)

    Parent
    Evan Bayh (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:15:32 PM EST
    is not nearly as liberal as his father.

    Parent
    yeah (none / 0) (#43)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:00:04 PM EST
    but that only works if you hold the Kerry states which Obama is having problems with. And if McCain picks Romney he could pick up NH and possibly another NE state.

    Parent
    Bayh makes it a solid DLC ticket (none / 0) (#45)
    by RonK Seattle on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:00:45 PM EST
    ... just like last time.

    (I know, Obama distanced himself from the DLC - under the influence of home-district static - but his heart's always been in the DLC camp or to the right of it.)

    Parent

    Situation Room w/Wolf Blitzer (none / 0) (#11)
    by chrisvee on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:41:09 PM EST
    Jeffrey Toobin just said that 'good Democrats' will make the convention about Barack Obama and not Hillary Clinton.

    Wolf Blitzer claims right before commercial that the Clinton camp is angry because she hasn't been consulted about the VP choice.

    Carville was just on and (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by inclusiveheart on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:45:23 PM EST
    he was pretty unhappy about the Politico story.  He made a point of saying "if it is true", but he was visibly annoyed and doing his best to hold back.  Blitzer is reporting on him and I expect Begala too.  Both of whom may be representative of a lot of Clinton supporters' feelings on this issue.

    But I'd just like to ask Jeffery Toobin to keep his nose out of my party's politics.  If he is a Democrat, I'd be very surprised.

    Parent

    Bayh is a fairly safe choice (none / 0) (#15)
    by GOPmurderedconscience on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:43:38 PM EST
    He doesn't have legions of Dems against him and I don't think he brings too much baggage.

    Apparently, 100,000 people signed (none / 0) (#22)
    by inclusiveheart on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:47:04 PM EST
    up to some no to Biden facebook page.  Bayh definitely has his detractors based on what I've seen.

    Parent
    He doesn't have a whole lot of anything (none / 0) (#64)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:10:48 PM EST
    except hair :)  I hope they vetted his haircuts for God's sake.  He's easy on my girlish nature eyes though in a soft sensible way.

    Parent
    Obama's answer to Change (none / 0) (#182)
    by chopper on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 10:32:08 PM EST
    An old guy with Hair Plugs.  Biden can't even keep his eyes open.

    Wowee, that's some change.

    Parent

    BTD: An Idea For a Future Posting (none / 0) (#25)
    by JimWash08 on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:48:42 PM EST
    I shared this with Jeralyn on her thread, and I want to share it with you too.

    Courtesy of CNN/Wolf Blitzer

    Would a future Obama Administration/White House be a very secretive one? ... Considering how they're now stringing everyone and the media along; and behaving very coy with smart-alecky responses to queries.

    Well, I think it's a question to consider... (none / 0) (#36)
    by JimWash08 on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:57:11 PM EST
    because to my best knowledge, no other presidential nominee -- presumptive or not -- has ever held a decision as important as this for this long, and quite literally teased the media and the general public with each passing day and hour.

    Obama's not even yet in the White House, but he's already misled the media, much to their chagrin, several times.

    One significant time was when the traveling media pool was flown out of Washington as Obama was secretly shuttled out before the plane took off to meet with Hillary at Diane Feinstein's home.

    So what might this all mean if Obama becomes President. They already had a problem with Bush in the lead up to the Iraq war.

    Parent

    wolf blitzer has too much time to kill (none / 0) (#157)
    by hellothere on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 07:38:31 PM EST
    on cnn. how about bring aaron brown back and reducing wolf's time. it would be appreicated by all the viewers. bringing hillary up? they sound desperate.

    Parent
    Well, let's see... (none / 0) (#186)
    by chopper on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 10:47:48 PM EST
    We don't know if his birth certificate is a forgery or not.

    We don't know if he is legally Barack Obama or Barry Soetoro.

    We don't know if he has an American or Indonesian passport.

    We don't know if he has dual citizenship, American and Indonesian.

    We don't know if he is eligible or not to be president.

    We haven't seen any college records.

    We haven't seen any state senate records (all destroyed?)

    He seldom votes on anything, just present.

    We don't know his stance on many issues, it keeps changing.  I think it's called flip-flopping.

    We haven't heard anymore about the 2000+ complaints concerning his caucus fraud and delegate theft.  However, there is a website addressing only that issue.  

    The FEC hasn't determined yet if he committed election fraud, money laundering through ACORN.

    All of these questions are on the internet.  Just Google.

    Parent

    hmmm (none / 0) (#30)
    by onthefence on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:51:24 PM EST
    my post disappeared.

    isn't this an open thread?

    sedation time, what's the best poison? (none / 0) (#31)
    by DandyTIger on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:52:28 PM EST
    It's definitely time to seriously sedate myself. Was wondering what people's choices were. I'm leaning toward the symbolic choice of the bitter busunders, beer.

    Valium and a warm bath - (none / 0) (#37)
    by Xanthe on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:57:29 PM EST
    wine makes me wake up at 3 am ready to scrub my kitchen floor -

    I have some vicadin around from the dentist recently - that's always good for a couple of hours of sleep.

    Parent

    Nightquill (none / 0) (#156)
    by BarnBabe on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 07:33:28 PM EST
    I've decided to (none / 0) (#39)
    by ccpup on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:58:26 PM EST
    empty out the toy box and watch my pups go at it.  Better than beer and a great way to pass the time until my partner gets home and we order our Friday Night Pizza.

    :-)

    Parent

    stop! (none / 0) (#40)
    by ccpup on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:59:11 PM EST
    you've got me bustin' a gut tonight!

    LOL

    The media is reporting on themselves. (none / 0) (#42)
    by inclusiveheart on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:59:48 PM EST
    That's not really where you want this sort of roll out to go.  Unless of course you want people to be distracted - which is I suppose possible - depressing - but certainly possible.

    When they start doing that (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:07:46 PM EST
    it is time to shut them off and start punning on Talkleft.

    Parent
    Bob Shrum - switched to MSNBC - (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by inclusiveheart on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:15:58 PM EST
    Shrum and Buchanan were just on.  I get so depressed when I think Buchanan is spot on and - well - I just get depressed at the sight of Bob Shrum.

    Parent
    Not only that.... (none / 0) (#143)
    by Jjc2008 on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 07:03:58 PM EST
    KNOCK me over with a freaking feather....Matthews actually said something I agreed with at the end.  This is the first time I have watched anything on MSNBC in eons....and was just curious about how the stance is there on the VP stuff.

    But Matthews at the end said neither should have gone to Saddleback (I said that at the beginning).  The infusion of religious beliefs into this race is just wrong.....

    Parent

    what did Knee-Cap say? (none / 0) (#147)
    by DFLer on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 07:10:39 PM EST
    That Biden is the best thing (none / 0) (#193)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:25:29 AM EST
    since sliced bread.

    If Shrum says something is good - I get a sinking feeling.

    Parent

    hey heart (none / 0) (#194)
    by DFLer on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:39:14 AM EST
    Knee-cap is my name for Buchanan...sorry to be obtuse.

    Shrum? like you say, why bother.

    Parent

    ain't that the truth (none / 0) (#148)
    by kempis on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 07:13:33 PM EST
    The only bright spot about this election is that Shrum isn't involved. Now another Dem consultant can lose.

    Parent
    Oh man (none / 0) (#87)
    by lilburro on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:23:10 PM EST
    that is really funny.

    Obama/Escher/Obama/Escher/Escher/Obama/Escher

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    The Fat Lady... (none / 0) (#47)
    by lentinel on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:02:10 PM EST
    The Fat Lady hasn't sung yet, but there's a pretty plump young man who has been warbling a disturbing little tune...

    What's Booman sayin? (none / 0) (#50)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:03:45 PM EST
    the fat lady is practicing in the hall (none / 0) (#159)
    by hellothere on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 07:40:29 PM EST
    and the clinton supporters have barred the door. it won't last i am afraid. go hillary ladies!

    Parent
    Maybe it's the Los Angelino/Hollywood in me... (none / 0) (#53)
    by gmo on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:05:23 PM EST
    ...but does anyone else see  "Obama/Bayh", and say yich?   Those Drudge bumper stickers look God awful.  

    Sorry, I know this is about as low-brow and trashy a comment one can make in this forum, but I do think there's something to the optics of that combination that just doesn't make any sense.   Clinton-Gore sounded good.  Bush-Cheney, sounded good. Reagan-Bush sounded good.   But Obama-Bayh?  Yich.

    But... (none / 0) (#85)
    by lansing quaker on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:20:12 PM EST
    It can make for interesting play on words.  Like, headlines such as, "Clinton Supporters Say 'Bayh' to Obama."

    Parent
    Or. (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by gmo on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:29:32 PM EST
    "Nah nah nah nah...hey hey hey...Bayh Bayh!"

    Parent
    Maybe Obama has (none / 0) (#55)
    by Andy08 on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:06:11 PM EST
    indeed chosen his pick but such pick still needs convincing?...That'd account for dragging this on and on and on and on...

    Obama/Warren Wallace (none / 0) (#65)
    by magster on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:11:46 PM EST
    A hundred miles away and ready to strike!  McCain's going into the wall.

    Bumper stickers are a hoax... (none / 0) (#72)
    by gmo on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:13:33 PM EST
    ...according to NBC.

    The wine is starting to taste nasty (none / 0) (#92)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:26:27 PM EST
    Nothing is working for me now and I thought I didn't even really care.  What to do?  I'm getting so peeved I can't even get myself interested in the new Martha Stewart issue!  This is stupid!

    Tracy, I think you were on vacation when my (none / 0) (#101)
    by Teresa on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:32:51 PM EST
    nephew got home from Iraq last month. They just got orders to go to Afghanistan next summer. I'm dreading it already.

    Parent
    Yes, I must have been gone (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:38:48 PM EST
    It is NOT fun AT ALL at this time to have anyone you love or even remotely care about in the service. I wish I had some good advice about how  not to dread but I'm a pathetic dreader too.  Usually I can get an idea about how a situation is panning out too by listening to enough voices serving but I can't tell anything about Afghanistan.  Everybody is all over the map on the situation right now.  I wish him and his family good rest and down time, to the last drop as the Maxwell House Commercial's up earlier say!

    Parent
    I'm sorry Theresa (5.00 / 3) (#120)
    by dissenter on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:48:12 PM EST
    I have spent the better part of the last year and half over there. It is getting very, very bad. Some of us think that Kabul will fall by Spring.

    I wish your nephew much luck.

    Parent

    Those bumper stickers (none / 0) (#102)
    by akaEloise on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:33:56 PM EST
    would go really well with the Colorado Rockies 2007 World Series Champions T-shirts.

    Duh (none / 0) (#112)
    by onthefence on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:41:37 PM EST
    Just saw a headline that said "Obama VP announcement expected on Saturday."

    Well, that is a some quality reporting.

    I saw that too. It says a couple of hours before (none / 0) (#121)
    by Teresa on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:48:44 PM EST
    the event. Is it at 12 central or eastern? Anyone know?

    Parent
    Fonts and the Bayh sticker (none / 0) (#124)
    by lambert on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:50:28 PM EST
    Biden charter (none / 0) (#128)
    by Andy08 on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:53:15 PM EST
    Steve Clemons:  Biden It seems there was a charter sent from IL to him...Clemons is reporting this via Marc Ambinder (he has the two links)

    I figured it out (none / 0) (#134)
    by Manuel on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:57:57 PM EST
    The hold up is that he picked Hillary but she said no.

    Hints gave it away (none / 0) (#139)
    by Rashomon66 on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 07:01:45 PM EST
    Obama's hints yesterday told me it was Bayh or Sebelius.
    He said
    I try to surround myself with people who are about getting the job done, and who are not about ego, self--aggrandizement, getting their names in the press...

    That told me it wouldn't be Biden. At least not for VP. Biden would be a good Secretary of State.

    You're all wrong (none / 0) (#141)
    by Dadler on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 07:02:48 PM EST
    It's gonna be Toby Keith, who'll stick a boot in his ace when Obama needs it.  Come on, what better way to get the neck vote.

    Expect the Unexpected (none / 0) (#145)
    by mmc9431 on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 07:05:56 PM EST
    I still have a nagging feeling that Obama is going to pick someone very unconventional (such as a real hard nose Blue Dog Dem or even a Rep, to emphasize his unity theme. At this point Hagel really wouldn't surprize me all that much.

    I think a Washington fixture like Biden would be so against everything he's campaigned about from the start. Bayh would add nothing including Indiana. I think Obama would take a kind of perverse pleasure in "shaking up" the status quo.

    I sincerely hope I'm wrong. I don't want 4 more yrs of a Republican in the WH.

    NBC (none / 0) (#149)
    by CHDmom on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 07:17:01 PM EST
    just had Bayh and Kaine were told they are not the VP scrolling at the bottom of msnbc

    If it's Biden (none / 0) (#153)
    by magisterludi on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 07:25:33 PM EST
    the let down will be significant, I predict. I myself will be tuning out. It will prove to me he isn't serious about any change I care about.

    i channel surfed past fox just now. (none / 0) (#170)
    by hellothere on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 09:17:03 PM EST
    it sounds like biden from what i am hearing.

    Parent
    Yup. So much for 'change' (none / 0) (#184)
    by SueBonnetSue on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 10:33:35 PM EST
    Biden is so inside the beltway, he can't see over the traffic.  

    Parent
    I want Bayh because he's hot. (none / 0) (#172)
    by WillBFair on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 09:49:11 PM EST
    Other than that, the entire issue is a snooze fest.
    Or how about this idea? Obama picks Hillary, wins the ge, goes on an 8 year junket to Paris, and Bill and Hillary run the country. No matter how it turns out, I'll be pretending that's what happened.

    Re: Joe Biden - BTD here's what local ABC said. (none / 0) (#177)
    by Rhouse on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 10:15:32 PM EST
    6ABC (the Philadelphia ABC outlet) is reporting from an "excellent source" that Secret Service agents have been sent to take over the security detail for Joe Biden on tonight's 11:00pm news.

    Yuck, how completely uninteresting. (none / 0) (#183)
    by SueBonnetSue on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 10:32:32 PM EST
    Who the heck cares about Biden?  

    Parent
    Mrs. M sez (none / 0) (#178)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 10:17:17 PM EST
    "A lot of people are going to be verrrrry disappointed."

    The Biden choice will make republicans happy (none / 0) (#181)
    by SueBonnetSue on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 10:31:28 PM EST
    They won't have to worry about Virginia or Indiana turning blue and they can count on Biden turning off voters with constant running off a the mouth.  The man never shuts up and his ego is bigger than Texas.  What a terrible choice.  

    Can anyone tell me what Biden brings to the ticket?  Which voters does he bring to the Obama camp?  The 6 republicans who live in Delaware?  

    Only thing I see (none / 0) (#189)
    by chopper on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 11:23:06 PM EST
    Is an insult to Hillary coming from an incompetent, egotistical, punk.

    Parent