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Obama-McCain Post Debate Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:30:40 PM EST
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Who won? I think Obama killed McCain on foreign policy. No one could watch that debate and have doubts about his ability to deal with these issues.

McCain represents the past. Obama looks like the future.

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    Obama-McCain Post Debate Thread | 198 comments (198 topical)
    If people watched the whole debate, (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by andgarden on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:33:08 PM EST
    McCain is toast.

    But if people only watched the first few minutes, Obama's got problems.

    I wish Obama had been stronger and better on the economy. He had a question teed up that should have been great for him, and he blew it.

    I think if you want ... (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:04:52 PM EST
    a bored disengaged President on the economy, tonight's debate gave us two candidates of that type to choose from.

    I was more disappointed in Obama, because I expect more from him.

    I thought Obama had a chance to put McCain away in in the first section. He did not do that.

    Ultimately it did seem to be a battle of which candidate would win the "out of touch" award.

    I think they both won that one.

    This debate will probably change few minds.  But once again we see Obama being given a chance to "close the deal," and failing to do that.

    Parent

    Expectations (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by Lou Grinzo on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:07:34 PM EST
    I generally agree, and I think part of the "who won" issue is that ol' devil, expectations.  People have expectations of not just individual candidates but of parties.  Obama is from the "wonky, domestic" party, so he should have excelled on the economy, and he missed a ton of opportunities.  But he did better than "expected" on FP.

    McCain is from the "macho, foreign policy" party, so people were probably surprised by how focused he was on the economy, and how antiquated he sounded on FP.

    Honestly, if I had to pick an overall winner, I'd say Obama, but by a much thinner margin than I was hoping for.


    Parent

    I agree andgarden. But the thing that saved (none / 0) (#23)
    by CaptainAmerica08 on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:43:15 PM EST
    Obama was McCain was also (probably even more) lacking on the economy.

    Parent
    John Buck Turgid McCain (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by robrecht on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:33:27 PM EST
    General Buck Turgid

    As a hard-core Hillary (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by Radiowalla on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:33:59 PM EST
    supporter from Day One, I salute Barack Obama for his performance tonight!

    He ROCKED!  

    You mean he (5.00 / 0) (#14)
    by mg7505 on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:40:14 PM EST
    Ba-rocked? :-)

    Parent
    I'm glad to hear that. . . (none / 0) (#17)
    by LarryInNYC on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:40:27 PM EST
    but I didn't hear that much rocking on the radio.

    Parent
    Ahh (5.00 / 0) (#44)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:49:56 PM EST
    You did not see it.

    The visuals were critical.

    It made all the difference.

    Parent

    Your take? (5.00 / 0) (#62)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:56:20 PM EST
    Is it below?

    Obama did well....McCain floundered until the end but Obama wins both segments....

    Parent

    I actually posted a comment. . . (none / 0) (#79)
    by LarryInNYC on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:00:35 PM EST
    in the debate thread asking people to let me know what the visuals are like.  The general consensus (this was early on) was no advantage to either party.

    Parent
    McCain got worse. (none / 0) (#135)
    by coigue on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:18:25 PM EST


    Parent
    A "like who you like" debate. (5.00 / 5) (#4)
    by LarryInNYC on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:34:03 PM EST
    No killer lines, no major gaffes (unless one can be manufactured, out of what I don't know).  People will basically wind up coming out liking who they liked when they went in.

    However, anyone who was seeking reassurance about Obama probably got it -- he obviously knows his stuff.

    I'm proud of Obama (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by lilburro on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:38:37 PM EST
    I think he did a great job (except for the beginning).  He sounded patriotic and strong.  I am doing some canvassing for Obama tomorrow and he has helped me tonight.

    Parent
    Assuming they stayed tuned (none / 0) (#5)
    by andgarden on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:34:58 PM EST
    Maybe Obama needs a beer before the next one.

    Parent
    Reassuring. (none / 0) (#10)
    by Brillo on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:37:04 PM EST
    People needing reassuring (especially on foreign policy and security matters) about Obama are probably  a huge portion of the undecided voters out there.  

    Parent
    I just am not reassured (4.00 / 1) (#85)
    by lentinel on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:01:51 PM EST
    The way Obama talks about Russia is really retro - as far as I am concerned.
    I think he was really off when he said that "wildest dreams" line.

    He comes across as being the more intelligent and nuanced of the two of them, but he swallows so many of the Bush talking points in the process that I wonder if any of his better instincts would prevail.

    Parent

    I suspect that is electoral politics (none / 0) (#136)
    by coigue on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:19:56 PM EST
    I also suspect we will find out for sure in January

    Parent
    You may be right (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by lentinel on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:22:26 PM EST
    One can only hope that Obama doesn't really believe some of the stuff he is throwing out there.

    Parent
    I f you listen to him long enough (5.00 / 2) (#165)
    by coigue on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:32:03 PM EST
    you hear the nuance. But I start chewing on my arm when Obama says he is pro missile shield.

    Parent
    hmn (none / 0) (#176)
    by connecticut yankee on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:38:15 PM EST
    Early polls have Obama winning. By tommorrow we'll have a better idea.

    Parent
    Is McCain still there? (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by lilburro on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:35:44 PM EST
    Obama has ended so strongly.  No ums, no ahs.  My only concern is that since the current subject in the press is the bailout, that strength will be lost, because both of them were pretty muddling on the economy (even though Obama is now tying foreign policy issues and economy together).  

    If you were watching on TV, Obama's facial expressions were also more level-headed (level-faced?) than McCain's.  He strikes a C-in-C tone.  McCain actually doesn't.

    I've never been an Obama supporter (5.00 / 4) (#13)
    by caseyOR on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:39:05 PM EST
    but I don't see how anyone who watched the entire debate tonight could fail to see that, of the two, Obama is the better choice. I come away from this thinking of McCain as a disaster in the making.

    Anyone notice... (5.00 / 0) (#15)
    by DudeE on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:40:15 PM EST
    ...that McCain consistently introduced his rebuttals with 'I don't think he understands...'

    He came off condescending and defensive.

    Gruff, mean, and old (5.00 / 0) (#18)
    by andgarden on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:40:56 PM EST


    Parent
    Obviously planned. . . (5.00 / 0) (#20)
    by LarryInNYC on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:42:54 PM EST
    and skating a bit too close to some racial tropes for my taste.

    Parent
    I flinched every time Obama called (5.00 / 3) (#59)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:54:23 PM EST
    him "John."  Have a little respect, youngster.  McCain always referred to Obama as Sen. Obama.

    BTW:  who knew David Plouffe is a mere child.  He looks really young to me.

    P.S.  Who the heck cares what the campaign folks have to say about the debate in the spin room.  What a waste of time.

    Parent

    I found it awkward... (5.00 / 0) (#69)
    by DudeE on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:58:16 PM EST
    ...when McCain would look at Lehrer and state that 'he doesn't understand' as though it was too uncomfortable with the statement to address Obama by name.  Maybe it's just me, but it was very distracting and peculiar.

    I don't find it disrespectful for two men holding the same office to refer to one another by first name.  It was often 'Hillary' or 'Barack' in the Democratic debates.

    Parent

    racial tropes? (none / 0) (#61)
    by nycstray on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:55:52 PM EST
    how about experience or lack there of?

    Parent
    I thought I was (none / 0) (#66)
    by shoulin4 on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:57:14 PM EST
    the only one who saw and was bit uncomfortable with that possible undertone.

    Parent
    Obama is on his lawn! (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by TomStewart on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:59:27 PM EST


    Parent
    Re: anyone notice? (5.00 / 0) (#137)
    by wasabi on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:20:56 PM EST
    Whenever McCain started up on his "What Senator Obama doesn't understand" or "Senator Obama is just plain wrong" the line for both the Independents and democrats took a dive.  McCain wasn't scoring any points with those groups when he became condescending.

    Parent
    Every time McCain (none / 0) (#24)
    by shoulin4 on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:43:23 PM EST
    said that, my TV starting sweating.

    Parent
    After the debate, (5.00 / 0) (#19)
    by shoulin4 on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:42:34 PM EST
    my strong dislike for McCain has increased exponentially. I can't believe how many lies he gets away with, especially when he's trying to cover his own butt.

    On a lighter note, my TV will live to see another day.

    I wish Obama was a better debater (5.00 / 0) (#21)
    by Jjc2008 on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:42:57 PM EST
    but overall I believe he won.

    McCain was a condescending jerk.
    He was also using scare tactics. His base likes that but that is because they love the paternalistic "daddy knows best" .....

    I hope to God Obama is a better Prez than (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by CaptainAmerica08 on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:45:49 PM EST
    a debater. He was solid tonight, but he could have done even better considering who his opposition was.

    Parent
    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by Lou Grinzo on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:13:39 PM EST
    My biggest complaint about Obama tonight was not the things he said or how he said them, but the things he walked right past, in silence.

    Parent
    Eugene Robinson thinks Obama won on the economy (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:45:28 PM EST
    I give up

    To clarify..... (none / 0) (#40)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:49:17 PM EST
    I think Obama won the debate because he finished so strong, and is just plain right on foreign policy.  but if that economic part had been at the end, we would have lost.

    Parent
    Robinson is so in the tank. Remember the (none / 0) (#42)
    by CaptainAmerica08 on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:49:26 PM EST
    ecomony is the #1 issue. So ER is trying to protect Obama's key strength.

    Parent
    Actually that was the substance of his analysis (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:56:40 PM EST
    The economy is Obama's strength, therefore even talking about it means he won.  Idiot.

    Parent
    Of course he does (none / 0) (#151)
    by BrassTacks on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:27:00 PM EST
    Robinson is a huge Obama supporter.  

    I wasn't impressed with any of them, including Lehrer.  They all sounded kinda wimpy.  

    Parent

    Unbelievable (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by coigue on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:45:46 PM EST
    Gergen thought Mccain was better on foreign policy, Bennett agrees.

    Did they create their comments BEFORE watching the debate.

    McCain=Yesterday (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Radiowalla on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:45:50 PM EST
    Obama=Tomorrow.

    McCain seemed so deja-vu, so yesterday, so old school.  An old warrior and a tired one at that.  

    Yeah. All that Reagan adulation. (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:56:40 PM EST
    I forget, who else did that?

    Parent
    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by Lou Grinzo on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:17:45 PM EST
    I hate to admit it, but ever since we knew it was going to be Obama vs. McCain I've been wondering how the "new guy/old guy" dynamic was going to play out.  McCain certainly didn't look feeble or physically disadvantaged compared to Obama, but you could almost smell the layers of dust on many of his statements.

    Obama really sounded like a fresh start for the country.

    Parent

    Obama wore much more expensive clothes (none / 0) (#171)
    by BrassTacks on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:35:05 PM EST
     and they fit much better too.  McCain didn't look like the rich guy he's supposed to be, his suit was not expensive, it didn't fit that well, and the blue shirt with that tie looked like country bumkin who isn't used to dressing up.  

    Parent
    Agreed. First time I've seen a suit fit Obama (none / 0) (#187)
    by Cream City on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:47:10 PM EST
    but he's got to get a good tailor's advice on a collar that better suits his long neck, and he'd really ace it in the closeups.  The collar style he's got makes him look a bit gawky, and that's not good with his youth.  The correct collar would add to his gravitas, as the excellent shoulder line of the suitjacket did.  (And he has to do a last-minute double-check in a mirror to straighten his tie.:-)

    McCain's suit and stuff, I really didn't notice.  But his makeup was great, best I've seen yet.  I want to know what miracle wrinkle cover that was!

    Parent

    Obama was good, McCain was repetitive, (5.00 / 0) (#32)
    by No Blood for Hubris on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:46:09 PM EST
    stupid, and bad-tempered.

    Surge surge surge.  Cut spending cut spending. POW POW Petraeus Petraeus.  Drill drill.

    Yawn.

    I was fascinated by the lines...the (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Teresa on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:47:40 PM EST
    independents were much more in line with the Dem's. Every now and then, they went higher than the Democrats did.

    Also, Bill Clinton is right...don't attack McCain. The line went down when either said something mean about the other. And, they don't like the personal stories.

    I'm listening to NPR (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by akaEloise on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:48:33 PM EST
    Mara Liasson says it was a draw --  "they both did fine".  
    Ron Elving says Obama held his own.
    Guy from Weekly Standard, Matt something, says it was a draw with a slight edge for McCain because Obama had to explain his positions, and McCain was able to talk up his experience.
    Dionne says if it is a draw, then it's a win for Obama since foreign policy was supposed to be his weak part.   Voters needed to find comfort zone with Obama's ability to lead, and now they should.
    Farai Chideya says it was odd that there was no mention of US-Mexico relations.  

    I agree. . . (none / 0) (#45)
    by LarryInNYC on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:50:07 PM EST
    with basically all that analysis.

    Parent
    Crunched over and grumpy, not presidential (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by robrecht on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:48:38 PM EST
    So Tweety on General Buck Turgid McCain.

    CNN is remarking on "John is right" (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by nycstray on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:48:39 PM EST
    that was one thing I noticed also.

    While McCain may have had a bit of a stumble on the Iranian dude's name, I was impressed with his handling of the Russian names.  

    I think Obma has improved a lot in his delivery. It wasn't painful and seemed to stray less than in the past. Much easier to listen to and follow.

    As a too frequent reader of (5.00 / 4) (#86)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:02:02 PM EST
    Talk Left, I fully expected Sen. McCain to come across as a blithering idiot.  But, he didn't.  I didn't watch the CNN meter, as I prefer a more pristine debate venue.

    Parent
    McCain is no blithering idiot (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:12:46 PM EST
    His approach to governance, and particularly foreign policy, is terrible, but he's no idiot. A great deal of Left Blogistan-- at least its commenters-- probably influenced by youngsters who never heard of McCain before this election, has wildly underestimated him.

    Parent
    Well, true, he has surprised me (5.00 / 0) (#133)
    by robrecht on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:18:05 PM EST
    during earlier parts of this campaign.  I used to like him some in 2000 but then lost all respect when he went crawling back to the religious reich begging their forgivenes.  And at time during this campaign he has seemed almost senile, but other times much clearer.  I've been attributing his good days to getting a nap.

    Parent
    ya (5.00 / 0) (#182)
    by connecticut yankee on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:42:28 PM EST
    Yeah, me too. I used to like McCain but like many people, grew out of it.

    I remember McCain going at it in 2000 with Bush.  I didnt expect him to fold.  He's got some tricks.

    Ive been saying all day that Obama really just needs a draw on this one.  FP is the lions den.  It looks like the early polls have Obama actually winning it.

    Parent

    Always... (none / 0) (#132)
    by Brillo on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:17:45 PM EST
    With the 'youngsters' garbage with some folks.  

    Parent
    OK, so what do you attribute it to? (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:22:21 PM EST
    Seriously.  There's been an abolute flood of people who have obviously no history of paying attention to politics before the last year pronouncing and instructing officiously on all things political.  Sorry, but it's incredibly annoying, and it's led many other folks very much astray.

    I'm sure some of them are older folks who only got interested this year, but I don't think there can be any argument that it's mostly people who are so wet behind the ears, they're dripping on the carpet.

    But if the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it.

    Parent

    That's just sad (2.00 / 1) (#125)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:16:10 PM EST
    McCain absolutely proved himself a blithering idiot tonight.

    I am shocked that you would not see that following Bush policies is sheer idiocy.

    On the politics of it, McCain did well on the economy, butnot on the substance. Obama just blew that part of the debate.

    On foreign policy, McCain was nothing but an idiot on all levels.

    Parent

    What I heard was both candidates (none / 0) (#147)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:24:27 PM EST
    saying we need to find and kill bin Laden, we'll defend Georgia at all costs, and we need many more troops in Afghanistan to rout out the Taliban and al Quaida, which are intermingled amongst the tribes in the lawless aress. Obama said we need to "look at" getting our troops out of Iraq.  McCain says we stay and win.  Pakistan--who knows what either thinks; pretty much of a jumble; I gather both approve of unilateral U.S. military action there, but maybe one won't tell any one ahead of time.  

    I know McCain is a war monger, hasn't supported legislation for veterans benefits, is a pro-lifer who promises to appoint to SCOTUS clones os Alito and Scalia.  Didn't hear Obama point out these obvious differences.  Wish he would.  

    I am absolutely serious you would benefit those of us voting for McCain but not as informed as you on his deficienies if you would post specifics, which would assist us in convincing others why McCain is craven, etc.  

    Parent

    Is it true that Obama (none / 0) (#156)
    by BrassTacks on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:27:57 PM EST
    Said that EIGHT times?!  What the heck?!  

    Parent
    Just watching CNN and MSNBC (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by Lil on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:49:14 PM EST
    for a few minutes, flicking back and forth, I found myself wondering if we all watched the same debate. I think the commentary was very favorable to McCain so far.

    The essence of cable news punditry... (none / 0) (#52)
    by DudeE on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:52:33 PM EST
    ...is that there can be no agreement.  McCain could've keeled over at the podium and someone would claim it may have given him an edge since it won him sympathy... or whatever...

    Parent
    The thing is (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by Steve M on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:49:39 PM EST
    McCain really had almost nothing to offer to Independents tonight, which is where the ballgame is played.  If you agree with the Republican approach on foreign policy, or if you're Grover Norquist and you want huge spending cuts in everything, he's probably your guy.  But I don't think he did an effective job of reaching out.

    I thought the home run moment was when Obama linked McCain to Bush and nailed them both on being obsessed with Iraq to the exclusion of all other issues, and McCain responded by walking right back into the trap and talking about how Iraq is the key to everything.  That was a great contrast to close on.

    Frankly. . . (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by LarryInNYC on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:52:10 PM EST
    what McCain was trying to push on the independents is the notion that a black can can't (eg "doesn't") understand the kinds of things you need to know to be President.

    Hope it doesn't work, but I don't have a very high opinion of the American electorate.

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 4) (#60)
    by Steve M on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:55:19 PM EST
    Maybe, maybe not.  I tend to think it's more of a "he's just a kid" thing.  I doubt it works with many people when Obama is right there sounding assertive and capable.

    I think Obama will only continue to improve his numbers with Independents after this debate.

    Parent

    Exactly (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:00:08 PM EST
    Obama laughed out loud at the end when, after an hour of intelligent, well thought out answers on foreign policy, McCain said Obama obviously didn't understand things.  Too funny.

    Parent
    A Black? (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by BrassTacks on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:40:23 PM EST
    Or just someone with very little experience?  I saw nothing racial about the debate but I do tend to ignore race.  

    Parent
    It was not clear whether McCain's sneering (5.00 / 0) (#202)
    by Christy1947 on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 11:04:13 PM EST
    and condescention was racist in origin but it was much too obvious, as was his shouting down O when O tried to answer something or comment. It made McCain look rude and unpresidential.  As if many of his words did not do that.

    Parent
    Feh on me. . . (2.00 / 1) (#54)
    by LarryInNYC on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:52:48 PM EST
    "black man can't".

    Parent
    Larry, are you serious? I thought he was (5.00 / 3) (#84)
    by Teresa on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:01:47 PM EST
    referring to "experience". I didn't get that feeling at all.

    Parent
    You don't get the feeling because (5.00 / 0) (#116)
    by CaptainAmerica08 on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:13:39 PM EST
    maybe because you aren't 1) racist and 2)hang out with racists(I do because I live is Miss. and have friends that are racist and sexist. It's not something I'm proud of but they are childhood friends and I don't let them influence my beliefs)
    Think of it this way: Imagine a man saying that every five minutes to a female candidate. (like what happened to Ferraro.)

    Parent
    I'm in TN so I share your pain. I still didn't (5.00 / 3) (#126)
    by Teresa on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:17:01 PM EST
    get that feeling at all, though. I thought he was making fun of Obama's inexperience and youth. I honestly didn't see it.

    Parent
    good point there (none / 0) (#143)
    by Howard Zinn on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:22:55 PM EST
    if Biden says over and over, "Gov. Palin just doesn't understand that seeing a country from your front porch doesn't give you foreign policy experience," and "Gov. Palin don't understand" this and that, he'd be labeled a discriminator x 1000.

    Parent
    Nope. (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by nycstray on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:28:15 PM EST
    there's a chance Biden could make it sound sexist (it is Biden after all!), but in general it would play to her lack of experience. It's not like the Dems haven't been screaming it from the rooftops . . . .

    Of course, it could backfire if Biden tries it because it could circle back on Obama's experience, or lack there of.

    Parent

    we'll see (none / 0) (#172)
    by Howard Zinn on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:35:15 PM EST
    but I think that the microscope on Biden will have a much higher magnification that the one on McCain.

    Biden won't use that type of language w/Palin.  I'd bet $13.53.

    Parent

    I don't think he will either (5.00 / 2) (#181)
    by nycstray on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:42:16 PM EST
    He does need to be careful and I think he will (try to) be.

    Parent
    I don't agree at all. That wouldn't be sexist (none / 0) (#152)
    by Teresa on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:27:29 PM EST
    at all..he would be referring to her experience not her race or gender.

    Parent
    Me, either, Teresa (5.00 / 4) (#122)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:15:06 PM EST
    Any super-young guy who puts himself forward for president is going to get, and deserves to get, the same treatment from a guy who's been around for a long time.  If he can't parry it, he has no business being in the game at all.  I thought Obama did pretty well with that.

    But racist?  Give me a break.

    Parent

    Exactly, and if Biden does it to Palin (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by nycstray on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:25:00 PM EST
    it most likely (hey, it is Biden!) will NOT be sexist

    Parent
    not even in the realm of possibilty (none / 0) (#150)
    by coigue on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:26:51 PM EST
    is your opinion? Deserves a "gimme a break" response?

    You sure are sure of yourself

    Parent

    You picked up on that (none / 0) (#68)
    by CaptainAmerica08 on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:58:12 PM EST
    too? I just thought I was maybe being a little too PC. Maybe I still am...

    Parent
    Maybe I am too, (none / 0) (#73)
    by shoulin4 on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:59:11 PM EST
    I also thought along those lines.

    Parent
    Indeed (none / 0) (#53)
    by andgarden on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:52:36 PM EST
    Ooh, Zogby wants to poll me.

    Parent
    Sounds kind of rude! (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by LarryInNYC on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:53:18 PM EST
    Tell him your just not that into him.

    Parent
    Stop! (none / 0) (#58)
    by andgarden on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:54:00 PM EST


    Parent
    Stop what? (none / 0) (#88)
    by LarryInNYC on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:02:38 PM EST
    Oops.  Did I type that out loud?

    Parent
    heh (none / 0) (#91)
    by andgarden on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:03:14 PM EST


    Parent
    As the official "line" watcher, Obama (none / 0) (#67)
    by Teresa on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:57:55 PM EST
    won all the discussions on Iraq based on Independents in the focus group.

    I shouldn't be surprised, but it seems that Democrats were a bit more objective in their ratings. The red Republican line was much more consistent in some areas compared to the other two. That made it hard to judge the Independent line for me.

    McCain made a mistake in bringing up Iraq when he didn't have to.

    Parent

    The Debate was like the campaign (5.00 / 3) (#47)
    by Pedalman on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:50:08 PM EST
    Obama should have completely wiped the floor with McCain, just as Obama should be up by twenty points.
    It makes me very nervous that Obama will not just step in and get it done.  I need him to be better on his discussion of the economy, that is his issue and he did not inspire me tonight on that topic.
    I'm sorry but I live in western Colorado, it has been too long,(not 8 years but more like 28 years). Obama has got to really take the republithugs down.

    Bill

    hm (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by connecticut yankee on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:46:09 PM EST
    You expect Obama to wipe the floor with McCain on FP? McCain has a better record on debates than Obama. I dont know how you could expect that.

    That Obama is viewed as the winner in the polls is pretty amazing. This was McCains FP debate and he wont get to discuss this stuff much again before Nov 5.  Its economy all the way now, which favors democrats.

    Parent

    Yeah, winning presidential elections (none / 0) (#158)
    by coigue on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:28:40 PM EST
    in America should be easy if you are a Democrat, but it aint.

    Can we get over that unfairness, yet?

    Parent

    Freeze all spending... (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by laila on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:58:43 PM EST
    except for defense.  That is ridiculous did anyone else feel that was a crazy statement.  

    **raises hand enthusiastically** (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by shoulin4 on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:59:57 PM EST
    n/t

    Parent
    I get the sense... (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by DudeE on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:02:49 PM EST
    ...McCain thought that up on the fly... very dangerous and stupid comment.  Gotta wonder what the millions of Federal employees out there thought of that one.

    Parent
    On NBC (5.00 / 5) (#75)
    by indy in sc on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:59:42 PM EST
    they had Biden give his take on the debate and for McCain they had...Giuliani.  The republicans should be embarrassed that their VP candidate can't even appear on TV to represent their campaign.  

    Brian Williams mentioned that they extended an invitation to Palin but she "declined."

    Wow (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by sallywally on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:27:48 PM EST
    That's really bad - but not at all surprising. It has to be getting really obvious that she's a huge disaster.

    Parent
    hm (none / 0) (#118)
    by connecticut yankee on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:13:56 PM EST
    I read that internally the McCain camp is worried about her.  THey dont know what to do.

    Parent
    It's just crazy (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by indy in sc on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:17:08 PM EST
    that she can't publicly represent her own ticket if it means she's going to be asked questions, but she's supposed to be able to publicly represent our country.  

    Parent
    Debate (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by Nan on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:03:05 PM EST
    McCain was the clear winner.

    He was on the offense throughout the debate. He had Obama reacting to him.

    McCain was passionate and sounded like someone well informed.

    McCain being offensive (5.00 / 0) (#110)
    by befuddledvoter on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:11:24 PM EST
    does not a winner make.

    Parent
    Not really (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:21:02 PM EST
    Obama turned to McCain and told him directly he was "wrong" on Iraq being a cakewalk, etc...

    Obama was assertive--I was pleased by that....

    Parent

    John McCain in '72 (none / 0) (#96)
    by robrecht on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:04:43 PM EST


    Parent
    Not a surprise (none / 0) (#167)
    by Realleft on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:33:20 PM EST
    You've already said you're for Hillary in 2012 and want Obama to lose.

    Parent
    Obama 70%, McCain 30% (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Howard Zinn on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:03:50 PM EST
    Just because Obama didn't want to seem angry.

    Obama came across as knowledgeable and in control, McCain just didn't.

    Didn't want to seem angry? (none / 0) (#183)
    by BrassTacks on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:43:55 PM EST
    How about Obama just seem forceful and assertive rather than defensive?  It was totally wimpy for Obama to keep agreeing with McCain.  

    Parent
    Just watched the opening to Olbermann's show (5.00 / 5) (#98)
    by joanneleon on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:05:15 PM EST
    I tell you, I'm against McCain, but Keith has become so over the top partisan that even I find it annoying.

    I would really like to hear some balanced reporting.  I am biased, so I know that point of view.  What I'm interested in is what other people are thinking and how they saw things.

    KO has become a complete embarrassment.  It's to the point where I look forward to Pat Buchanan, just to hear a somewhat honest point of view from the other side.  Fox and KO's show are too similar these days -- disingenuine.

    I don't watch... (5.00 / 6) (#108)
    by DudeE on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:08:49 PM EST
    ...can't stand to watch Keith O. any longer... not since his lunatic rant against Clinton back during the primary season.  Even before that I found his obsession with Bill O'Reilly a bit disturbing.  

    Parent
    I like the CNN panel right now (5.00 / 6) (#130)
    by nycstray on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:17:27 PM EST
    they have a couple of their international reporters on, so it's interesting to hear their take, imo. It's also a fairly calm group, lol!~

    Parent
    I'm watching CNN now (5.00 / 0) (#164)
    by sallywally on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:31:59 PM EST
    because of what you said, and the audience polls were all Obama. Great! John King thinks more Dems watched the debate - gotta have some excuse.

    Toobin is saying the impressions will multiply, and that all the networks are showing Obama winning.

    Parent

    I tried to watch Olberman (none / 0) (#162)
    by BrassTacks on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:29:48 PM EST
    But he was so far off the ranch that I switched to CNN and Fox.  

    Parent
    I watched CNN (5.00 / 3) (#101)
    by wasabi on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:06:39 PM EST
    And was fascinated by the focus group responses to the candidates responses.  Generally the independents tracked better with Obama unless the candidate was talking about 'sipporting our troops".
    The funniest part (in a sick sort of way) was when McCain mentioned his rejection of torture and the Independent and Democrat line shot up, but the Republican line dipped down.  Those Republicans like their torture just fine.

    Jeralyn would like this. When he mentioned (5.00 / 0) (#106)
    by Teresa on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:08:35 PM EST
    that he had a "Maverick" to work with him, the Indy line dropped fast.

    love it (5.00 / 0) (#159)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:28:48 PM EST
    she will tank his ticket, just wait.

    Parent
    I knew you would get a kick out of that. (none / 0) (#170)
    by Teresa on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:34:26 PM EST
    It didn't plunge to the bottom but it was a very obvious drop with the Indy's. The purple line for Democrats was hard to see. At least on my TV it was purple and not blue.

    Parent
    Really? That is something. (none / 0) (#124)
    by CaptainAmerica08 on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:15:50 PM EST


    Parent
    The be nice to McCain (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:11:30 PM EST
    tactic/strategy?? must be poll tested, as we have seen this with President Clinton and, tonight, with Senator Obama.  Indeed, the banishment of General Clark must have been based on violation of that test drive. It sure is not what I would like to see, for McCain, the candidate, does not deserve to be treated so politely and gingerly.  But, then,  I am not the object of the Obama campaign's affection--rather, the courtship is for the unsure and uncertain.  Moreover, the confrontational approach does not seem to be effective this time around. Hopefully, this is all correct and the mean old man telling the kids to get off the lawn will be the enduring  memory of this debate.

    i thought the same thing (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by sancho on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:41:55 PM EST
    that obama was being nice to the clearly insane older uncle. some of the focus groups clearly responded well (for obama) to obama's ethos.

    Parent
    well (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by connecticut yankee on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:12:06 PM EST
    CNN says its a draw.  I tend to agree.  The GOP guy said a draw benefited McCain because he wasnt KO'd.   David Gergen said McCain needed a clear win tonight and didnt get it.

    Body Language (5.00 / 0) (#119)
    by dissenter on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:14:37 PM EST
    That is what people look at I hate to say it. However, in that category Obama was a clear winner. McCain looked like he was going to explode at times.

    What I came away with....McCain is still in the jungles of Vietnam and I think that is what most people will see. All someone has to say is "Iraq" and he loses it on body language.

    Just my two cents.

    The fact-checking sites are interesting (5.00 / 4) (#121)
    by Cream City on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:14:52 PM EST
    such as WaPo's.  As I thought, a LOT of whoppers were told tonight.  That just ticks me off at both of them.  

    It was actually obvious (none / 0) (#161)
    by MoveThatBus on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:28:54 PM EST
    just by the expressions going on by the one who wasn't talking. The reactions were very telling. Both of them do a condescending laugh when they are being exposed for falsely stating the others position.

    Parent
    I wasn't watching so much as listening and (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by sallywally on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:21:34 PM EST
    McCain infuriated me with talking over Obama all the time - but Obama infuriated me by letting him do it. A Repub standard technique that always enrages me. Obama needs to prepare for that.

    I don't handle stuff like that well. I tend to scream WILL YOU PLEASE SHUT UP!!!!!! but I guess not a great debate technique.

    I agree that McCain's constant "Sen. Obama doesn't understand" was obviously condescending, also exquisitely irritating. I hope that was obvious to folks in general. Did the reaction lines show anything in that regard?

    I can't stand to listen to the bloviators go on about it; you folks are my lifeline.

    The focus group didn't like that. They didn't (none / 0) (#146)
    by Teresa on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:24:26 PM EST
    like it when either went negative. I'm going to have to watch a replay of the debate and ignore the lines of the focus group because I was mesmerized and I know I missed a lot.

    Parent
    Is it significant Cindy McCain (4.00 / 3) (#105)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:07:55 PM EST
    came on stage dressed in a pantsuit after the debate?  I think so.  

    That is significant? (none / 0) (#153)
    by samtaylor2 on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:27:34 PM EST


    Parent
    Not really. Just to Hillary (none / 0) (#191)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:48:50 PM EST
    supporters looking for call outs.

    Parent
    Big surprise to me. . . (2.00 / 1) (#31)
    by LarryInNYC on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:45:54 PM EST
    Obama did very, very well on foreign policy.  And that was the important issue in this debate -- McCain is already weak on the economy and you want to attack the other guy on his strong points rather than his weak ones.

    What I didn't like - McCain attacked frequently.  Obama did very little attacking.

    Here is what I thought (5.00 / 6) (#34)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:47:41 PM EST
    and it surprised me - Obama looked like a President.

    McCain did not.

    Therefore, Obama won.

    Parent

    That's because Morgan Freeman. . . (5.00 / 6) (#41)
    by LarryInNYC on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:49:20 PM EST
    has played the President more often than Wilfred Brimley.

    Parent
    LOL (5.00 / 0) (#46)
    by CaptainAmerica08 on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:50:07 PM EST


    Parent
    That is the line of the night (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:58:49 PM EST


    Parent
    Good Point... (none / 0) (#57)
    by Brillo on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:53:58 PM EST
    I read a really interesting article this spring about the prevalence of Black presidents in pop culture over the last decade.  Wish I could find it again...

    Parent
    Yup. (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Radiowalla on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:03:37 PM EST
    'Nuf said.

    Parent
    BTD Is Right (5.00 / 2) (#160)
    by MTSINAIMAMA on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:28:53 PM EST
    Obama looked like a President. McCain looked like he was begging for a job.

    Parent
    More like one of those retired guys (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by robrecht on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:36:07 PM EST
    who keeps hanging around talking about old work stuff 'cause he doesn't have a real life, no hobbies but tinkering, cuts his grass once a week with plaid shorts and black socks pulled all the way up and dress shoes.  When he fills up with gas, he holds up the line at the pump for 5 minutes calculating his gas mileage.

    Parent
    Really .... really? (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:31:13 PM EST
    President of a Four-H Club maybe, but president of the US, I don't think so.

    One of Obama's worst debate performances.  McCain didn't do much better.

    Obama had a chance to recognize the current situation and show how he'd lead the nation out of it.

    Instead he leapt to old talking points as fast as his legs would carry him.

    Obama is still likely to win the election because of the financial crisis.  But he blew a chance to put McCain away tonight.

    Parent

    You are nuts. (1.00 / 1) (#168)
    by coigue on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:33:24 PM EST


    Parent
    So, coigue, you don't think Obama ... (none / 0) (#189)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:47:43 PM EST
    will win the election?

    ;)

    Parent

    heh. (none / 0) (#190)
    by coigue on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:48:39 PM EST
    I am starting too. Someone had better talk me down.

    Parent
    Obama could have and should have (none / 0) (#175)
    by BrassTacks on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:37:56 PM EST
    been much stronger.  This was the time to NOT be wimpy.  I thought all three of them looked wimpy.  I hate to say it, but Obama just doesn't come across as manly man.  Maybe that's a good thing, maybe it appeals to a wider base, but it doesn't excite me.  

    Parent
    You can't be serious. (3.00 / 2) (#192)
    by coigue on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:49:35 PM EST


    Parent
    That's why, (none / 0) (#39)
    by shoulin4 on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:49:14 PM EST
    IMO, Obama won, even if just by a bit, because he was expected to tank on foreign policy and he nearly wiped the floor with McCain.

    Parent
    The line (2.00 / 0) (#102)
    by Nan on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:06:54 PM EST
    I don't know why people pay any attention to the "line". It is meaningless.

    People form overall impressions. And overall McCain came across as a strong leader in command of the issues. Obama was on the defensive all night.

    OMG (none / 0) (#6)
    by joanneleon on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:35:18 PM EST
    The audience reaction meter on CNN took a dive the second McCain started talking.

    I just switched to CNN.  Hadn't been watching the meter.

    Really? I just saw so little reaction (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by Cream City on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:52:16 PM EST
    through the whole thing, it looked like a flatline on ER.  I wanted to call a Code Blue.

    I've watched those audience reaction graphs many times before and always saw spiking.  None this time, not for either one.  A yawner.  But maybe I missed the moment you saw. . . .

    Parent

    Toobin agrees. Not a lot of movement on (none / 0) (#56)
    by Teresa on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:53:48 PM EST
    the lines like you usually see.

    Parent
    Yeh, saw that just after I hit send (none / 0) (#93)
    by Cream City on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:03:47 PM EST
    and it's amazing to me how quiet this audience was compared to the hootin' and hollerin' in the primary debates.  Mostly Obama followers, of course.  Maybe because this was Mississippi?  Maybe there weren't many students?  Or has the American public realized this isn't a game, there are big stakes, and we're all just exhausted with worry?  I dunno, but it will be interesting to watch for polls again that measure enthusiasm.  

    Parent
    Well behaved Ole Miss people, I (none / 0) (#99)
    by Teresa on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:05:42 PM EST
    noticed that too. It was very respectful.

    Parent
    tthey told the audience (none / 0) (#139)
    by coigue on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:21:08 PM EST
    not to react audibly

    Parent
    And this audience listened and behaved (5.00 / 2) (#179)
    by Cream City on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:41:03 PM EST
    Would we had seen that in some of those primary debates.  Kudos to Southerners for manners -- the country and the world were watching, and maybe we can begin to restore our image.  I talked recently to some people from other countries who watched some of the primary debates via Internet videostream, and they were firmly convinced that we are a bunch of yahoos who have to grow up.

    Of course, some were UK citizens, so I could rebut that I have listened to BBC broadcasts of parliamentary debates, and they sound like brawlers in a pub sometimes, not in Parliament.

    Parent

    once I wnt to South Africa (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by coigue on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:47:20 PM EST
    and listened to this Awesome band in a bar from the Congo.

    They played Congolese music and rocked. But these drunk British guys kept requesting Bob Marley standards. Over and Over. Because a black band with a conga drum must play Reggae. It was gross.

    So the UK has some yahoos too.

    Parent

    Oh yeh. Watch 'em arrive in Amsterdam (none / 0) (#198)
    by Cream City on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:58:15 PM EST
    for a day trip, and it's like Animal House, The Sequel.:-)

    Parent
    Yeah. Then of course, there (none / 0) (#200)
    by coigue on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:59:15 PM EST
    is the whole "enabling of Bush in Iraq" business.

    That was the most obnoxious of all.

    Parent

    Good to know (none / 0) (#11)
    by andgarden on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:37:11 PM EST
    I didn't watch the meter. I'll look for the polls on monday!

    Borger: Obama held his own (none / 0) (#16)
    by andgarden on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:40:20 PM EST


    It takes a village! (none / 0) (#22)
    by robrecht on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:43:11 PM EST
    Gergen says McCain was strong on foreign policy but Obama had the best start in the debate of any he's ever seen.

    No, Gergen said (5.00 / 2) (#100)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:06:29 PM EST
    Obama had the best start he'd ever seen for Obama, was what I heard.

    Parent
    Oh, thanks (none / 0) (#113)
    by robrecht on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:12:38 PM EST
    I was trying to listen to the TV and Slingbox at the same time.

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#134)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:18:24 PM EST
    My sympathies...

    Parent
    Gergen said the opposite of BTD! (none / 0) (#25)
    by Teresa on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:43:33 PM EST
    He thinks early was all Obama and McCain better on foreign policy!

    Gergen was clearly wrong IMO (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by andgarden on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:44:55 PM EST


    Parent
    Makes me feel even more correct (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:50:26 PM EST


    Parent
    Jeesh (none / 0) (#63)
    by robrecht on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:56:27 PM EST
    Even Chris Wallace on Fox also thought Obama was stronger on the economy.

    Uh oh! You think. . . (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by LarryInNYC on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:58:44 PM EST
    the same people who got Josh Marshall got him also?

    Parent
    They deserve each other (5.00 / 3) (#80)
    by robrecht on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:00:40 PM EST


    Parent
    So everyone, a question.... (none / 0) (#76)
    by coigue on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 09:59:53 PM EST
    What's McCain's next "Razzle Dazzle"

    His next idea. . . (5.00 / 4) (#82)
    by LarryInNYC on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:01:24 PM EST
    is to declare he's suspending Obama's campaign instead.

    Parent
    He's needed in New Orleans to help Katrina victims (5.00 / 4) (#83)
    by robrecht on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:01:46 PM EST


    Parent
    Palin may need to rush back to Alaska (none / 0) (#103)
    by coigue on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:07:11 PM EST
    for an "extreme cold" emergency soon.

    Perhaps permanently.

    Parent

    heh (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by connecticut yankee on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:14:52 PM EST
    Olberman said tonight that Alaska and Russia were getting closer together and that soon Palin would leave to address the problem.

    Parent
    You know because when Putin (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by coigue on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:17:07 PM EST
    violates American air space, which state's air does he enter?

    Parent
    I don't think they can be that far apart from each (none / 0) (#117)
    by robrecht on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:13:45 PM EST
    other.

    Parent
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. (none / 0) (#81)
    by shoulin4 on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:01:06 PM EST
    Surge
    POW
    Osama
    Pork/Earmarks

    It's the gift that keeps on giving.

    Parent

    you missed the point (none / 0) (#95)
    by coigue on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:04:26 PM EST


    Parent
    I did? (none / 0) (#107)
    by shoulin4 on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:08:44 PM EST
    Sorry. Thought it was about his next ploy to avoid the issues/debates. I believe that he'll keep things fundamentally the same.

    Sorry about that =)

    Parent

    No. That's OK. (none / 0) (#123)
    by coigue on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:15:30 PM EST
    Let me explain: What you describe is the normal ploy.

    The "Razzle Dazzle" is: suspending the campaign to fly into Washington and "fix" the economy. Or: Selecting (then sequestering) Sarah Palin. Anything so dramatic that it focuses the public's attention from legitimate topics.

    Parent

    Biden on CNN (none / 0) (#87)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:02:28 PM EST
    "John McCain was dead wrong" on a list of issues.  Mired in the past.  

    I love this guy.

    Parent

    Andy Hiller who is political critic (none / 0) (#109)
    by befuddledvoter on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:10:06 PM EST
    Channel 7 in Boston gives the debate to Obama overwhelmingly.  Now to really appreciate this, Andy Hiller is biased against Obama consistently.  WOW!  He said Obama was more aggressive, more presidential, more energetic etc., and he pointed out this was FOREIGN POLICY.

    Star wars? (none / 0) (#129)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:17:13 PM EST
    Anybody else notice Obama came out as strongly supporting this?  Had he taken a position on it before?

    Oh no. Pander to Reagan lovers? (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by Cream City on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:34:05 PM EST
    I got soooooo sick of Reagan talking about his Star Wars, I wanted to beam him up to another planet, Scottie.

    Parent
    Bill Clinton supported it during the elections (none / 0) (#197)
    by coigue on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:56:06 PM EST
    too. I find that comforting, because he somehow did not manage to follow through.

    I think this was election politicing, frankly.

    Parent

    unlike some - I tried to make up (none / 0) (#149)
    by kenosharick on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:25:48 PM EST
    my mind AFTER watching the debate. It was near tie of mediocraty, with slight advantage to Obama.

    all I saw tonight is the same McCain (none / 0) (#154)
    by thereyougo on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:27:35 PM EST
    soft spoken,neater, 4 hairs in place.

    Did I miss anything?

    hey (none / 0) (#173)
    by connecticut yankee on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:35:20 PM EST
    hey, no baldist comments. Or baldism. Or whatever.

    Parent
    I watched C-Span, thought BTD (none / 0) (#166)
    by MoveThatBus on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:32:05 PM EST
    was going to be featured in comments after the debate.  The blogger they did feature was a woman, though.

    Did I miss the BTD contribution to analysis of the debate?

    CNN poll shows Obama won (none / 0) (#177)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:38:33 PM EST
    decisively.

    Overall:  Obama wins.

    Economy:  Obama wins big

    Iraq:  Obama wins by 5 points....

    Yeh, but basically -- no change (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by Cream City on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:52:08 PM EST
    when CNN reported the inclinations before the debate, too.  It was an almost exact matchup.  So why start with a group that was two-thirds for Obama?  Makes the whole exercise lack credibility.

    Most often, people find affirmation in debates for what they already have decided to do.  And undecideds interviewed by CNN remain undecided, mainly.  I heard one say he would vote McCain -- but he was registered as a Republican.  

    Of course, that was first reactions, which will disappear in what the media decide we thought.

    Parent

    What do the Fox polls show? (none / 0) (#185)
    by BrassTacks on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:46:05 PM EST
    Don't tell me, let me guess.  Just the opposite of CNN polls?  

    Parent
    Online poll, so fast? Self-selected? (none / 0) (#195)
    by Cream City on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:53:38 PM EST
    Or a valid and reliable one?  I can't find it on the website.

    Parent
    Telephone poll... (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by DudeE on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:58:57 PM EST
    ...sample of 500+

    Parent
    I guess ... (none / 0) (#184)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:44:43 PM EST
    appearing "out of touch" is what passes for Presidential these days.

    Terrible performance.

    But I don't think it will matter one whit.  Obama will still win the election because of the economy.

    I rarely think debates matter.  And this one less than most.

    Though it may serve me in one way.  If I have any trouble sleeping in the next few days, I'll just turn on one of the replays.  

    I agree that Obama was much better. And I (none / 0) (#193)
    by WillBFair on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:50:20 PM EST
    liked how smooth he was. But I never know how the public will react to anything. The way their minds work is a mystery to me. But it's great that most people think Obama kicked a--.

    hm (none / 0) (#196)
    by connecticut yankee on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:54:40 PM EST
    CNN says that women in particular scored the debate a win for OBama. 59% to 30 something.

    Obama also narrowly won the over 50s.

    Comments closing here (none / 0) (#203)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 11:17:43 PM EST
    new debate threads are up.

    Obama Won The First Debate (none / 0) (#204)
    by NiseyA on Sun Sep 28, 2008 at 05:18:05 AM EST
    Indeed, Obama won the first debate. He passionately spoke out in all respect on the concerns and interests of the American people, despite the fact that McCain's dismeanor was very appalling. We need a man like Obama to inspire and channel his undivided time to our country's real concerns. McCain seems to be harbouring some dysfunctional attributes within towards the real concerns of this country and is so profoundly concentrating on the fatcats and that 700 billion dollar check for him and his buddies. He seems to want to make more taxcuts to help the richer sectors in expose to helping the middle class, the people whom they would expect to pay for their comfort.

    Obama-McCain Post Debate Thread | 198 comments (198 topical)