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Monday afternoon Open Thread

Is it my imagination or is Valentines Day a bigger deal this year than in recent years? I think it's a bigger deal. There seems more attention to it, between the ads everywhere for gifts and flowers and magazines around the country promoting their "most eligible singles" issue. My theory as to why: Barack and Michelle Obama.

We haven't had a couple in the White House that represent romance in a long time. The inauguration showcased their warm and close relationship for all to see, and it's impossible not to be moved by it.

So, is romance back? I hope so because I'll have a post up in a few hours on tonight's Bachelor show on ABC with an interview I recently did of last season's Bachelorette winner, Colorado snowboarder Jesse Csinscak, and I'm looking for any way to make it not completely off-topic for TalkLeft. I'm probably the only interviewer who asked him who he voted for in November. (Yes, he answered.)

The interview probably won't generate many comments here, so I'm putting up an open thread now for all other topics.

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    Well to be honest (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by SOS on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 04:56:06 PM EST
    in most cases I think still kind of a "man gives love for sex and the women gives sex for love" thing.

    A few rare relationships here and there still are based upon lifelong partnership.

    I think (5.00 / 8) (#2)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 04:58:11 PM EST
    it has absolutely nothing to do with the Obamas (Personally, I have not heard one person mention their "great romance").

    I think it has to do with injecting some feel-good stuff into people's worlds in these days when it seems we are truly without direction and the worst is yet to come.  Love and candy and expensive jewelry will make us all feel better!  

    It's also to help retailers sell products in this horrible economy- sell a good feeling, sell more products!

    Yes very much so (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by SOS on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 05:17:00 PM EST
    plus for men try forgetting to give your wife or girlfriend a treat on V-Day and see what kind of response you get as an experiment. Then replying,
    "what the heck difference does it make we're together aren't we?"

    LOL Nice way to get frying pan over the head.

    Parent

    Maybe it's just you (none / 0) (#16)
    by cotton candy on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 05:37:56 PM EST
    and it could also be just the black community but that is all that my friends and I talk about now when it comes to relationships outside our own. Black love is beautiful and because it is often not on display in the mainstream it is so refreshing.

    Ebony magazine has spent at least five issues in the past year talking about black love and the Obamas and how their PDA has been of interest especially in the black community.

    I know my man squeezes my hand a bit harder everytime we see the Obamas together as we are just so proud of them.

    Parent

    I've noticed the same. (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by indy in sc on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 06:01:26 PM EST
    I think it's stronger within the black community, but I see it affecting friends of different races/ethnicities.  I hear people actually using them as an example for things they want to incorporate in their own lives such as their supposed "date night" or just holding hands more.  I

    All love is beautiful, but you're right that there has been a dearth of portrayal of loving, intact, black families both real and fictional and the Obamas are a breath of fresh air in that regard.

    Parent

    I've never been a fan (none / 0) (#50)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 11:32:59 PM EST
    of Obama politically, but it seems to me just a knock-out thing that the icon of "first family" and all that implies is now a black family.  In some ways, I think Michelle as first lady has a bigger impact on our -- both white and black America and every other color -- cultural assumptions even than President Obama does.

    And I think the romance between the two of them is obvious and terrifically heartening.  From at least what we can see, they have as a full and understanding a relationship as any couple could ever hope to have, sexy and comfortable and mutually respectful, intellectually and emotionally strong, but seemingly lacking the sturm und drang of the perhaps too intense and fraught Clinton marriage.

    Anyway, I think the Obama family -- very much including the bright and exuberant but perfectly behaved kids, and the mother-in-law living with -- are an incredible example and role model.

    Parent

    Who knows what someone else's (3.50 / 2) (#52)
    by ThatOneVoter on Tue Feb 03, 2009 at 06:54:26 AM EST
    private  family life is like? I make no deductions at all from public appearances, one way or the other.

    Parent
    I've read Ebony over the years (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Cream City on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 06:32:05 PM EST
    and it always seems to have a lot of articles about love (and, obviously, about "black love")!  For that matter, just about any general-interest magazine I see has lots of articles about love.

    Love sells, so they love Valentine's Day. :-)

    Parent

    I celebrate February 15 (5.00 / 4) (#4)
    by Cream City on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 05:03:11 PM EST
    and my (cheap) spouse loves it, as he gets me half-price chocolates.  Still just as yummy.

    (Why February 15?  For more than a century now, American women in and interested in politics -- and thus our future -- have been partying on that day to celebrate the birthday of Susan B. Anthony.

    (I actually will be taking my chocolates with me to a celebration held for eons in the heartland, where hundreds of women including legislators, mayors, alders, DAs, and many others again will raise funds for scholarships here -- and for an annual check sent to the wonderful Susan B. Anthony home and historical site in Rochester, New York.)

    So I haven't even noticed February 14, ads for it, whatever.  But then, I do less tv and more books all the time.  :-)  So I'm missing ads to give me new ideas of what to get my spouse for SBA Day. . . .

    So a tip: If you forget to get (none / 0) (#30)
    by Cream City on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 06:33:30 PM EST
    chocolates or flowers or whatever on time, just be a feminist and celebrate the next day.  And save money, too.  Also a very feminist thing to do. :-)

    Parent
    Thank you for this reminder of Susan B's b'day-and (none / 0) (#56)
    by jawbone on Tue Feb 03, 2009 at 10:09:12 PM EST
    the rationalization for giving goodies on February 15th!

    Way cool!

    Parent

    It's "anything to keep the public (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by scribe on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 05:11:58 PM EST
    distracted from just how bad the markets are and where all that money's going".

    I mean, you should hear some of the Valentine's day commercials (directed at men) on sports-talk radio.  If they weren't insecure about their, um, performance before they hear the ad, they have every reason to be after.

    Is up the new down? (5.00 / 4) (#6)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 05:14:12 PM EST
    GOP wants mortgage relief, tax cuts in stimulus

    So, the Republicans are pressing for mortgage relief.

    "We need to fix housing first," [Sen. Mitch McConnell]said, and officials said the GOP was coalescing behind a proposal to have the federal government assume some of the risk inherent in mortgages. The goal was to have banks lower the interest rate to 4 percent or 4.5 percent on 30-year fixed rate loans for many primary residences, by directing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to buy the mortgages.


    They're (5.00 / 3) (#10)
    by NJDem on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 05:24:19 PM EST
    out Democrating the Democrats!

    Then again, it was McCain who talked about HOME/HOLC in that debate, and apparently even called HRC to learn more about it.  Topsy-turvy indeed...

    Parent

    Hahah (none / 0) (#13)
    by squeaky on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 05:27:01 PM EST
    If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you..

    Parent
    Well, (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by NJDem on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 05:36:35 PM EST
    I didn't say I believed them or thought them sincere, but they apparently are saying it.  You know how important perception is in politics...  

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#19)
    by squeaky on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 05:45:28 PM EST
    Bald face lies for the last eight years has really done a lot for the public's perception of GOPers.

    Parent
    It got W elected and (none / 0) (#43)
    by oldpro on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 10:02:28 PM EST
    reelected...same for Reagan and Nixon and a whole lot of other Rs who ought to be in jail.

    Parent
    Exactly My Point (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by squeaky on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 10:11:23 PM EST
    The public may be slow but they catch on. After eight years of BushCO, the public is done with that for awhile.

    As much as I would never underestimate the GOP I think that they have gotten so extreme that they will be unpopular for a long time. The plan for permanent GOP rule is toast. Almost 30 years of planning down the drain.

    Parent

    Which raises the question.... (none / 0) (#54)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 03, 2009 at 12:38:18 PM EST
    why in Hell is Obama courting them...telling the public they "have some good ideas?"

    He is undermining Democrats left and right.

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#9)
    by squeaky on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 05:20:35 PM EST
    McConnell boasts that:

    Most of my members believe that we could pass a very robust stimulus for less than the amount currently before us
    .

    But think progress points out:

    But McConnell's cheaper plan doesn't exist. Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) is pushing the Senate GOP's only alternative, "American Option: A Jobs Plan That Works." A new Wonk Room analysis finds that DeMint's plan will cost $3.1 trillion over ten years, more than 3.5 times the cost of Obama's:

    Ah yes the party where up means down and spending less always means spending more. It always amazes me how these guys do it with a straight face.


    Parent

    hey squeak.. (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by jedimom on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 05:43:49 PM EST
    hate to break it to you but Team Obamas plan will be MUCH bigger it has to be, housing is the root of the crisis, it is the underlying asset that keeps deflating creating the downdraw on the bank assets..CDO MBS CDS

    thus the need foe the DAMN HOLC ALREADY!!!! sorry that my thing the HOLC...

    But really this is Glen Hubbards plan, which he presented to Team Obama per swear in and which was recvd warmly by them

    expect to see something along these lines from Team Obama and totally agree NJ Dem WE should have been out there first

    the holdup is they are trying to pass Stimulus first, because once the public finds out the TARP TWO which WILL cover housing, is gonna be like another 3 trillion, well there will be a fight against spending of any kind after that and they know it...

    Parent

    Hear, hear! (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by NJDem on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 05:49:40 PM EST
    Not having someone push for HOLC was one of the reasons I was initially  hesitant about HRC accepting SOS.  Instead we have Dems pushing for tax cuts!?!  (shakes her head...)

    Parent
    Huh? (1.00 / 1) (#21)
    by squeaky on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 05:49:23 PM EST
    Hate to break it to me? Team Obama...

    Wow you sound so GOP..

    I am not under any illusion about Obama's fix, although I do know that the GOP reflexively lie, they cannot help themselves. That was all my comment was about. But if you love the GOP plan so much send McConnell and DeMint some campaign money. I am sure they could use it.


    Parent

    do I lol (5.00 / 3) (#26)
    by jedimom on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 06:21:28 PM EST
    I do,? Well I am newly moderate maybe thats why!

    I wont take you on squeaky I have seen you here lo these many moons :0)

    I am FULLY BEHIND HOLC which is WAAAY more PROGRESSIVE than this GOP shadow plan

    my point is HOUSING is JOB NUMBER ONE!!!

    Parent

    30 year 4.5% ? (none / 0) (#11)
    by Fabian on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 05:25:04 PM EST
    Sign me up!

    Oh, wait.  Using quasi government entities to buy up bad debt?  By buying the loans from.....who exactly?

    Homeowners?  Or not?

    Parent

    FAN FRED (none / 0) (#20)
    by jedimom on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 05:45:44 PM EST
    We already own FAN and FRED so the idea IIRC is that those GSEs will offer the morts and the GOP is NTO suggesting BUYIONG THEM, which I and Krugman and Hillary DO support, that would be a HOLC

    The GOP is saying INSURE thenm, like PMI/MIP insurance, the lender guarantees 50 the loss if defaults the govt the other half off morts offered by fan fred at the 4.5 rate...

    i DO want us to just buy the damn assets already thus the HOLC...

    Parent

    Can you post a glossary ... (5.00 / 3) (#35)
    by cymro on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 07:03:44 PM EST
    ... to indicate which of the words in your posts are acronyms and which are typos?

    Parent
    Funniest comment (5.00 / 3) (#38)
    by Anne on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 07:26:08 PM EST
    I've read in a long time.  Thanks for that!

    Parent
    I try not to speculate (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by Fabian on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 05:20:22 PM EST
    on people's relationships unless they are close kin.

    I find the tabloid obsession with romances, marriages, break ups and divorces to be bizarre.

    Even the couples who I think have strong relationships often have gone through very rough times together.  I don't mean "looking to each other for strength" instead I mean "wondering if the relationship would survive".    

    I personally hate the ... (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 06:54:26 PM EST
    way the press treats the presidency like a Soap Opera or Cliffhanger Serial.

    Will the President survive the oncoming train of ...?  Tune in next week and find out!

    Public officials are our servants, and should be covered more like "Consumer Reports" than "Soap Opera Digest."


    Parent

    Well the problem is it's been (none / 0) (#14)
    by SOS on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 05:27:36 PM EST
    packaged. Like an instruction manual.

    Right there all creativity and spontaneity and individuality goes out the window because what works for some doesn't work others.

     

    Parent

    Valentine's Day especially. (none / 0) (#51)
    by Fabian on Tue Feb 03, 2009 at 04:28:54 AM EST
    It turns out the best day to have a really nice dinner with your SO is NOT Feb 14 or the weekend before or after.  Restaurants are so busy they resemble fast food joints, turning over tables as fast as they can.  They often limit their menus as well.

    Ditto for Mother's Day.

    Parent

    HOLDER JUST CONFIRMED... (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by jedimom on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 05:40:25 PM EST
    Just now...

    Valentine's Day is on Saturday this year, maybe (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Angel on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 05:49:57 PM EST
    that has something to do with it.  Not sure how B & M could have anything to do with it.  I think it has more to do with just celebrating that you have someone to love, or that someone loves you, in this terrible economy.  I think people are looking for ways to celebrate the simple things in life such as having a good relationship with a significant other or your parents/family or co-workers.  

    Jeralyn, it's just ... (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 06:50:39 PM EST
    your imagination.

    Valentine's Day is always a "big deal."  Just a way businesses keep the capital flowing during the cold winter months.

    Keeps many a restaurant in the black during a potentially slow month like February.

    It's the first holiday marketing opportunity since (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by esmense on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 08:10:49 PM EST
    the disappointing Christmas season. It does seem like retailers are pushing the occasion even harder than usual. It's probably not reflective of increased romanticism as much as increased retailer desperation.

    Parent
    Past tense re restaurant industry (none / 0) (#36)
    by Cream City on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 07:22:02 PM EST
    as this year, it may only help those restaurants that haven't already closed, and only by a bit.

    Projections for the industry for this quarter, always the slowest, were so poor that a lot of them couldn't get the credit they need to make it through this season, just gave up, etc.  (My daughter in the industry was laid off in December, along with her entire shift; a list of recently closed ones in my major restaurant city is sad.)

    Parent

    Valentine's Day... (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by Anne on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 07:24:50 PM EST
    Another "holiday" supported and pushed by the greeting card, candy, restaurant, vacation, jewelry, major retail, and every other you-name-it industry.

    This is America, after all, land of the One-Day sale and home of the Big Box stores; all of these industries are hurting, and if they are pushing harder this year, maybe it's more an act of survival, than the giddiness of having an attractive couple in the White House who look like they might still "do it."

    I've been married for almost 29 years.  My Valentine goes out to the store and gets me the paper every Sunday, rain or shine.  He checks my oil and always fills my tank if he takes my car to run an errand.  He lets me sleep late on the weekend and never makes me feel guilty about it.  He irons his own clothes!  On my birthday he remembers some obscure thing I talked about 6 months earlier and gets it for me.  He shows me every day, in big ways and small, that he loves me; nothing from Hallmark or Godiva or the local jeweler will ever mean as much to me as all those little things.

    With all the problems before us as a nation, I am not looking to the White House for evidence of romance - I think I can handle that one on my own.  If the Obamas provide a role model for black couples, or any couples, if their commitment to each other and to their children provides inspiration, I think that's great.  But the presidency should not be fluffed up and glitterized and made into the stuff of Inside Edition and Entertainment Tonight or even, heaven forbid, TMZ.

    I'm just glad Obama is married and we don't have to suffer through "The Bachelor: Presidential Edition."  :-)

    Chicago tv news tonight is a hoot (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Cream City on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 09:18:59 PM EST
    as it tells us that the governor of the great state of Illinois now has met with the four other top state officials -- for the first time since 2003.  Repeat, six years ago.

    Pat Quinn treks to DC tomorrow to meet with Illinois' Congressional delegation, too.  No word on just how long it had been since Blago did so.

    I just wish I didn't have this feeling, based on long experience watching and reading Chicago news, that this guy is too good to be true, too.  Or if he is the first good and honest pol in Illinois in eons, trying to stay that way in the political cesspool will give him a nervous breakdown.


    DNA Animation (none / 0) (#3)
    by squeaky on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 05:02:24 PM EST
    Just saw this amazing youtube of DNA doing its thing. A must see, imo, if you are the least bit interested in biology or just really beautiful imagery.  Also for artists lots of great material, imo.

    DNA Coiling, Replication, Transcription and Translation via robotwisdom


    I think Valentine's is the 2nd or 3rrd (none / 0) (#12)
    by ThatOneVoter on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 05:26:04 PM EST
    biggest celebration of the year now, with Halloween the other big one.
    THat's been the case for a few years.

    Ahhhh Romance (none / 0) (#25)
    by SOS on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 06:02:00 PM EST
    oh noes..socialists reject socialism.... (none / 0) (#27)
    by jedimom on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 06:29:20 PM EST
    Sarkozy says No to Obama style plan despite 2 million protestors..

    Intl Herald Trib

    here is the plan the French are going with instead which kinda sounds like what OUR plan was SUPPOSED to be:

    The government would spend €400 million on road building and renovation, €300 million on railroads, and €170 million on ports and river infrastructure. It would spend €731 million on universities and research centers and €620 million to renovate prisons, courts and more than 70 monuments and 50 cathedrals.

    their unions want a plan like ours:

    "It would be irresponsible to chose another policy, which would increase our country's indebtedness without having more infrastructure and increased competitiveness in the end," Fillon said in a speech in Lyon.

    More than 1.1 million people took to the streets across France last Thursday, according to the Interior Ministry, with unions putting the number of protesters at 2.5 million, to call on President Nicolas Sarkozy to stop cutting government jobs, increase the minimum wage and spend more on households as the economy enters its first recession since 1993.

    Opponents of the government have been calling for an "Obama-style" stimulus plan, one that puts money directly into the pockets of working people.



    their model (none / 0) (#28)
    by jedimom on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 06:31:00 PM EST
    okay I like their model better, who is the socialist here? if it is us, then I want to not be one, if it is them, then sign us up :0)

    prisons, museums, roads, bridges,. waterworks! they have it all going on in their bill!!!

    Parent

    Re: Valentines Day (none / 0) (#32)
    by NJDem on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 06:52:02 PM EST
    (or the day of forced sentimentality, as I call it) I think it just feels bigger this year, just as X-Mas always does.  I see it more about the growing commercialism of our consumer culture--any excuse to make us spend more money.  The holiday falling on Saturday may also be a factor.

    By the way Jeralyn, I anxiously await your Bachelor interview! I may be one of the only one here who still watches it--though I was rooting for Jason last season :)  [can you believe DeAnna returns this season to win him back!?!]

    she won't win him back (none / 0) (#39)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 07:49:08 PM EST
    it's a promo ploy (I hope.) I don't see much in Jason, he's way to straight-looking and cleancut for me. Kind of a dull guy too. I prefer Jesse types.

    And I bet we are the only two who watch. But last week, 10 million people did, the shows ratings are up this year.

    Ok, I'm going to post the Jesse interview now. Hope you'll comment there after the show!

    Parent

    While I agree Michele and Barak are (none / 0) (#34)
    by hairspray on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 07:01:10 PM EST
    a handsome couple, I think Valentine's Day is simply a way to gin up the spending in a slow month.  After all the white sales are over in January and March and Easter (Spring, etc) are a little way off so I see the reasoning. Ahhh! Capitalistic cleverness.

    So Gregg is in for Commerce Sec (none / 0) (#42)
    by NJDem on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 09:33:43 PM EST
    Wonderful. A cabinet that is almost 1/3rd (none / 0) (#44)
    by tigercourse on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 10:10:58 PM EST
    Republican.

    Parent
    I't's like (5.00 / 0) (#46)
    by NJDem on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 10:20:44 PM EST
    we get it, you want to work with Republicans.  Enough already...

    Parent
    But (1.00 / 2) (#47)
    by squeaky on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 10:34:02 PM EST
    You were just saying that DeMint, and McConnell et al, aka the GOP has a better Stimuus plan than Obama.
    They're (5.00 / 4) (#10)
    by NJDem on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 05:24:19 PM EST
    out Democrating the Democrats!

    Therefore you are for them, no?

    Parent

    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by NJDem on Tue Feb 03, 2009 at 07:11:32 AM EST
    you caught me sqeaky, I'm actually right-winger in disguise!  Focusing on the mortgage-issue just happens to be the right plan--one I wish the Dems were trumpeting.  

    And where did I say they had a better plan?  My "out Democrating the Democrats!" line was clearly a play on the accusation that Clinton was out Republicing the Republicans.  

    Jeez, stop trying to start fights.  

    Parent

    Start Fights? (none / 0) (#55)
    by squeaky on Tue Feb 03, 2009 at 01:39:18 PM EST
    Hardly starting a fight but responding to your supporting crap from one of the worst liars in congress DeMint and McConnell. And if you are not supporting it, than you have no business comparing it to Obama's plan unless you are just trolling.

    Parent
    I Support This (none / 0) (#48)
    by squeaky on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 11:30:40 PM EST
    CENTCOM commander Gen. David Petraeus, supported by Defence Secretary Robert Gates, tried to convince President Barack Obama that he had to back down from his campaign pledge to withdraw all U.S. combat troops from Iraq within 16 months at an Oval Office meeting Jan. 21.

    But Obama informed Gates, Petraeus and Joint Chiefs Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen that he wasn't convinced and that he wanted Gates and the military leaders to come back quickly with a detailed 16-month plan, according to two sources who have talked with participants in the meeting.

    via digby

    The military has to be reigned in. They always want more than they are entitled to have. That iis why a civilian aka Obama is in charge of them.

    Correction (none / 0) (#49)
    by squeaky on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 11:32:07 PM EST
    via dday

    Parent