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Saturday Afternoon Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sat May 08, 2010 at 01:13:07 PM EST
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    Saturday Afternoon Open Thread | 46 comments (46 topical)

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    Young People Stuggling in Recession (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 08, 2010 at 02:32:23 PM EST
    The latest Allstate/National Journal Heartland Monitor survey on the economic experiences and attitudes of young adults found that large numbers are struggling through the most severe economic downturn since the Great Depression.

    Just one-sixth of the Millennials surveyed say they are earning enough to live comfortably. A significant number -- whether living on their own or not -- report that they still rely on financial help from their parents. link

    Political ramifications reported.

    Young Voters Disenchanted With Politics - And Obama

    Class of 2010, meet the competition: the Class of 2009. "It's discouraging right now," says 24-year-old Matt Grant, who graduated 10 months ago from Ohio State University with a degree in civil engineering and three internships. He finally has a job--as a banquet waiter at a Clarion Inn near Akron. Grant has applied for more than 100 engineering positions around the country. "It's getting closer to the Class of 2010 ," Grant says. "I'm starting to worry more."
    ...
    The party's lead among younger voters already has dropped sharply. While in 2008 Democrats held a 62-percent-to-30-percent advantage over Republicans among "millennials" born after 1980, that 32-point margin shrank by the end of March to 18. Then, 55 percent leaned Democratic, vs. 37 percent Republican, according to polls conducted by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press from October 2009 to March 2010.

    The young are also growing alienated by politics in general--and Obama in particular. Interest in voting has dropped faster among the under-30 set than any other age group. In March, only 44 percent of registered voters under 30 said they were "absolutely certain" to vote this year, vs. 78 percent in June 2008, according to Pew polls. Some of the disillusionment extends to the President. "I was inspired by how he was talking about creating new jobs," says Grant, who voted for Obama in 2008 but is unsure how he will vote this fall. "I guess it takes a lot to get things changed."



    So, after (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by JamesTX on Sat May 08, 2010 at 02:45:35 PM EST
    three decades of trickle down and Republican service to the rich, the working class is finally actual feeling the results of what they have done to themselves with their careless and foolish politics. No wonder the Republicans let is win the election. The blame goes to whoever is currently in office. The cause is deeply rooted in Reaganomics.

    Parent
    While I agree that we are experiencing (5.00 / 4) (#5)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 08, 2010 at 03:36:31 PM EST
    the effects of decades of trickle down economics, I do not think that the Democrats are blameless.

    IMO the Dems made a big mistake by not forcing through a much larger stimulus package. The party would have been better served by Obama publicly banging some conservative Dems heads and Dems fighting full force against the Republicans for job creation programs. I think that not only would the results have been better economically but it would have provided the appearance that the party was champions of main street.

    All the focus on deficit reduction with our economy in such poor shape is misguided. Also, the Dems have become very adapt in catering to corporate interests in exchange for campaign contributions.  

     

    Parent

    What Democrats? I don't see any. (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by observed on Sat May 08, 2010 at 03:43:31 PM EST


    Parent
    The Democrats blew it 30 years ago when they (5.00 / 3) (#10)
    by esmense on Sat May 08, 2010 at 04:37:48 PM EST
    refused to effectively counter, in fact actually and erroneously agreed with, the Republican's argument that progressive taxation is a transfer of wealth between individuals -- from the "productive" to the "unproductive" -- when in fact, progressive taxation allows for a broad transfer of wealth and resources between generations (a transfer that the whole economy and society benefit from).

    The millenials are the first generation to feel, with the exception of those who have inherited significant wealth and assets from their families, the full effect of that tragic misunderstanding.

    But how likely are we to correct it now? The older people who are most likely to vote still don't understand that the "unproductive" people who they've been encouraged to resent seeing "their" tax dollars spent on are their grandchildren.
     

    Parent

    The message of movie (none / 0) (#12)
    by JamesTX on Sat May 08, 2010 at 05:00:09 PM EST
    ...the Boy in the Striped Pajamas

    Parent
    It's the energy policy that hurts more. (none / 0) (#15)
    by observed on Sat May 08, 2010 at 05:19:13 PM EST
    It's hard to believe today, but Reagan's cabinet was actually MUCH loonier than W.'s
    He had Stockman, and Watt, the interior secretary who thought it was man's DUTY to use up all the world's resources before the 2nd coming.
    I think Stockman was one of those people who believed in the "infinite resources" theory.
    Reagan, of course, was senile, batty as a loon, had to be talked to using cartoons, and in his 2nd term, muttered "Klaatu, Klaatu" as he walked around the White House.

    "Drill, baby drill" is the Reagan policy, along with "Conservation is unAmerican".

    Bush was a horrible incompetent, but Reagan is the President whose policies have sunk us.


    Parent

    These are first-time voters (1.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Cream City on Sat May 08, 2010 at 03:08:58 PM EST
    or second-time voters at most.

    You seem to be replying to a comment that isn't here.  Focus.

    Parent

    yes, but (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by JamesTX on Sat May 08, 2010 at 04:22:41 PM EST
    they swallowed their parents ideology full and still believe it as if it were fact. This class of people have punished Democrats so severely over the last thirty years that they are afraid to support anything in the interest of the people over the rich. It has been a sure bet for political suicide for three decades. Why do you think they are afraid to be Democrats? Ten years ago they were talking as if we were enemies of the state. Our ideas were seen as tyrannical. Any pol who even hinted in the direction was going home at the next election (or sooner).

    I am addressing all of us who aren't in the top income brackets (I am among them):

    Where are the corporations that were going to save them if only we relieved them of their tax burden?

    Why aren't they all the self-made moguls that their moral work ethic would ensure if only they could end entitlements for Black mothers on welfare?

    Where are the benefits of making sure their is no functioning government mechanism to help the people other than transferring huge blocks of cash to banks and investment firms who are no longer regulated on what they do with that money (so we could all be self-made moguls)?

    Where is the "magic of the market"? Why can't the market find us job?

    Where are the rich who would surely return the favor of unquestioned loyalty?

    Where is the invisible hand of the deity in the market?

    Why is it important for people to have civil rights in the face of authority when wealth can simply insulate them from government action?

    Parent

    No, that is a sweeping overgeneralization (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by Cream City on Sat May 08, 2010 at 05:01:44 PM EST
    as I am a parent to some of them and know many more of them.  Many were not raised by Republicans, believe me.

    So what they swallowed was what Obama promised them in 2008 -- and in that, they are no different from many older voters who had the experience to know better about a pol's promises.

    But experience did not matter for candidates or for voters, it seems.

    Bottom line:  Do not dismiss these young voters, if you want them back -- as Dems or even as voters.  A sadly disillusioned generation can be a dangerous thing.

    Parent

    No, they certainly (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by JamesTX on Sat May 08, 2010 at 09:21:58 PM EST
    should never be dismissed. Political apathy and ignorance is the name of the game. It is the weakness which others exploit. Those who willingly participate in apathy are signing their own death warrants. The "boycott politics" attitude is a hallmark of Gen x -- I believe -- if I recall correctly this is the generation that was apolitical because it was bored with the "fakeness" of politics? Now they are threatening apathy again? As if apathy is a solution? They need to be told different. That's like the prey being chased by a lion saying "Oh, spare me the boredom of all this. I'm tired of this game. I don't think I care about this contest anymore. I'll just listen to my sounds and get the latest phone gadget. That's real." The underlying problem is that they assume their current status is a given. They can just "boycott politics" and everything will stay the same for them? I don't think that's how it works. Their apathy is now cutting into their lifestyles and their prospects for remaining at any level of comfort and prosperity recognizable to the developed world. It's also cutting into everyone else's. They are part of the population that has a responsibility to participate in the leadership of this country, and this country is bad sick. That should be the message they hear.

    Parent
    You're mixing up generations (none / 0) (#36)
    by Cream City on Sat May 08, 2010 at 10:58:20 PM EST
    as Gen X was at least two ago.

    So with that basic mixup, the rest is too much to unravel here.

    Parent

    whoever they are (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by JamesTX on Sun May 09, 2010 at 02:19:13 AM EST
    -- and it really doesn't matter because all of them after the 60s and 70s were either hell-bent conservative or completely unconcerned and apathetic -- apathy is a really nonsensical option. I don't get it. There may have been a time when apathy served the needs of (and was financed by) the conservative revolution and people could be bought off with short-term fake comfort and gadgets, but that is all gone now. Turning away from politics is turning into the desert with no water. There is no place left to be "unconcerned" unless you are part of the ruling class.

    I am sorry I am hard to unravel (and obviously you think very confused) but I did predict all this and my categories seem to hold up well in making those predictions!

    Parent

    there is a (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by CST on Sun May 09, 2010 at 12:23:39 PM EST
    pretty big difference btwn Gen X and young ppl today - Gen X is now in their 40s which is a very different stage of life and politics and personality.  The generation after Gen X I would hardly classify as "hell-bent conservative or completely unconcerned and apathetic" - perhaps apathy is still a problem but Gen Y is still significantly to the left of Gen X on a lot of issues.  Plus there are so many more Gen Y in sheer numbers that the political impact made over time will be greater regardless.

    Political apathy may be a problem to an extent but I don't think young people today are apathetic in general.  Mostly for the reasons you mention, they can't afford to be.  Certainly disheartened and disenchanted though.

    Parent

    where (none / 0) (#47)
    by JamesTX on Sun May 09, 2010 at 12:53:07 PM EST
    exactly, I ask myself, have all those decades disappeared to? I certainly hope they are disheartened and disenchanted, but I hope they don't fall for a neo-neo-conservative "solution", because that will be the end of us all!

    Parent
    I think we were in our mid 40's (none / 0) (#30)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat May 08, 2010 at 09:27:27 PM EST
    before this didn't apply to us. Of course we didn't have parents willing/able to fall back on, either.

    Just one-sixth of the Millennials surveyed say they are earning enough to live comfortably

    Maybe the starter jobs and starter homes prior to 2008 and after the mid 90's have raised expectations to a false level.

    Parent

    Depends on the definition of (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat May 08, 2010 at 09:40:05 PM EST
    "comfortably."  When I graduated from college with just your average BA degree, entry-level professional salaries even in lowly public service jobs like I had were plenty to rent a 4-room apartment in one of the less expensive Boston suburbs with no roommate, buy an inexpensive car, even go somewhere for a few days on vacation once in a while.  I watched my expenses and wasn't rolling in money, but I was certainly comfortable by the standards of a 22-year-old just starting adult life.

    20 years later, entry-level jobs of that kind weren't paying enough for young people to afford an apartment without sharing it with two or three roomates and doing a lot of scrimping.  Now, that's not exactly hardship, but it's not "comfortably" by U.S. standards.

    Parent

    What are you talking about? (none / 0) (#31)
    by observed on Sat May 08, 2010 at 09:32:03 PM EST
    Earning power for the middle class has been going down for 40 years. What "false expectations" do you mean?

    Parent
    Good point. (none / 0) (#37)
    by Cream City on Sat May 08, 2010 at 10:59:38 PM EST
    The problem for those of their parents who were working class and voted Republican was false aspirations.

    Parent
    saw two movies (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by jondee on Sat May 08, 2010 at 04:10:47 PM EST
    last night that I'd highly recommend: An Education, with Carey Mulligan continuing beautifully the great English tradition of quirky, knowing, many-layered performances by young actresses ala the Redgraves and so many others..And Facing Ali, which is by far, the most poignant film about boxing I've seen: tracing the history of Ali's roller coaster career in the sixties and seventies as seen through the thoughtful, world weary, eyes of those who "lived to tell the tale" (and with most, fighting Ali was the least of it)..George Chuvalo, Ernie Terrell, Henry Cooper, George Foreman, Ron Lyell and others. In particular, if George Chuvalo's first-person account of the perdition that his post-boxing life became for years, dosnt break your heart, you just dont have one. Great film.
       

    I agree on the actor in "An Education", (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by KeysDan on Sat May 08, 2010 at 04:49:44 PM EST
    Carey Muligan was very good, as were Peter Sarsgaard and Alfred Molina, but I am not sure about the movie---Spoilers Alert--it went well until the gas station scene when that snazzy car took on gas but the story seemed to run out of it, taking me off a cliff.  

    Parent
    Just got my "official" survey from (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by Anne on Sat May 08, 2010 at 04:15:07 PM EST
    the DNC, and did not allow myself to be boxed in to the choices they decided I should be selecting from.

    There was a list of 13 things I was to rate in order of priority.  I wrote in this nice white space: "Gender issues should have been on this list.  Reproductive rights should have been on this list.  Campaign finance reform should have been on this list.  Health CARE should have been on this list (I know the party thinks it has solved the problems, but all they've done is make health insurance an obligation - we still have no guarantee of affordable and accessible CARE)."

    The survey wanted to know what the priorities of the party should be.  The choices were things like raising money, electing more Democrats to local office, grassroots organization, re-electing Obama.  My suggestion, once again written in the white space next to the question?  "Try listening to the voters; the party isn't doing that anymore.  Once it does, all these other problems will take care of themselves."

    What did I think of the Democratic party and President Obama?  "I no longer recognize the Democratic party as it has been made over to accommodate the president; long-standing Democratic vision and philosophy have been abandoned in favor of Republican-lite policy and right-of-center ideology.  The Democratic party no longer represents the people; it represents the interests of corporate America.  Maybe if I had "Inc." after my name, or hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend, the Democratic party would acknowledge my concerns, but I don't and it doesn't."

    Won't I consider a donation?  "Hell, no; not one thin dime."

    Well done (none / 0) (#43)
    by lilburro on Sun May 09, 2010 at 12:44:11 AM EST
    I may not agree with you 100% of the time, but I find it hard to believe I would've filled out the survey differently.

    Parent
    BP Effort To Use Dome (5.00 / 0) (#18)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 08, 2010 at 06:20:25 PM EST
    To Contain Oil Disaster Fails

    Efforts to contain the Deepwater Horizon oil gusher with a 100-ton, four-story concrete-and-steel box have failed, BP officials announced. The giant box, known as a cofferdam, was lowered onto the leaking wellhead yesterday, with the intent of pumping the leaking oil up a pipe to the sea surface a mile above. However, BP Chief Operating Officer Doug Suttles announced in a press briefing this afternoon that the dome effort failed. After the cofferdam was lowered onto the leak site, a slurry of methane crystals formed on the inside of the dome's surface, making it bouyant and clogging the outtake at the dome's roof.
    This is a tragedy on top of a tragedy. (none / 0) (#21)
    by KeysDan on Sat May 08, 2010 at 07:08:17 PM EST
    Earlier in the day, it seemed promising. Even though BP executive officer Hayward and Coast Guard Admiral Mary Landry (who seems to be the Dana Perino of the spill) have, as they term it, been "managing expectations". Perhaps, the engineers will be able to overcome the crystal formation with heat, or find some other interim solution.  Relief wells will take up to three months.

    Parent
    Thick blobs of tar (none / 0) (#23)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 08, 2010 at 07:22:21 PM EST
    have begun to  wash up on Alabama's white sand beaches. link

    Parent
    We may realize a transformation (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by KeysDan on Sat May 08, 2010 at 08:17:29 PM EST
    of the Gulf into a "Black Sea".  Good thing BP, Transocean and Haliburton are corporations and not nations  who destroyed so much of our country or we would declare war on them..

    Parent
    FWIW (none / 0) (#34)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat May 08, 2010 at 09:45:59 PM EST
    I saw that press conference, and the BP guy specifically declined to say it had failed when asked if it had.  The crystal formation is a problem even I had read about beforehand, so it's not exactly a surprise that it happened.

    Although he didn't sound terribly confident (the COO who made the announcement is a very low-key, no drama guy), he did say they had several things they were going to try and that they definitely hadn't given up on it.

    Thinkprogress should cut the crap and report it straight.

    Parent

    Even though it's never been done before... (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Edger on Sat May 08, 2010 at 07:01:00 PM EST
    maybe if the E.E.C. tried lowering a hastily built 100 ton containment container down on top of the leak at 85 Broad Street in New York things might settle down?

    Europe races to erect crisis defences:

    BRUSSELS (AFP) - European leaders dramatically pulled out on Saturday of World War II commemorations in Moscow as they worked overtime to erect new crisis defences before Asian markets reopen.

    Seeking a "watertight" defence against predatory threats to banks and wider economic recovery, EU officials scrambled to fix the size and scope of a crisis fund that may well outstrip the unprecedented Greek bailout, due to be transferred to Athens within days.

    French President Nicolas Sarkozy cancelled his trip to Russia to pull strings on the financial crisis, the Elysee said, with Italy's ANSA reporting that Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi had also withdrawn from Sunday's Red Square parade.
    Well (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by squeaky on Sat May 08, 2010 at 07:13:57 PM EST
    If only Richard Serra and Claes Oldenberg would collaborate we would have a 100 ton leek container.

    Parent
    Eduardo Chillida: (none / 0) (#24)
    by oculus on Sat May 08, 2010 at 07:35:17 PM EST
    link

    Parent
    Different Animal (none / 0) (#39)
    by squeaky on Sat May 08, 2010 at 11:45:50 PM EST
    Serra's cubes are on an entirely different scale.. as are Oldenberg's sculptures...

    BTW Richard Serra's bro is the famous lawyer Tony Serra.

    Hard to tell who is more famous though....

    RIchard Serra on Charlie Rose

    Parent

    Check out the "Elogi de l'aig" (none / 0) (#42)
    by oculus on Sun May 09, 2010 at 12:39:22 AM EST
    in Barcelona.  Photo doesn't do it justice.link

    Parent
    The Lion in Winter (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by andgarden on Sat May 08, 2010 at 08:46:53 PM EST
    is on TCM. Every time I watch it, I'm convinced that it's the best movie ever made. And if it isn't, it's close.

    What a cast:

    Peter O'Toole     ...    Henry II

    Katharine Hepburn     ...    Eleanor of Aquitaine

    Anthony Hopkins     ...    Richard

    Timothy Dalton ...    King Philip of France

    I'm with you andgarden (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by ruffian on Sat May 08, 2010 at 09:42:44 PM EST
    And it succeeds on the power of the writing and the performances. No big plot twists, effects, or even scenery, but spellbinding nonetheless. Characters interacting - imagine that!

    Parent
    It's Chinatown, Jake. (none / 0) (#27)
    by observed on Sat May 08, 2010 at 08:55:47 PM EST


    Parent
    YES! (none / 0) (#1)
    by nycstray on Sat May 08, 2010 at 02:03:43 PM EST
    Looks like I'm going to get the Yanks game on Fox! {Fingers crossed we don't end up with the Phillies game . . . .}

    Senator Bob Bennett (R-UT) (none / 0) (#14)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 08, 2010 at 05:12:32 PM EST
    loses re-election bid at state convention

    The tea party defeated conservative Senator Bob Bennett (R-UT) at today's Utah Republican Party state convention. Bennett is the first Senator to lose in a primary this year. link
    I would think that Senator Bennett would be (none / 0) (#17)
    by KeysDan on Sat May 08, 2010 at 06:17:32 PM EST
    hard to beat with his long-time Utah and Republican bona fides. Married to a granddaughter of David O. McKay, 9th president of LDS, head of a PR firm that was CIA friendly, handled work for Nixon's re-election (hiring Howard Hunt), and managing accounts for Howard Hughes. His voting record is gold-plated reactionary, including recent votes such as an amendment to the Heath Care Reconciliation Act to suspend issuance of marriage licenses to same sex couples in D.C. until a referendum could be held, and his sole vote of any party on the Homeland Security Committee to oppose domestic partnership benefits to federal employees who are gay.  Maybe a teapartier  with a memory caught his apparent lapse when, in 2006, he voted against the flag desecration amendment and that helped do him in.   I know things can always get worse, but this a case of taking the devil I do not know rather than the one I do.

    Parent
    He came in 3rd. (none / 0) (#19)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 08, 2010 at 06:25:36 PM EST
    Utah has an unusual nominating process for their Senate seats. Caucuses choose 3,500 delegates for the state convention, and those delegates then get to decide who becomes the nominee of the party.
    ...
    This was actually the expected outcome. Conservative activists, who dominate the roster of delegates, were angry with Bennett over his vote for TARP, and his sponsorship of the Wyden-Bennett health care bill. Given that Wyden-Bennett never got the time of day in Washington, it's simply amazing that this was held against Bennett, who has one of the most conservative voting records there is. link


    Parent
    USDA: 40.5 Million On Food Stamps (none / 0) (#16)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 08, 2010 at 06:00:46 PM EST
    Expected By End of Year

    The Agriculture Department said 39.68 million people, or 1 in 8 Americans, were enrolled for food stamps during February, an increase of 260,000 from January. USDA updated its figures on Wednesday.
    ..."Research suggests that one in three eligible people are not receiving ... benefits."
    ...
    Enrollment has set a record each month since reaching 31.78 million in December 2008. USDA estimates enrollment will average 40.5 million people this fiscal year, which ends Sept 30, at a cost of up to $59 billion. For fiscal 2011, average enrollment is forecast for 43.3 million people.
    I may have read too many sci-fi books. (none / 0) (#28)
    by observed on Sat May 08, 2010 at 09:02:03 PM EST
    It's hard to have an accurate count, but I've probably read 2000 or so.
    I just re-read one that I didn't remember.
    Actually I thought it was familiar, but I wasn't sure until the very end. Pretty good book, anyway.
    Some 600 page books are more memorable than others, though.
    I read some  thrillers, and man, are most of them lightweight. They're fast reads, and don't have much worth remembering.
    I've read a few James Rollins books. He has some interesting ideas, but I think his writing---which wasn't much to start with---has gotten worse as he's written more books.
    Still, it's hard not to like a writer whose real name is Tschaikowski!
    Reading Elizabeth George's latest (none / 0) (#35)
    by ruffian on Sat May 08, 2010 at 09:46:34 PM EST
    Inspector Lynley mystery which I happily stumbled  on at Costco today.  My favorite escapism, even though this one might be a bit too real.

    I am in the library queque fora (none / 0) (#40)
    by oculus on Sun May 09, 2010 at 12:34:30 AM EST
    the Elizabeth George mystery and can't wait to read it.  In the meantime, I just started Paul Theroux's latest novel.  Terrific so far.

    Parent
    Got the Eliz. George book (none / 0) (#48)
    by caseyOR on Sun May 09, 2010 at 06:23:17 PM EST
    from the library last Wednesday. Returned it yesterday. I won't spoil anything for you, but expect the usual very good read. If your only exposure to the Inspector Lynley mysteries has been the PBS series, read the books. They are a whole different world and so much better. I've read all the Lynley books. The writing, the plotting, the characters all get better with every book.

     For my money, the best mystery writers publishing today are Elizabeth George, Sara Paretsky (V.I. Warshawsky mysteries) and Ian Rankin (Inspector Rebus mysteries and anything else he writes).

    Parent

    Age Of Consent (none / 0) (#45)
    by squeaky on Sun May 09, 2010 at 12:06:20 PM EST
    Strange that the youngest age of consent is Vatican State:

    There is an equal age of consent set at 12 years of age in Art. 331 (1).[35][36][37] When there is a relationship of dependence (like teacher/student, etc.) the age of consent is 15 years in Art. 331 (2).[35][37]

    I guess that explains the Pope's apologetic stance for the Priests who have been accused of sex crimes.


    Saturday Afternoon Open Thread | 46 comments (46 topical)

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