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    the best quote (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 05:06:04 PM EST
    from the Touchdown Jesus story:

    "I can't believe Jesus was struck," said his brother, who noted the giant Hustler Hollywood sign for the adult store across the street was untouched. "It's the last thing I expected to happen."


    Yes (none / 0) (#2)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 05:10:00 PM EST
    Even god likes pron...

    Parent
    I only wish (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 05:14:53 PM EST
    I could have made it there with a couple of friends to be shot in the timeless YMCA pose

    Parent
    Here's another good quote, alhough (none / 0) (#17)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 05:55:25 PM EST
    unrelated to touchdown Jesus:  Jerry Brown

    Asked Tuesday if he regretted the remarks, Brown said: "I'll tell you this, jogging in the hills with sweaty strangers will no longer result in conversations. Mums the word."

    P.S. The sweaty stranger was a blogger!

    Parent

    Ha. Did you see my recommend for (none / 0) (#32)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 07:39:05 PM EST
    Bowers Museum?

    Parent
    brown has been in politics (none / 0) (#73)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 09:53:10 PM EST
    Since Touchdown Jesus was a child, and he is still comparing things to the Nazis? Shouldn't that be rule number 1?

    Parent
    Jesus' brother? That's still pretty (none / 0) (#3)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 05:14:10 PM EST
    contraversial.  

    Parent
    Link: (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 05:18:17 PM EST
    James (none / 0) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 06:53:57 PM EST
    was his half brother.

    Parent
    "Half" (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by MKS on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 07:33:10 PM EST
    Depends on who you ask....Catholics would say step brother or cousin--because Mary could have no other children and was perpetually a virgin.....Others would say brother without qualification.....Protestants would say half-brother.

    The issue was about the provenance of the "James ossuary".....Latest:  the ossuary is authentic and perhaps part of the inscription....The Israelis think the whole thing bogus.

    James was acknowledged by Josephus as the leader of the new Christian religion in Jerusalem.

    Parent

    I recently learned some (maybe (none / 0) (#81)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 01:08:48 AM EST
    all) Catholics refer to Joseph as the adoptive father of Jesus.  This would be big news in Lutheranism.

    Parent
    And you know this how? (none / 0) (#37)
    by Molly Bloom on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 07:57:33 PM EST
    By going to church (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 07:27:08 AM EST
    and reading listening...

    And yes, I know it is a matter of faith.

    Similar to "Hope and Change."

    I pray that it works out better.

    Parent

    Brit. PM apologizes, (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by caseyOR on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 05:44:50 PM EST
    38 years after the fact, for the Bloody Sunday massacre in Derry, Northern Ireland.

    Twelve years ago, as part of the Irish peace process, Tony Blair appointed the Saville Commission to investigate the events of Bloody Sunday. The IRA and Catholics had long insisted that the British army fired upon and killed unarmed protesters that day. The 13 deaths that occurred that day sparked the decades long bloodbath in Northern Ireland known as "The Troubles." Things were bad prior to Bloody Sunday, but the events of that sad day set everything afire.

    The Saville Commission report found that the army did, in fact, fire upon and kill unarmed protesters without provocation. The question now is will the soldiers responsible face prosecution?

    My Irish Catholic family followed The Troubles very closely. We are still not all that fond of the Brits.

    Have you seen "Wind that Shakes (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 06:04:27 PM EST
    the Barley"?  Warning:  violent.  

    imdb

    Parent

    Walked out part way through (none / 0) (#20)
    by caseyOR on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 06:14:55 PM EST
    that movie. I couldn't sit there and take in all the violence. It is only the second movie I have ever walked out on. The other was the, IMO, gawd-awful Mrs. Soffel, starring Diane Keaton and Mel Gibson. That one wasn't too violent; it was simply too stupid.

    Parent
    I had more trouble understanding (none / 0) (#22)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 06:26:44 PM EST
    the accents than with the violence.  Did walk out of "Comfort of Strangers" because of violence though.  Usually I don't go to violent movies.  "Casino" being an exception.

    Parent
    WSWS review of The Wind That Shakes the Barley (none / 0) (#71)
    by Andreas on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 09:49:36 PM EST
    The Wind That Shakes the Barley, directed by Ken Loach, written by Paul Laverty

    A patchwork, but no bigger picture
    By Paul Bond, 11 October 2006


    Parent

    I dont know about (none / 0) (#134)
    by jondee on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 10:36:40 PM EST
    the film, but it's a beautiful song..

    Enough to make this Slav get in touch with his inner Irishman every time.

    Parent

    The membership of the (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 06:57:34 PM EST
    Presidential Commission on the Gulf Oil Blow, announced May 17, has been completed.  In addition to the co-chairs, Bob Graham and Bill Reilly, the members include: Fran Ullmer, UAlaska/Anchorage Chancellor; Cherry Murray, dean of Harvard School of Engineering, Terry Garcia, exec vp for mission programs at the National Geographic Society and former assist sec/general counsel of NOAA; Donald Boesch, President, U of Maryland Center for Environmental Science, and Frances Beinecke, Pres, Natural Resources Defense Council.  The Commission will have subpoena power and will hold public hearings.  A report that examines the causes of the blow and makes recommendations is due in six months. The government estimates of oil gushing into the sea has, once again, been dramatically increased to between 35,000 and 60,000 barrels. Although, BP is capturing about 15,000 barrels, they say.

    I've pretty much (5.00 / 4) (#79)
    by NYShooter on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 11:43:45 PM EST
    stayed out of the BP debacle because I figured that Obama knows at least as much as we do regarding all the things he could have and "should" have done, and I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. But as more and more things are coming out it's beginning to look as the old "deer caught in the headlights" is rising to the head of the line as the most plausible explanation of the President's unfortunate handling of this crisis.

    Of the many, many suggestions put out by countries familiar with these types of ruptures one stands out for me and almost defies rational explanation. The Saudis have handled some of the most mammoth spills successfully and have offered us their assistance. (and, to my knowledge were declined)

    They own an armada of Super Tankers & Super Barges, all equipped with gigantic suction devices. Without getting into the technical details I'm sure you can visualize the procedure. They just line up in a long, long convoy, and suck & store the oil in one operation. but the reason given for turning them down is even more bizarre. It seems we have a law that prohibits foreign built vessels from operating in our waters for this kind of thing. They explained that it was a union demand to trade prohibition for cooperation.

    Now don't tell me that this disaster isn't of a magnitude large enough to declare some kind of emergency and just ram it through.

    So many good ideas, a President appearing paralyzed, and a situation rapidly spinning out of control. Panic is in the air; Oy vey.


    You and I agreeing... (5.00 / 2) (#92)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 07:44:39 AM EST
    Wow.

    Parent
    If ramming it through means (none / 0) (#111)
    by christinep on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 02:17:38 PM EST
    martial law or variations thereof, yoiks! Most environmental legislation have emergency provisions. That is a bit different from suspension of law. So, I'm guessing you meant using the applicable emergency provisions of existing law if possible?

    Parent
    No, of course not. (none / 0) (#130)
    by NYShooter on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 10:07:40 PM EST
    No martial law; just arrest the CEO's family (children included) and make them watch Happy Days & eat nothing but Subay take outs until the problem is fixed. And if that doesn't work, NO Starbucks!

    Torture works!

    Parent

    I second that. (none / 0) (#132)
    by christinep on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 10:16:11 PM EST
    Another missed opportunity (5.00 / 4) (#94)
    by mmc9431 on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 08:23:44 AM EST
    Just as with the financial crisis and HCR, the Obama administration continues to be reluctant to seize the moment.

    If ever there was a time to drag the country forward on energy, this is the time. Rather than offering anything bold or innovative, he chose to lament on how we've continually failed to address the problem.

    Quoting Scripture and asking for prays may play well in parts of the country. I would have preferred to hear a little more "leadership" from our leader.

    Jonah Goldberg on Oil is Green: (none / 0) (#5)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 05:14:54 PM EST
    Could You Summarize? (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 05:18:38 PM EST
    I can't read his BS. Or, better yet, any particular reason for linking to him?

    Parent
    shorter Goldberg (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by The Addams Family on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 05:22:05 PM EST
    farming kills

    Parent
    Let's see. More forests/rainforests. (none / 0) (#9)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 05:22:16 PM EST
    Ethanal is bad for rainforests and Miss. delta--fertilizer.  Think how large wind farms/solar panels would need to be (size of Tennessee/Spain respectively)to replace oil--plus no good for transportation, the main use of oil/gas.

    Why post?  Cause I read it, that's why.  Just call me Capt Howdy!

    Parent

    hey (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 05:35:20 PM EST
    Im right here in the first person

    Parent
    I called? (none / 0) (#12)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 05:38:01 PM EST
    I admit (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 05:36:32 PM EST
    I usually think Doughy Pantload is always good for a chuckle.


    Parent
    As much as it pains me to say, (none / 0) (#21)
    by MKS on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 06:17:44 PM EST
    Goldberg may have a point.....Brazil has cut down a lot of rain forest.....and more would need to be cut down for more biofuels.

    I do doubt Goldberg's sincerity on the environment.  And, he says wind and solar can't help our transportation needs because they create electricity--as if electric cars and rail did not exist....

    Parent

    That said, Lucianne and hubby's (none / 0) (#113)
    by jondee on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 03:06:12 PM EST
    decision to change his name from Zezozose Zadfrack Glutz to Jonah, after the adoption was complete, proves that they're capable of performing semi-decent acts on occasion.

    Parent
    tell me he is not the (none / 0) (#122)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 06:09:01 PM EST
    bio-son of Manson girl Susan Atkins aka Sadie Mae Glutz.

    Parent
    this is cute (none / 0) (#13)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 05:39:09 PM EST
    mystery solved (none / 0) (#14)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 05:42:16 PM EST
    Am I a horrible person if I say (5.00 / 4) (#85)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 06:40:57 AM EST
    that I don't care?

    Parent
    Politians, beware of (none / 0) (#18)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 06:02:50 PM EST
    women assoc. with videography!

    Parent
    Lol (none / 0) (#39)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 08:14:50 PM EST
    Must be something about looking in the mirror.

    Both camps are so vehemently denying it that I find it hard to believe. does she have a production assistant?

    Parent

    Winston Churchill (none / 0) (#15)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 05:44:37 PM EST
    becomes Bennie Hill

    (hey there hasnt been an open all day)

    One iPhone 4 on the way (none / 0) (#23)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 06:26:51 PM EST
    Yes, I somehow got my order through early this morning.

    Let me know if there is a setting (none / 0) (#24)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 06:28:54 PM EST
    for hrg. impaired.  

    Must have, if possible.  MLB!

    Parent

    I'm not up on hearing imp. tech (none / 0) (#25)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 06:33:10 PM EST
    so I don't really know what to look for.

    Parent
    I'll check the specifications. Last version (none / 0) (#26)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 06:40:56 PM EST
    didn't accommodate.  Hoping this one may.

    Parent
    There are some apps that (none / 0) (#76)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 10:07:06 PM EST
    say they work as hearing aids, but probably don't work within other apps or when using the phone. Maybe with the new multitasking environment they will be able to develop something for you.

    Parent
    All I care about is the phone--can I hear (none / 0) (#82)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 01:11:08 AM EST
    when making/receiving a phone call.

    Parent
    good for you! (none / 0) (#38)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 08:07:41 PM EST
    I decided to skip this generation. My resolve was faltering until I heard today that the white ones were not available for pre order, and that is what I wanted. If I make it through the pre order day without pulling the trigger I can forget about it for a while.

    You will love that A4 processor. It is the same one that is in the iPad and it is so much faster than the old phones. and that new display looks so nice. looking forward to your review.

    Parent

    Speech Review (none / 0) (#29)
    by waldenpond on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 07:31:33 PM EST
    I was out and missed it...

    MSNBC: It was a great speech if you were on another planet for the last 57 days, where was the how when the nation is crying out for how, how?, an assault on gulf to an 'epidemic',...  

    CNN: competently delivered speech, Matalin dislikes Obama (gasp), Pres urges states to deploy NG to fight oil(?) but King says there are no assets for them to use, Nungessur how? need equipment, King Obama used 1/3 to 1/2 of speech to discuss moving policy-not now Mr. President, putting more people wont' help, ......

    Discussions quickly left the speech.... both channels dissatisfied with his speech in that it didn't have detail. Hard to judge CNN panel reaction as so many don't care for Obama.

    The president's speech (5.00 / 3) (#35)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 07:51:18 PM EST
    was a big miss, if not  a big mess.  He presented little temporal comfort although the spiritual conjuring may have been soothing to some.   A bit defensive and seriously bereft of any new actions, skimming over the primal  need  for the government to get more involved in seeing that the gusher (leak in his words) is plugged.  No action plan, no bold steps, no receivership threats, no amount of escrow demanded, no legislation or rules promulgated.  Yes, on some studies and a czar for offshore drilling oversight, and that moratorium (for now).    This should never happen again, he said.  I agree.

    Parent
    Yes, it is everyone's fault (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 08:33:06 PM EST
    and everyone's responsibility, and, hence, no one's.  No, there is probably nothing that the president of the USA could possibly do, for as I frequently read, hey, what do you what him to do, dive down there and plug it himself?   But the torpedo firing is a new  idea, albeit a Democratic one, and I think you may be on to something.  Fire one, fire two.

    Parent
    I agree (none / 0) (#99)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 11:30:47 AM EST
    with everything you said Donald

    Parent
    Escrow Account (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 08:47:29 PM EST
    It seems pretty clear that he is going to force BP to set up an escrow account. I do not think he would waste so much political capital on the idea if it was not going to happen as you seem to be implying.

    But we'll see...

    Parent

    Really hope it does get done (none / 0) (#61)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 09:29:11 PM EST
    Seems like the most solidly positive idea I have heard come out of this mess.

    Parent
    Everything depends on (none / 0) (#65)
    by BackFromOhio on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 09:33:01 PM EST
    the legal right of the Federal government to require the escrow account and the ability to make sure any monies deposited are insulated from the reach of any bankruptcy court.  It concerns me that the President did not even mention how the escrow account can be assured, and there have been press accounts of government lawyers working on the legal issues for several days.

    Parent
    Perhaps, the details of an escrow account (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by christinep on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 09:53:42 PM EST
    fit more appropriately in the statement after tomorrows Presidential meeting with BP. Fifteen minutes--the network time for the speech--really does necessitate referencing and mentioning the components here forward. Detailing the escrow process would lose the average (non-political) TV viewer. (I understand, tho, that the plan is for a neutral administrator.)

    Parent
    $20 Billion (none / 0) (#98)
    by mmc9431 on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 11:10:23 AM EST
    According to alert from NYT

    Parent
    Real opportunities (5.00 / 3) (#49)
    by waldenpond on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 08:58:07 PM EST
    It's not just a matter of plugging the leak.  The private guards are still blocking the media.  The flow estimate has been increased again (sorry, but that just looks bad.)  BP is now limiting bird pickups and experienced volunteers are blocked from assisting. There are real issues with coordination there.  I'm glad foreign ships are now getting on site but boy-o-boy it's nearly 60 days out.  

    I will note you answered your own question in the next paragraph.

    Parent

    IMO, President Still not taking charge (5.00 / 4) (#72)
    by BackFromOhio on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 09:50:51 PM EST
    from David Corn at motherjones, countering the argument that the problem with our response to the oil spill has been the President's faiure to express anger:

    "...the real problem has not been Obama's too-calm public demeanor ... . It's been the White House's inability to demonstrate that Obama is fully in control of the US response to the eco-nightmare in the Gulf of Mexico.

    "From the start, Obama ought to have been barking orders and imposing demands on BP and the federal agencies--and doing this in public view. Not micromanaging, but commanding."

    Link

    Parent

    From Eugene Robinson at WaPo (5.00 / 5) (#70)
    by Upstart Crow on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 09:48:54 PM EST
    second battle is the effort to contain the tens of millions of gallons of oil that have already polluted the gulf and its coastline. Here, too, the administration has gone by the book and pressured BP to honor its responsibilities. It should be clear by now that this has been a mistake.

    The Post reported Monday that the administration has received offers of assistance from 17 nations. Sweden has volunteered to send three ships that can each collect about 15,000 gallons of oil an hour. Norway has offered to send nearly a third of its oil-spill response equipment. Japan has offered to send some boom, which authorities on the scene complain is in short supply.

    The Swedes, the Norwegians, the Japanese and most of the other would-be Samaritans are still waiting to hear from the U.S. government or BP. Last week, according to The Post, the administration did ask the European Union to help with any specialized equipment it might have. But meanwhile, oil has penetrated the marshes of southern Louisiana and is lapping onto the beaches of Alabama and Florida. The main spill is spreading, and hurricane season is upon us.

    Every available piece of equipment in the world that can vacuum, skim, scoop or sop up oil ought to be in the gulf by now, deployed under a central -- probably military -- command structure. The beaches should be defended as if from a threatened enemy invasion. This is a time for overkill, for the Powell Doctrine, for "decisive force."

    See the rest here.

    Parent

    Reminds me of the Katrina response (5.00 / 5) (#75)
    by caseyOR on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 09:59:42 PM EST
    Countries all around the world offered assistance to the U.S. after Katrina. And what was the response of our government? Condi Rice saying that the United States provides help; we don't accept help.

    Just like with Katrina (seriously, I'm certain the Dutch have some very helpful ideas about keeping the water out), our delusions of American Exceptionalism prove our downfall.

    I mean, really, isn't apparent by now we don't have all the answers?

    Parent

    Actually there are safety devices used in (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 07:33:48 AM EST
    other locations that we do not require.

    This is not a failure of technology but a failure to apply technology.

    Parent

    doveryai, no proveryai (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by Rojas on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 08:00:46 AM EST
    One should consider the fact that there are oversight methods that routinely achieve six sigma results in extraordinarily complex process. Four and five sigma are considered minimal levels to enter many industries.
    No doubt there are many players who never really achieve this level of control and simply cook the books to show compliance.

    Of course in the case of BP it's clear that they need not worry about targeting high levels of compliance as they simply bought politicians instead. And it's precisely that kind of environment that empowers the dice rollers within an organization.

    The argument that we were outstripped by the technology is false. The fact is that any competent review of BP's record of compliance will show that this was inevitable. And further to that, it is inevitable that they would eventually bring  the rest of the industry down to their low level of compliance.


    Parent

    welcome back Carter? (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by The Addams Family on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 09:02:56 AM EST
    though maybe that's unfair to Jimmy Carter who at least said this:

    I'm asking you for your good and for your nation's security to take no unnecessary trips, to use carpools or public transportation whenever you can, to park your car one extra day per week, to obey the speed limit, and to set your thermostats to save fuel.

    at least that's an action plan of sorts

    this today from a blogger who was a strong Obama supporter & has a few ideas about what Obama could do "short of ordering the Navy to randomly fire torpedoes at the leaking wellsite and making BP executives do a perp walk":

    I do not understand why he did not announce the commandeering of oil tankers. I don't understand why we have not accepted the Swedish skimmer offer. I do not understand why he did not call for a national volunteer movement to clean the gulf. I did not hear Obama exert his supreme power to move all the levers of government to solve the greatest environmental disaster in US history. . . . I cannot understand why the President did not demand specific dollar amounts escrowed for the benefit of victims and all the gulf states. The President offered no specifics on how the fund would work, other than to say it will "not be controlled by BP," and "administered by an independent, third party." I do not understand why Obama parroted BP's guarantees that 90% of the spill will be contained soon. August is not soon and the only way to cap the disaster is an unpredictable bottom kill. The relief wells are not a guarantee. The Mexican Ixtoc oil gusher had to drill five relief wells in a shallow water disaster. How the President can parrot BP's apologies and message is hard to understand. . . . Mr. President, you failed your first Oval Office speech. . . . though I lean progressive and will continue to do so, I hope someone runs in a primary against you.

    & that's the way it is . . .

    Parent

    Addams family: And what happened (none / 0) (#112)
    by christinep on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 03:03:10 PM EST
    to Carter? I remember that time when the country rejected Carter's sensible call to sacrifice and the specific plan he laid out. So, we keep hearing that numbers of Gulf Coast residents (and their reps) want restoration of drilling to provide jobs they know? Is the rest of the country any more sanguine about the immediate need to conserve energy and transition as the President outlined in his speech last night?

    Oh, what happened to Carter--in spite of his foresight--was a primary challenge (from one whom I greatly admired, the late Senator Kennedy.) The rest, as they say, is the unfortunate history of Reagan and the Reagan-auts who are yet with us.

    Parent

    i was quoting (5.00 / 2) (#114)
    by The Addams Family on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 03:14:21 PM EST
    someone else, not specifically calling for a primary challenge to Obama

    but i am also with BTD on this question - he thinks primaries s/b SOP & i agree

    btw do you remember that Carter survived the primary challenge from Kennedy? said he would whip Kennedy's @ss & did - he did not lose to Reagan b/c Kennedy primaried him

    anyway i think Carter one day may be regarded w/more respect - as Eisenhower is now for his warnings abt Military-Industrial Complex (which he almost called the Military-Industrial-Congressional complex) - that is if we humans don't stoopid ourselves out of existence before there is time to reassess the prescient warnings of Jimmy Carter

    Parent

    Yes, the commenter quoted (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 03:45:40 PM EST
    was probably expressing his understandable frustration with his primary statement--neither a desirable proposal nor a politically viable one. But, as presented several times, our criticism of  the Gulf oil geyser response is not framed in a political context, but rather in terms of the appropriate response to a national calamity.  While some supporters remain convinced that everything possible has and is being done with only variances in degrees of perfection, others see and smell it differently.  Much debate apparently existed as to the location of the president's speech--Oval Office or  ? (hopefully Jackson Square was not among considerations) but, less to timing.  Perhaps this rather vapid speech should have been given a day later  to include the meeting with the high rollers from BP and at least report its more encouraging (at least until we see the fine print) results, although Carl-Henric Svanberg's desire to take care of "the small people" probably would need to be re-translated.  

    Parent
    Just a bitty comment,, KeysDan (none / 0) (#126)
    by christinep on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 07:00:28 PM EST
    The $20B escrow account with $100M direct workers compensation meets even Everett Dirksen's definition of "now we're talking about really money" (trans. to modern $$, of course.) And, as framed, the $20B is not capped.
    Seriously, the $$ don't erase the environmental disaster by any means. But--for anyone not speaking from a political base or preference--the $$$$ will go a substantial way toward remediation in the near term and toward equitable & earnings relief for the workers. The remediation step (coupled with the criminal investigation ongoing) is significant & proper, and a result that usually takes months or years to obtain in a legal battle. (Trans. The President did do the requisite legal strong-arming via diplomacy on an international level.)
    Now, for the future. While months & years will be devoted to the Gulf catastrophe, we need to focus on the future composition of energy dynamics, don't we?


    Parent
    Yes, as I noted, (4.75 / 4) (#128)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 08:48:26 PM EST
    the "escrow account" is encouraging, but please forgive me if I continue to be skeptical until more is known.  As the late Senator Dirksen said, a billion here and billion there, and it begins to add up--and that in itself is a worry as far as BP is concerned.  We do know at this point that the 20 Billion comes over four years, 10 billion per year.  We also know that BP has engaged Goldman Sachs, Blackstone Group (yes that Blackstone) and Credit Suisse, as advisors--as a buffer to hostile takeovers or to file for bankruptcy.  My own, view, and sure hope I am wrong, is that BP is a Bernie Madoff inspired operation, giving extraordinary returns so as to keep it going with investors.  This is not withstanding the president's curious statement today that BP is strong and viable and it was in everyone's interest that it remain so"  It is not in anyone's interest other than BP and their stockholders interest that they be strong and viable, other than that they should be around long enough to pay their debt to us. And, if that issue is in question, seize the assets now.  Of course the 20 B is not a cap we are told, but how it that fund replenished, especially four years from now, assuming all is well with the well  But, again that is an issue, President Obama is now on the hook for the BP estimate that 90 percent of the oil will be captured until "a" relief well permits the final killing of the well later in the summer (it was to be July 13).  Odd, too, since there are two relief wells being drilled.  I do believe that too much faith is being put in BP and, for that matter, the words of President Obama. Sorry, but the record does not support anything other until matched by deeds.

    Parent
    I understand your concern about potential (none / 0) (#129)
    by christinep on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 10:05:03 PM EST
    collapse/failure/$$loss by any seemingly impenetrable operation these days. That is why I was relieved to see--related to the WH statement today--that assets collateral is being required of BP. It appears that the $$ obligation will be secured.
    When all is said & done at some future point, it will be eye-opening, I'm sure, to learn of the style of hard-bargaining that produced the strong result announced today. (And, yes, I too always await the fulfillment of the committed actions before untensing the system.)

    Parent
    An amusing irony ... (none / 0) (#84)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 05:22:43 AM EST
    prior to the speech on ABC there were 5 car commercials.

    Parent
    I missed it too (5.00 / 3) (#41)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 08:21:30 PM EST
     I was expecting some concrete plans and details.  Obama as technocrat should have been able to deliver that much. I'll look for a transcript.

    I have no patience for the spiritual 'we'll get through this even stronger' crapola. That's simply nonsense. Lots of people will not get through this at all, and the Gulf will never be the same. of course the climate change was going to get it eventually anyway, but still.

    Parent

    Some want the details; some want the spiritual (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by christinep on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 09:06:26 PM EST
    Actually, it is interesting to scan quick accounts of the speech--I wanted the more soaring quality and others wanted a few more details.  So??? I suspect, that as squeaky notes, the escrow package==and how that is rolled out--will be central. Because, in terms of law, it will take the consequential approach and require compensation (with a neutral party as administrator) and, in terms of equity, it will stress the "making whole" aspect for the small fishing operations, etc. It is a delicate dance between retribution and rehabilitation--here, and in our whole field of law.

    Parent
    It's true that people's recovey (none / 0) (#54)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 09:16:13 PM EST
    will depend on the details that have not been decided or announced yet. I guess vie been busy on the last couple of days and have not kept up with exactly what is going on- should not expect the press to be my nightly news anchor.

    Parent
    Press= Pres above (none / 0) (#56)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 09:17:49 PM EST
    Though it is also true that I should not expect much news out of most of the press either.

    Parent
    Transcript (none / 0) (#44)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 08:48:20 PM EST
    You are 31 seconds faster (none / 0) (#46)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 08:49:55 PM EST
    I blame my iPad typing

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#47)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 08:51:07 PM EST
    I had already found it and read it... so I did not have to google. but close enough to call a tie..

    Parent
    Thanks for posting (none / 0) (#57)
    by BackFromOhio on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 09:23:55 PM EST
    link

    Parent
    Transcript (none / 0) (#45)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 08:48:51 PM EST
    Having read it now (none / 0) (#53)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 09:10:08 PM EST
    Seems like a useful overview, but I would have liked more detail about the new equipment etc. they directed BP to use. I thought the answer to the critics of the moratorium was good, and did not come across as too defensive, at least as written.  The moratorium should not be controversial, but I'm of the camp that says every righty talking point should be taken on.

    I like to think that the general public could have handled more specifics and detail on the techniques being used.

    Parent

    I see your point (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by christinep on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 09:29:16 PM EST
    As for myself, I'd love an answer to all the rightwing charges and more. But, the reality (as my husband points out during my non-stop commentary on the nature of the speech) is that all networks allotted @15 minutes, most individuals who might have the TV on then aren't necessarily versed in background facts, and others may be operating under a set of rumors/hearsay. I would guess that to (1)acknowledge the circumstance of the anger that people feel (on top of the economic squeeze and the inherited wars) (2) recap what has been done in response (3) explain briefly responsibility of BP and how the company will pay/recompense/clean up and (4) stress the need for transitional steps to an energy independent policy (while doing a promo for pending energy legislation)...that surely fills the allotted time.
    It is tough to forego an in-depth explication--e.g., such as referencing the case against BP in more detail (for us old EPA enforcement types)--but, the more that I think about it the more that his speech hits the points in a cohesive way. The speech is disciplined in tone and in content. And, in considering the time typically devoted to serious and political matters in front of the TV, I now think that the speech did what it had to do. Speaking for myself, I wish that that discipline and method was a virtue of mine. It isn't. I would have liked an hour speech; but, undoubtedly, most people today would have nodded off no matter the speaker.

    Parent
    I see yours too (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 09:39:11 PM EST
    It's an overview for the nation, not a seminar on spill recovery techniques.

    He probably judged his audience better than I would have too.

    Parent

    Interesting. I thought the speech (5.00 / 8) (#67)
    by caseyOR on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 09:44:06 PM EST
    was a waste of time. I neither need nor want yet another Obama speech that speaks with a big voice but carries a soft stick. If Obama succeeds in getting BP to set aside a substantial and realistic amount of money in an escrow account, and if he does not agree to a limit on BP's liability before we even know how horribly bad all of this really is, and if he puts into place real reforms at Interior, and if he stays on this even when it fades (as it will) from our TVs, then I'll give him props. But another speech? Meh.

    Obama's MO thus far, when dealing with corporations, has been to speak harshly in public and kowtow in private as he did with Wall Street and all the big players in the health care industry.

    Time will tell.

    Parent

    MSNBC zapped him (5.00 / 3) (#91)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 07:42:03 AM EST
    Saw it, and agree with you. (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 11:49:03 AM EST
    One part - god will be a light to lead us through the darkness, we are in a battle and we WILL win. Oy vey, give me a break.

    One part - get off oil and create new energy. Beautiful words, but never any follow-through from democrats. Nothing will happen.

    Problem - the escrow is great, and we should do everything we can to help businesses affected, but not a word about the root cause of this problem, how it was preventable, and the problem of corporate free-for-all. The biggest environmental disaster in our country's history, and what are they not saying? That they enabled it completely and likely will continue to.

    Another problem - not enough real science in the speech. It's not just about shorelines and beaches and protecting wetlands. It's all the deep water environments and no one is talking about that. There will never be able to clean this up.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#55)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 09:16:59 PM EST
    The way I see it is that no one really has a clue as this is a brand new beast. The best hope, and everyone seems to be banking on it, is that the relief well will work and successfully shut down the well in August.

    I would not bet money on it.

    Canada and Norway they require relief wells to be drilled before the main well is operational. Lautenberg has just proposed a bill requiring just that:

    There have been a lot of "you've GOT to be kidding me" moments with this oil spill, but for me I think the biggest has been that Canada and Norway, which both have offshore drilling, required relief wells be dug and the US didn't. (And BP has been lobbying Canada hard to get rid of their regulations requiring it.) It was yet another shocking admission of the irresponsible magical thinking of our greedhead, scumbag elites over the past couple of decades. I guess the assumption was that because the US is so damned "exceptional" Mr Wizard would always step in if something happens and fix it. It's not ever a good plan.

    digby

    Parent

    Digby goes on to suggest (5.00 / 7) (#58)
    by caseyOR on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 09:24:13 PM EST
    that all those oil workers, currently unemployed because of the moratorium, be put to work digging relief wells for all the Gulf rigs that currently lack them. Since apparently none of the rigs in the GofM have relief wells, that should keep everyone working for some time.

    Sounds like a win-win to me. The Gulf economy gets some employment, and the Gulf itself gets some protection. What's not to like? How soon can the oil companies move on this? How soon can the U.S. government move on this?

    Parent

    A lot of speech disingenuous (5.00 / 3) (#60)
    by BackFromOhio on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 09:28:29 PM EST
    and some history rewriting.  E.g., the notion that we have done all we could as a government to date.

    In addition, we are not in entirely unchartered waters.  The Arabian Gulf oil spill of 1993 was mammoth, and the supertanker solution worked well to clean up the spilled oil.  See Esquire.com, where there is lots of coverage of this issue and this cleanup method.

    Parent

    And, no one has (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by BackFromOhio on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 09:30:15 PM EST
    addressed the fact that we have been granting drilling rights to companies who have been sending the oil overseas.  

    Parent
    Yup (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 06:46:38 AM EST
    Saudi Arabia offered that help a long while back too and it has been common knowledge about their past successes with it as well.  And I could tear my hair out, but that's pointless.  He's going to do what he damn well wants to do or not do, he's going to rewrite all the history he wants and I can go feck myself or watch the World Cup.  I pick World Cup.

    Parent
    Not a bad performance for reaching (none / 0) (#80)
    by ZtoA on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 11:49:21 PM EST
    certain goals.

    The speech was good considering the circumstances. If I had not been following this I would have been reassured and comforted and would have believed him.  He is best when it sounds like he is campaigning - talking about our decades failures as if his administration is not part of that. But that said, he did a good job of this - was even somewhat inspiring at times about green jobs and seizing the moment. Could do without the God Talk. He is a good spiritual leader for some - but that does not work for me. The POTUS does not need to lead us in prayer.

    I think this administration knows the real extent of this unfolding disaster. I find it terrible that the president called this gusher the "crisis of the moment". This will be a crisis for years, decades if not centuries and the gulf will not just "go back". Those out of work fishermen will most likely be out of work permanently so how long is BP going to pay? If the relief well (1 or 2 -?) do not work (and BP is at most only drilling two) then this could go for a long time.

    And the sea floor appears to be growing more unstable, the well is broken and leaking up to 1000 feet below the sea floor.  The real implications of this well breach plus the dispersants are devastating and I'm sure the Obama administration wants to downplay that. Maybe what I'm reading is wrong and Obama is doing everything possible and the hurricane season will not bring crude into the interior and BP will suddenly become an oil corporation with a conscience over PR and also suddenly become competent and the gulf's ecosystem will not really be impacted.

    Parent

    ZtoA, check your email, please. (none / 0) (#83)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 01:57:06 AM EST
    Missive sent to you at aladavis@gmail.com.

    Parent
    I'm with you (none / 0) (#59)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 09:26:07 PM EST
    Not betting a dime on that relief well at this point.

    I feel like we all knew the oil lobby was doing this type of thing with weakening the regulations and flat out disobeying them at will, but, as digby says, thought any bad that would come of it could be fixed. Even though I've been railing against big oil all these years, I never imagined anything this disastrous. I thought they had a limit on how far they would let things go. I thought they would just steal my money.

    Parent

    The fallacy of self-policing corporations (5.00 / 3) (#64)
    by caseyOR on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 09:32:50 PM EST
    It's the same thinking that led to our ginormous financial crisis. You'd think by now we would be over the idea that corporations will ever put anything above a quarterly profit, even their own survival.

    I remember Greenspan's testimony before Congress where he expressed such shock and surprise that Wall Street did not rein itself in before driving off a cliff.

    Industries cannot and will not police themselves for the greater good. It is up to society, through the government, to protect itself from the reckless pursuit of short-term profits by corporate players.

    Parent

    I wish very much (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 09:48:35 PM EST
    That Obama had your last sentence in his speech. It is exactly the problem, and lord only knows what the next disastrous example will be.

    Parent
    I was very upset about his (5.00 / 5) (#87)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 06:50:57 AM EST
    drilling plans a few weeks before this disaster.  But I was an internet idiot then for throwing a fit.  I was told that I didn't understand anything, that I wasn't practical, that I was once again a big ole hater hatin on the Obama.  Now I'm just a mean person and not nice to the President and I'm destroying everyone's bloggy happiness.

    Parent
    Which comes first? Well 1 or Well 2? (none / 0) (#90)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 07:38:26 AM EST
    Canada and Norway they require relief wells to be drilled before the main well is operational.

    Not a bad idea but in this case the blow out happened while Well 1 was being drilled...

    Parent

    Well it seems that the MSM (5.00 / 4) (#95)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 08:45:00 AM EST
    has gotten past the "Greatest Speech Evah" phase.

    Parent
    Energy legislation (none / 0) (#68)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 09:45:32 PM EST
    This does not look promising.. How can the Senate think it is acceptable to NOT address climate change? And why am I surprised? They can't deal with crisis' happening right before their eyes, much less slow moving disasters.  

    dog kills baby (none / 0) (#100)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 11:31:34 AM EST
    They'll never stop (none / 0) (#102)
    by mmc9431 on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 11:50:02 AM EST
    BREAKING NEWS: "As the trial over California's prohibition on same-sex marriage enters its final stage today, the ban's sponsors are urging the judge to go a step further and revoke state recognition of the marriages of 18,000 gay and lesbian couples who wed before voters passed Proposition 8.

    Why no request... (none / 0) (#103)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 11:58:04 AM EST
    to revoke every state of Cali divorce...think of the sanctity!

    Parent
    I see the State of NY is considering (none / 0) (#108)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 01:39:04 PM EST
    adopting no fault divorce law.  How very 21st Century!

    Parent
    Wondering... (none / 0) (#109)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 01:57:39 PM EST
    where the opposition to the idea is from the sanctity crowd.

    That's right...they're as full of it as the next guy.

    Parent

    NY State NOW Opposes No Fault Passage (none / 0) (#119)
    by daring grace on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 06:02:10 PM EST
    which puts it at odds, apparently, with NYC NOW

    Parent
    I heard this morning (none / 0) (#104)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 11:59:29 AM EST
    (apparently the expectation is that Boise and Ted are going to win this one) that it might not make it to the SC for three years.

    wtf?

     

    Parent

    Democrats and Crist (none / 0) (#105)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 12:01:29 PM EST
    always thought Crist would win.  this could make it more likely:

    The emergence of a politically unknown billionaire self-funder in the Florida Senate race is prompting top Democrats in the state to say publicly what some have been whispering for weeks: If Jeff Greene, who got rich betting on the collapse of the housing market, becomes their nominee, many in the party will have the cover they need to get behind Republican-turned-independent Gov. Charlie Crist.

    Sunshine State Democrats are beginning to consider the increasingly realistic prospect that their nominee might be a "meltdown mogul" -- one who collects erotic art, had Mike Tyson serve as his best man and once hosted "Hollywood Madam" Heidi Fleiss as a house guest.

    Faced with such an awkward possibility, many influential Democrats indicated that supporting Crist -- who has quickly moved leftward since leaving the GOP -- or just remaining quiet would be the better of the unenviable options.



    god this is depressing (none / 0) (#106)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 01:09:31 PM EST
    Frodobama

    Jon Stewart

    Meet the new boss... (none / 0) (#107)
    by Lora on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 01:37:58 PM EST
    BP agrees (none / 0) (#110)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 02:13:34 PM EST
    $20 bn is not a cap (none / 0) (#115)
    by The Addams Family on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 03:22:57 PM EST
    The $20 billion is not a cap -- if legitimate claims outstrip that amount, then BP will be required to pay more.

    that is good to hear

    question is, how MUCH more if "legitimate claims outstrip that amount"? ALL of what's truly owed? or will this be just the latest chapter in the ongoing saga of corporate anarchy?

    Parent

    corporate anarchy: (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by jondee on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 05:52:25 PM EST
    is just the end result of the alternative theology of "unimpeded markets" and profit-as-universal-panacea -- divorced from all other realities and valuations -- that continues to be imparted like an alternative catechism, as we speak, to thousands of bright eyed business and economics school students across the country..

    Life and limb, human well being, ecological devastation: all just trifling considerations to be subsumed under the all powerful, overriding "cost benefit analysis" model; a prime example of Nietzsche's "Life cutting into life", if there ever was one..

     

    Parent

    We'll See (none / 0) (#120)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 06:03:24 PM EST
    The largest fine in OSHA history was in 2005 against BP $87 mil, they are appealing.

    The largest commodities fine was against 4 BP traders $300 million in 2007.

    Seems like $20bil is a comfortable start. They will have to put $20bil up as collateral in US assets, and then $5bil/year for four years.

    Seems like a good start to me. nothing puny about the starting number, imo, even if it winds up being small in hindsight.

    Parent

    More Details Here (none / 0) (#121)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 06:04:36 PM EST
    Right Wing State (none / 0) (#117)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 05:06:52 PM EST
    Haaretz reflects on the 43 year old project called Israel, and wonders if it can both continue its exceptionalist right wing direction, and continue to exist.

    It is self-evident that any couple can marry "without regard to religion, race or gender." And yet in Israel a Jewish man and a non-Jewish woman cannot legally marry. It's self-evident that there is no arbitrary discrimination, and yet it's enough to use the magic words "I'm a religious woman" or "I'm an ultra-Orthodox man" and the obligation to serve in the military evaporates.

    Short and worth a read

    yeah saw that earlier (none / 0) (#123)
    by The Addams Family on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 06:16:36 PM EST
    Rachlevsky makes some interesting & provocative comments & i cannot disagree w/his conclusions

    but man is the article badly argued - a thicket of false equivalences, non sequiturs & argument by assertion

    glad it was short ;)

    thanks for the link

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#124)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 06:24:01 PM EST
    It seems like a person who is extremely worried that his right wing government is hell bent on having his country blown to bits, not to mention vilified in the eyes of the world.

    Must be harder to take as a liberal living there, than it is here.

    Parent

    he is what you might call a firebrand (none / 0) (#125)
    by The Addams Family on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 06:40:03 PM EST
    as a fiction writer he takes an incendiary tone so it's no surprise that in this piece he rejects the conventions of argumentation

    & no doubt the times & the moment call for intemperance

    but the illogic - it burns

    makes him sound juvenile & hysterical & like he does not even know the conventions

    the man is no journalist imo and not even a good op-ed writer

    guess he is not looking for converts though - preaching to the choir, like most

    Parent

    That's quite a thorough going (none / 0) (#131)
    by jondee on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 10:09:17 PM EST
    indictment of a piece that extended for a few paragraphs at most, and came into being in a mileau in which the common currency is more often than not references to rockets-raining-down, people being "swept into the sea" and events that occurred seventy years ago -- and sometimes two thousand years ago..

    I dont know who these people are who adhere to these rigorous standards of proper journalistic argumentation and even tempered analysis in an op-ed piece in regards to Israel - Palestine, but I haven't seen too many spotless examples - that dont include some incendiary or hysterical element -  in the last few years in Haaretz (certainly not in The Jerusalem Post) or in American newspapers.      

     

    Parent

    all true (none / 0) (#133)
    by The Addams Family on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 10:30:36 PM EST
    would not quite call what i wrote an indictment - just my nsho ;) - ymmv

    Parent
    Anyone know about (none / 0) (#127)
    by ZtoA on Wed Jun 16, 2010 at 07:24:59 PM EST
    abiotic oil, the kind(s) of oil in the gusher (more like volcano) and if Benzine is a part of Natural Gas, dispersant or some other component from the well?