home

Friday Open Thread

I'll be in court until mid-afternoon. It's your turn to take on the news. This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

< RIP: Revered Hmong Leader Gen. Vang Pao | Friday Afternoon Open Thread >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    If Mayor Mike... (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 11:47:36 AM EST
    hasn't left for Bermuda yet, I thought I'd take this opportunity to let him know it is currently snowing, and to leave someone in charge in case we get more than expected:)

    The House (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 12:34:49 PM EST
    Throws out votes that were cast by a couple of Republican congressman who missed the swearing-in ceremony because they were at a reception with campaign donors.

    At least (none / 0) (#61)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 01:15:18 PM EST
    No (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 01:27:41 PM EST
    But it is funny that those who possibly cost the taxpayers $1 million by reading selected parts of the Constitution, couldn't keep their own members from violating ethics rules on the very first day.

    Parent
    Exactly (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by ruffian on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 01:28:15 PM EST
    Pretty funny (none / 0) (#96)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 03:04:30 PM EST

    It would have cost the taxpayers far far less if the they did nothing but read the Constitution for the past two years.  

    Parent
    Depends on your perspective (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 03:07:09 PM EST
    FDR proved that government spending is necessary to dig out of something like the mess we have...

    Parent
    Huh? (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:09:58 PM EST
    Unemployment was still well above 15% in 1838 zfter years of FDR policies.  It is perhaps a better case that the policies of FDR prolonged the depression.  

    If you recall, the drop in unemployment had much more to do with WWII.

    Likewise, Obama has jacked up spending to a peacetime record 25% of GDP (up from about 20% average) and unemployment remains high.  

    Wasteful spending destroys wealth, and a less wealthy population will produce less, spend less, and consume less.

    Parent

    Conservatives have this blind spot (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:24:28 PM EST
    when it comes to defense spending.  It never contributes to the deficit.  It is always absolutely necessary.  But it is not big government spending....

    Truly irrational....

    Parent

    Well, the panic of 1837 was bad (none / 0) (#121)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:20:50 PM EST
    --but before FDR's time.

    I said that it was government spending that ended the Great Depression....Military spending in WWII was government spending...

    Cutting taxes did not end the Great Depression.

    To recite stats that will bore most here since we have dicsussed them so often:  Unemployment was at 25% when FDR took office.  Within a year or two, FDR had cut that in half.  In 1937, conservatives convinced FDR to cut spending, and unemployment promptly went up.

    True, it was the massive spending--and incurring of debt--of WWII that brought us fully out of the Great Depression.  That only shows that the New Deal was not big enough.

    Or take Reagan.  He incurred big debt to boost the economy.  He cut taxes, (not as much as many conservatives would like to think, and he also raised them too) and sent goverment spending through the roof with his increase in Defense Spending.  It was part of the 700 ship Navy etc.  It powered the ecnomoy, especially here in SoCal for a long time.   Reagan used to defiict spending to boost the ecnomoy.  He was a Kenyesian in actual deed, not a Supply Sider....

    Parent

    So FDR is a saint for govt wartime (none / 0) (#149)
    by BTAL on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 05:12:29 PM EST
    spending and RR is a schmuck for doing the exact same thing?

    Parent
    That wasn't my point (none / 0) (#168)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 06:34:23 PM EST
    The point was that both FDR and Reagan used government spending and deficit spending, and more specifically military spending, to end economic downturns.

    As to the need for Reagan's military spending, I had not commented on that point, but many have since written that the might of, and danger posed by, the Soviet Union was greatly exaggerated.  WWII was not an exaggerated threat.  

    Parent

    Check the graph (none / 0) (#155)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 05:53:38 PM EST
    If you are talking about 1896 (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 06:48:12 PM EST
    that was all about Free Silver and William Jennings Bryan's Cross of Gold speech.... Nebraska farmers not having enough credit.....The Wall Street manipulation of its day, so to speak....

    Milton Friedman's Monetary History of the United States is (or was) considered the best source of info on the credit crisis of 1890s....

    But that is such a different time, different economy--before the auto was in wide use for Pete sake....

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#196)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 12:21:50 PM EST
    The depression of 1896 had unemployment above 10% for only five years.  All without the counterproductive policies of Hoover and FDR.  Of course FDR did not cause the great depression, but it seems clear that the Hoover/FDR policies of increased taxes and regulation performed much worse than the previous depression.  

    Yes it was a different time, but supply and demand work the same for cars as for horses and buggies.  The big difference was the response of the Feds.

    Parent

    Prior Depression? (none / 0) (#165)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 06:30:57 PM EST
    I have no idea what you are really saying....You link to the historical graph of unemployment.

    FDR took office in March 1933--when unemployment was 25%.  No one blames FDR for the Great Depression--it is not really possible to do so.  

    The Great Depression was caused by speculation on Wall Street and a run on the banking system--both of which occurred beginning in 1929.  Most scholars agree that the collapse of the banking system is what made the Great Depression so horrible.  Banks failed and the money supply contracted.

    Most thought that another Great Depression could not occur because we have the FDIC which makes a run on banks impossible.  But the problem in 2008 was the unregulated and uninsured shadow banking system consisting of credit default swaps and the like.  The collapse of that system was akin to the collapse of the formal banking system during the Great Depression.

    Too little regulation caused the collapse of 2008 and the ensuing Great Recession, as they are now calling it.

    Parent

    Mass. Supreme Court rules against (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by ruffian on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 12:59:53 PM EST
    Wells Fargo in foreclosure case involving secularized mortgage with improperly documented ownership.

    Yves Smith:

    This ruling increases the odds that more borrowers will sue bank servicers and trustees for wrongful foreclosures.

    Bring it on!


    heh - secularized (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by ruffian on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 02:40:49 PM EST
    those are the god-forsaken mortgages.

    Meant securitized of course - spell check does not know that work yet.

    Parent

    Nor does spell check know (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by DFLer on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 05:04:54 PM EST
     that "word" yet either!
     Sorry for the snark. I couldn't resist.

    Parent
    Well, at least (none / 0) (#58)
    by Zorba on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 01:12:46 PM EST
    that's some good news.  I sure could use some.

    Parent
    Amen... (none / 0) (#59)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 01:12:47 PM EST
    drown the thieving bastards in paper to where they can't possibly rip their customers enough to pay for all the lawsuits...and cross your fingers Timmy doesn't bail 'em out.

    Parent
    A funny and cute winter themed animated GIF (5.00 / 3) (#64)
    by Babel 17 on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 01:19:49 PM EST
    I love that dog! (none / 0) (#102)
    by byteb on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 03:47:41 PM EST
    very cute.

    Parent
    Aww n/t (none / 0) (#106)
    by lilburro on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 03:51:55 PM EST
    Insider threats to Obama (4.83 / 6) (#15)
    by Edger on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 11:28:38 AM EST
    White House's `insider threat' program targets federal employees for surveillance
    Daniel Tencer at RawStory thursday...

    In an effort to prevent another Bradley Manning, the Obama administration is urging all federal government agencies to watch its employees for signs they may be leaking classified information.
    [snip]
    The document (PDF), which was leaked to NBC less than 48 hours after it was written, urges agencies to develop an "insider threat program" that would monitor employees for "behavioral changes" indicating they may be leaking classified documents or be willing to do so.

    Tencer's article also notes that the leaked document "calls on agencies to hire psychiatrists and sociologists to measure the 'despondence or grumpiness' of federal employees" ostensibly in an attempt to measure or quantify their "trustworthiness", and urges using polygraph machines on them as well as monitoring their computer usage  and recording whether or not they visit websites like WikiLeaks or OpenLeaks, and watching them for signs of "high occurrences of foreign travel."

    Agencies are urged to "capture evidence of pre-employment and/or post-employment activities or participation in on-line media data mining sites like WikiLeaks or Open Leaks," indicating that the administration wants to see personnel monitored even after they stop working for the federal government.
    [snip]
    As NBC noted, the White House may be under pressure to show to the new Republican-dominated House that they are reacting swiftly and concretely to the WikiLeaks releases.

    more...

    To 'borrow' a comment from AmericanRiverCanyon at DD: "[Are] you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Sanity Party?"

    Joe McCarthy must be rolling over laughing in his grave.

    Wow (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 11:30:05 AM EST
    Yeah (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Edger on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 11:41:38 AM EST
    I'm bushed.

    Maybe they could polygraph grumpy and despondent taxpayers in filing season.

    But then, by their own standard in this, white house 'staffers' (and presidents?) will have to have themselves polygraphed for despondence and grumpiness. They appear to be quite depressed. They may be threats to national security.

    Parent

    I'm absolutely stupefied (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by Zorba on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 12:21:43 PM EST
    I'm rapidly getting to the point where I don't even recognize this country any more.  Maybe I'm even beyond that point.  Thanks for the info, Edger.  (Is it too soon in the day to pour myself a stiff drink?)

    Parent
    Long as you (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Edger on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 12:46:05 PM EST
    pour me one too. Or two...

    Parent
    Mr. Zorba (5.00 / 3) (#51)
    by Zorba on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 12:56:50 PM EST
    works for the feds- he's a scientist at one of the HHS agencies.  I just sent him an email that he'd better start acting "happy" or he might get into trouble.  And he's been rather grumpy lately, what with budget cuts, salaries frozen, the denigration of government employees, and so on and on.  (Never mind that he's actually doing research to save peoples' lives, and that he could have made much more money working at a university, and even more working for a biotech or drug company.)  Bad enough they were forbidden to look at Wikileaks- now the "thought police" are after them.  Echoes of George Orwell........

    Parent
    Or to echo.. (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 01:03:14 PM EST
    another dystopian classic, "Brave New World"...if big brother wants their low-level employees happy, the least he can do is cough up some free Soma.

    Parent
    It's all good. It's the NEW way... (none / 0) (#63)
    by Edger on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 01:16:42 PM EST
    Remarks By The President Welcoming Senior Staff And Cabinet Secretaries - 1/21/09:

    I will also hold myself as President to a new standard of openness. Going forward, anytime the American people want to know something that I or a former President wants to withhold, we will have to consult with the Attorney General and the White House Counsel, whose business it is to ensure compliance with the rule of law. Information will not be withheld just because I say so. It will be withheld because a separate authority believes my request is well grounded in the Constitution.

    Let me say it as simply as I can: Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency.

    All he needs is a "polygraph memo" from OLC and we're all good.

    Transparent? Clear? I have no problem seeing right through him.

    Parent

    Yes, it's (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by Zorba on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 01:50:23 PM EST
    "The Openness Administration" all right.  As long as you think and act the way they want.  Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.  I'm so glad I voted for Mr. Hope and Change.  I think I'll break open the new bottle of Crown Royal that's in our liquor cabinet.  Come on over, Edger, and I'll pour you one, too.  

    Parent
    Be right over... (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Edger on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 01:55:51 PM EST
    Shoon ash I finish thish one ;-)

    Parent
    LOL! (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by Zorba on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 02:02:50 PM EST
    Just don't drink and drive.

    Parent
    Totally Transparent (5.00 / 2) (#103)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 03:48:40 PM EST
    Just as transparent as all those back room deals with pharma, the insurance and medical industries. Obama has also adopted the Nixon & Bush II version of the rule of law.

    Parent
    Double WOW... (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by BTAL on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 12:23:18 PM EST
    Small price to pay (5.00 / 5) (#26)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 11:47:19 AM EST
    for having such a hip, cool dude for president. The most progressive president evah. Have I mentioned scary Sarah Palin. Let's all stand up and cheer. :-(

    Parent
    And the puppy (none / 0) (#30)
    by Edger on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 11:50:54 AM EST
    Don't forget the puppy... ;-)

    Parent
    That video (none / 0) (#36)
    by sj on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 12:11:03 PM EST
    is excruciatingly boring without sound :)  Have no idea what it's like with sound.

    Cute puppy, though.

    Parent

    Strange (none / 0) (#44)
    by Edger on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 12:45:10 PM EST
    It has sound when I watch it... but yes, it is boring ;-)

    Parent
    Not so strange (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by sj on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 12:59:00 PM EST
    I have sound turned off at work :)

    Parent
    You have a job? (none / 0) (#66)
    by Edger on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 01:21:29 PM EST
    Wow. Where did you find it? ;-)

    Parent
    I don't remember anyone arguing that he was (none / 0) (#47)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 12:48:05 PM EST
    the most progressive president ever (or indicated that he would be).  I remember him saying that he wanted bipartisanship.  

    And yeah, Sarah Palin is terrifying.

    Parent

    She is, yes (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by Edger on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 01:57:28 PM EST
    Nearly as scary as bi-partisaning with her and her friends.

    Parent
    Bi-partisanship is so 2010. (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 02:22:47 PM EST
    Now it is Uni-partisanship.

    Parent
    Well, shoot - you make this argument (5.00 / 6) (#97)
    by Anne on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 03:05:39 PM EST
    all the time, don't you?  That Obama is the most progressive president of our time?  

    Amazing to me that he could be both the most progressive president in memory AND bipartisan, to boot.

    I mean, how do you give a repressive and regressive party boatloads of what they want in the name of bipartisanship and somehow end up with progressive legislation and policy?

    Seems to me that only happens if you turn the meaning of "progressive" on its head, which wouldn't seem to be in service to the goal of attaining actual progressive legislation and policy, but in service to someone's political fortunes.

    Parent

    Of course (none / 0) (#136)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:42:33 PM EST
    he's not the most progressive President ever.  But has first two years have been ridiculously progressive by most objective metrics.

    Repeal DADT, HCR, student loan reform, banking reform, etc.

    You don't have to do a handstand to call that stuff progressive.

    Parent

    Would you have called Bob Dole (5.00 / 3) (#164)
    by dk on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 06:30:44 PM EST
    the most progressive Senate Majority leader ever if he hadn't failed where Obama succeded, because his HCR and Obama's HCR were basically the same.  Just curious.

    Parent
    Banking reform? (5.00 / 2) (#195)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 11:48:16 AM EST
    That is a joke, right?

    Parent
    HCR was banking reform (5.00 / 2) (#197)
    by Edger on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 12:28:44 PM EST
    Guaranteed to reform your bank account.

    Parent
    Sounds like they need (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 11:49:14 AM EST
    their own Dr. Cal Lightman and the Lightman Group

    After all - he did get his start at the Pentagon.

    Parent

    it sounded like a bunch of ineffective (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by lilburro on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 12:57:13 PM EST
    and ridiculous bureaucratic BS until I read

    the administration wants to see personnel monitored even after they stop working for the federal government.

    very very creepy.

    Parent

    Is that even legal? (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by shoephone on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 01:05:34 PM EST

    the administration wants to see personnel monitored even after they stop working for the federal government.

    Oh wait, I forgot. We're living in Obama's Brave New World now. It's all groovy. But someone, please, remind me to breathe.

    Parent

    Good news from Egypt... (4.67 / 3) (#9)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 11:00:26 AM EST
    People of different faiths coming together as Egyptians for peace, as a call for muslims to attend coptic christian christmas eve mass throughout the country gains widespread traction.

    Could always use a reminder of the beauty our species is capable of...

    I hope this turns out well. (none / 0) (#12)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 11:20:42 AM EST
    this is great (4.50 / 2) (#28)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 11:48:05 AM EST
    Rep. Michele Bachmann (R., Minn.) is unhappy with how MSNBC anchor Chris Matthews covers her. "It almost doesn't seem like real journalism," she tells NRO. "It is less than professional."

    On Thursday, Matthews reported on Bachmann's ascension to the House Intelligence Committee. "This is great irony here, on the Intelligence committee," he said. "I wonder what the rules are for getting on that committee? I guess they're pretty lenient."

    Bachmann says this kind of statement seems oddly "personal for him and I don't understand why."

    Matthews, Bachmann adds, appears to be "picking on girls" in his coverage.

    you know, IMO no matter what Agent Orange does for the rest of his life his primary footnote in the history books will be that he was the guy who put this dangerous idiot on the Intelligence Committee.

    Shew must never have watched his Hillary coverage (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by ruffian on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 12:44:13 PM EST

    Bachmann says this kind of statement seems oddly "personal for him and I don't understand why."


    Parent
    Mathews is in illustrious company for once... (5.00 / 0) (#60)
    by desertswine on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 01:12:48 PM EST
    tweety is a tool (none / 0) (#62)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 01:16:03 PM EST
    but even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

    Parent
    Just because she IS an idiot (none / 0) (#67)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 01:25:46 PM EST
    Does not mean it his his place to say that.  There are more professional ways of saying she shouldn't be on the committee.

    Bachmann should have asked why anyone who spits all over their guests and drools on camera should be taken seriously.

    Parent

    this is bull (none / 0) (#70)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 01:30:11 PM EST
    whos place is it?

    Parent
    He's a tool (none / 0) (#80)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 02:04:41 PM EST
    Why watch him?

    If someone reporting to be a "journalist" called a subject an idiot, then it just reduces that "journalist's" credibility.

    Seriously - the MSNBC line up would get a run for their money on professionalism from a junior high mass media class.

    Parent

    grind your Hillary (1.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 02:10:01 PM EST
    ax someplace else

    Parent
    LOL! (none / 0) (#83)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 02:16:45 PM EST
    Not a Hillary axe.  Matthews is as big an idiot as Bachmann. He's always been an a$$.

    But nice try, reading into my darkest motivations.

    Parent

    perhaps (5.00 / 0) (#84)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 02:20:11 PM EST
    Matthews is as big an idiot as Bachmann.

    he is not on the intelligence committee.

    talk to me when Bachman Teabag Overdrive is calling press conferences to talk about classified information.


    Parent

    Why? (none / 0) (#85)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 02:22:23 PM EST
    You think she's gonna leak classified information?

    Who cares?  She's going to be a junior member, who will occassionally get to spout off in front of a camera.

    Cabel news media is just as dangerous to me since they get a large role in shaping people's perceptions of what is the truth - and it's all based on what channel people watch.  THAT is much scarier.

    Parent

    THAT is much scarier. (none / 0) (#88)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 02:25:06 PM EST
    uh huh

    keep talkin

    Parent

    Bachmann IS an idiot (none / 0) (#31)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 11:51:56 AM EST
    But Chris Matthews was out of line on that comment.

    Parent
    Which one :)? (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 11:52:50 AM EST
    no (none / 0) (#34)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 11:56:01 AM EST
    he was not.  putting this person on this committee represents a danger for this entire country.

    I believe that to be a fact.


    Parent

    Yes, he was (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 12:01:46 PM EST
    He can talk about her credentials or lack thereof, her comments and positions, and her publicly stated philosophy - that is fair game.  But a member of the media who has his own show and own platform, making a joke about a member of Congress being an idiot where she is not there to respond, is junior-high bush league.

    It's right up there with the "Hillary Nutcracker", or so many others.  No wonder MSNBC's political shows $uck and no one watches them. This is a FOX News type of thing,

    And Matthews is an a$$.

    Parent

    There have been idots in congress since the (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by ruffian on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 12:41:53 PM EST
    start, certainly since Chris Matthews has been on TV. He is much more likely to point it out if it is a woman.

    It would be par for the course if it takes ridicule of a Republican woman to take him down however.

    Parent

    Tweety is suffering from (none / 0) (#37)
    by BTAL on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 12:16:58 PM EST
    TLWS - Tingly Leg Withdrawal Syndrome.  It is become quite a problem with many in the MSM.

    Parent
    "Less than professional?" (none / 0) (#49)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 12:52:18 PM EST
    Pot meet kettle.

    Parent
    Finished the first draft of my book (4.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Dadler on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 10:24:14 AM EST
    hey Kdog (none / 0) (#1)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 10:20:55 AM EST
    been meaning to ask you about my new idea for a website.

    MedTrader.com

    where you can trade your unused adderall for someone elses unused Klonopin.  turn those unused valium into someone elses unused viagra.

    waddya think?

     

    I've been kicking myself for 3 months (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by ruffian on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 12:45:46 PM EST
    for not selling my Dad's viagra. Could have been the bulk of my inheritance.

    Parent
    some dog rescues and shelters (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by nycstray on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 01:20:05 PM EST
    will take viagra and a few other cross over drugs to use for their dogs. Not too long ago there was a plea out on one of the lists :)

    Parent
    Interesting (none / 0) (#72)
    by ruffian on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 01:31:39 PM EST
    Really wish I had known that at the time.

    Parent
    I never knew it was that expensive (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by nycstray on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 01:40:57 PM EST
    until the plea. They should spend less on advertising . . . .

    Parent
    Do the dogs need Viagra post "fixing"? (none / 0) (#109)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 03:55:54 PM EST
    FYI (none / 0) (#120)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:19:53 PM EST
    For heart conditions:

    Linky

    Parent

    Thank you. My new factoids for today. (none / 0) (#126)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:30:11 PM EST
    Likely story... (none / 0) (#90)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 02:30:16 PM EST
    I know it was you clogging half of America's inbox trying to sell those little blues:)

    Parent
    Brilliant... (none / 0) (#5)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 10:44:28 AM EST
    but that would require residence in a free country my good man...put that idea on the back-burner pending another age on enlightenment.  

    But I think it is a winner...barter is coming back in a big way at the rate things are going...it will be the only way for us working stiffs to survive.

    Parent

    I got it (none / 0) (#7)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 10:51:25 AM EST
    PillPubHub.com

    Parent
    the (none / 0) (#10)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 11:00:31 AM EST
    PillBox.com

    Parent
    Similar Idea (none / 0) (#33)
    by canuck eh on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 11:52:54 AM EST
    A few years ago I was misdiagnosed with a liver infection and prescribed these (very expensive) pills. I took 1 before they realized their error and the rest went in the trash. Never mind swapping I looked for some way to donate them (I have a drug plan so I didn't pay out of pocket)and there was just no avenue- seemed such a waste when there are so many struggling to afford meds

    Parent
    But I bet big pharma... (none / 0) (#50)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 12:55:24 PM EST
    loves it when good drugs go in the trash or pollute our waters via the toilet.

    That's probably why you found no avenue to donate them...and god forbid ya found somebody who needed those meds and gave them away, you'd get your arse locked up for trafficking.

    Parent

    Anyone else as disgusted (none / 0) (#3)
    by kenosharick on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 10:28:21 AM EST
    with Lawrence O' Donnell on MSNBC as I am? I liked him as a guest or fill in on other shows, but OMFG- the man is the smarmiest jerk on TV. He thinks he is smarter than everyone, especially progressives who he belittles on a daily basis. If I want this crap I can watch beck or limbaugh.

    Lawrence O'Donnell (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 03:20:22 PM EST
    did push the tax compromise.

    O'Donnell comes with some pretty good chops though.....He has won Emmys for his writing on West Wing.  He was the chief aide to Senator Moynihan, and probably wrote or edited most of the Clinton Tax increase bill in 1993.  First book was about the police wrongful killing of a suspect.

    He has on his t.v. show Jane Hampsher and another liberal think tank person who are critical of Obama and he disagrees with them.  Says he is a real Socialist but recognizes the reality of what can be accomplished in the Legislative Process.  He would know more than most how that process actually works.

    He argued from the beginning that DADT repeal, START and  9/11 responders health bill would have been impossible without the tax compromise--and that any such tax bill would have been worse had Democrats not voted for the compromise--because the incoming House would have imposed worse terms.....

    Disagree with him.....but not too easy to breezily dismiss....

    Personally can be overbearing and pompous.  But the guy is very, very bright and knowledgeable.

    Clearly would not be a favorite of many here, or those who oppose Obama from the Left.

    But Maddow is the featured "star" of MSNBC.  They give her spots on Meet the Press and she gets to go to Afghansitan to do real reporting....

    Parent

    I like Lawrence (none / 0) (#104)
    by vicndabx on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 03:51:00 PM EST
    he can be bit overbearing and condescending but he's spot on w/r/t the practical side of politics in this era.

    Parent
    He has Ezra Klein on a lot and (none / 0) (#108)
    by byteb on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 03:54:26 PM EST
    he seems to think Ezra is 'all that'.

    Parent
    Well, Ezra is on Keith's show (none / 0) (#112)
    by brodie on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:06:44 PM EST
    a lot too.  I think he might be a regular paid Msnbc "contributor" these days.  

    And he and O'D do have that strong wonkishness and moderate streak in common.

    Parent

    I tend to agree with (none / 0) (#111)
    by brodie on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:04:25 PM EST
    your overall analysis about O'D.  He's not and never has been a pure across the board liberal, nor is he one of those consistently mushy centrists who constantly spout false equivalencies about the parties.  

    Though he seems a little too intent on "reforming" S.S. for my tastes, so long as we understand he's a mixed bag and not easy to categorize and probably better than most cable hosts, he's easier to accept for who he is.  Very much in these respects like his old boss, the hard-to-peg, somewhat mavericky Moynihan, part cautious moderate part bold liberal who also happened to think quite a bit of himself.

    I don't mind that he follows KO and RM.  My main complaint about Msnbc is their 5-days only/week part-time news commitment, with those tabloidy, cheap prison doc blocs dominating the weekend.

    Parent

    Well, O'Donnell's (5.00 / 2) (#127)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:31:55 PM EST
    position on social security is factually wrong and he continues to spread misinformation.  Even Ezra, his guest one night on this discussion, corrected him to no use. Lawrence is not so much wonky on this as he is an ideologue and a dangerous one at that given his disregard for the facts surrounding the viability of the social security system.  

    Parent
    Yep, no question that (none / 0) (#133)
    by brodie on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:36:52 PM EST
    his S.S. position has been annoying and misleading.  Not sure what's motivating him there, or if it's just some psychological fixation he needs to see through until he's either victorious (a substitute for some past wonk battle lost?) or until he's completely discredited on it, on air, in definitive fashion.

    Parent
    We get the prison shows here on MSNBC (none / 0) (#129)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:33:13 PM EST
    on the weekends....and tonight.....Lock up in Sing Sing; Lock up in Florida.....

    Not a big fan of them....

    Parent

    Perhaps the points you make (none / 0) (#118)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:13:44 PM EST
    are reasons for my observation that shorter exposures to Lawrence are way more tolerable than his nightly, hour-long program.  In the case of O'Donnell, that less is more is unrelated to lefty opposition to President Obama or admiration for Rachel Maddow--whose classroom lectures and pedantic repetition  sometimes get tiresome.  But, then, I do have other channels and  can click over to HGTV or the History Channel until the Daily Show.  

    Parent
    I can recommend (5.00 / 0) (#124)
    by brodie on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:25:49 PM EST
    Ancient Aliens over on THC.  ;-)

    Parent
    Sound good to me. (none / 0) (#128)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:32:40 PM EST
    Yeah, part entertainment, part history, part (none / 0) (#130)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:34:10 PM EST
    conspiracy theory.

    Parent
    Hey, I'm game for all (5.00 / 0) (#137)
    by brodie on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:43:15 PM EST
    3 of those parts, mks.  And at least I get a little more actual history -- of a certain kind -- than I do with some other THC fare, like Ax Men and that Truck Driver:  Roads of Doom show.

    Then there's another new show, Decoded.  Seen a couple, and actually found myself more intrigued than I thought possible with their show on the JW Booth Survived theme.  Like to see that one again, plus a follow-up.  Like in a DNA sense, bodies dug up, all that.

    Parent

    yummy (none / 0) (#132)
    by sj on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:36:40 PM EST
    gotta find it.

    Parent
    You do. It's a hoot. (none / 0) (#177)
    by Towanda on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 07:26:44 PM EST
    And especially the regular "experts" on such shows.  Why do they all -- well, the ones with hair -- look like they forgot the correct use of a comb?  Some seriously odd, lopsided haircuts.

    Perhaps it is a result of too much tin foil in the hat.

    Parent

    The Right worships their (none / 0) (#131)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:36:24 PM EST
    media figures.

    The Left generally takes theirs with a grain of salt....

    Who likes authority figures and who does not....

    Parent

    Mebbe, but that might (none / 0) (#140)
    by brodie on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:46:52 PM EST
    only be because the Right is so dominant in the MSM these days.

    Rachel has plenty of fans though, and they are probably passionate about her.  Before her, Keith had (still does to some extent) his many fans.

    Walter back in the day, though especially in retrospect.

    Ed Murrow too.

    Parent

    I am defaulting to Tweety recently (none / 0) (#142)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:52:55 PM EST
    Keith just gets so wound up and off on tangents....

    Maddow can be irritating and overly pedantic.

    O'Donnell is too overbearing and lacks a sense of humor....

    Tweety....I can tune out his foibles much easier....Someone said he is like the whacked uncle who talks too much at Thanksgiving dinner....

    It really all depends on the guests.....

     

    Parent

    joe was amazing this morning (none / 0) (#4)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 10:32:55 AM EST
    tell me again why anyone cares what Donnie Douche thinks?

    Parent
    Donnie is just another one (none / 0) (#6)
    by brodie on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 10:49:20 AM EST
    of Joe's favorite mushy centrist white guys he likes to surround himself with, to go with mushy centrist yes-woman Mika.  All are guaranteed not to offend Joe with an off-key political note.

    Parent
    wanna throw something? (none / 0) (#8)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 10:54:32 AM EST
    Gene Sperling is a Tim Geithner (none / 0) (#13)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 11:22:20 AM EST
    creature but we all have him pegged completely wrong.  Donnie can KMA

    Parent
    you know (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 11:31:12 AM EST
    the thing that struck me as the most absurd about that conversation where Lawrence was opining about how amazing it was that "liberals" would object to picking a lieutenant of a former "liberal" democratic president?

    the complete avoidance of the fact that many many liberals do not consider Clinton a raging liberal.
    the single fact that was Hillarys biggest problem with the base and allowed O to win in the first place.

    idiots.

     

    Parent

    And complete avoidance of the fact (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 11:36:29 AM EST
    that Bill Clinton is on the record saying that he was wrong about certain economic choices and beliefs that he previously espoused, and complete avoidance of the fact that the Clinton presidency, time frame, and set of challenges are at opposite ends of the almost all discernable spectrums from the Obama presidency, and complete avoidance of the fact that Paul Volcker did sit in on an economic meltdown and knows how to deal with it successfully and he has decided to hell with this and he's getting the hell out of there now.  Better to finish life with what few shreds of sanity you have left than die fighting the crazy people.

    Parent
    When people say that (none / 0) (#48)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 12:49:18 PM EST
    Bill Clinton was a moderate but Hillary was sure to be waaaay to the left of Bill, I think it is funny.

    Parent
    Sexist b.s. from you, once again (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by shoephone on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 01:11:11 PM EST
    Shorter ABG: "Hillary is just like Bill. She doesn't have her own mind or her own opinion on anything. She's just his woman."

    You really need to do better than that if you want to be taken seriously.

     

    Parent

    thats not what (none / 0) (#71)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 01:31:25 PM EST
    he said

    Parent
    Gotta agree with you there (none / 0) (#78)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 01:58:28 PM EST
    That's not what I said.

    Everything from her vote in favor of the Iraq war to her position on gay marriage tells me that she'd probably be a moderate democrat as well.  

    Bottom line: Bill and Hillary have very similar political views.  Nothing at all sexist there.  I'd say the same thing about a later Bill Clinton presidency if Hillary had been elected first.

    Parent

    Couple of things: (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by brodie on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 02:24:24 PM EST
    First, when you talk about HRC's politics, most people distinguish between her FP and DP positions.  The former do tend in the moderate-centrist-traditionalist direction; the latter, as with on health care or rights for women or hanging tough in dealing with the GOP opposition tend to be a little more in the liberal direction.

    Second, had she been nommed and elected, I suspect she would have constantly heard from the GOP-MSM about how either Bill would secretly be running the show or how her admin would merely be the third term of Bill's.  I think she would have gone her own way in any event, but might have been even more determined to chart her own course with her own people and somewhat more liberal inclinations overall with the added flak about puppet master Bill.

    I certainly don't believe that, unlike the rather naive and inexperienced Obama, she would have spent much time at all playing kumbaya with the GOP in the hopes one or two of them would go along with her reform bills.  Hillary as FL was always a little sharper and more skeptical in understanding the malign nature of the Repubs than her somewhat too-trusting husband was.  

    I think we would have gotten a more robust Trumanesque firm attitude, even confrontational at times, from a Pres Hillary, certainly in negotiating over key bills.  A lot more bully pulpit and more effectively used than O has displayed thus far.

    Parent

    Interesting perspective, brodie (none / 0) (#113)
    by christinep on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:07:31 PM EST
    It certainly is possible that an HRC presidency would have played against type. Possible...maybe.

    In the past day or so, I look at Bill Daley, and I think about all the Daleys. And Chicago. And the focused ability to administer a metropolis, to accomplish what that takes. (Of course, I couldn't stand the Mayor in the 60s. But, that was a different time and different reason.) After the reverie and the other what-ifs...what clearly stands out is that softies don't politically survive & prosper when working with the Chicago Daley machine. Nah, each passing month and each legislative accomplishment reinforces the probability that "kumbaya" stuff out of those from Chicago has little to do with malleability or softness. It may just be a preferred method of getting from A to B (or moving closer to B.)

    Parent

    Actually (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 02:40:24 PM EST
    they didn't have similar stances on a lot of issues. The irony to me is that Obama for all his complaints two years ago is now to the right of Bill Clinton on almost every issue.

    Parent
    She voted against the FISA-revise. (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:08:37 PM EST
    And stated during the 2008 primaries she spoke out in the WH against NAFTA.  

    Parent
    I really really liked and appreciated (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by brodie on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:23:58 PM EST
    her attempt to get hubby Bill in 1994 not to publicly call for an independent counsel on the bogus Whitewater scandal.  She knew it was the wrong move, and would only encourage the GOP, and so advised him just to release the available docs, which she knew amounted to nothing, and move on with governing as president.

    But Bill heard some other advice in the WH -- Steponoffofus for one -- who strongly counseled him to roll over and do as the GOP wanted.  Dumb decision by Bill which nearly ended up costing him his presidency the way the thing evolved over time, and the way it evolved wasn't entirely unforeseeable ...

    Parent

    Interesting.... (none / 0) (#134)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:37:58 PM EST
    Don't feed the trolls....

    And don't release the long form birth certificate--it would only encourage them....

    Parent

    Correction (none / 0) (#182)
    by Politalkix on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 08:47:38 PM EST
    "She voted against the FISA-revise" only after the primaries were over for all but her most ardent supporters (like the handful of Japanese that were found fighting WW2 in scattered jungles decades after WW2 was over for everybody else). Why do I think that if the vote was held in 2007, BHO would vote opposite the way he finally did and HRC would vote the way BHO eventually did? Because pols are pols...  

    Parent
    Why you ask? (none / 0) (#184)
    by nycstray on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 09:00:37 PM EST
    because you're still an ardent O supporter, that's why.

    If it was a 'risky' vote, (not with the pack) in 2007, O would have voted as all the rest of us could predict. Dawg forbid he go out on a limb or do anything the least bit 'progressive' on his own.

    Parent

    Me (none / 0) (#187)
    by Politalkix on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 09:16:54 PM EST
    "still an ardent O supporter"? Really?
    :-)
     

    Parent
    Are you saying you aren't? (none / 0) (#190)
    by nycstray on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 11:52:14 PM EST
    I thought she said (none / 0) (#186)
    by Politalkix on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 09:05:29 PM EST
    that she could never stop laughing at Ross Perot's charts while he spoke out against NAFTA.


    Parent
    See, that's why (5.00 / 0) (#145)
    by Towanda on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 05:04:56 PM EST
    I just can't take you seriously, ABG.  You can't even get the facts straight, again and again -- but somehow, you seem to get the facts wrong especially when doing so favors Obama, at least in your worldview.

    Parent
    I may often disagree with you (none / 0) (#82)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 02:10:44 PM EST
    but I can read

    Parent
    He said something similar (none / 0) (#159)
    by nycstray on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 06:01:20 PM EST
    recently. Check his comment history . . .

    Parent
    Yes, Ken. I have the exact (none / 0) (#73)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 01:34:31 PM EST
    same reaction to Lawrence O'Donnell.  He was OK as a guest or fill in but his show is unwatchable.  His defense of the governor of New Jersey, Chris Christie, for his Disney vacation while the snow fell was something I might expect from Rush, if I watched him. O'Donnell was in a pretzel by the time he finished, with family comes first, don't need cheap photo ops, staff works on these snow storms in August, are just a part of that screed that I recall.

    Parent
    I think someday his head will explode (none / 0) (#107)
    by byteb on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 03:53:03 PM EST
    on-air. He has a terrible temper and he really seems very impressed with himself to boot.

    Parent
    He has had a few moments, (none / 0) (#119)
    by brodie on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:14:31 PM EST
    agree there.  But after one recent explosion against one or two lib guests, he had one of them (Grayson) back, apologized to him on air, and the guest seemed fine with the adequacy of the apology.

    Btw, Keith and Big Ed also have had their heated moments, KO once being called out for some of his overripe and overwrought Special Commentaries by a spot-on Jon Stewart.  Ed for his part tends to open his shows now with a strong rant, which looks and sounds unscripted, and he too has had to pull it back.

    Tweety has calmed down in recent years.  Before that though, and particularly during the Clinton presidency, during Matthews' GOP Lovefest era, he was a daily mouth-foamer and shouter about Bill.

    Parent

    heartache (none / 0) (#11)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 11:10:47 AM EST
    Ted Nugent: I love Palin but I couldn't vote for her right now

    (right now?  right NOW?)

    Maybe if she shed her knickers (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 11:30:55 AM EST
    for him, he would then.  That dude is so sexist and fubar.

    Parent
    I think (none / 0) (#20)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 11:38:28 AM EST
    they are made for each other.

    Parent
    And besides (none / 0) (#22)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 11:40:38 AM EST
    Who cares what a has-been rock and roller thinks.  He needs to focus on his music and stay out of politics...didn't he chime like that when the Dixie Chicks practically ruined their careers by speaking the truth.

    Parent
    if Nugent (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 11:43:03 AM EST
    had the Chicks career he would probably have other things to do.

    Parent
    He's a crazy yahoo (none / 0) (#24)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 11:42:40 AM EST
    I like it when his daughters give him grief though.  Inspite of whatever he did to himself, it doesn't seem to have affected his children :)

    Parent
    kdog (none / 0) (#14)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 11:28:11 AM EST
    As we are in a new year and baseball season is just around the corner with just 37 days until pitchers and catchers report to Port St Lucie, I thought you might appreciate the write up on the Mets starting pitching listing them as ranked 27th out of 30 in all of baseball by a baseball blog I peek in on.

    27) New York Mets- Johan Santana is on the DL and coming back from major surgery, their #2 starter is a 36 year old knuckleballer who has never pitched half as well as he did last year, and they are still starting Oliver Perez and paying him 12 million dollars for the privilege. At least they have a wealth of minor league talent to fill the gaps, right? Oh no, I forgot, they had Omar Minaya as a GM so the pickings are thinner than Glenn Beck's credibility as a media member.



    Ouch... (none / 0) (#21)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 11:39:53 AM EST
    Gee thanks CG:)

    All I can say is thank goodness for the Jets, and the resurgent Knicks and St. John's Redmen (Red Storm is not in my vocab).

    It's a let the sh*tty contracts expire year for the Mutts in 2011.

    Parent

    When Perez pitched for the Padres, he (none / 0) (#117)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:11:42 PM EST
    was our hope of the future--til he fizzled.

    Parent
    Knuckleball pitchers.... (none / 0) (#152)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 05:44:53 PM EST
    You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line"! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha..."

    the third, which I'm sure Vizzini was about to mention, was "Never build your rotation around a knuckleball pitcher!"

    I'm a Braves fan... Phil Niekro, and even his brother Joe.


    Parent

    Princess Bride quote (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 05:55:05 PM EST
    Nice

    Parent
    Build a rotation (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 06:15:55 PM EST
    around a knuckleballer?

    Inconceivable.

    Parent

    But the knuckleball has no rotation! (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by DFLer on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 09:38:29 PM EST
    (or was that what you meant?)

    Parent
    Three finger of five finger? (none / 0) (#189)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 10:51:06 PM EST
    or two finger or four finger?

    I had a friend in high school who threw the knuckleball-- small hands, five finger. It rotated, but so slowly you watched the stitches. It still danced.

    He got no scholarship offers. the flamethrower with no real control did.

    Parent

    But he's a southpaw. That's got to (none / 0) (#156)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 05:54:08 PM EST
    count for something, no?

    Parent
    Uhhh, he's nuts as well as a 500 pitcher? (none / 0) (#160)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 06:03:19 PM EST
    I'm a southpaw, I can make that observation...

    Parent
    I've got a bizzilion things to do (none / 0) (#39)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 12:23:11 PM EST
    this afternoon but could not prevent myself from sharing the photoshop that Tyler Durden and Zerohedge put up to announce that Ben Bernanke would be testifying today.

    It's terrible and I'm twisted

    from Stinque (none / 0) (#89)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 02:27:54 PM EST
    They were imprisoned for life for a crime that, at most, should have netted them a couple of years behind bars. When they were young, Jamie and Gladys Scott facilitated a robbery that netted the robbers $11. The women had no prior criminal history. No one was killed and the boys who actually committed the robbery escaped with a few months in jail after fingering the young women in a plea-bargain. But the sisters were sentenced to life.

     Now, sixteen years later, Governor Haley Barbour is releasing the Scott Sisters from prison. But it's not for the reasons you might suspect. They aren't being released to right a long-ago wrong. They're being released because th eldest sister, Jamie Scott, requires dialysis treatments which are costing the State of Mississippi about $200,0000.00 a year, and the younger of the two sisters has agreed to donate one of her own, in exchange for their freedom:



    I'm surprised the Governor released (none / 0) (#110)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:02:05 PM EST
    both of them.  (snk.)

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#91)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 02:36:47 PM EST
    BTD is has been way ahead of the curve on a lot of stuff. Orange is just now realizing that Obama has problems with white working class voters and that's he might need them to win.

    Don't you know (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 02:53:02 PM EST
    that's racist to say?

    Of course, when many of these same people voted for him in 2008, they weren't racist.

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 03:02:05 PM EST
    there's plenty of them using race as an excuse for Obama's problems. I've made the point that Kerry had the same problem and he sure wasn't black.

    I see a lot of excuses made for Obama because he is black which is kind of sad. It's just as bad as the tea bagger crazies that hate him because he is black. It seems that both groups can't see past his skin color.

    Parent

    I (none / 0) (#170)
    by lentinel on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 06:39:07 PM EST
    honestly don't know how anybody can know what Obama's "race" is.

    Parent
    Go with how (none / 0) (#178)
    by Towanda on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 07:29:41 PM EST
    people self-identified, per his census form.

    Parent
    If only we had the birth certificate! (none / 0) (#181)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 08:17:47 PM EST
    Pointless. (none / 0) (#185)
    by lentinel on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 09:02:00 PM EST

    What I want to know is why some choose to label Mr. Obama with the race of his father rather than  the race of his mother.

    The country is as messed up with race as ever.


    Parent

    Gosh, because he does? (none / 0) (#191)
    by Towanda on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 12:44:55 AM EST
    Again, Obama self-id'd on the census as African American.  Why disagree with him on how he opts to describe himself?  Perhaps it is not those who respect his self-identification who are messed up.

    Parent
    He (none / 0) (#193)
    by lentinel on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 09:26:13 AM EST
    can identify himself as he chooses.

    Tiger Woods made a point with which I identify.

    Woods made his remarks on "Oprah," when he was asked if it bothered him to be called an African-American. "It does," he said. "Growing up, I came up with this name: I'm a 'Cablinasian.'" As in Caucasian-black-Indian-Asian. Woods has a black father (or to be precise, if I am interpreting Woods' reported ancestry correctly, a half-black, one-quarter American Indian, one-quarter white father) and a Thai mother (or, with the same caveat, a half-Thai, half-Chinese mother). "I'm just who I am," Woods told Oprah Winfrey, "whoever you see in front of you."

    Obama, ultimately, is the person we see before us.

    In my opinion, it ain't pretty.


    Parent

    And... (none / 0) (#194)
    by lentinel on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 09:28:57 AM EST
    in a different interview, Tiger commented that it hurt him for his mother to be left out of an identification of his race because he loved her so much.

    Parent
    Of course, Obama and anyone (none / 0) (#198)
    by Towanda on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 08:45:08 PM EST
    can identify themselves as they choose, and then we ought to follow that -- as people do whom you then criticize for doing so.  

    Yes, he could have designated himself as biracial.  Obama has received a lot of criticism for not doing so, as I'm sure that you are aware, since you agree.  So do you criticize him for not doing so?  Or do you only criticize people who follow his self-identification?  Please explain.

    Parent

    I (none / 0) (#200)
    by lentinel on Sun Jan 09, 2011 at 05:29:47 PM EST
    am trying to get across that I don't care how Obama identifies himself.

    I am simply stating that I don't know how anybody could classify Obama as black or white without being a racist.

    He is who he is.

    Parent

    If (none / 0) (#183)
    by lentinel on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 08:57:12 PM EST
    someone is half and half something, how does anyone determine which half is THE half by which that person shall be identified?

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#192)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 07:15:41 AM EST
    I'm sure the 1/8 law has been abolished or no longer applies but I guess since he looks African American that is what he goes by. I supposed if he looked more Caucasian that is what he would go by?

    But yeah, this country is still messed up about race and technically he really would be classified as bi-racial or other.

    Parent

    Technically, he could have done so (none / 0) (#199)
    by Towanda on Sat Jan 08, 2011 at 08:46:11 PM EST
    on the census; the form is much improved because of pressure by groups such as those who prefer to self-identify as bi- (or multi-)racial.

    Parent
    If your reading the same diary I am (none / 0) (#100)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 03:25:54 PM EST
    on Big Orange, it wasn't an indictment of Obama but rather of latent racism.....not the point I think you were wanting to make....

    Parent
    Some quotes from that Diary on Big Orange (none / 0) (#101)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 03:34:12 PM EST
    This is from TomP:

     

    This data suggests to me that Barack Obama's race, rather than policies, underlies the response of many whites.

    And he quotes this from Ron Brownstein, who was the first prominant Media figure to note the blue collar divide and coined the tern Beer track and Wine track to describe Hillary v. Obama voters:

    These emphatic 2010 results represented another shovel of earth on the grave of the New Deal electoral coalition, centered on working-class whites, that long anchored Democratic politics.

    snip

    Despite that decline, Democrats have survived, and at times thrived, by building a new coalition. They have won the overall popular vote in four of the past five presidential elections, and they recaptured Congress in 2006 with a coalition that now revolves primarily around young people, minorities, and college-educated whites, especially women. That so-called coalition of the ascendant offers Democrats long-term advantages because all of those groups are growing as a share of the population

    It is an interesting diary....not sure that I agree--it tends to rely too heavily on cultural wedge issues working in Democrats' favor from now on--something I agree with, but the Dems bread anbd butter has always got to be working families....

    Parent

    Interesting comment (none / 0) (#105)
    by lilburro on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 03:51:03 PM EST
    from Black Kos:

    Tom on Dems problems with working class whites (8+ / 0-)
    the biggest problem Democrats have is that we don't have strong institutions that counteract the Talk Radio/Evangelical Church/NRA message pulling them rightwards. This is a major problem with the destruction of unions. No this THE major political issue with the destruction of unions.

    Conservatives haven't made gains with blacks because of a combination of a social justice church, civil rights groups, and black talk radio. Latino have civil rights groups, talk radio (outside of Cubans-Americans Latino support Dems in the 70% range). The LGBT community have human rights (civil rights) and LGBT media. Social liberals have blogs like Daily Kos. Feminist who also fall into a number of these groups, have their own groups, blogs, and media figures.

    But we as progressive and Dems don't have any strong institutions that still connect to working class whites.  This is the big hole in the Democratic coalition. It's why we started losing a state like West Virginia as the union brand and membership starts to fade.

    I think there's a lot of truth in this.  And also, as Obama himself said, they didn't really bother to "sell" his policies over the past 2 years.  Not that they were all that impressive in doing big things important to working people(like bringing down unemployment), but take his tax cuts for instance.  Most people believed they hadn't received one.  We certainly need to work on drawing working class whites back, but 2010 was also simply a massive political failure by Dems.

    Parent

    Even if he sold them (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by vicndabx on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:09:53 PM EST
    it wouldn't have mattered.  Traditional manufacturing jobs those working class whites depend are going away because we want everything cheap cheap cheap.  Best thing we can do is go buy a Chevy Volt - anything to help prop up our own green economy.  Manufacturing and construction, and as a by product, blue-collar unions, can come back.

    Parent
    Is it inevitable because of globalization? (none / 0) (#125)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:27:18 PM EST
    That, and (none / 0) (#135)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:42:13 PM EST
    Things like unfair trade agreements,a nd voodoo marketing for years telling us how wonderful foreign cars were over American made, when we now are finding out that the quality of the foreign brands just isn't that good, and certainly not better than American cars. Haven't been for 25 years.

    Parent
    Don't know about that (none / 0) (#138)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:44:02 PM EST
    A good Honda will still run a lot longer than a Chevy Malibu.

    Hate to say it, but yeah.

    Parent

    Honda what? (none / 0) (#141)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:52:27 PM EST
    I can tell you the only foreign car we had (Toyota) was a piece of crap compared to the GM models we had throughout our family's history.

    Like I said - it's based on reputation, not necessarily facts.  Individuals and the media are quicker to look at the quality of foreign cars and say "good" because that's their reputation.  People still talk about America cars being low in quality even though that statement has absolutely no basis in truth and hasn't for 30 years or more.

    Parent

    We all have these car prejudices (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by caseyOR on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 06:30:14 PM EST
    based on personal experience and anecdotal information. My own experience has made a Toyota lover out of me. I bought a new Corolla in 1987 (my first "new" car), drove it until 2006 with no major problems. In that time I was a fanatic about maintenance. I did replace the starter once.

    Since my experience with Toyota was so good, in 2006 I sold the old Corolla and bought a new one. In the last four years of driving it I have had no problems.

    My takeaway is that Toyotas, especially Corollas, are great cars. Obviously, YMMV.

    Parent

    But the most beautiful car (none / 0) (#169)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 06:36:21 PM EST
    of all time is the Auburn roadster...

    ;-)

    Parent

    That car is gorgeous. (none / 0) (#171)
    by caseyOR on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 06:40:24 PM EST
    The similarly named football team? Not so much.  :)

    Parent
    That Toyota is pretty much indestructable..... (none / 0) (#174)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 06:52:04 PM EST
    Ehhh, 1990's GM products (none / 0) (#150)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 05:31:13 PM EST
    weren't the best. And the company's arrogance led to a lot of hard feelings. That said I owned a Buick and a Chevy 1-ton truck during that decade. Some of the cost-saving measures by GM were so aggravating and led to expensive repairs. I has four-- FOUR ignition switches-- the think one puts the key in, not the electrical stuff-- go bad in the Buick. I always replaced with original parts, because I kept expecting my failure analysis education to kick in in reality. Also, silly little things like window clips, those hydraulic pistons to keep hoods from closing, bad welds that rusted and broke, little clips for the windows... nickel and dime and 800 bucks for some of the things, but nary a recall. Now I drove the car 170k miles, but repairs were like the Fiat I bought at 16... constant. Same parts, over and over.

    The truck? still have it, but electrical problems from day one. It was my dad's and I bought it, again the sametype of issues.

    Ford products I had owned before were indestructeblie, it seemed. Except for a Mercury import of mine and one of my brother's.

    There was a time when Detroit didn't cut costs like they did from 1970-oh, 2005 like automakers did to maximise profits. Still, for trucks I prefer Ford or Nissan, even though I own a Chevy. Cars? Honda until Detroit demonstrates I can change.

    It IS fact that the admin side of US automakers pushed for 'economies of scale' savings at the expense of quality.

    Didn't Ford NOT fix the Pinto until lawsuits galore were there even though they were aware of the explosion issues in rear-end collisions?

    Parent

    Sorry you had a bad experience (none / 0) (#154)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 05:52:03 PM EST
    My father had 3 separate Chevy vans - drove them each over 200,000 miles.

    I have had nothing but Chevy cars (including the Cobalt I own now) - never had a problem with any of them.

    Most of the family (extended too) has had GM cars and specifically, Chevys.  I can't think of one of them that have had any kinds of problems that weren't self inflicted. Maybe minor ones - but definitely no major ones.  And dealing with the dealership garages were always good experiences - the Toyota service department - not good experiences.

    And wow-  if you're going to bring up the Pinto, we could also talk about Datsuns....

    Parent

    From my earliest memories, (none / 0) (#158)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 06:00:54 PM EST
    the Datsun wasn't a safety problem. It was as sturdy as a beer can. Can't think of anything else about it.

    Not trying to just mention my experiences, though. There were seious issues from cheapness in those GM automobiles. Could be the vans were made on a different assembly line with better quality control.

    I really just meant from '90-2005-8, nothing earlier for the GM issues. Like the Toyota acceleration issues, first deny, then crunch the numbers and find which is cheaper, settling lawsuits or fixing problems?

    Parent

    I had and loved my Datsun B210 (none / 0) (#175)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 06:53:10 PM EST
    Hatchback....Rusted out bucket of bolts....Never failed me....

    Parent
    Nail on the head (none / 0) (#139)
    by vicndabx on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:46:13 PM EST
    yup.

    There really is no short term fix.  It is a long slog, and too many are caught up in short-term wins and losses to see that we need to get behind and pull for the side now most likely to have our back long-term.  


    Parent

    And I (none / 0) (#172)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 06:44:43 PM EST
    think that is a cop out. He tried to make it about race but it didn't really work.

    And women were completely ignored in the analysis of course.

    Parent

    Women are growing as a share (none / 0) (#179)
    by Towanda on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 07:33:09 PM EST
    of the population?  Now, that's news.

    But it's not so, not in this country (where we don't kill baby girls).  Still the same narrow majority of the population, as ever.

    Any evidence for the rest of the groups, or is the rest of it just as problematic?

    Parent

    More of that crazy cat, Julian Assange! (none / 0) (#143)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 04:59:58 PM EST
    Oh, no (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by Towanda on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 05:09:03 PM EST
    That will endanger our alien relations, even exposing the identities of some of the aliens in our government and putting them in peril. . . .

    Well, heck, that's the argument against Assange's release of other government documents.

    Parent

    I think it shows (none / 0) (#148)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 05:11:08 PM EST
    He just likes the limelight and will say anything to stay in the news and rally people to his cause, whatever that may be.

    Parent
    So, are you saying that he's lying (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by Anne on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 05:51:49 PM EST
    about what's in the cables?  And do you have some sort of definitive source you could provide that would categorically deny that the US government has had any interest in, done research about or spent money on the subject of extraterrestrial life?  Assuming such cables do exist, do you think the point might be that, here we are just crying for money to fund worthwhile programs and help people in need, and the government didn't want us to know they've been spending money on UFO research?

    And what, pray tell, will be your response if those cables are released and show exactly what he says they do?  Will you provide us more of your trenchant insight on the messenger in an effort to distract from the message?

    Honestly, until I read your link, I hadn't heard Word One about Wikileaks and UFOs, which tells me you went to some trouble to find the story.

    Why?  Do you have some need to prove something about Assange?  Are you trying to load up your arsenal so that when there is published something truly incriminating, you will have plenty of ammo to prove...what?  See, this is what I don't get: you can make Assange out to be every variety of crazy you want, but it isn't going to make illegal or unethical behavior on the part of the government of the big banks, as evidenced by internal memos or official documents, just go away.

    You might want to avoid the "gotcha" game until there's something to, you know, actually get.

    Parent

    Ah, it was no trouble Anne! (none / 0) (#161)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 06:05:50 PM EST
    I actually just read things other than what the worshippers of Julian write and actually expose myself to more than one viewpoint!

    I just think he's a fame whore who loves his band of never-questioning followers.  Kinda reminds me of those that followed Obama from the beginning - never questioning and seeing him as all-perfect. But then, I expected you to chime in.  I won't ever convince you and that's fine, but it really is sounding like many around here have sipped the Kool-Aid and The Julian must never be questioned.

    Parent

    Now you just made that up (5.00 / 0) (#166)
    by sj on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 06:33:16 PM EST
    but it really is sounding like many around here have sipped the Kool-Aid and The Julian must never be questioned.

    You're not "questioning" him, you're kind of just throwing things out there and seeing what sticks.   "The Julian" did not generate any of these documents.  He's just posting them.  Maybe.  Some of them.  As are other institutions.

    The documents are what they are.  Most people can see that it is the information that is either important or not.  But you, on the other hand, are entirely fixated on the messenger.

    Parent

    I (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by lentinel on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 06:33:35 PM EST
    haven't seen anybody "worshipping" Julian.

    There are those who value being informed about the activities of our government.

    There are others, like yourself, that would rather involve themselves in the personality of the individual who is making that information available.

    Parent

    I haven't read anything by any (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by Anne on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 07:38:21 PM EST
    Assange-worshippers, actually.  I've read Glenn, read some things in the Guardian and El Pais, and I'm sure you would say that, because those two papers are media partners with Wikileaks, they fall into the "worshipper" category.

    I'm curious: did you ever take the time to read the many articles that Glenn has written about Wikileaks and Assange?  Follow the too-numerous-to-mention links to other publications and sources?  Because I don't get the feeling that you have, and if that's the case, it's really hard to accept that you are someone who exposes herself to more than one viewpoint.

    Where I think you go sideways with all of this is that you mistake my consideration of the message - the content of the materials Wikileaks and its media partners are releasing - with worship of the messenger.  You have mistaken my interest in the principles of free speech with worship of the messenger.

    Am I glad someone has established a venue where information can be anonymized, analyzed and then disseminated to those who care to know things that perhaps their government or their bank has been keeping from them?  Yes, I am.  That still doesn't make me a worshipper of any kind.

    And do I think it's important that the government not pervert the First Amendment so that it can exert more power, keep more secrets, take more freedom from us instead of preserving it for us?

    Yes, I sure do, and that's why I'm more focused on that, on opening up the vault those in power want to keep closed off to us.  Whether it's Julian Assange and Wikileaks, or John Doe and some other cleverly-named enterprise, and given what's been happening over at least the last decade, I think it's long past time someone challenged the wall of secrecy, don't you?

    This is about so much more to me than one man - however imperfect he might be - and I'm sorry that this is so hard for you to understand or see or consider.

    Parent

    Remember Bill Hicks? (none / 0) (#151)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 05:34:01 PM EST
    Find him on Youtube in one of his sketches about Fyffe, Alabama, and the folks who brought shotguns to the UFO siting rallies...

    I now live near Fyffe, but my heritage, education, and genetics are not from here. LA (Lower Alabama) yes, but not the Tennessee Valley.

    Parent

    "Well, looks like we got us a reader" (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by Raskolnikov on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 07:12:17 PM EST
    Never thought I'd agree with Linda Chavez (none / 0) (#146)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 07, 2011 at 05:08:21 PM EST
    Rejecting Extremism

    Now, egged on by radical population control groups, some Republicans want to reinterpret the Constitution and 11 decades of jurisprudence to subvert the 14th Amendment. How can legislators who claim to hold dear the Constitution so flagrantly disregard the rule of law? They are on a fool's errand that will do great damage to the Republican Party.

    There is no question that illegal immigration is a problem, but the way to fix it is not to redefine what it means to be an American in ways that will have unintended consequences. The very same groups that are now pushing this new state legislation, the Federation for American Immigration Reform and its clones, are largely responsible for the mess we find ourselves in now -- the 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act, an outdated attempt at social engineering to restrict legal immigration to the United States. These groups have a radical population control agenda that aims to reduce the present size of the U.S. population, and they see controlling immigration -- legal and illegal -- as the first step.

    Many Republicans who have embraced the anti-illegal immigration aspect of this radical agenda have no idea whom they are in bed with. But the American people are good at sniffing out extremism, and I fully expect they'll reject this latest brand. And the Republican Party would be well advised to do so as well. Republicans cannot claim to be constitutionalists on the one hand and then ignore those parts of the Constitution they find inconvenient on the other.

    And this point needs to be made again and again (my emphasis):

    The legislators who want to restrict citizenship to those children born to citizens or legal permanent resident aliens point to the "subject to the jurisdiction" phrase as exempting illegal immigrants. But on its face, this is absurd -- if illegal immigrants aren't subject to our jurisdiction, how can we claim they are illegal in the first place?