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Wednesday Open Thread

I'm still catching up with work and life, so here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 172 (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by Dadler on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 11:02:09 AM EST
    (I hate just missing a new thread.)

    The day before Halloween isn't so scary. (link)

    Volume 171
    Volume 170

    And my wife comes home today! Wahoo!! Happy Pappy here!!!

    Peace.

    Hello to all TLers from the Land 'o Lincoln. (5.00 / 8) (#72)
    by caseyOR on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 05:26:12 PM EST
    I'll be here at least two more weeks. Then home for a couple of weeks, then back here for my sister's next round of chemo in late November.

    MO Blue, we will be at Barnes Jewish Hospital in early Nov. for my sister's bone marrow transplant assessment. Our plan is to drive down, see the docs and drive right back. So, no time for a mini TL hookup. :-(

    Looks like I will be commuting back here every month until May or June as my sister will be in the hospital one week every month for chemo and then sent home immediately after. It is that time right after chemo, when her immune system has been destroyed, that is most iffy for her. Lots of opportunity for infections of all sorts to take hold. So, she needs someone at home with her.

    I am learning to clean and flush her IV lines (she has a chest catheter with two lines). I am a little bit scared that I will miss an air bubble, send the air into her line and kill her. The nurse insists that a bubble or to of air will not do any damage, but I am still wary.

    Right now I am making good use of the hospital's Wi-Fi to send this little message to all of you.

    I read TL everyday while sitting at my sister's bedside. It is grounding for me in the midst of this insanity. Even the arguments are a comfort to me. So, thank you, Jeralyn, for maintaining TL, and thank you all TLers for being you. That's right, all TLers, every single one of you. :-)

    Thinking of you, your sister and your families (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Angel on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 05:31:55 PM EST
    right now, and will continue to do so.  

    Parent
    Your sister is very lucky that (5.00 / 3) (#74)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 05:34:20 PM EST
    she has you for a sister.

    Let me know if I can help you in any way and good luck to you and your sister both.

    Parent

    Blessings and other good thoughts (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by sj on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 05:38:11 PM EST
    To your sister and you. I understand your fears -- I would have the same ones -- but I'm sure you'll do splendidly.

    Parent
    You are a wonderful sister, caseyOR (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by christinep on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 05:48:01 PM EST
    Whoever coined the term "labor of love" surely must have meant what you describe.  While I am sure that it may not even feel like labor, what you are doing for your sister and yourself is the very definition of love in its purest form.  While I cannot know you, I'll say a prayer for both of you.  Stay optimistic and strong.

    Parent
    Been missing your comments, casey, but (5.00 / 4) (#112)
    by Anne on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:08:36 PM EST
    being there for your sister is a lot more important; she is lucky to have you as a support as she goes through what sounds like a truly grueling process.

    I will keep both of you in my thoughts and prayers, and hope she does well and comes through the other side of this.

    Check in when you can, and let your sister know we're pulling for her!

    Parent

    God bless.. (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by desertswine on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:27:31 PM EST
    you and your sister.

    Parent
    Much love to you Cap'n... (5.00 / 2) (#132)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 09:32:13 AM EST
    If there is anything I/we can do, you know what to do.

    Hang in there kid...we love you too!

    Parent

    All of you, thanks for your warm and (5.00 / 3) (#143)
    by caseyOR on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 10:46:34 AM EST
    supportive comments. And for your thoughts and prayers. We are not a religious lot, lapsed Catholics all around for my family, but we are grateful for each and every kind thought and prayer. My sister needs all the help she can get.

    It is so interesting to me that this motley crew(:-) ) of blog commenters here at TL has formed such a warm community. Like many of you, I have spent time at other blog sites where the vitriol is like mother's milk and nary a kind or caring word is to be found. TalkLeft is not one of those blogs. Thank gawd.

    It is a testament to the decency and humanity of Jeralyn and BTD and the community of commenters here.

    Parent

    Best to you and your sister (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 11:32:02 AM EST
    I hope the LoL is hospitable to you both.  I hope you are able to enjoy some leaves and nice fall weather.

    Will keep up with your travels and TL get-togethers...never know when I will find myself back there myself.

    Parent

    At a hearing Tuesday (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by Edger on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 11:15:45 AM EST
    about NSA spying, the guy who runs the House committee that is supposed to conduct oversight of American intelligence agencies was - and who knows why - interrogating American University College of Law professor Stephen Vladeck over his concerns about NSA surveillance programs, rather than interrogating NSA spies or administration enablers of them.

    It went like this...

    "Maybe the fact that we haven't had any complaints come forward with any specificity arguing that their privacy has been violated clearly indicates, in ten years, clearly indicates that something must be doing right--somebody must be doing something exactly right."

    Vladeck rightly asked, "But who would be complaining?" And that's when Rogers dropped this piece of knowledge.

    "Somebody whose privacy was violated. You can't have your privacy violated if you don't know your privacy is violated, right?"

    I'll just repeat that last bit, in case you didn't read it right.

    "You can't have your privacy violated if you don't know your privacy is violated, right?"

    Nobody else argued with him, apparently. Handy having a GOP rep in charge of oversight of an administration agency, I guess. Bipartisanship is like an onion? There are layers upon layers upon layers concealing each other and it'll still smell no matter how many you peel off?

    Like Puzzles? (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 12:58:06 PM EST
    here's a doozy of a beuracratic maze.

    Garble (5.00 / 2) (#191)
    by Edger on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 03:06:10 PM EST
    Edward Snowden's email provider, Lavabit, chose to shut down rather than let the feds spy on its customers, but founder Ladar Levison isn't exactly closing up shop. With an assist from encryption company Silent Circle, he's developing Darkmail, a new kind of email system that eliminates what the Wall Street Journal terms the "Achilles' heel" of Lavabit. In that case, "government access" was the weakness, with the feds able to demand encryption keys that would have opened the gates to all users' info. Darkmail will essentially render such a demand useless by putting encryption keys in the hands of users. The private keys would be stored on a user's computer and used to encrypt that user's messages. The only thing Darkmail would be able to pass to the government would be "garble."
    [...snip...]
    It won't be foolproof, but snoops would have to launch Trojan spyware on the computer of each person they want to track--impossible on a large scale. For all that security, a Darkmail account will cost you, but the technology's code will available to other companies to duplicate. "We want to proliferate the world with this architecture," Silent Circle's CEO tells the Verge. It's expected to launch in Q2 of next year.


    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 173 (4.50 / 4) (#125)
    by Dadler on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 08:42:17 AM EST
    Halloween Special -- She cuts the big orange squash like she's in the operating room. (link)

    And the two other Halloweeners from this week:

    Volume 172
    Volume 170

    Happy All Hallow's Eve. Stay away from those razor apples. Peace.

    Abdul, you really gave me a 3 rating? (5.00 / 2) (#139)
    by Dadler on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 10:30:19 AM EST
    Suck it. ;-)

    Parent
    He seems to be (5.00 / 2) (#164)
    by sj on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 12:36:47 PM EST
    tripping down the thread dropping 3 ratings willy nilly.  Pay him no mind.

    We stalwarts still appreciate you.

    Parent

    yeah, he gave me a three too... (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by fishcamp on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 12:43:20 PM EST
    but I actually deserved it.

    Parent
    Don't pay much mind to ratings... (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 12:46:17 PM EST
    nor rate except on rare rare occasions.

    But I would think all should be proudest of the low ones...means you struck a nerve and maybe hopefully provoked thought and reflection.

    Parent

    Okay (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by sj on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 12:54:38 PM EST
    That made me laugh.

    Parent
    Maybe he really (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by Zorba on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 12:48:21 PM EST
    is tripping.  
    What does a 3 rating really mean, anyway?  You neither like nor dislike a comment?  You're militantly neutral?  
    I mean, why bother?

    Parent
    Never you mind, Dadler (none / 0) (#147)
    by Zorba on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 11:06:01 AM EST
    We love you.    ;-)

    Parent
    Well.. (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 11:29:36 AM EST
    think about it: it's a holiday with "anti-christian" pagan roots that encourages candy-grubbing 47ers to expect something for nothing when they could be gainfully employed were it not for anti-child labor liberal meddling with Free Markets.

    Parent
    Looks Like Sebelius... (4.40 / 5) (#10)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 12:39:57 PM EST
    ...is going to be the fall person over ACA online implementation.
    Pressed by the congresswoman on who was responsible for the failures, Sebelius said: "Hold me accountable for the debacle. I'm responsible."

    LINK
    I hope at some point we find out what really happened, but so far this administration has been very opaque when it comes to their bad deeds.

    I find it extremely annoying that no one seems to want to say how many folks have signed up.  There is no way in hell they don't know and I think their belief that this is the right path is killing the little credibility they have.

    Right now I don't see how it survives, it's a complete failure in every sense of the word.  Some people are benefiting, probably a lot, but you can't roll out a controversial law with a pack of lies, a website that simply doesn't function, and higher costs with less service.

    This is a play-by-play on how not to do it, and the continued lying makes anything they say, unbelievable.

    No rollout of this size ever hit the ground (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 12:49:46 PM EST
    Sprinting but whatever.  Medicare part D was a disaster for 90 plus days but hey.....whatever.

    With each passing day more and more Americans are being made happy by what is being made available to them via ACA, will many on Talkleft ever notice or get the memo?

    Parent

    When It's Actually True... (5.00 / 5) (#16)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 01:14:22 PM EST
    ...sprinting, running? I would call this a no limbed person being tossed out and just laying there squirming while the folks who threw them out there are scrambling in front of Congress claiming someone else did it.

    And for each American made happy there is another who just realized the plan they liked and were promised they could keep, disappears.  And another is being charged more for less.

    You know you are in trouble when you have to trot out a GWB disaster as the equivalently screwed up rollout.

    Parent

    sprinting (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by woodchuck64 on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 02:52:35 PM EST
    It's quite a success if 700,000 applications have already been submitted.  

    Technical problems?  What a giant YAWN, welcome to the present!  Happens with every new website, why is this any different?  Sure wish I had the authority and bullheaded chutzpah to order Congressional Hearings every time Amazon or Reddit or Google is down.

    And for each American made happy there is another who just realized the plan they liked and were promised they could keep, disappears.  

    This is misinformation.  The ACA sets minimum standards for health plans so if a plan is being cancelled now, that person should be grateful they're no longer getting scammed with some cheap but useless health plan.  Haven't we all experienced being denied reimbursement or coverage for a perfectly normal and routine procedure because there's a line we missed buried in 400 pages of fine print making up the typical health insurance contract?  A lot of that crap is getting swept away.

    And another is being charged more for less.

    And another is being charged less for more.  It evens out and should eventually be a net win for consumers.

    Parent

    That's a ... (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by sj on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 03:09:12 PM EST
    ...lot of wood you're chucking.

    Parent
    woodchuck: The need for a "story" (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by christinep on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 03:48:05 PM EST
    I'm beginning to suspect that the media has filled this week with the "story" it needs after the drama play about government shutdown/default and before the next related crisis.  It just may be that there will be another interim filler along about Tues/Wed next week with the elections in Virginia and New Jersey ... the politicos will really salivate if "moderate" Christie slams the gubernatorial race while the whole very conservative Repub line falls on its face in Virginia (with the Clinton story on the side) ... and, then, it will be back to "Has the ACA website improved & what are the numbers" at the end of the month.  For December, the usual check on the economy and Christmas shopping --- leading up to movement or non-movement by the bipartisan committee to resolve the late-January expected crisis.

     Yoi, wouldn't it be nice if the bar-stool crowd that calls itself journalists would dispense with the theme of the week and actually report events!

    Your common-sense comment is refreshing.

    Parent

    HA HA HA! (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 04:16:16 PM EST
    "Common sense?" Thanks for the laugh.

    Woodchuck may want to check his numbers before throwing them aroun.  "700,000 applications"?

    Look behind the curtain:

    Officials announced Thursday that 700,000 people have applied for insurance plans in both the 36 states that are using a federally run health care exchange and the 14 states running their own exchanges.

    But don't apply that 700,000 application figure to the 7 million enrollment goal. For starters, there's no guarantee that all 700,000 will ultimately enroll in a health insurance plan.

    Medicaid programs are the public health insurance programs run by states to provide low-income people with health insurance.

    As the law was originally envisioned, more than half of the uninsured people in the United States -- 24 million or so, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation -- who would be getting insurance through Obamacare would have been getting Medicaid. Anyone who makes less than 138% of the poverty level -- about $27,000 for a family of four -- isn't eligible for federal subsidies to buy insurance, so Medicaid is effectively their only option.

    So it's not necessarily a bad thing if more than half of the people getting insurance under Obamacare so far are getting Medicaid. But in many of the states operating their own exchanges, new Medicaid enrollees account for more than half of the people who have obtained insurance under Obamacare since October 1.

    Guess someone is doing reporting as opposed to taking the word of the administration!

    Parent

    And let's not forget (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 05:08:05 PM EST
    The co-ops, which are supposed to help the very poorest who still don't qualify for Medicare or Medicaid.

    They may not survive, which means, many of the people who need access to a health care plan will not be able to get them.

    Evergreen Health Co-op of Maryland is a nonprofit insurer that got started with a $65 million loan from the federal government. Just days into the Obamacare enrollment fiasco, CEO Dr. Peter Beilenson had to blow up his business plan.

    "We actually called a meeting immediately, upon learning of he difficulties with the exchange, of our entire 35-person staff and said, 'Listen, guys, we're going to have to switch our marketing strategy, our strategy of going after folks," Beilenson said.

    That means forgetting about individuals for now and instead targeting small businesses the old-fashioned way, with phone calls and TV ads.

    The 23 small co-ops across the country that are part of the Affordable Care Act exchanges are intended to provide competition. As they adjust to stay afloat, some analysts worry that Obamacare, as designed, might not.

    Their biggest fear is that with the website problems, more of the people who enroll will be the sickest and most motivated. If that happens, insurers would have no choice but to raise premiums and that could cause more healthy customers to flee.

    In the insurance industry, that's known as the "death spiral" -- and experts say if that were to come to pass, the Obamacare business model would collapse.



    Parent

    That dude should think again.  With ObamaCare's 20% cap on non-benefit coats, signing up small employers one at a time is simply too costly for his group to stay ObamaCare compliant.  This is probably time to fold shop and open a bowling alley.

    Parent
    Is that all? (none / 0) (#84)
    by woodchuck64 on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 06:05:06 PM EST
    So why is this a big deal?  If 700,000 applications have been submitted, that basically means the website works, it will continue to work, it got the job done, it's filling a need, end of story.

    Now as to whether or not the enrollment figures reflect young and healthy people, they probably do not as that demographic has little incentive to get started.  However, after tax penalties loom for going uninsured, then the ACA will reach it's 7 million target, little doubt about that.  


    Parent

    Actually, no (none / 0) (#122)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 07:06:14 AM EST
    If 700,000 applications have been submitted, that basically means the website works, it will continue to work, it got the job done, it's filling a need, end of story.

    That's absolutely NOT what it means.  Most of those 700,000 have been enrolled through state websites - NOT healthcare.gov, which is the subject of this dicussion and the gross incompetence of the administration in managing this process.

    Get your facts straight.

    Parent

    And since (none / 0) (#127)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 08:48:28 AM EST
    most of those 700,000 are for MEDICAID, and not through the echange plans, your comment once again, makes no sense.

    Parent
    Nit picking (none / 0) (#189)
    by woodchuck64 on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 02:50:40 PM EST
    Fine, cut the number in half to 350,000. Still not bad for a month.  What's the big deal?

    Parent
    Again (none / 0) (#190)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 03:00:46 PM EST
    the big deal is that since most of these are through state exchanges and for Medicaid, they have absolutely nothing to do with Healthcare.gov or people buying individual plans through the federal exchange.  So your 700,000 (or 350,000 that you pulled out of nowhere) mean absolutely nothing.

    But you are just continuing to spew nonsense, much like the administration.

    Parent

    So zero? (1.00 / 1) (#196)
    by woodchuck64 on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 03:53:45 PM EST
    So your argument is that zero people have used Healthcare.gov or bought individual plans?

    Tell you what, since it seems we won't get any actual enrollment data until November, why don't you make a prediction what that figure will be.  I'll do the same.

    I'll stick with 350,000.

    Parent

    Okay, you have now (none / 0) (#199)
    by sj on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 05:00:28 PM EST
    proven that you are not a serious commenter.

    Let me see... apparently I must choose between zero and.... 350,000.

    Dang, I sure wish there were some numbers in between.

    Oy.

    Parent

    Ho Hum (none / 0) (#192)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 03:07:02 PM EST
    Another day, more clarifications

    Unfortunately, the federal government has yet to release any detailed information about enrollments through the Healthcare.gov website. All we know so far is that around 700,000 applications have been received through the federally operated exchange that serves 36 states plus the other 14 state-run exchanges. That number doesn't indicate, however, how many individuals actually enrolled in health plans.

    We do know, though, detailed numbers from several of the states operating their own exchanges. And those details show a consistent trend: higher numbers of people are enrolling in Medicaid instead of private health insurance plans.

    New York reported that 64% of exchange enrollees signed up for Medicaid. In Kentucky, 82% of the total number of individuals enrolling through the state exchange qualified for Medicaid. Those figures were relatively low, though, compared to Washington, where 87% of all enrollees were for the hybrid federal-state health program.

    Why does this matter? If these trends hold true for the other states, it could mean that much higher numbers of young people are enrolling in Medicaid instead of private insurance. These insurance plans rely on plenty of younger, healthier Americans to sign up. If there aren't enough of them, insurance companies take losses in the near term and have to increase their rates over the longer term.

    Of course, the higher rates are, the less likely that healthy individuals will buy insurance. If this scenario continues unchecked, it could result in what is known as a "death spiral," where insurance becomes too costly for most individuals.



    Parent
    The way the articles are written, it isn't (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 03:15:12 PM EST
    easy to figure out that "applied" refers to creating the account you need in order to be able to shop the plans - it doesn't mean you actually submitted an application to obtain insurance.

    I think the numbers have to be terribly skewed - I don't need insurance through the exchange, and if I did, I'd have to get it through the MD one, but that doesn't mean I might not be curious enough to want to window shop - and I can't imagine I'm the only one.

    Parent

    Yep (5.00 / 2) (#197)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 03:59:57 PM EST
    And when I had to "sign up" to try and browse (which I wasn't able to do anyway), I ended up "applying" twice under two different email accounts because I thought one hadn't worked or had been locked.  I know I wasn't the only one. There were reports of this happening to thousands of people.

    So yeah, I don't think by November 15th (as the head of CMS testified) it will be anywhere near 700,000 (or 350,000) people that will have signed up for and will be starting new policies bought through the federal exchange.

    But some here like to take the administration's word for it.

    Parent

    WTF? Net win? (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by sj on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 04:22:55 PM EST
    It evens out and should eventually be a net win for consumers.
    That's spreadsheet thinking. I'm not a "consumer" or a cell in spreadsheet;  I'm a person with needs in the real life world.

    As I explained to MT above, someone else's problem doesn't "even out" my benefit. And it doesn't change another real person's issues with affordability. No. One person "wins". Another person "loses". Does person A's "win" help person B in any way whatsoever?

    Take your "evens out" and see if your doctor of choice will accept that. Will your prescriptions be "evened out"?

    Seriously? What kind of "consumer" wrote this sorry excuse of apologism. All I know is that it wasn't a "consumer" with specific medical needs.

    Parent

    net win (3.50 / 2) (#98)
    by woodchuck64 on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 06:44:11 PM EST
    In context, all good laws are net wins if you include the birth pangs of implementation.  Government of this century is just not good enough to implement perfect laws that gently benefit all equally from inception on, it's too difficult of a problem.  As far as I can tell, the best government can do is affect change that eventually, somewhere in the future, benefit all absolutely.  I don't mean to suggest that net benefit is a target.  Reducing negative or unintended side-effects to zero is the target.  Benefiting all is the target.

    Parent
    Okay (none / 0) (#108)
    by sj on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 07:06:08 PM EST
    I see where you get your terminology -- even if I can't get behind it. Thanks for the clarification.

    Parent
    It (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by lentinel on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 10:06:19 PM EST
    "evens out"?

    Single payer would have avoided all this.

    Would you want to be on the wrong end of the "evening out" part?

    And what is this "should be eventually a net win for consumers"? Should be? Eventually?

    It's not as if there aren't enough countries with functioning healthcare systems on which we could have modeled ours. But oh no. Obama said we needed to find one that would suit our American way of doing things: ie: somebody gotta make a nice profit out of providing healthcare. Somebody gotta make a hefty profit out of selling prescription medication.

    Nertz.

    Parent

    Here's what's the most galling (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 12:47:40 PM EST
    The fact that the administration and its cheerleaders keep throwing out the "it's just 5% of the people who buy their own insurance" - as if 14 million is a throwaway number.

    Parent
    YAWN?!? (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by coast on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 11:09:41 AM EST
    Please provide an example of another website that cost in the range of $300M to $600M that didn't provide the basic functions that it was intended to perform.

    Parent
    Go ahead and sob it out hysterically (1.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 01:21:09 PM EST
    That you have lost that plan that was all about leaving you and your pre-existing conditions graveside as soon as it was convenient and highly profitable,  I've got 15 minutes to spare here for that full grieving.

    Parent
    I Haven't Lost Anything... (5.00 / 6) (#26)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 01:58:18 PM EST
    ...and I have great insurance, not sure what that has to do with anything.

    I was ecstatic as anyone else when ACA passed.  But denying this isn't a major F-up is denying reality.

    Doesn't it bother you at all that the program that is helping your family is hurting others, folks already on shoe string budgets paying more for less, or is that just not something we should not discuss ?

    Does it not bother you that they refuse to tell us how many people signed up, to me that is pretty GD important number.  Doesn't it bother you that the legislation that you love is being rolled out with such incompetence ?  

    There is an entire party waiting to abolish the legislation and the people who championed for it and who are trying to save it can't seem to tell the truth or manage to have a functioning method for people to sign up for it.

    They have about a year to get it so their own party members can campaign on it, if R's can successfully campaign against it, it's gone.  Unlikely, unless of course this things keeps at it's current pace, eating up half the headlines and having officials in front of Congress explaining how it's not their fault it totally sucks.

    Parent

    Well I'm glad you can admit that something (1.00 / 2) (#97)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 06:43:25 PM EST
    Good comes of this in the midst of paragraph after paragraph after paragraph of what a phuck up you think it all is and.....Obama hisssssssssssssss

    Parent
    Bugs are to be expected... (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 01:28:45 PM EST
    but when the f8cking website cost somewhere in the range of 70 million to 300+ million, surely the contractors who developed the damn thing coulda done better than this.  Whole thing reminds me of NYC's Citytime scandal.

    I'd bet a couple dudes from Anonymous coulda done better this in their mom's basements for a fraction of the cost.  

    I hear ya there is a lot to like for the previously uninsurable with pre-existings and others...but for the vast majority all they're gonna see is a big fat rate hike and them ever-stagnant wages and a website that don't work. Perception is reality. The idiots named the damn law the Affordable Care Act!  Shoulda called it the "Pay Off The Insurance Cartel To Cover The Chronically Ill Act".  But that would be too honest...

    Parent

    I agree that there seems to possibly be (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 01:35:56 PM EST
    Some incompetence on selection of contractors.  I emphasize "seems" though because I am not wasting my time watching the hearings.  ACA is a law, it is one that forces us all to care about and participate in our nation's healthcare system.  It serves the greater good.  I am for implementation and not constant nonstop castigation.

    Parent
    I think it remains to be seen (4.40 / 5) (#24)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 01:49:47 PM EST
    if it serves the greater good.  The insurance co good, for sure it serves that.  Those with pre-existing conditions, it makes it easier to get insurance.  Whether that insurance will be any good also remains to be seen...lets see how many loopholes the insurance companies can find and exploit when it comes time to pay some f8cking claims, like they are exploiting the law to jack up rates now.  Subsidies are good, if you're broked*ck enough to qualify.

    As for the website...I hope it's simple incompetence and not straight-up crony-corruption like Citytime.

     

    Parent

    I couldn't disagree more (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 02:29:23 PM EST
    About it serving the insurance companies and not the people.  Before ACA you paid them and hoped and prayed they didn't eff you.  Not only are those days over but exactly how much they can take us all for is a voting issue now.  Based on how abusive they ever want to get, that leads to single payer.

    We aren't the only nation under private highly regulated insurance, and it is working for them.  I have spent a great deal of time in hospitals, some of the most tragic, and I see people demoralized.  If you got unlucky you joined them.  Once the demoralization is dealt a healthy blow I see people fighting for the healthcare we all deserve at the voting booth every election.

    Parent

    Again.. (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 02:35:31 PM EST
    it remains to be seen if those dark days are over...but I admire your optimism.  Time will tell.

    I tend to side with Dadler above...if it came out of this totally broken and corrupted political system , the big winner is the insurance industry, best we get is some bones.  

    But I'm sure glad the bones benefit you...my rate increase ain't gonna kill me, I expect to get f8cked by my insurance company, with or without the ACA.  It's like the sunrise.

    Parent

    The U.S., a nation under a (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 02:58:41 PM EST
    highly regulated private insurance system?

    Surely you forgot the snark symbol.

    Parent

    "Those days are over?" Really? (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by Anne on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 03:23:56 PM EST
    As for being highly regulated, we certainly do not have the level of regulation that some of the countries with public/private systems have, not even close.  And as long as the insurance companies are in the pockets of our lawmakers, that level of regulation isn't going to happen.  And there's no guarantee that the regulations that do exist won't go the same way the financial industry regulations went after a couple years.  Dodd Frank is a shell, and the lobbyists are still working hard to get rid of whatever regulation remains.

    I was under the impression that pretty much everything is a voting issue - maybe we don't all vote on the same issues, but that's why we vote, isn't it?  If we could get a nationwide referendum on the ballot to establish a single-payer system, and pass it, I might agree that voting would make a difference, but when I think of all the people I've voted for because of their positions on specific issues, who have subsequently just abandoned them - and me - I could cry.

    Tracy, we all get that you support the ACA, that you are benefiting from it, and no one here begrudges that or is resentful that you have more protections given Josh's special needs.

    And there will be others who benefit - no one is denying that.  The door has been opened to obtaining health insurance for many people, and given that that is the ticket people need to access actual care, that's a good thing.

    And given that this is what we have to deal with, I sincerely hope that the insurance obtained through the exchanges turns out to be all that people need it to be.

    You have to remember, I think, that people have been waiting almost 4 years to be able to sign up for a plan - and I can't be the only one who wonders how, with that much lead time, the actual rollout could be so badly managed.  It has set people up to be suspicious and anxious about what happens next.

    Tracy, you're an old hand at the insurance game - you've fallen into the potholes and fought your way out, you've learned the lingo and figured out when you were being bamboozled.  You know who to talk to to get something done, who has the clout and when to cut to the chase.

    People who don't have insurance, or haven't had it in a long time, are sitting ducks.  They haven't been well-served by their representatives, no one's been really honest about what health care with insurance is going to look like.  No one's told them about what out-of-network means in terms of cost, or explained what balance-billing is.  How many of them are checking the participating provider lists and finding out that they can't go to the closest hospital, because it's not in the network?  When they schedule a surgery, how many of them will find out too late that, oops, the anesthesiologist and the pathology lab weren't in the network so a procedure they thought they could afford just became an expensive lesson they don't know how they will pay for?

    People talk about "net gains," as if somehow one person's lowered premium wipes out someone else's raised one, but we both know it doesn't work that way.  Our money isn't pooled, even if the risks are supposed to be.

    This is already too long, but I guess I just want to say that we do have to deal with what is, but we don't have to roll over and play dead - and when you chide people for not being sufficiently rah-rah about the ACA, it smacks of "just STFU and be grateful it isn't worse" - and that doesn't really work for me, sorry.

    Parent

    I don't think anyone should STFU (3.50 / 2) (#64)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 04:51:54 PM EST
    But concern about possible difficulties has graduated to concern trolling.  The insurance companies will always have to be held in check just as every other company in this country must be and military must be, to name just a few.  When it came to healthcare though they divided and conquered us, some of us were luckier than others and that is all, and that is over.  Too many of us are now all in same boat...good luck on bamboozling us, just like good luck bamboozling us on Social Security and wars with drafts.

    Parent
    Really? (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by sj on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 05:15:11 PM EST
    But concern about possible difficulties has graduated to concern trolling.
    That's a lot of trolls. Practically an Orc Army.

    Parent
    You all really should be ashamed of the sheer (1.00 / 2) (#86)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 06:09:21 PM EST
    Obama hatred on this blog.  I already know you won't be, but I can still say it.

    Parent
    I'm not ashamed about (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by sj on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 06:19:59 PM EST
    other people's feelings. Why should I be? I neither support him nor hate him. I have no reason to do either one as I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican nor a personal acquaintance.

    Many people who have met him seem to like him. I haven't. So I am free to ignore the person and merely react to his policies.

    And on that score, I am repulsed by most of his policies. Being non-partisan means I can say that out loud. Why on Earth should I be ashamed of that?

    And I can still say that.

    Without being monitored.

    I think.

    I hope.

    I don't know.

    Parent

    Obama Vitriolic (none / 0) (#95)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 06:41:38 PM EST
    The only adjective that comes to mind reading this place right now.

    Parent
    You know what? (3.83 / 6) (#102)
    by sj on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 06:54:33 PM EST
    I just did a word search on this entire thread and until you entered it with your accusations, the only time the word "Obama" showed up was in article extracts.

    This is only a suggestion and is by no means a mandate, but I'm pretty sure that the vitriol that is sure to erupt (yes, from you) would be more at home on your Facebook page.

    You came here looking for a fight. It is you who should be ashamed.

    I already feel nauseous from the comments on "immigration reform" so I will try take control of my OCD that wants to read everything. If I can do that I will ignore you for the next while.

    You fight ugly and with meanness and I don't want any part of it.

    Parent

    And right on target (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by sj on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 07:26:10 PM EST
    Here is one of the other commenters who is unable to read for content and intent. PK is on the loose. I know I'm on the right track when Politalkix starts troll rating. She only loves O-doration. She hates neutral even more than she hates the GOP.


    Parent
    I don't hate Obama (5.00 / 3) (#104)
    by scribe on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 06:55:42 PM EST
    That would imply some sort of emotional attachment to or investment in him, neither of which I have.

    Fact:  the cheapest plan in my state for someone in my demographic costs something about $450/month.  My rent is $800/month.  I don't see the people who get lower premiums under this bill lining up to recompense me for lowering their premiums.  I don't expect to, either.

    Fact:  I haven't seen a doctor in over a decade.  I haven't had health insurance in two.  I don't care.  I understand and accept that one day I will die and I'm OK with that.  In the past, if and when I needed medical attention, when I walked in I told the doctor I'm paying cash so don't think about milking me, just get done what needs be done and be done with it.  Every time I've said that to a doctor I got a look of relief - they don't have to bother with insurance forms.

    Fact:  Unlike on Republican-leaning sites, any hate Obama gets on this site he's earned.  This was and is a Democratic-leaning site and Obama was supported here back in 2008.  Since then he's undertaken to f*ck over the Democratic party and especially its Democratic wing, often with a subtle smirk of enjoyment on his face.

    Fact:  I worked the election for Obama in 2008.  I felt then, and still do now, that he was the better of the two choices then.  We would have had President Palin by 2010 if she had to cut McCain's throat to get there and I have little doubt she would have.  But this debacle is all Obama's making:  he wanted this bill and only this bill and p*ssed away the first 14-plus months of his first term and a filibuster-proof majority in both houses to get it.  He has no one to blame for it but himself.

    Parent

    Well Tracy (5.00 / 4) (#114)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 09:41:13 PM EST
    The fact that my insurance company dropped my plan, raised my rates by a $1000/yr, and cut my coverage so that I have to pay for just about everything out of pocket even with my high priced insurance isn't concern trolling. It's a fact.

    And the fact that even though I qualify for subsidies I am not buying a plan on the Exchange because the Exchange plans have terrible doctor networks, meaning NO protection from catastrophe, is not concern trolling.

    People in Concord, New Hampshire have to drive TWENTY-FIVE miles to go to an in-network hospital.  This is Medicaid-level doctor access. Obamacare is JUNK insurance.  That is not concern trolling.

    Hospitals are having to sue to try and get on Exchange plans.  Major doctor and hospital networks are being left off the list.  That is not concern trolling

    For some reason, you're so enamoured with this policy you refuse to face the facts.  

    And it's just crazy that you're so pro-Obamacare.  Obamacare didn't touch Tricare.  In fact Congress wrote legislation specifically stating that Obamacare wouldn't touch Tricare.  

    And maybe you think that Obamacare is going to help Josh have insurance when he's older. If Obamacare is still around, you're right, he'll have Quasi-Medicaid.  He'll be fighting with insurance even more than you are now.  

    And you're defending the law and calling people who speak reality about it Republicans.  You're calling people who are suffering from this law Republicans.  You need to stop being so heartless to us.

    Parent

    And we are all going to be invested now (none / 0) (#66)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 04:59:43 PM EST
    I have THE COUSIN who runs around in the Escalade who has the wife with the face lifts and the freshened boob jobs paid for in cash...and who skates on all other healthcare bills because our system as it existed was so broken he could and it didn't really affect his credit.  He's hopping psychotic mad right now because he must be responsible and participate like a responsible citizen.  And I hope his anger fries him from the inside out because I AM fed up with freeloaders.  I know precious few, but he is one.

    Parent
    Wow (4.25 / 4) (#67)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 05:04:10 PM EST
    Sounds like a Republican talking.

    "I got mine. Screw you.

    "I'm tired of freeloaders."

    Wow.

    Parent

    Nice try (3.00 / 2) (#83)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 06:01:48 PM EST
    I mean you have been parroting Republican talking points for days.  My cousin takes advantage of the broken system continuously while living in a house that cost 350,000.  He votes Republican every election too, not me.

    Parent
    How did he manage that? (none / 0) (#68)
    by sj on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 05:05:12 PM EST
    skates on all other healthcare bills because our system as it existed was so broken he could and it didn't really affect his credit.
    My medical bills are affecting my credit right now. And I'm paying on them. I just can't pay them off all at once.

    If your cuz is paying cash money for boob jobs I can't see why he cares all that much what his credit score is.

    Parent

    My daughter has not been able to pay (none / 0) (#85)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 06:07:57 PM EST
    Any of her medical bills off but she does make small payments when she can, and she has a 690 credit score.  Hospitals and doctors do not report your debts with them normally.

    Parent
    Tell that (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by sj on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 06:10:52 PM EST
    to my medical professionals. They not only report it, they call about 2 or 3 times a month asking when they can expect the balance.

    I like your daughters' medical professionals much more than mine.

    Parent

    She has no doctor (none / 0) (#88)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 06:15:00 PM EST
    She has had insurance so can't get a doctor here.  When they have needed healthcare they go to the emergency room.  It is one hospital here carrying her debt.  But hey, if you want to pretend she has had all sorts of understanding professionals at her beck and call up to now go ahead.

    Parent
    Don't be an a$$ (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by sj on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 06:28:51 PM EST
    if you want to pretend she has had all sorts of understanding professionals at her beck and call up to now go ahead.
    I didn't pretend anything. I made an assumption that was incorrect. I assumed that she had visits to possibly more than one doctor's office and/or testing.

    But I still assume that the medical attention your daughter received was the hands of professionals.  Last I heard ER's weren't staffed by amateurs. Or is that also an incorrect assumption? I would be very interested indeed if that ER was different from others that I have visited.

    And I am still getting phone calls and have had my credit rating affected. By the representatives of my "medical professionals".

    And ... no doubt here comes the crazy.

    Parent

    If only I were the one being an a$$ (none / 0) (#92)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 06:34:08 PM EST
    About the Affordable Care Act and everyone it is forever damaging and all the harm it is causing.

    Parent
    Oh, you're not the only one (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by sj on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 06:36:27 PM EST
    being an a$$ about it. I don't know what gave you that idea.

    Parent
    Meant to type..l (none / 0) (#89)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 06:16:13 PM EST
    She has had no insurance

    Parent
    lol; he may be paying cash because... (none / 0) (#162)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 12:25:28 PM EST
    ... because he has no credit.

    Parent
    Thirty days into this, here's what I think: (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by Anne on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 12:55:43 PM EST
    the people who need coverage the most are going to be first in line to try to get it, and those are likely to be people with existing health issues at the lower end of the economic scale.  Healthy young people who are insured now can take their time and will probably wait until the last minute to sign up.  The people just now getting letters about their existing plans being discontinued are still trying to figure this thing out.

    So, my guess is the numbers right now are skewing sick and poor - probably not the optics the WH is looking for - and they don't want to spook the states vis-a-vis Medicaid - though I think you're going to see states deciding to expand because it will mean more money to accommodate the apparently significant numbers of people being added to the rolls.

    Parent

    Speaking of optics at this juncture of our (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 01:17:51 PM EST
    nation's evolving healthcare, I am thinking that running down street screaming and snarling and setting their own hair on fire isn't exactly the optics that others are shooting for either :)

    Parent
    Arson on one's own hair (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by Dadler on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 01:50:10 PM EST
    Speaking for me, and knowing that the ACA is really benefiting your family (and, frankly, I don't give a sh*t how you're getting that benefit, you deserve it as citizens, as human beings of value, not just as objects to be profited off of), I just can't turn off the logic in my head that says, ultimately, since this is still all about for-profit insurance, there's no way the healthcare companies won't game a system that is rigged in favor of ANYbody with big money. Without a non-profit public option, the absence of which means Americans have no real freedom here, the profit motive will be even MORE acute now, since they have been handed everyone in the nation to profit off of.

    But I hope I'm wrong. Because I have a half-sister with serious diabetes and, as you can guess, healthcare has been a big problem for her. Hopefully this health insurance actually translates into effective care. Count me, right now, regarding the concrete benefits for the mass of the population, as dubious. I just can't see a government that doesn't give a rat's ass if hardworking people earn enough to live on or not, that let them be phucked by the Great Real Estate and Finance Scam we are still experiencing, that this government is going to commit the massive resources that will be necessary to force insurance companies to provide actual care for people who don't have the money or power to matter to anyone but their own families

    But that's why they roll out the balls and play the game.

    Peace.

    Parent

    If the screaming and snarling and (5.00 / 4) (#27)
    by Anne on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 02:10:26 PM EST
    setting their own hair on fire is based on fact, and not on Tea Party-ginned up, Benghazi-style misrepresentation of what everything "means," I don't think apologies are owed for it.

    If it's drawing more attention to potential land mines the unsuspecting-and-desperate-for-care new participants deserve to know, can't see that anyone should apologize for that, either.

    It's supposed to be good to be informed; the problem seems to be that people are sensing that they might not have been told everything they had a right to know in advance of making decisions about health insurance.

    I can't feel too bad about all the flaming hair harshing the president's big moment if those who created the ACA in essence also created the conditions that are causing the spontaneous combustion.

    Just as with the intelligence community trying to shine on Congress and the people by stating they made information "available," when in fact they either had not, or had done so at times when absolutely no one was in town, it isn't enough that we could have found some of these things out if we had read the plan.

    The people that make the laws didn't read it, but we're being derelict if we didn't either?

    I don't think so.

    Parent

    We have a very selective fact search around (none / 0) (#31)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 02:31:20 PM EST
    Here :). Lying by omission is still lying in my house :) YMMV

    Parent
    Lying by omission (5.00 / 6) (#40)
    by sj on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 02:59:16 PM EST
    is lying in my house, too. So omitting the fact that something that benefits me may adversely impact someone else would be a lie.

    MT, I'm truly glad for everything that helps your family. You are the best advocate your son could possibly have and there is no doubt that he was born into the right family. Anything that makes his care easier/safer/better is to be lauded loudly and often.

    But it shouldn't be used to shoutdown and thereby omit the fact that others are being affected adversely. Each of those aspects are individual data streams that have naught to do with one another. They don't cancel each other out. Life doesn't work that way. Somebody else having more difficulty in his/her life doesn't diminish make your benefit, does it?

    Don't, therefore, behave is if your benefit cancels out someone else's hardship.

    Parent

    The only thing you and others focus on (1.00 / 3) (#100)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 06:48:09 PM EST
    Is how somebody may be adversely impacted.  And when challenged on the vitriol as I did Scott I find out that he is posting about strawmen, not himself...not even anyone he knows.  You know what goes on here, Obama witch hunting, and nothing more profound than that.

    I would like to have a balanced discussion about ACA, but that won't happen here.  Not right now.  And who really cares?  You all have at it.  

    Parent

    Maybe if you didn't come across like you (5.00 / 3) (#111)
    by Anne on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 07:50:25 PM EST
    were the only one who had a dog in this fight, people might believe you were really interested in a balanced discussion, but the moment anyone suggests that there might be some problems with the ACA, you go all "Obama-hater" on everyone.

    Is Obama your boyfriend or something?  Do you looooove him, Tracy?  No?  Isn't that what saying nice things about his policies means?  No?  Then how does being critical constitute hate?

    I guess accusing people of hating Obama is the new Godwin's Law.

    Parent

    "The moment anyone suggests" (1.00 / 4) (#123)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 08:32:12 AM EST
    What a crock....that is all you suggest.  Sad thing to witness, hatred for one man breathing in the White House being what gets you out of bed every day.

    Parent
    What is sad to witness (5.00 / 5) (#128)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 08:49:55 AM EST
    is that you have descended to relying solely on the rhetoric used by Bush and the last of his die hard supporters when they had nothing else to offer to support his policies.

    Your continual rants about Obama hatred and verbal accusations against all who disagree with his policies have replaced any effort on your part to debate an issue using facts.

    If you have a need to dwell on hatred, you might want to examine your own.

    Parent

    Not gonna stick, not on me (1.00 / 3) (#130)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 09:16:35 AM EST
    Sorry, most of you here have all built a solid Obama hate echo chamber here.  Congratulations, you guys have an accomplishment that equals Fox News without the payment of viewers.

    Parent
    Keep on keeping on (5.00 / 4) (#133)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 09:46:37 AM EST
    You are just reinforcing the fact that you have nothing to offer but your rant on Obama hate.

    I love the way that people like you who have adopted Fox News tactics love to accuse others of doing what they do on a regular basis. Personally I think that you would fit right in on Fox News since you deal not in facts but in non-stop Republican tactics - non stop rants on if you disagree with the policies you are a hater paired with accusations with those whom you disagree rather than facts. The theme of Obama hate originated as a Republican talking point of Bush hate and it was used for the very same reason - they had nothing better to offer. You should be proud you have become what you claim you despise.

    Parent

    I know the participants don't want to own it (1.00 / 2) (#135)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 10:02:12 AM EST
    They will never WANT to.  They may never publicly admit to even smidge either.  Who cares?  But breeding Obama hate and promoting Anti Obama rhetoric that eventually leads to distortion on every issue is what has happened here.

    Parent
    So, basically, Tracy, ya got nuthin' (5.00 / 4) (#134)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 09:48:35 AM EST
    Nuthin' but ugly.

    So the only reason to post at all is to make hilarious accusations like Obama hate being what gets me out of bed in the morning...I mean, seriously, I am still chuckling over that one.

    Sorry to disappoint...work gets me out of bed.  Work that pays the bills.  Work that I hope will allow me to continue to put retirement dollars away in case we ever really think we can actually retire.  

    Sometimes worry gets me out of bed, or keeps me awake.  Five years between me and Medicare, and six - or two, if I can swing it - between me and Social Security.  Maybe you don't worry about retirement, but I do, and I don't appreciate the idiots in DC - many of them Democrats - trying to figure out ways to reduce benefits.  Oh - that's not Obama hate, by the way - it's anger at all the debt and deficit hysterics - ALL OF THEM - who keep insisting on the austerity approach to killing off the old, the poor and the sick.

    Getting to spend the day with my grandson gets me out of bed.  Having a marathon canning session with my daughters gets me out of bed (applesauce, anyone?).  Going fishing with my husband gets me out of bed (although ditching the fishing poles to stay in bed with my husband ain't so bad, either).  Sometimes, taking my mom out shopping or out to lunch gets me out of bed.

    I get out of bed for the people I know and love and care about, not for hate.

    I don't know what the deal is with you, Tracy, but your inability to really discuss anything, and the way you use comments to make increasingly ugly personal attacks on those who aren't waving the pom-poms has really reduced you to the level of a troll who isn't worth responding to.


    Parent

    Anne, you know exactly what (1.00 / 3) (#136)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 10:04:37 AM EST
    You are about anymore.  And I don't know why.  Frankly I don't even care why you have dedicated your free time to the goals you have chosen.

    Parent
    To be fair, on other issues, in the past (none / 0) (#165)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 12:37:03 PM EST
    MT has been extremely critical of the President.

    IMHO, everybody on this talkboard has made legitimate points.  Everybody.


    Parent

    You're so sweet, (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by Zorba on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 12:58:27 PM EST
    trying to defuse the heated rhetoric.
    And I must ask, "But what does it all mean, Mr. Natural?"
    Yes, I do know the answer to that one.   ;-)

    Parent
    No one's asking Tracy to be critical of (5.00 / 4) (#182)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 01:18:02 PM EST
    the president; no one's demanding that she has to share any of the opinions expressed here that differ from her own.

    People have bent over backwards, been measured in their rhetoric, supplied links and excerpts from materials in support of our comments, been clear in acknowledging the reality that some people are going to benefit from the law, and what we have gotten in response is: "Obama-hater!"

    And I'm supposed to let that go - for the I-don't-know-how-manyth time - because at some point she said she didn't agree with one of the president's policies?

    Fk that.

    Do you see anywhere in this thread or any of the others where Tracy is blaming Obama-hate for everything where she's considering the kind, thoughtful, supportive comments we've made over the years in connection with her own personal family struggles?

    No, you don't.

    If you want fair, you play fair, and Tracy gave that up some time ago.  I used to wonder if maybe there was an underlying reason that was just too hard for her to talk about, and others expressed similar concerns, but when all you ever get back from her is some version of "Fk you," it's hard to keep caring.

    As Jeralyn has often stated, no one's required to read this blog or participate in the discussion, and if it's so awful - if we're so hateful - I'd like to suggest that she not let the door hit her on the a$$ on the way out.

    Parent

    The past is the past (none / 0) (#187)
    by sj on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 01:57:38 PM EST
    To be fair, on other issues, in the past (none / 0) (#165)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 11:37:03 AM MDT

    MT has been extremely critical of the President.

    and the present is the present. And in the present, all this shrieking is just trolling.

    And anyway, being "critical of the President" is a meaningless statement and carries no weight at all. I don't care what someone thinks of her President -- good or bad. It's the policies that are the important thing.

    To me. Apparently not to her. To her, any criticism of policy is criticism of her President. So while I appreciate your attempt at "fairness" I think it's wasted effort.

    Parent

    How about you bring some facts and some (5.00 / 3) (#121)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 06:42:56 AM EST
    supporting links if you want a legitimate debate. The only thing you bring to the discussion on ACA or anything to do to Obama's policies is your rant about "Obama hate."

    I guess that is the only thing you have to fall back on in support of your idol.

    Parent

    Once again, the adage (none / 0) (#33)
    by NYShooter on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 02:33:19 PM EST
    "A camel is a thoroughbred race horse....

    designed by a committee. "

    Parent

    Oy (none / 0) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 12:45:11 PM EST
    Ray Kelly booed off the stage at Brown (4.33 / 3) (#7)
    by scribe on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 12:06:18 PM EST
    I, for one, can't see anything even remotely objectionable in the audience's conduct.

     

    Dumb... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 01:05:31 PM EST
    ...not sure how the university officials equate free speech to an actual speech.  Kelly was free to say what he wanted, no one stopped him.  

    They did hamper his ability to use the podium and microphone, but that isn't a right anywhere.  Surely the staff at Brown understands the difference.

    I find is mildly bazaar that the guy behind 'stop & frisk' is all of sudden concerned about rights:

    "I thought this was the academy where you exercised free speech,"

    I guess rights are something he personally likes, so long as they aren't given to just anyone, especially the brown and black folks in his jurisdiction.


    Parent
    I wish the article stated ... (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 03:25:49 PM EST
    whether or not Kelly was paid for his appearance.  And, if so, by whom.  And how much he was paid.

    Parent
    I think free speech (none / 0) (#43)
    by sj on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 03:05:36 PM EST
    was in full display as the audience exercised theirs.

    Parent
    Way to go Providence! (none / 0) (#36)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 02:47:26 PM EST
    That's some beautiful sh*t.

    Parent
    And you really have to check out this video (4.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Dadler on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 11:04:15 AM EST
    This baby's reaction to his mother's singing (excellent signing, it should be added) will just tug at those cardiac strings of yours. Or you ain't got any. (VIDEO LINK)

    Sorry, that was the wrong link (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Dadler on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 11:55:28 AM EST
    This one is way better, has the whole song. Check it out, make you all weak in the knees. (VIDEO LINK)

    Parent
    Excellent. Here's another (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 12:20:14 PM EST
    Holy sh*t, Sarc (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Dadler on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 12:49:51 PM EST
    I think that may be the best link you've ever given me. Beautiful. Why can't life be like babies?

    Parent
    Must be a Parent Thing... (none / 0) (#18)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 01:19:23 PM EST
    ...because I find baby videos about as entertaining/annoying as cat videos.

    Parent
    Louis CK... (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 09:28:44 AM EST
    does a great bit on this topic...I've edited a little for brevity.  Classic and true.

    My daughter was having a dance thing at her school. They had this big dance.

    Every single person was blocking their vision of their actual child with their phone, and the kids-- I went over by the stage and the kids-- there's people holding iPads in front of their faces. It looked like we're all in the witness protection program. Like, the kids can't see their parents, and everybody's watching a sh*tty movie Of something that's happening ten feet in front of them. Like, look at your f*cking kid. The resolution on the kid is unbelievable if you just look. It's totally HD. Why are you taping this?

    You don't watch it. You just put it on facebook. And then you get to read all the comments.

    - "my God! It's so cute! Ngaah!"

    And guess what? They're not watching it, either. They're not watching the video. These kids are dancing for no one.

    I promise you. I'll prove it to you. Next time you tape your kid's dance, tape one second of it and then add 20 minutes of just your own a**hole. Just go in the bathroom and just record your own an*s opening and closing for 20 minutes. Tack it onto your kid dancing for a second. Put that on facebook. Everybody will write the same thing.

    - "that's adorable! I think I see a future star!"



    Parent
    7 hours (none / 0) (#142)
    by NYShooter on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 10:45:52 AM EST
    that's the amount of time kids 14-24 spend on their devices, including tv. every day. (average)

    Parent
    I caught this guy... (none / 0) (#144)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 10:58:07 AM EST
    Tom Brosseau as an opening act for The Felice Brothers awhile back, he wrote a clever little diddy about the phenomenon.

    So cradle your device and check out "Cradle Your Device".

    Parent

    meh (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by Dadler on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 11:38:10 AM EST
    big difference between a thousand parents trying to video the Christmas pageant (which is being recorded by the school anyway, copies of which to be sold), and some lady, in her home, making a video of her baby.

    The Louis CK bit is funny tho, can't deny that, and his older sh*t is killer. But, I have to admit, of late, he seems too bitter and hasn't been nearly as funny. Got divorced, tho, doesn't have the same relationship with his young children, and, IMO, that will certainly do it to you, if you have an ounce of sentient ability in your sorry ass.

    Parent

    Nice.....thanks (none / 0) (#151)
    by NYShooter on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 11:11:31 AM EST
    thats the amount of time the technology (none / 0) (#145)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 11:03:42 AM EST
    spends on their human hosts..

    the same way "markets" have colonized hearts and minds..

    Parent

    Most of them are (none / 0) (#21)
    by Dadler on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 01:29:41 PM EST
    These two are good tho, IMO.

    Parent
    I just watched again (none / 0) (#120)
    by sj on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 01:42:04 AM EST
    He's sleeping when the song comes on and wakes up to dance. And that's why that silly song is an international phenomenon. :)

    Parent
    That's lovely! (none / 0) (#119)
    by sj on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 01:35:30 AM EST
    I was laughing along with the sister.

    Parent
    It's good to have work and life... (4.00 / 2) (#3)
    by fishcamp on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 11:30:32 AM EST
    down here we just have fish and life.  Hopefully when you do start up again it will be about something other than the ACA bickering that is seemingly too difficult for us to solve.  The DOJ surveillance topic was way to hard since you only got one response.  We need some re-entry topics that are tough enuf to keep me away but great to learn from.  Just sayin'.

    Suggestions? (none / 0) (#9)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 12:25:41 PM EST
    For when I start up again?

    Parent
    Privacy (5.00 / 4) (#47)
    by sj on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 03:14:34 PM EST
    and the legal implications of all the data the NSA is storing on everyone.

    Speaking for myself, I read (more than once) every word of your post on the DOJ surveillance, but, as a non-lawyer, I'm not in a position to comment on the specifics of that case.

    OTOH, I feel perfectly comfortable commenting on global implications, LOL.

    Oh, and I'm one of those who is very interested in the Kim Dotcom case.

    Parent

    The shabby (5.00 / 2) (#115)
    by lentinel on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 09:51:41 PM EST
    treatment accorded our veterans.

    In every way.

    It gives the lie to the "honor their sacrifice" line that politicians trot out to justify their heartless adventures.

    Parent

    Comprehensive Immigration Reform (none / 0) (#32)
    by christinep on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 02:32:56 PM EST
    That subject usually brings about some discussion in many circles....

    Parent
    Yes Immigration Reform is a good topic. (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by fishcamp on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 03:05:04 PM EST
    It's mostly about the Mexican border but down here it's the Cubans and Haitians.  Why is it that the Cubans that make it to shore can stay but not the Haitians?  The  "wet foot dry foot" arrangement we have for the Cubans is appalling.  Recently some Cubans made it to a bridge but not land and it took a Federal court to finally let them stay.  The whole embargo mess is, well, a mess.  

    Parent
    blechhh (5.00 / 3) (#51)
    by sj on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 03:28:59 PM EST
    Not to me. As a brown person who is also a citizen, "immigration reform" is a coded means of screening and harassing my family members and those who look and talk like my family members. My family has been here for generations longer than most of the white folks in my area. Guess who gets harassed about "citizenship"?

    I know it's supposed to be something else, but that's how we view "immigration reform". Oh, we also view it as a vehicle to change the subject from something real to something theoretical all while providing a means for people to let loose with their bigotry.

    Sorry. For lots of us, most white people talking about "immigration reform" is like listening to Andrew Jackson expound on the fairness of the treaties made to the Native Americans.

    Now if you want to talk about "path to citizenship" that's an entirely different matter. But, being honest, it probably isn't one that would interest me personally, and so I would read about it superficially.

    Put me down on the side of kdog. For me, real "immigration reform" is throwing our borders wide open.

    YMMV

    Parent

    As I noted, the subject matter (none / 0) (#52)
    by christinep on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 03:34:29 PM EST
    brings about comments.  BTW, I used the broader term because that seems to be in use these days ... I would hope, as you suggest, that a major focus would be about a pathway to citizenship.

    Parent
    Bringing about comments (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by sj on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 04:12:33 PM EST
    that also bring out someone's inner bigot doesn't strike me as also bringing out a meaningful dialogue.

    YMMV

    Parent

    Are you assuming that the conversation here (none / 0) (#58)
    by christinep on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 04:23:37 PM EST
    will be or could only be bigoted about the subject of Immigration Reform?  It is, after all, a central issue in the country ....

    While not negating the reality of bigotry in this area -- as well as extant discrimination in a number of other areas -- I don't think that talking about such a significant issue cannot be done at this point either here or in this country.  That is my opinion.  Even though Caucasians cannot possibly see Black reality, Latino reality nor the reality through the eyes of another culture, I believe that we have come to a point where we all can try to exchange whatever information we possess.  Far better than to stay silent.

    Parent

    Oh lordy (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by sj on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 04:34:53 PM EST
    I can't believe I'm responding this bit of deliberate misunderstanding.

    No. I did NOT say that "the conversation here will be or could only be bigoted". What I said was

    [talking about immigration reform provides] a vehicle to change the subject from something real to something theoretical all while providing a means for people to let loose with their bigotry.
    And that's what I meant.

    Okay, so I left out the word "some" before the word "people". How you assumed that meant "all" is a mystery to me.

    And I'm not going to follow this change of subject which is talking about the change of subject any further. That's way too meta for me.

    Parent

    What ? (none / 0) (#59)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 04:30:51 PM EST
    'Comprehensive Immigration Reform' may mean something to you and your family, but it certainly doesn't suggest, in any way, that the person using it trying to 'bring out someone's inner bigot'.

    The bigots are here and will be vocal no matter what you call it.  And maybe I am reading your comment wrong, but it seems like an undeserved cheap shot.

    'Path to citizenship' is not the same thing and you know it.

    Parent

    Exactly my point (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by sj on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 04:36:26 PM EST
    The bigots are here and will be vocal no matter what you call it.
    Which is why I am not anxious to give them a forum.

    Parent
    Speaking for myself only ... (5.00 / 3) (#106)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 06:57:45 PM EST
    sj: "Which is why I am not anxious to give [bigots] a forum."

    ... as a white guy who's married to a Mexican-American and whose in-laws lived in Texas for nearly three decades as undocumented immigrants until the last round of comprehensive immigration reform in the 1980s, I don't believe we should allow fear of someone else's bigotry to either dictate the course of a national conversation we absolutely must have, or preclude it.

    Screw their "white backlash," and the horse they rode into town on. Public reticence to confront such ignorance and bullying only encourages bigots to go further. This is your country, too.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    And blechhh again (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by sj on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 04:43:14 PM EST
    Here it is again. Everybody trying to prove how non-bigoted they are while also displaying how clueless.  This is exactly the meta kind of meaningless conversation that makes me feel naseous. And I mean that in the most literal way.

    Lots of comments is not the same thing as good commentary. There is nothing informative in anything you or christine or I have said. It's either emotional or loftily ignorant.

    Upon reflection, if specific thread is set up for the discussion is created I could purposely avoid it like the plague, as I tried to do for He Who Shall Not Be Named.

    Parent

    sj: While I believe that (none / 0) (#77)
    by christinep on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 05:41:15 PM EST
    your personal reflections could only add to an honest discussion about how to improve immigration reform (including how to move the issue forward legislatively so that we can advance the reality), I understand your reluctance and reaction to the subject.  IMO, this issue will be front & center--as it long should have been--in the coming months. Then again, from what I have learned from Latino friends over the years, your response is quite understandable.

    Parent
    That "distinction" (none / 0) (#50)
    by christinep on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 03:26:03 PM EST
    When did the different treatment begin officially...do you recall, fishcamp?  And, is there any support in Florida for aligning the two after a number of years of experiencing the different treatment accorded Cuban immigrants from others?  And more: Isn't it almost like popcorn time to watch M. Rubio contort himself on the many matters immigration???

    Parent
    The Cuban embargo started in Oct. 1962 (none / 0) (#76)
    by fishcamp on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 05:39:29 PM EST
    Both the US government and Fidel Castro had a series of different rulings about who could and could not come to the US as they still do.  At the beginning many or most of the wealthy Cubans fled to South Florida including many doctors and lawyers.  This truly incensed Fidel so he sent boat loads of convicts on the Marial Boatlift first started in 1977 but we didn't know there were convicts along too.  Then it stopped until 1980 when more than 125,000 Cubans emigrated to the US.  After we realized  Fidel had sent more criminals we stopped allowing Cubans into the US .                              

    There is a fierce division between the Cuban Cubans and the US Cubans since Fidel nationalized everything and the US Cubans lost all their land and possessions in Cuba.                                              
    You are correct about Marco Rubio, nobody knows what he is doing including himself.                    
                                                                                                            There are undoubtedly some flaws in this account of mine but this is how I remember it.  Don't hit me too hard.

    Parent

    Cubans (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by ragebot on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 08:40:56 AM EST
    wealthy or not started coming to South Florida (in particular and the US in general) before 1962.  My Dad graduated from med school in 1954 and moved back to Miami, where he went to high school.  I went to public school there and many of my fellow students were Cubans.  But it was much different back then.  While English was not the de jure official language it was the de facto national language.  In high school my debate partner was from Cuba.  Interestingly his family left Cuba because they were Jewish.  Not to say there was not discrimination against Jews in the 1950-60s (or even now) in Miami; but it was much worse in Cuba.

    I just returned from a six week trip to the Dry Tortugas on my 42 foot catamaran.  I monitor CH16 (per USCG rules) and at least twice a Hispanic voice announced there were people on Loggerhead Key, at which point the rangers shut it down and the USCG dispatched boats to pick up the Cubans there.  I also stopped at the Marquesas on the way to Fort Jefferson and (per USCG rules) contacted the USCG to inform them of a boat around on the beach that looked as if it had carried Cubans to the US.  The reason I reported it was it did not have USCG painted on it with a red spray can like two other boats close by.

    Cubans have been coming to South Florida long before 1962 and I suspect this will continue for quite some time.

    Parent

    Great report ragebot, (none / 0) (#163)
    by fishcamp on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 12:34:32 PM EST
    I fish the Marquesas occasionally and Loggerhead regularly.  Both are excellent for bonefish, tarpon, and permit during the season.  That's a long time to spend at the Dry Tortugas.  So were you there when they closed Ft. Jefferson and then reopened it?                          
                                                                                                               Yes Cubans have been coming to the US for a long time but it was the embargo of which I was speaking that began in 1962.  Just read today in the Miami Herald that some small airlines is going to start flying from Key West to Havana for $499 rt.  Of course you have to be Cuban American or qualify by one of the State Dept. requirements.  Seems expensive to me.

    Parent
    What, you mean you can't (none / 0) (#175)
    by Zorba on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 12:50:37 PM EST
    just hop in your boat and tootle on down there, fishcamp?
    ;-)

    Parent
    Going to Cuba (none / 0) (#183)
    by ragebot on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 01:18:37 PM EST
    in a private boat can be a little risky.  The US can confiscate your boat for doing so.  Lots of USCG overflights of Cay Sal.  The USCG also has a big presence in the Straights of Florida to interdict Cubans headed for the US and drug smugglers.  Oh yea the USCG also rescues US citizens.  But quite frankly they spend more time dealing with Cubans than anything else, just monitor CH16 if you question this.

    I have a lot of non US citizen friends in the harbor and they all kinda laugh at how everyone but US citizens can go to Cuba.  But it is also interesting to see how folks from other countries view Cuba.  Biggest gripe is the food.  Because Cuba is a very poor third world country it can't afford to buy good spices and many of the good cooks have moved to Miami and opened up a push cart at a construction site and a few years later have a real restaurant.  One of the things on my bucket list is the South coast of Cuba, but it is kinda down on the list.  It is so much easier to visit other places that are just as good or better.

    Parent

    I know. (none / 0) (#186)
    by Zorba on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 01:34:58 PM EST
    It was snark, ragebot.  Just me teasing fishcamp.    ;-)

    Parent
    Left before the shutdown (none / 0) (#181)
    by ragebot on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 01:09:08 PM EST
    My cat has plenty of solar to run everything and I left with 120 gallons of water.  Used less than four gallons of gas motoring there and back.  But I was very careful about my weather windows.  I timed my return based on conversations with the captain of the fast boat from Key West, just before the shutdown.  Had 10-15 knot NW wind and maybe 1-2 ft following swells.

    I was fishing for grey snapper near the North coal docks and twice caught bonefish using cut squid for bait.  I was mostly there for underwater photography.  Got to dive North, West, and South of the fort, the North coal docks, Bird Key and the Brick wreck, Little Africa, and the ledges West of Loggerhead; missed the Windjammer wreck.

    $US499 is expensive, bet you could fly to Cancun and Havana for less than Key West to Havana, not to mention less problems with paperwork.  One of my friends at Boot Key (he is from Canada) sailed his cat to Cuba and has some interesting stories.  I have thought about sailing there but will probably postpone that.  I like the Keys because $US179 a year gets me unlimited Sea Tow, and even with the $US300 to get in the Bahamas they are a lot more boater friendly than Cuba.  You can not even put your tender in the water without permission; unless you get down to the South coast.  Problem is the water is really skinny on there.

    Parent

    You can go to Cuba by boat if invited (none / 0) (#203)
    by fishcamp on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 06:41:09 PM EST
    They have at least three fishing tournaments and three sailboat regattas every year that are by invitation.  I fished in the Hemingway Blue Marlin tourney by invitation.  When we returned by boat to Key West I told Customs and the Bureau of Human Resources that we fished in Cuban waters and spent no money in Cuba.  Even if you buy an airplane ticket to Cuba on any airlines you are doing business with the enemy.  I still get invitations to the fishing tournaments in Cuba and e-mail back and forth with the secretary of the Club de Pesca and Hemingway Marina.

    Parent
    4A or 1A (none / 0) (#126)
    by ragebot on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 08:45:51 AM EST
    I was the sole poster about your 4A thread and kinda wondered why there was not more response.  While Jerlyn's original post was more at the macro level and mine was more at the micro level I wonder why there is not more interest in 4A issues.

    But a bigger worry for me is why this blog seems to have such a different take on 1A issues.  Lots of times I view what seems to me to be an attempt to shut up opposing views.  I am a much bigger 1A guy than a 4A guy and my take is that the cure for bad speech is good speech, not no speech.

    And I also would not mind seeing more 2A stuff.

    YMMV

    Parent

    - little response, probably because people (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 12:49:07 PM EST
    were horrified to see warrantless searches on the verge of defacto legitimization.

    Parent
    Here's a topic, an engineer turned (none / 0) (#169)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 12:47:31 PM EST
    Asst. U.S. Attorney figured out a way to bust the banksters using an obscure federal statute, which must have slipped by the bankster lobbyists who write our banking legislation.

    His pioneering use of the law -- the Financial Institutions Reform, Recovery, and Enforcement Act of 1989, or Firrea -- underpinned the Justice Department's tentative $13 billion settlement with JPMorgan Chase.


    Parent
    Might be a good idea (none / 0) (#185)
    by ragebot on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 01:29:11 PM EST
    Back in the day, or at least a few months ago, we use to have a rule that some threads would be limited to the subject of "He who's name will not be used" and other threads on all subjects except "He who's name will not be used".

    I noticed in this thread that the signal to noise ratio on the topic of Obamacare has reached the point where there is a lot more noise than signal.

    Might be a good idea to have threads with that type of limits on certain topics.

    Parent

    For the Boston Red Sox (4.00 / 2) (#109)
    by desertswine on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 07:12:56 PM EST
    tonite.  My favorite baseball essay.

    Hub Fans Bid Kid Adieu by John Updike.

    Lavabit Founder announces DarkMail alliance (4.00 / 2) (#117)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 12:05:15 AM EST
    The founders of Lavabit and Silent Circle, two of the encrypted mail services recently shuttered by their owners after Lavabit was forced to turn over encryption keys to the Feds, announced that they want to change the world of e-mail completely by putting privacy and security at its core.

    The two companies collaborated to create the DarkMail Alliance, to maintain and organize the open-source code for its new e-mail protocol, set to be released in mid-2014, replacing the current standard, SMTP, which has been used for almost every bit of e-mail on the Internet for about thirty years.

    The organizers say that DarkMail will be available as an add-on or an option to existing e-mail providers, incorporating end-to-end encryption and other security features.

    Levison added that he wanted DarkMail to be "easy enough that Grandma can use it. Our hope is that someday in the near future that anybody who uses e-mail today can use a DarkMail client."

    President Liar (3.25 / 4) (#54)
    by Slado on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 04:10:31 PM EST
    Doubles down on his lie.

    I hope people are listening.

    Let me summarize:  If you lost your insurance it's because you don't know what's good for you.  STFU and call the 1-800 number.

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 06:42:18 PM EST
    start advocating for single payer and we won't have this problem ever again.

    Parent
    Damn Sarge... (none / 0) (#28)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 02:13:06 PM EST
    tell us how really feel.

    What scares the hell outta me is the state gave you a badge and a gun, never mind a vote!

    Chin up Captain Groper... (none / 0) (#29)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 02:16:38 PM EST
    the TSA needs dudes like you...I'm sure they got a job for ya when Delta cans you.

    But to be fair, I guess it is somewhat plausible he was sleeping too...should we blame the sardine can seats?

    Yeah... (5.00 / 4) (#35)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 02:40:03 PM EST
    ...because of all the people to fall asleep on planes, he seems to be the only one to wake up with his hand firmly on a 14 year girls butt.

    Come On, Man...

    Parent

    I just said... (none / 0) (#38)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 02:52:50 PM EST
    somewhat plausible...not likely.  Devil's advocate.  I find myself in strange positions sometimes when I wake up.  

    Parent
    Sorry, no way, dude is guilty as hell. (5.00 / 3) (#41)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 03:01:25 PM EST
    Props to the 14 y/o girl: a quick elbow into the guy and a "What the hell are you doing?!" just before she hits the call button.

    Parent
    Probably right... (none / 0) (#44)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 03:09:08 PM EST
    My money is on pervy sexual assault of a minor too...but how do you explain sleepwalking and other strange sleep phenomenon?  I've had people lay their head on my shoulder asleep next to me on a plane accidentally.  Theoretically speaking, I don't think we should hold people criminally accountable for actions while sleeping...no mens rea.

    And he is presumed innocent, not for nothing.

    Parent

    officer said after he "checked your package" during your arrest.

    "Yer honer, I fell asleep during the frisk and my hand fell right into kdog's tightie-whities. Oopsies!"

    Parent

    You assume, of course (none / 0) (#174)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 12:50:07 PM EST
    that he really WAS asleep.

    That's not the story the girl told.

    Parent

    You might feel a bit differently, Dog (5.00 / 4) (#60)
    by Zorba on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 04:33:34 PM EST
    if you were a parent.  If someone did this to my daughter at that age, I don't give a flying rat's @ss if he was awake or (supposedly) asleep.  He's a creep.
    I applaud the girl for being pro-active about this.  Good for her!  Sounds like something I might have done at that age (except that I might have found a way to elbow him sharply, not just in the arm, but in the b@lls. Although, it doesn't say exactly where she elbowed him).  And, knowing my daughter, she would have most likely done the same.
    I also tend to disbelieve that he was asleep, given that he seemed to have managed to both raise the armrest, and his "fingers were touching her inner thigh."
    Try being a female on public transportation in a big city some time, Dog.  The times that I was groped, when I was much younger and commuting to work and school on the Boston MBTA, were many.  I managed to either elbow the groper, or, if I happened to be wearing heels, stomp on his foot in such a way as to impact an unprotected part of his foot.  You really don't want a high heel crunching your foot in an unprotected area.  I got quite good at this.
     

    Parent
    Ramen, Zorba. Ramen. ;-)) (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Angel on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 04:58:59 PM EST
    Ahhh . . . subway groping. (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by nycstray on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 05:47:16 PM EST
    Can't say that I'm missing that at all.

    I started carrying a bag a few years before I moved, that had a graphic I designed, which said "Beware of B!tch" (paw print included in graphic) and it seemed to deter the more timid gropers ;) Even got me seats and at times people hesitated sitting next to me, lol!~ (keep in mind folks, I weigh all of 100 pounds!)

    Nuttin' like a full body leaner first thing in the A.M. :P

    Parent

    ::sigh:: (5.00 / 3) (#81)
    by sj on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 05:54:02 PM EST
    ...I used to weigh 100 pounds...

    Parent
    Please don't get me wrong... (none / 0) (#129)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 08:53:52 AM EST
    I have no illusions about the appalling sh*t women are subjected to on the subway, planes, and out and about.  I thank goodness everyday I was born with a Y;)  And as a chivalrous gentleman, I can't even wrap my head around what pervy gropers are thinking and doing.  You ladies are justified to cut their f*ckin' hands off.

    Say maybe one in a million cases may be legit unintentional...and I'm confident this case ain't one of them.  

    I don't know why but I got to thinking about how I sleep...and how sometimes I wake up with my head where my feet started with no recollection of how I got there.  I've even been known to elbow a lover in the head or knock 'em clear off the bed.  I'm a big time tosser turner, sleep talker and occasional sleep walker.

    And thinking about how airplane sardine can seats don't lend themselves to the concept of personal space.  

    Parent

    I understand what you're saying, Dog. (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by Zorba on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 03:20:58 PM EST
    And I agree that the airplane seats do indeed make us feel like sardines in a can (or cattle in a feedlot).  And it's getting worse all the time, as the airlines try to make more money.
    I do make a distinction, however, between someone who takes over all of the pitifully small armrest, or guys who are rather large and can't help but impinge upon your space, and some guy whose hand winds up on a woman's inner thigh region.
    Somehow, I so not think that your hand would wind up in such a region of a female's anatomy in any crowded public transportation situation, no matter how asleep you were, and how contorted you sometimes wind up in your sleep.
    Just sayin', my brother.  
    Namaste.

    Parent
    Too true... (5.00 / 2) (#195)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 03:49:19 PM EST
    I thunk the most likely embarassing place my hand will wind up asleep on a plane or train is down my own pants a la Al Bundy;)

    Parent
    Don't make me laugh at work (none / 0) (#200)
    by sj on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 05:01:26 PM EST
    when I might have to explain myself. :)

    Parent
    I have a sure cure for that (5.00 / 3) (#107)
    by scribe on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 07:04:40 PM EST
    Going back about 25 yrs, a friend's roommate was riding the subway downtown to work.  The car was full, she'd been out late the night before and started dozing off in her seat.  In her half-asleep state, she thought she felt someone groping her butt.  She maintained enough presence of mind to not wake or stir immediately, but rather to make mentally sure of it and work her hand on that side down toward her lap.

    At an opportune moment, she grabbed a hold on the yuppie's hand feeling her up, held it high and screamed to the whole car:  "Whose hand is this on my a$$?"

    Everyone turned to look, the yuppie crumpled in shame and got off at the next stop to the amusement of the entire car.

    Parent

    Speaking of healthcare, fascinating article... (none / 0) (#46)
    by Dadler on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 03:09:57 PM EST
    Good news to me (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 05:07:50 PM EST
    Read about a 'adequate carb' diet and its benefits to cholesterol a few years ago, and it sure has worked for me. Not carb free, but keeping to a much lower level than I did before. I don't buy bread or potatoes - will eat them out sometimes, but that is it. I do eat rice though, just trying to cut down the portion size! Keep to high fibre fruits and veggies.

    Luckily I don't have a sweet tooth, but eat dark chocolate when I do!

    Still indulge in adult beverages though - I'm not that hard core about this diet!

    Parent

    I have given this considerable thought (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by sj on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 05:46:22 PM EST
    but I am just not ready to give up on my bread. Or potatoes. Two of my favorite things. How did you make the transition? Was it hard for you?

    Parent
    I have no problem giving up potatoes. (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by vml68 on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 06:39:46 PM EST
    But, bread you'd have to pry from my cold dead hands... :-)
    I used to weigh 100lbs just a few years ago. But, as I grow older the pounds seems to be piling on at an alarming rate.
    I can't blame it on unhealthy eating habits because I don't eat processed foods or drink soda. I don't have a sweet tooth either and can only tolerate very dark chocolate.

    Parent
    Life is full of differences (none / 0) (#99)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 06:46:14 PM EST
    which makes it interesting.

    I'd find it much easier to do without bread than potatoes. Don't think I have ever met a potato dish that I didn't like. Maybe it has to do with being Irish.

    I normally trade my bread calories for chocolate and I think the dark chocolate is the very best.

    Parent

    It is hard. (none / 0) (#160)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 11:37:41 AM EST
    I can skip potatoes pretty easily since they require cooking ;-)

    Bread however is very tough, and I do break down on that one more often if there is fresh bread calling my name in a bakery. But it is gone in a couple of days, so easy to recover from a bread indulgence!

    When I started this, I realized that for me, both potatoes and bread function mainly as a fat delivery system - butter, cheese, etc - so cutting them out also eliminated a lot of extra fat calories!

    Parent

    All of that said.... (5.00 / 2) (#201)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 06:22:28 PM EST
    I just made banana bread!

    I am weak.

    Parent

    D@man (none / 0) (#202)
    by sj on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 06:24:31 PM EST
    I just threw out a banana when I could have made banana bread....

    Parent
    You got me thinking, though (none / 0) (#188)
    by sj on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 02:10:37 PM EST
    I was vegetarian for about four years before reverting to my omnivorous ways.  When I made the decision, I had a bit of a panic attack thinking

    "No more bacon? For the rest of my life?

    No more sausage on my pizza? For the rest of my life?"

    So I gave myself a safety valve and decided that if it was the first week of the month, and if I wanted it I could have one non-vegetarian meal. That way, if I got a hankering I would only have to wait 3 weeks at the most. It worked really well.

    I didn't invoke my little safety valve for 3 and half years. Of course then it was only a few months until I didn't need it anymore...

    But the moral of this story is, I know I could do with with potatoes. And I think I could do it with bread. And I would be cutting down greatly on the carbs.

    Parent

    Speaking of food... (5.00 / 3) (#82)
    by fishcamp on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 06:01:27 PM EST
    I finally finished making Tzatziki from Zorba's recipe and it turned out quite well.  But it took me three daze to do what she probably does in three minutes.  There were quite a few mistakes but I like mine better than the Trader Joe's I bought last week.  Theirs was runny, mine isn't.  I'm not good with spoons of dill and mint and one third cups of stuff so I just went with the force.  Next time Key lime Tzatziki.  

    Parent
    I prefer it thicker also. (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 06:50:48 PM EST
    Different Middle Eastern nationalities have a similar dish. The Indian version I had seemed the thinnest. Iranians make it nice and thick the way I like it. Good stuff.

    Parent
    No, it doesn't exactly (5.00 / 2) (#103)
    by Zorba on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 06:55:24 PM EST
    take me three minutes, sweetie.  It takes longer than that just to strain the yogurt.  But yes, it can be done in much less than a day.
    Glad it worked out for you.  And you do understand, I hope, that the amounts I gave you were approximations.  (You might have enjoyed the recipes I got from my older relatives.  Spoken in Greek, with a "handful" of this, a "little" of that, and a "coffee cup" of the other, etc.) I tend to throw things in by eye, and by taste.  Going with "the force" works.  You're turning into a Greek, fishcamp!

    Parent
    This little girl has a voice you won't believe (none / 0) (#105)
    by Dadler on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 06:56:31 PM EST
    Say it ain't so... (none / 0) (#137)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 10:10:05 AM EST
    the NSA spooks are spying on Pope Frank too?  

    Actually this one kinda makes sense...he does seem sincerely fond of the teachings of that infamous radical socialist Jesus H. Christ.  Can't have that message spreading, no siree.  Keep a close eye on that one NSA, and God Bless America. ;)

    I'm almost starting to suspect (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 10:36:18 AM EST
    that these intelligence community spooks are a bunch of perverts and blackmailers..

    Another thing the Church no longer has a monopoly on.

    Parent

    I can get down with that theory... (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 10:41:48 AM EST
    Shades of J. Edgar Hoover...blackmailer extraordinaire, and at one time in possession of the nation's largest personal pron collection.  

    I can only imagine the collection of nudie pics and vids the NSA Cyber-Spook squad has amassed from hard-drives and email servers around the world...must make great water-cooler conversation.  

    Parent

    And it'll all eventually be for sale (none / 0) (#149)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 11:11:00 AM EST
    to the highest bidder. In another "market based", "portfolio driven" decision..

    Talk about having all the dirt on everybody to provide the ultimate competitive edge..

    Parent

    And it'll all eventually be for sale (none / 0) (#150)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 11:11:01 AM EST
    to the highest bidder. In another "market based", "portfolio driven" decision..

    Talk about having all the dirt on everybody to provide the ultimate competitive edge..

    Parent

    Not me (none / 0) (#166)
    by sj on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 12:42:27 PM EST
    I'm almost starting to suspect (none / 0) (#140)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 09:36:18 AM MDT

    that these intelligence community spooks are a bunch of perverts and blackmailers..

    I've always thought that blackmail was involved. How else did so many politicians do abrupt about-faces on certain legislative measures?

    I have contempt and no trust at all for the intelligence community spooks.

    Parent

    Not the Pope, too! (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by Zorba on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 11:29:56 AM EST
    Keith Alexander and the NSA are going to He!! now, I'm sure.

     Did you see The Borowitz Report?

    Responding to the firestorm of controversy over its spying on European allies, the head of the National Security Agency said today it would do everything in its power to avoid being caught doing it in the future.

    "There are two important jobs for every spy agency: spying on people and avoiding detection," said the N.S.A. chief General Keith Alexander. "Unfortunately, at the N.S.A. we have only done the first job well."

    Hahahahahaha!

    Parent

    And St. Peter... (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 11:37:02 AM EST
    surely has St. Snowden on his guest list...I just hope that some CIA assassin doesn't send him to meet Pete before his time.

    Parent
    NSA: When All Else Fails, Mention 9/11 (none / 0) (#176)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 12:54:26 PM EST
    NSA MEDIA STRATEGY:

    The National Security Agency advised its officials to cite the 9/11 attacks as justification for mass surveillance activities, Jason Leopold reports for Al Jazeera.

    The talking points and suggested statements -- obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request -- are dated June 24, which is a couple of weeks after journalists began reporting on documents obtained from former NSA contractor Edward Snowden.



    Parent

    Woo Hooo! (none / 0) (#146)
    by tworivers on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 11:04:28 AM EST
    Sawwwwwwwwwwwwxxxxxxxxxxxxxx!!!

    Booooooooooooooooo! (none / 0) (#153)
    by Zorba on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 11:25:20 AM EST
    But congratulations anyway, Red Sox fans.
    Just wait until next year!       ;-)

    Parent
    It's a very Happy Halloween... (none / 0) (#156)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 11:31:50 AM EST
    for Hillary Clinton...400 grand in treats from Goldman Sachs for two speeches inside of a week.  Unless she cut 'em a volume discount

    Why do I get the feeling Blankfein is buying more than speeches, actual services due in 2017 wink wink.  

    And the Carlyle Group just last month too.  She sure can pick 'em! lol

    services due right along.. (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 11:36:53 AM EST
    That's really a sad joke..

    Our great hope for the future..

    Wake up and smell the coffee folks.

    Parent

    We know (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 04:19:36 PM EST
    the drill from you. If Obama does it, it's the "system" but somehow Hillary is personally responsible in the same circumstances. We know Obama is never personally responsible for anything he does.

    Parent
    Right about now (none / 0) (#170)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 12:47:38 PM EST
    I'm scratching my nose with my middle finger and rolling my eyes so fast that it sounds like the field behind my house on a night in mid-August.

    Parent
    Crickets are better... (none / 0) (#178)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 12:56:28 PM EST
    than defense of the indefensible.

    What I can't figure out is why conservatives dislike her so.  The National Review should be praising her marketing skills and cozy relationship with "job creators" (lol).

    Parent

    Those speeches must be some combination (none / 0) (#184)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 01:20:29 PM EST
    of the Sermon on the Mount, the Gettysburg Address, and Pericles' Funeral Oration at those prices. And then, after getting Hillary's soul for free in the bargain, Goldman writes the rest off.

    Let's not forget: as Lloyd would say, in the context of market making, there's nothing wrong with what she's doing.

    Parent

    Stop and Frisk Ruling (none / 0) (#204)
    by jbindc on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 06:35:25 AM EST
    blocked by appeals court and the judge removed from the case because she was not impartial.

    A federal appeals court on Thursday halted a sweeping set of changes to the New York Police Department's practice of stopping and frisking people on the street, and, in strikingly personal terms, criticized the trial judge's conduct and removed her from the case.

    The Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit ruled that the judge, Shira A. Scheindlin, "ran afoul" of the judiciary's code of conduct by compromising the "appearance of impartiality surrounding this litigation." The panel criticized how she had steered the lawsuit to her courtroom when it was filed nearly six years ago.

    The ruling effectively puts off a battery of changes that Judge Scheindlin, of Federal District Court in Manhattan, had ordered for the Police Department. It postpones the operations of the monitor who was asked to oversee reforms of the stop-and-frisk practices, which Judge Scheindlin had said violated the constitutional rights of minorities.

    The appeals court's action was an unexpected twist to what has been a long-running fight over the tactics, a centerpiece of the city's crime-fighting strategy.

    The use of police stops has been widely cited by the administration of Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg as a crucial tool in helping drive the number of murders and major crimes in the city to historic lows. The police say the practice has saved the lives of thousands of young black and Hispanic men by removing guns from the streets and suppressing violence.

    But Judge Scheindlin ruled in August that the Police Department not only had violated the Fourth Amendment's guarantee against unreasonable searches and seizures, but had also violated the 14th Amendment by resorting to a "policy of indirect racial profiling" as the number of police stops soared in minority communities over the last decade.

    The police, Judge Scheindlin found, were routinely stopping "blacks and Hispanics who would not have been stopped if they were white."

    Lawyers for the city had gone to the Second Circuit to ask for a stay of Judge Scheindlin's ruling and of the court-ordered mandates. In granting the stay, the circuit went beyond what the city had requested and unexpectedly ordered that the stop-and-frisk lawsuit, known as the Floyd case, be randomly reassigned.



    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 174 (none / 0) (#205)
    by Dadler on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 08:37:43 AM EST