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Monday Open Thread

President Obama backed net neutrality today.

It's been 25 years since the fall of the Berlin Wall.

President Obama on November 11, 2011:

"My fellow Americans, our troops are coming home..."After a decade of war, the nation we now need to build is our own."

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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  • Display: Sort:
    kdog, check this out. Opportunity! (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 12:41:01 PM EST
    A job (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 12:54:59 PM EST
    I could see not retiring from

    Parent
    I Would Love to See That... (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 01:06:25 PM EST
    ...expense report.

    Parent
    The critic has to pay for what he smokes. (none / 0) (#5)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 01:13:41 PM EST
    What kind of job is that, ... (none / 0) (#52)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 03:17:55 PM EST
    ... whereby one must assume all financial obligations incurred during performance thereof? You sound like a stoned Republican.

    ;-D

    Parent

    Obama backed net neutrality (5.00 / 4) (#8)
    by Farmboy on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 01:24:43 PM EST
    and every member of the GOP in Congress is now so strongly against it that they're comparing it to Obamacare.

    Still waiting for the president to speak out on how he backs the idea of breathing...

    the responses from Comcast (none / 0) (#12)
    by CST on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 01:33:42 PM EST
    were my personal favorites.

    I wonder how the GOP is going to twist this one as they are very anti-Obama, but now they have to be pro-the most hated company in America

    Parent

    Ted Cruz tweets: (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 01:52:16 PM EST
    "Net Neutrality" is Obamacare for the Internet; the Internet should not operate at the speed of government.

    Link

    This is the mentality Obama has to deal with.


    Parent

    except in this case (none / 0) (#19)
    by CST on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 01:54:26 PM EST
    He doesn't really have to deal with congress, but congress can put up a stink about it and make themselves look like complete fools.

    Parent
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 02:07:25 PM EST
    Congress oversee the FCC?

    I mean, that's what the FCC website says, so I have to believe that the Congress, in its oversight capacity, could easily find ways to gum up the works.

    Parent

    well right now (none / 0) (#36)
    by CST on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 02:27:39 PM EST
    I think the bigger issue is - does the FCC even care what Obama thinks about net neutrality - so far the answer seems like a resounding "meh".

    Congress could make lives difficult for everyone, but it would be an uphill battle for them.

    The FCC already has authority from congress to regulate the internet.  So congress would have to pass something to change that, rather than not pass something so it doesn't happen.  As we all know, it's much harder for congress to pass something than it is for them to not pass something.

    Parent

    I don't actually see the Congress doing (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 03:02:21 PM EST
    anything as a legislative body; I see the usual gasbag suspects doing their usual gasbag thing as a way to grab airtime and get their supporters riled up.  Very little of it will be based in fact or truth, but that won't matter - they won't be jawing to inform but to incite.

    And Obama - really?  All this time he's had to lead on the issue of net neutrality and now is when he decides to speak up?  Now, when almost no one cares what he thinks?  When those who care don't dare say so lest they be immediately ignored?

    Golly - so much courage on display, it's just crazy.

    Parent

    right (none / 0) (#51)
    by CST on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 03:14:47 PM EST
    I guess my point was - if the FCC decides to act - and that's a big if - Congress would have to actually get it's act together as a legislative body in order to stop them.  Them being gasbags isn't going to cut it in this case, since the FCC already has the authority to act.

    Again - Obama on this is a month late, and I really don't see why he didn't speak up before.  Sure, some Republicans will find a reason to hate it, but Republicans hate him anyway - and most don't understand net neutrality enough for it to be something they get extra riled up about.  The people who really care are younger voters who overwhelmingly sat out the last election.  

    But this is not the first time he's spoken up on this issue.  In 2009 the FCC acted on this, but it was tossed by an appeals court in January of this year.  So there is a good reason we haven't heard much about it before January - there was no reason to, it was taken care of.  What I want to know is why he waited until now to make this statement.  It could have made a difference in states like NC - which has a large, young, tech-savvy population,  if he'd done this in September/October.

    Parent

    ROTFLMAO (none / 0) (#44)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 02:52:29 PM EST
    These people are certifiable. A few months ago I predicted more comedy than the daily show could handle. It looks like we're a week after the election and it's already.

    Anne, you better buy stock in Prevacid or something. Can you imagine how crazy it's going to get after a year or more. It will give you heartburn.

    Parent

    With demogogy like that, ... (none / 0) (#45)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 02:53:33 PM EST
    ... it's long past time that Democrats drop any pretense that they are dealing with a U.S. senator who deserves respect by sole virtue of his office, and simply call him out for what he is.

    Parent
    When he opens his mouth, he (none / 0) (#49)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 03:10:29 PM EST
    becomes Mr. Haney of Green Acres fame...

    Parent
    OMG! LOL! (none / 0) (#58)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 03:28:20 PM EST
    The vocal similarity to that two-bit TV huckster is striking.

    Parent
    Donald (none / 0) (#63)
    by MO Blue on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 03:39:01 PM EST
    Your link does not work for me.

    Parent
    Sorry. That's not the first time ... (none / 0) (#72)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 05:54:24 PM EST
    ... that's happened for me, where the hyperlink reverts to the thread when I hit "Post." Happened once last week, too. I'll type out the HTML manually:

    LINK.

    There, that should work.

    Parent

    GIZMODO on Ted Cruz and Net Neutrality (none / 0) (#65)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 03:40:30 PM EST
    This is a disingenuous, chickensh*t political maneuver and nothing more.
    Senator Ted Cruz--who accepted campaign funds from telcom giant Comcast--immediately fired back with this incendiary tweet:
    He's(Cruz) on the Subcommittee on Communications, Technology, and the Internet, which handles internet governance and FCC oversight.
    Ted Cruz and his team have the facts wrong about net neutrality. Obama specifically said the government would NOT be in charge of pricing: "I believe the FCC should reclassify consumer broadband service under Title II of the Telecommunications Act -- while at the same time forbearing from rate regulation and other provisions less relevant to broadband services."

    Emphasis mine. Government will not rate regulate and saying so is lying (or maybe they didn't actually read the statement?).


    LINK

    Parent
    The GOP (none / 0) (#16)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 01:51:39 PM EST
    has painted themselves in a corner. They simply cannot sign onto anything he likes.

    Watch the TPP go down in flames pretty soon and probably everything else that looks like it might happen now.

    Parent

    Heh, but it's safe for Obama (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 02:43:28 PM EST
    To fully back net neutrality now, that's what I see :). The guy who won't commit to domestic policy when it's meaningful because that's a real commitment.

    Parent
    to be fair (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by CST on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 02:52:00 PM EST
    they already passed this back in 2009 but an appeals court tossed it because they said FCC is calling it one thing and treating it as another - which is why they are now talking about reclassifying it as a utility.

    That being said, if he had any political inclinations at all he would have done this before the election.

    Parent

    A lot of educating to be done on this, CST (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by christinep on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 03:26:28 PM EST
    Certainly in the broader electorate; and, probably even here ... while you may assume that young people understand the implications of net neutrality, I suspect that even that is a relative fraction of that demographic.  More definitely, the average/sort of average/the large portion of the voting populace classified as older-than-young need to be sold in a way that makes it relevant at home.

    Parent
    except that (none / 0) (#67)
    by CST on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 03:49:39 PM EST
    I get the feeling that the people who don't know/understand also don't really care.  This isn't like healthcare, where everyone has a strong opinion one way or the other.  The people with strong opinions are Comcast/Time Warner/Verizon/etc... - and people who support net neutrality.

    So we don't have to explain it necessarily.  The FCC did this back in 2009 without any uproar.  The people who are gonna vote on this are the ones in support.  The people who oppose it because Obama likes it - were the people who actually showed up and voted in the last election.  In other words, I don't think this would've increased his enemies, but it certainly may have increased his friends on election day.

    Parent

    I disagree (none / 0) (#84)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 08:14:16 PM EST
    If we sent everyone to Europe or even South Korea (where my dollar buys Internet heaven) for a bit, with a very restricted stipend and a stipulation they had to get a smart phone out of their stipend...everyone would get it, and they would care.  We have some of the most freedom-less markets with the crappiest products in the world and our exceptionalism propaganda prevents citizens from knowing and understanding that.

    Parent
    also (none / 0) (#13)
    by CST on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 01:37:13 PM EST
    if there is one issue that might get young people off the couch and into the voting booth - other than pot - this is it.

    Parent
    I'm waiting for his suggestion that people (none / 0) (#33)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 02:21:08 PM EST
    refrain from mixing vinegar and chlorine bleach when cleaning their bathroom and kitchen areas of the dwellings.

    Parent
    I thought that was... (none / 0) (#101)
    by unitron on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 04:37:46 AM EST
    ...ammonia and chlorine bleach?

    Parent
    Vinegar and bleach (none / 0) (#102)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 06:28:59 AM EST
    Judge Rakoff on Plea Bargaining (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Michael Masinter on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 02:16:31 PM EST
    The title is Why Innocent People Plead Guilty and the article is very much worth reading for anyone interested in how our criminal justice system has gone off the rails.

    As anyone who follows politics knows, (none / 0) (#47)
    by NYShooter on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 03:06:31 PM EST
    "money talks." The same is true with our current oxymoron, criminal "justice" system.

    I will begin to have my faith in our judicial process restored when we provide defendants with an equal amount of money, and resources, enjoyed by the prosecution. As it stands now the idea that an indigent defendant can receive a fair trial exemplifies the definition of a "farce."


    Parent

    What the Story Neglects to Mention... (none / 0) (#106)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 09:18:44 AM EST
    ...is what one should do if they find themselves in that position.

    Great article, but since the likelihood of the system being changed are slim, some tips on what people can do to balance the power imbalance would have been very helpful.

    His plan, while very good, isn't realistic.  If 97% of cases are plea bargains, what kind of resources would be needed to get judges in the middle, more than any jurisdiction will ever fork up, IMO.

    I do think legislation that governs overcharging will slowly gain momentum.  Deals, to me, should involved time reduction, not charge reduction.  Options, for the defendant, should be the same charge, with lower time for pleading guilty.  None of this admit to assault or be charged with attempted murder.

    Parent

    Kaci Hickox, the nurse (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by KeysDan on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 02:39:18 PM EST
    who treated Ebola patients in West Africa and battled the quarantine conditions imposed by New Jersey Governor Christie and Maine Governor LePage, has completed the 21-day monitoring period and is Ebola-free.  Ms. Hickox and her boyfriend are moving to southern Maine from northern Maine.  Her boyfriend has left U of Maine at Fort Kent (the nursing program) owing to their disappointment in the way they felt he was treated.  

    The latest health report on Dr. Craig Spencer is several days old, but it has been reported that he is much improved and has been upgraded to stable.  There are no reports of Ebola outbreaks at the Meat Ball Shop, High Line, Subways or bowling alleys in NYC.  

    The reported cases of Ebola being contracted in the US can be counted, essentially, on one hand; and mortality of all in the US on one finger.  Ebola is a serious infectious disease and public health danger.  However, it is a manageable communicable disease.

     It may be time to blow the all-clear whistle--schools can re-open, let the children of employees of the CDC attend school, and the breathless talking heads to take a deep breath so they may carry on about Benghazi,and  accept kudos from the RNC for mission accomplished  Other hysterics can come out from under their beds where the light is better so that they can read up on the disease.

    I read somewhere that the day (5.00 / 5) (#42)
    by MO Blue on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 02:51:16 PM EST
    after the election, Fox News discovered that the crisis was over. Funny how that worked.

    Parent
    Yep. Time to sound that signal. (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 03:08:17 PM EST
    The election's over, and Ebola is now day-before-yesterday's news. Kaci Hickox has duly served her purpose -- albeit very unwillingly -- as Gov. Paul LePage's last-minute campaign prop.

    Were I Ms. Hickox and her boyfriend and given the electoral results, I'd bail from Maine altogether. That state likely doesn't deserve good people like them. Rather, they deserve to suffer the consequences of their own stupidity and ignorance, because that's exactly what they just doubled down upon.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Update on Dr. Craig Spencer: (none / 0) (#113)
    by KeysDan on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 12:30:43 PM EST
    Dr. Spencer was discharged from Bellevue Hospital.  

    Parent
    Great news (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 04:51:39 PM EST
    I loved what Mayor de Blasio said about him being a hero.

    Parent
    I am weeping today, so full of sorrow (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by Dadler on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 03:11:14 PM EST
    So sorry, dadler. He was obviouly mush loved (5.00 / 4) (#53)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 03:26:13 PM EST
    and respected.

    Parent
    Peace be with (5.00 / 3) (#62)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 03:38:16 PM EST
    you Dadler. I'm so sorry to hear this. Such a loved young man with so much ahead of him.

    Parent
    I am so very sorry, D. (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by Zorba on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 06:07:56 PM EST
    He sounds like a young man who had a great future ahead of him, and who will be sorely missed by so very many people.
    My sympathies to all.

    Parent
    Condolences Dadler (5.00 / 3) (#75)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 06:17:58 PM EST
    Too young.  Too everything

    Parent
    Sorry to hear that. (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 06:59:33 PM EST
    It's certainly not the natural order of things, that we should outlive our own offspring. May his parents and siblings come to find peace of mind, in the knowledge that his struggles on this earth have concluded and he is now at rest.

    Parent
    I am so, so sorry (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by sj on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 07:44:05 PM EST
    Peace to his family, to you and most especially to Jack. It's always wrong to lose a child.

    Parent
    My sympathies, Dadler. (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by desertswine on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 10:36:06 PM EST
    So sad.

    Parent
    Thanks to everyone for your good thoughts (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by Dadler on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 12:02:26 PM EST
    This has just really busted me up. Though my wife and Jack's mom have lost touch over the years (she and my buddy had a horrible divorce when the boys were young), we were there the day Jack was born. I worry about my old pal. Maybe he'll sell the house and move into the city, as he has always wanted to. I just hope he manages to stay afloat. If I lost my own son, I doubt I'd survive it. I'm getting all choked up again. Man, sometimes life just piles on and piles on. Since I blew my back out several months ago, it's just been one bam after another. Mortality is certainly a heavy load sometimes.

    Parent
    Dadler, somehow I managed to miss (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Anne on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 12:25:24 PM EST
    your original comment about your friend's son.  I am so, so sorry for the loss all of you are feeling.  Reading the article you linked to, it was clear this was a much-loved young man, with so much going for him; to die so young just breaks my heart.

    What happened to Jack just strikes fear in the hearts of all parents - I really think it is the thing we fear most. To have it become a reality is just beyond my ability to comprehend - if I'm truthful, I'd tell you that I can never think about the possibility for too long, because it's just too scary.

    I wish you peace, the loving comfort of your wife and son, and my thoughts and prayers.

    Parent

    I appreciate your thoughts (none / 0) (#114)
    by Dadler on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 12:41:45 PM EST
    Genuinely. Thank you.

    Parent
    Dadler, I've been too busy to check in much the (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by Angel on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 01:33:46 PM EST
    past few days and just now read your post about your friend's son.  So sad for all who knew and loved him; truly heartbreaking when life is lost at such a young age.  Peace to you.

    Parent
    Sad, I don't know any other way to get Democrats (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 06:12:27 PM EST
    To understand.  I received a solitation from the Clinton Foundation today.  I think it does great work but.....when are Lib leaders going to get it?  Median income fell this year while inflation creeps on and I really felt it, and they did nothing, fought hard for nothing. It went into the trash.  The last pol I gave a dime to was Elizabeth Warren.  I am content with that for however long getting it takes!

    Well (5.00 / 3) (#76)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 06:29:58 PM EST
    I've been feeling it for quite a while approximately 8 years now. The worse was a 56% decrease in income in 2012 by the tea party nut boss my husband had. Then it's still down a 1/3. Obama didn't do anything and the GOP wants more suffering.

    Parent
    We were shielded until two tears ago (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 09:04:07 PM EST
    We were receiving cost of living increases, and though they missed the real numbers, the hits were significantly softened.  Two years ago the beltway decided that actual cost of living increases were too much for military pay checks.  Since the crisis I struggled to clarify well to other military households that we lived in a bubble, and now the struggle is over...bubble gone

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 03:29:19 AM EST
    this is what I want these people over at the big orange to realize though I've given up on trying to convince them of anything. One of them told me she had insurance and Goldman Sachs had to pony up some money. I said Goldman Sachs ponying up money was worth millions of people suffering in the foreclosure crisis?

    There was an article in the New Republic about how Obama basically used Elizabeth Warren. Probably why she was one of the first ones to join Ready for Hillary. One way to give Obama a punch back.

    Parent

    Was the Clinton Foundation asking for (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by nycstray on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 07:10:12 PM EST
    $$ money for a politician/party? Why is it their job to get out there and fight for whatever it is you want? Seems they did spend a lot of time out helping other Dems get elected recently . . . so what is it you would like these 2 private citizens to do for you?

    Their foundation is not a political org, afaik . . .

    Parent

    I think it is their job to lead (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 07:20:43 PM EST
    On important social issues, particularly THE most important social issues, and to do so with utter seriousness..not just garnering dragnet social approval...but achieving real success..  Look, if they want MY money that is what is required.  They have the IQ points, they have the voices with the global credibility, nobody has more.  Perhaps your money comes with different parameters.  Mine does not.

    Parent
    Their job? Really? (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 12:42:07 AM EST
    Seems to me her job was SOS for the past few years and she could NOT be political. Or did you forget that? And he was supposed to keep his head down and not garner any attention unless needed to support POTUS.

    I'm so sorry you feel they have let you down, especially sad that you seem upset that she took some down time after she left her position and he was busy with his foundation and doing charitable work . . . but showed up to be a good and supportive Dem when and where needed .  . . .

    Exactly how do you think they should have achieved "real success"? And can you define exactly what this success would look like?

    Seems like you are aiming at the wrong people just because they are looking for charitable donations during the upcoming holiday season, just like every other  charitable org . . . I really don't think either were in a position to effect either of our economic status. Now your CIC, that's another story . . .

    Parent

    That might be what you want them to be about (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by ruffian on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 02:10:18 PM EST
    But it is not their mission as I understand it. They are not a 'think tank', but rather a problem solving org.

    Parent
    In order to be a problem solving org (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 05:38:53 PM EST
    You sort of need to be thinking :).  At least that's what I learned from the Fort Rucker Leading Change Team :)  I can't be the only one tossing the solicitation.  If they want money from middle America they need to get serious about supporting middle America.  Bill Clinton still has a friendship with Robert Reich that goes back to Rhodes Scholar days.

    Parent
    Truly (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 05:56:26 PM EST
    it's up to Hillary. She's going to go around and talk to citizens and get their input on what the problems are. To me the Clinton Global Initiative is doing what it always does--Global Initiatives. Bill did speak though on the subject of poverty at one time within the last few years and talk about solutions and what he had seen and what had worked.

    Parent
    Or maybe the Clinton Foundation and the (none / 0) (#117)
    by ruffian on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 02:11:44 PM EST
    Clinton Global Initiative are two different things?

    Parent
    They are conjoined (none / 0) (#137)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 10:27:34 PM EST
    The Global Initiative is a subsection of (none / 0) (#138)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 12, 2014 at 12:13:06 AM EST
    the foundation per Wiki.

    Parent
    Wiki says it is HRC's base for a presidential (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 11:19:58 PM EST
    campaign. W/o citation of authority though.

    Parent
    Ahhh! (5.00 / 3) (#97)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 12:43:42 AM EST
    So that's what they are doing over in Africa . . .  :P

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#98)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 03:24:25 AM EST
    technically it is but I'm not sure how much she does with the initiative. To me it seemed more of like somewhere to land after being SOS for Hillary.

    Parent
    Supposedly, she'll be working with the (none / 0) (#108)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 11:10:46 AM EST
    women and children portion (surprise!) and I did just see and article not too long ago where they her and daughter) are working with Hollywood to get more correct messages in popular shows, like the 'talking to your child all of the time from infancy because the first 3yrs are critical' message that was in Orange Is the New Black. (apparently messages in popular show really works) And there was also something she did with a pilot reading program for kids and parents, I 'think' it was in NYC (or one of those major places) that is too help kids get that early step up or something like that . . oh wait, maybe it was in Oakland?

    Honestly, you don't hear a lot about what this org is doing in the news. Same with most of the charitable orgs. I figured she would join the Foundation or start her own specifically for w&c when she was done as SoS. Seems smart to me to settle in where there's everything in place . . .

    I personally think it will be an amusing show if she decides not to run. Can't wait to see what everyone with their panties in a bunch will do . . . :P

    Parent

    stray, I'm sure my mother, aunts, (none / 0) (#118)
    by fishcamp on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 02:33:40 PM EST
    grandmothers and other ladies spoke to me my first three years of life. And what did they say?  We are going to kill all the Nazis and Japanese, because that's what was going on then.  I saw that article too and I say BS.  Because, look at me, I turned out just fine...right?

    Parent
    What our mothers and grandmothers did (none / 0) (#124)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 03:48:05 PM EST
    isn't always the norm now, and may not have been then depending on where/how/what the situation was. It really didn't matter if they were telling you they were killing Nazis, that is not the point. The point is the vocalizing and interaction. Same with reading. It doesn't matter what you are reading, it's that you ARE reading.

    I really don't know how you 'turned out', but you seem fine in the grammar, vocabulary, and reading comprehension areas . . . somebody must have paid attention to you ;)

    Parent

    Over and above parental interaction, (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 04:42:28 PM EST
    fish was educated by the nuns back in the day when you were going to learn the fine points of grammar, vocabulary, reading comprehension and math even if they had to knock you upside the head to get you to learn them.

    I think he referred to the nun's technique as "nun bopping." ;o)

    Parent

    lol!~ :D (none / 0) (#129)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 05:27:55 PM EST
    Heck, even public schools back in the day were pretty fierce about the basics, minus the bopping that is!

    The talking to your baby thing is happening in my family right now. My mom doesn't think grandaughter does enough of it, especially with the second baby since the first does have speech issues and has been seeing/doing therapy for it for over a year. Me, I'm staying out of it, but fall in behind my mom ;) Second kid likes to be read to and will want to hang onto the book and follow along (he's 1.5), first kid (will be 5 in Jan) had/has no patience for anyone reading to him. First kid is more of a puzzle and do it yourself kinda kid. Likes to figure things out, so I can kinda see how having someone else do it would be frustrating . . . ;)

    Parent

    Have always been really big on (5.00 / 2) (#132)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 06:09:27 PM EST
    talking to babies and to children in general. Also really big on starting to read books to them almost from day one. Books made for infants were around the house for the babies to chew on, look at and have read to them. As a new mother, eons ago, I use to get a wee bit upset with people who would talk gibberish to my babies.

    Luckily my daughter agreed on that aspect of child rearing. She and her husband talked and read to both boys from the time they were infants on. Nightly reading was a shared experience with their parents or their Nana well into grade school.

    Kids differ in what they want. My son was also less patient with sitting still and being read to but my daughter and both my grandsons loved it. Even with those differences, all four talked early and had great vocabularies even without "nun bopping."

    Parent

    The size of a child's vocabulary (5.00 / 2) (#139)
    by caseyOR on Wed Nov 12, 2014 at 11:42:25 AM EST
    when the child starts kindergarten is critical to success in school. Children with small vocabularies start out already behind. Catching up is hard.

    This is a major reason why reading to a child from the get-go and talking to the child in a normal way, no baby talk, is so important.

    In addition, the reading is such a bonding experience.

    Parent

    Talking with and reading to children (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by Anne on Thu Nov 13, 2014 at 08:18:06 AM EST
    are good things, in and of themselves; as a life-long reader, I can think of almost nothing better than curling up with a good book - and if you can do that with a child, so much the better.  

    I don't know where or when it came to be, though, this pressure on children and parents to make sure the kids are able to read before they even start school.  Talking, playing, sharing a book - these are all learning experiences for young children - pretty much everything is a learning experience: pretend play, singing, playing in groups, being read to - it doesn't have to be "academic" in order for kids to be learning.

    But today's parents tend to panic if little Susie or young Billy can't read when they arrive at pre-school; for some reason, they've been led to believe this will spell doom for their child's future academic success.

    I thought this whole article was interesting - here's a little bit:

    Schools like Calhoun and Allen-Stevenson point to studies showing that early reading does not necessarily guarantee future success. "Being able to decode words is not a direct line to heightened I.Q.," said Dr. Stephen Sands, a pediatric neuropsychologist and assistant professor at Columbia University Medical Center. "Reading is part of academic achievement, but intelligence is part of a different dynamic."

    And small children who can read are not necessarily comprehending the text they rattle through, said Peggy McNamara, a reading and literacy specialist at Bank Street College of Education on the Upper West Side. Language-rich environments, like classrooms where children must speak in full sentences or are asked to make up their own tales, are what foster learning, she said, not the ability to breeze through "Hop on Pop."

    These arguments are not stopping the steady push toward earlier reading, with some preschools like Garden House and several Montessori programs specializing in producing tiny bookworms. Junior Kumon, which offers reading and math instruction to children ages 3 to 5, says its enrollment in young reading classes has tripled to more than 6,000 since it opened in New York City in 2007.

    I can't help thinking that this push isn't so much about the kids, it's about the parents, about the peer pressure that drives parents to be uber-competitive about their children, almost from the time they are in the womb.  It sometimes feels like it isn't as important that a child be happy and feel loved as it is that he or she hits all those developmental milestones before all the other kids in Mommy's or Daddy's circle of friends.

    It's not that I'm advocating against education, or learning - it's more that I think it's getting lost in the shuffle that this is childhood - it's so short, so fleeting, and it doesn't need to be micro-managed and children don't have to be driven to succeed the way so many are now.

    I guess this is the best part about being a grandparent - when i'm with my grandson, and he's playing in the tub, or chattering away, when he's curled up next to me on the sofa as he has me read The Very Hungry Caterpillar for the 10th time, it's just about being together - about sharing time and love and it being all about him.  He learns from that - and the best part is that he doesn't know he's learning, he doesn't feel he has to get anything right.  He's just being almost-2.

    Parent

    Fully agree (none / 0) (#147)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 17, 2014 at 11:42:09 AM EST
    There is a learning window for reading and it is different for every child and has to do with brain development.  When I was younger I consumed books, now I must DO things.  But reading didn't click for me until I was seven.

    When my daughter was six her teacher was "worried" about her reading abilities.  When I told her teacher it didn't click for me until I was seven and I wasn't sure this was a big concern, the teacher seemed to chalk my experience up to poor education...teachers fault :). But I was several years ahead in my math skills, so I didn't take that seriously.

    By the time my daughter was eight she was a reading superstar, and has remained a voracious reader.

    Parent

    Also, something I remember from a (none / 0) (#148)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 17, 2014 at 11:57:01 AM EST
    Philosophy class, children's brain go through a big rewire at around five. This is why most of us have very few detailed childhood memories before five.  And it isn't that learning hasn't taken place, but it becomes more of the infrastructure we continue to attach our future learning to.  Reading is very detailed and specific so probably one of the many details dumped in the rewire.

    Parent
    Mo and stray, thanks, (none / 0) (#135)
    by fishcamp on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 08:41:33 PM EST
    I feel better now.  You had me scared there stray because I did come from the period of which I spoke.  Maybe that's why I got a "D" in German at Oregon. But let me say this...Go Ducks.

    Parent
    Glad that i could contribute to (none / 0) (#136)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 10:11:45 PM EST
    making you feel better. And yes, there were probably many children of that period who shared memories of similar discussions since WWII was the major topic of that time. As to your German studies:

    My guess would be that you didn't have any "nun bopping" at Oregon to "help" you with your German. ;o)

    Parent

    stray, MO, and casey, after thinking (none / 0) (#140)
    by fishcamp on Wed Nov 12, 2014 at 03:33:13 PM EST
    about the whole idea I'm sure you are correct.  I doubt the women in my family were reading WWll articles to me from the Oregonian.  I don't have much experience with children but I would guess they just know when someone is reading a nice story to them.  

    Parent
    I hadn't realized that the fall of the Berlin Wall (5.00 / 3) (#90)
    by Peter G on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 10:09:22 PM EST
    occurred on the same day, November 9, as Kristallnacht, one more than 50 years later.

    Berlin Wall (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 10:30:22 AM EST
    There is a very good documentary on the History Channel that goes from the surprise over night 5 mile barb wire fence and lock down of east Berlin, to the accidental political misstatement that brought it down without a single shoot.

    It documents the various stages of the wall from the initial barb wire fence to final wall that had numerous layers including dead zones with self firing machine guns, land mines, and tank barriers.  For a bit, there were houses in the east that had windows facing the west in which people would jump to freedom.  Eventually, money earmarked for rebuilding the city, was routed to tearing down buildings for construction of the wall.

    My mom's brother, my godfather, was in the service and stayed in west Berlin when he was discharged.  He married a Berliner and I had cousins who grew up in a divided Berlin.

    Parts of the wall still stand today.

    For the record, east Berliners were responsible for the wall coming down, not the United States.

    "accidental political misstatement"? (none / 0) (#128)
    by unitron on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 05:23:50 PM EST
    What was that statement, and by whom?

    Parent
    CNN may be gone from DISH for good (none / 0) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 12:58:18 PM EST
    couple of interesting links about the current CNN/DISH dust up and the state of the cable industry

    LINK

    LINK

    Howdy, switch to Direct TV, (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by fishcamp on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 01:13:57 PM EST
    and you get to memorize another set of channel numbers. Good mental training for older folks like you.  Notice, I didn't say old. You've got a couple more years to go to be old, believe me I know. :-)

    Parent
    Segue: aging. Frank Bruni (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 01:28:12 PM EST
    turns 50 and thinks he's seen the worst of it. Get that man a red sports car!

    NYT

    Parent

    Yes, I had (none / 0) (#23)
    by KeysDan on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 02:00:53 PM EST
    the same impression, but probably just his birthday blues.  At first, it seemed as if he was marking his 90th.  My only advice for this birthday boy is to get another dermatologist.

    Parent
    He should have listened to his dermatologist (none / 0) (#66)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 03:49:10 PM EST
    years ago.

    Parent
    And get that man a trophy wife! (none / 0) (#30)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 02:17:13 PM EST
    Although on second thought, maybe not. Too much drama.

    Parent
    Meh (none / 0) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 01:28:34 PM EST
    i could care less about CNN.  I miss TCM.  Not sure I miss it enough to switch right now
    Interested that DISH said they are coming out with an Internet package.

    Parent
    They have the MGM channel on DISH this month (none / 0) (#28)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 02:16:08 PM EST
    So that's something.

    I would not get Direct TV, because my wife got it in her name so her relatives could watch it as they haven't been in this country long enough to get it on their own.  Ever since she cancelled it because they moved, she gets called 3 or 4 times a month by them to change.  This has been going on for at least a year.

    Parent

    When I'm grant / proposal writing, ... (none / 0) (#21)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 01:57:24 PM EST
    ... I always prefer to use the term "older adults" rather than "seniors" and "elderly," because I find the very sound of it to be much more dignified and respectful.

    The only time I will ever use those other terms in my work is when the requests for proposals specifically reference "seniors" and "elderly," which government agencies do for purposes of defining and categorizing older adults as an expressly entitled class. Because when you're asking for money, it's always best to not confuse or challenge the grant evaluator by insisting upon the use of your own preferred terminology.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    That Has Idiot Stamped all Over It (none / 0) (#7)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 01:20:51 PM EST
    Dish lost 12,000 pay-TV customers during the third quarter.

    And their solution, try and squeak out lower costs which appears to mean losing more channels, yet charging their customers the same price.  

    Genius, why would anyone leave...

    Parent

    ... are Lisa Ling's "This Is Life" and Anthony Bourdain's "Parts Unknown." As for the rest of the network, I gave up on CNN "journalism" a long, long time ago.

    For actual news, I watch PBS Newshour and Al Jazeera America, and I listen to the BBC. When I want other people's opinions, I'll come here to TL because at least most of it is informed.

    But with the exception of Rachel Maddow, who at least tries to offer informed commentary and journalism, the rest of TV cable news programming is the equivalent of watching the mountain gorillas on exhibit at the L.A. Zoo, as they fling their own poo at their human visitors.

    (The gorillas have actually done that the last few times we've been there. They're a popular exhibit, and one would think the zookeepers would take a hint that the animals are perhaps stressed by their human gawkers, and strictly limit the number of people who can view them at any one time.)

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Hard to imagine (none / 0) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 01:40:59 PM EST
    CNN allowing itself to be severed from that many eyeballs.  I think DISH has the cards.  They will come around.  

    CNN thought the election would do it.  Nobody cared.  CNN is a click away.

    Parent

    Dish (none / 0) (#18)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 01:52:58 PM EST
    is the most sleazebag TV company I have ever dealt with. I have Comcast now and guess what? Dish was even worse.

    Parent
    We have Hawaiian Telcom. (none / 0) (#24)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 02:03:29 PM EST
    I much prefer them to Oceanic Time Warner, which for some reason decided that those customers receiving basic cable service would enjoy seven different Christian fundamentalist channels, all preaching the Holy Gospels according to Santa Corporatista and Santo Dinero.

    Parent
    We have (none / 0) (#57)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 03:27:46 PM EST
    the fundamentalist channels no matter what service we get.

    Parent
    Then, I trust (none / 0) (#61)
    by NYShooter on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 03:35:26 PM EST
    you've sent in your "seed," and, subsequently,  received an inexplicable check for $48,000 as a reward for your faith?

    Parent
    All my (none / 0) (#69)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 04:58:57 PM EST
    seed goes to the church I go to every Sunday not these carnival clowns.

    But I know you were just teasing.

    Parent

    I 've gotten excellent service from them (none / 0) (#31)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 02:18:20 PM EST
    But they rely on local companies to do their service and repair work, so you're limited by what's available in hour area.

    Parent
    It is entirely regional (none / 0) (#38)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 02:38:37 PM EST
    as far as who does what best.  Cable here is almost nonexistent.  Most basic of basic.  You don't even get a box.  Forget a DVR.

    Parent
    Winter arrives tomorrow (none / 0) (#15)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 01:49:40 PM EST
    right now it's beautiful.   73. Sunny.  All windows open.  
    Supposed to the 30-40 degrees colder and raining this time tomorrow.  

    It's coming for lots of us.  

    Highs (none / 0) (#20)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 01:54:47 PM EST
    are going to be in the 40's later on this week here. Then it will probably warm up again.

    Parent
    Not for a while (none / 0) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 02:00:52 PM EST
    this is an extended thing.  At least 10 days here of afternoon temps in the low 30s.  Snow for next weekend.


    Parent
    Yep, it's a brisk 70 down here... (none / 0) (#25)
    by fishcamp on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 02:06:16 PM EST
    But it does get cold sometimes.  A few years ago, on the way to Costa Rica, I had my thin clothes on and it was 45 at MIA.  That was the year thousands of baby snook, tarpon, and bonefish froze to death over in the Everglades.  We are finally recovering from that disaster.  The Chamber of Commerce says each bonefish is worth $17k in tourist dollars.  Not sure how they know that.

    Parent
    Weather & Relativity (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by christinep on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 02:21:18 PM EST
    Not the Theory of Relativity ... rather, the its "all relative" perspective that you just noted, fishcamp.
    Meanwhile, we watched the descending storm pounce on us from the mountains about two hours ago...from a warmish 60ish morning walk with dog to 40ish or less now and heading for the below 10 degrees in the next few days.  Our little American Eskimo dog will love it.
    For now, it seems to make more sense to be dreading and realizing the cold of November than the lovely delusion like frogs-boiling-in-water of the extended warmth that has been with us in Denver for soooo unusually long. (Recognize that last sentence is "philosophical" and meant to comfort me as I awaken to the gigantic cold tomorrow.)

    Parent
    Just don't lose her in the snow! ;) (none / 0) (#35)
    by nycstray on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 02:23:43 PM EST
    It's 61 here, and those temps (none / 0) (#27)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 02:13:58 PM EST
    are supposed to hold through Wednesday, then head down into the 40's during the day, and down to 30 at night.

    No precipitation to speak of in the forecast.

    Need to get the wood bin stocked.

    Parent

    Got the wood today (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 02:35:28 PM EST
    and the propane and canned goods and shotguns.

    Bring it.

    Parent

    Baawaawaa (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 03:29:15 PM EST
    Howdy you haven't gone all doomsday prepper on us have you? LOL.

    Parent
    Hey, he's just being sensible! (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Zorba on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 05:50:13 PM EST
    That's how we are, all the time.    ;-)


    Parent
    We will dip to the mid 60s tomorrow (none / 0) (#32)
    by nycstray on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 02:19:36 PM EST
    for a few days and then be back to a "seasonable" low 70 this weekend . . . apparently, when we have a cool down coming through, 5 degrees counts, lol!~

    Parent
    AK and MO as close neighbors (none / 0) (#41)
    by MO Blue on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 02:47:12 PM EST
    Often share the same weather patterns. The mid 30s with lows of high 20s is scheduled to arrive on Wed. And last for at least a week. Brrrrrrrr. Not ready for the colder weather but then again I never am ready.

    Parent
    It dropped 34 degrees (none / 0) (#81)
    by sj on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 07:40:33 PM EST
    from 9:30AM to about 1:00PM here today. It's cold out there now. Glad tomorrow is a holiday. I don't fancy commuting 0n the first icy streets of the year. It seems like drivers completely forget over the summer how to drive in wintry conditions.

    Parent
    I'm so sorry Dadier (none / 0) (#54)
    by MO Blue on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 03:26:25 PM EST
    That is so sad. My condolences to his family and to those like you and your wife who loved him.

    To your point, (none / 0) (#56)
    by NYShooter on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 03:26:30 PM EST
    I have considerable experience dealing with, and/or, living with the citizens of both the far Northeastern, and, the far Southern States of America. Other than the Southerners having better suntans I found the differences imperceptible.


    Jack Kerouac (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by jondee on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 04:46:44 PM EST
    in a few places, quotes an archetypal ancient black man/friend of Neal's who says something like "It's just that some's bastids, and some ain't".

    In my experience, that formulation's always been reliably applicable anywhere you go in this country -- from the Redwood Forest to the Gulf Stream waters and all points in between.

     

    Parent

    Sorry, (none / 0) (#60)
    by NYShooter on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 03:30:18 PM EST
    this was supposed to be in response to Donald, #48.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#64)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 03:39:43 PM EST
    my best friend from college in SC married a guy from NY who grew up in the Saratoga Springs area. She said you would shocked because some of those people would fit right in in SC.

    Parent
    I think it's (none / 0) (#70)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 05:01:49 PM EST
    an issue of sheer numbers. We have waaaay more fundamentalists down here than other places but that's not to say they don't exist in other places.

    Parent
    Justice Sonia Sotomayor (none / 0) (#77)
    by KeysDan on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 06:47:45 PM EST
    granted a temporary stay  the day before Kansas was to issue licenses to same sex couples.  The stay is to permit the Kansas Dept of health time to appeal the ruling of last Tuesday by US District Judge Daniel Crabtree that bars Kansas from enforcing its ban on same sex marriage. The advocates for same sex marriage are to respond by 5 pm Tuesday, Nov 11, Veterans Day.  

    Don't expect the stay to last (none / 0) (#92)
    by Peter G on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 11:12:43 PM EST
    past Wednesday. It's only fair that each side gets a chance to make its pitch, though.

    Parent
    Agreed. . (none / 0) (#109)
    by KeysDan on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 11:35:43 AM EST
    Maybe a "death rattle" by the Kansas Attorney General (who invoked Judge Sutton's 6th Circuit decision), but, as you note, it gives an additional opportunity for the state of Kansas to appeal.  

    Parent
    The response due today has been filed (none / 0) (#125)
    by Peter G on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 03:50:24 PM EST
    So the Court could now rule at any time whether to lift or extend the stay that is presently blocking the issuance of marriage licenses in Kansas.

    Parent
    As I predicted (5.00 / 3) (#141)
    by Peter G on Wed Nov 12, 2014 at 11:11:20 PM EST
    the Supreme Court late Wednesday afternoon lifted the temporary stay of the decision allowing issuance of same sex marriage licenses in Kansas. Only Justices Scalia and Thomas dissented.

    Parent
    The earlier orders (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by KeysDan on Thu Nov 13, 2014 at 01:20:41 PM EST
    were, apparently, unanimous, while in this case, as you noted, Justices Scalia and Thomas indicated that they would have granted the stay.

    In urging the Justices to step in, Kansas (which is in the Tenth Circuit)  relied upon the recent ruling of another Circuit, the Sixth, in Cincinnati.  The plaintiffs told the justices that there was no reason to treat the Kansas request differently from Idaho and Alaska which the Supreme Court denied.

    The Sixth Circuit ruling of Judge Jeffrey Sutton (a former clerk for Scalia) is the only one to uphold the bans, so far.  But, it might be instructive to note that the opportunity for a chaotic turn-around was seized only by the two named justices, and not the other seven justices, including Alito and Roberts. And, then to speculate, via crystal-ball gazing, to future rulings that might rely upon Sutton's order.  

    It will be interesting to observe the ruling of the Fourth Circuit in Richmond, Va, regarding the appeal of the South Carolina Attorney General to Federal District Court Judge Richard Gergel, who, yesterday, struck down South Carolina's ban as unconstitutional.  The Fourth Circuit has already struck down Virginia;s ban, that applied to other states in that circuit. And, the Supreme Court refused to hear an appeal of that case last month.  South Carolina is the only state in the circuit that has refused to allow same sex marriages.  

    Parent

    Some companion quotes from Mr. Obama: (none / 0) (#83)
    by lentinel on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 07:59:06 PM EST
    2011
    "My fellow Americans, our troops are coming home..."After a decade of war, the nation we now need to build is our own."

    2014
    "Why is it that everybody's so eager to use military force?"

    "The issue with respect to Syria is not simply a military issue."

    "We cannot use force everywhere that a radical ideology takes root."

    "What we're not going to be able to do is to play whack-a-mole and chase, uh, wherever, uh, extremists appear."



    Such bullshit (none / 0) (#85)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 08:24:36 PM EST
    When I go read Atrios the Internet cookie God of knowing tells the blog to feed me ads about wearing better underwear.  As if..

    Muwhahahahahaha

    Data mining foiled

    Now that is scary (none / 0) (#89)
    by MO Blue on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 10:05:29 PM EST
    They are looking in our underwear drawers now. Good thing I bought some new ones.

    Our moms always told us to wear good underwear cause you never knew when you would get In an accident. I guess the moms today are telling their kids to have good underwear cause the internet gods would know if they had holes in them. ;o)

    Parent

    Indonesian Spam? (none / 0) (#88)
    by CoralGables on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 09:45:30 PM EST


    SITE VIOLATOR (none / 0) (#93)
    by Peter G on Mon Nov 10, 2014 at 11:13:14 PM EST


    New Yorker on O'Malley, Webb and Sanders (none / 0) (#95)
    by Politalkix on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 12:07:37 AM EST
    More on Jim Webb (5.00 / 3) (#104)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 08:45:58 AM EST
    Webb voted for the Obamacare, but also for more than a dozen GOP-offered amendments to it. Only Ben Nelson topped him in the number of votes for Republican amendments.

    In April, 2012, Webb blasted Obama on his leadership on Obamacare. While I agree with some of his assessment, his statements just prior to the 2012 elections was a boon to the Republicans. Here is a couple of quotes over and above "Obama's failed leadership" comments from that interview:

    Webb also said that if Obama had opted for a smaller measure, he would have stood a chance of winning the support of a significant number of Republicans on Capitol Hill.
    ...
    Webb added that he believes most Virginia voters--outside the staunchest partisans--have not yet begun to focus on former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, the all-but-certain Republican presidential nominee.

    "People are getting ready to pay attention to his message, the average person, rather than the nominating base," Webb said. "Romney has a case to make. He has to make his case."

    If you want better healthcare, prefer not to starve grandma with Cat Food Commission "solutions" or if you are just a partisan Dem, why would you ever want Webb to run for any public office let alone for president?

    Parent

    Well (1.00 / 1) (#133)
    by Politalkix on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 06:20:27 PM EST
    "If you want better healthcare, prefer not to starve grandma with Cat Food Commission "solutions" or if you are just a partisan Dem, why would you ever want Webb to run for any public office let alone for president?"

    You are now talking like am elitist coastal Democrat. He probably like guns, corn, cheap gas and polluting the environment. Isn't that enough? Where is jbindc when you need her to weigh in?

    Parent

    This elitist coastal Democrat (5.00 / 3) (#134)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 06:38:19 PM EST
    has never lived outside of the Midwest and is now more of an Independent than a partisan Dem.

    But he does like guns and (from Dkos link above)

    His record on the environment is spotty. Jim Webb voted in favor of voiding the Mercury and Air Toxics Standard for power plants, authorizing the Keystone XL pipeline, and significantly expanding offshore drilling. And he voted against closing tax loopholes for big oil companies and extending clean energy tax incentives.

    Would guess that he is a proponent of corn but don't have info on his voting record for corn and corn ethanol subsidies.  

    Parent

    Another look at Webb's (5.00 / 3) (#105)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 09:10:48 AM EST
    Senate votes.

    In May 2007, Webb joined with other conservative Dems to prevent cloture on Reed/Feingold which would have put a time frame on funding the Iraq invasion. Obama and Clinton voted for cloture.

    In September, 2007, Webb joined with other conservative Dems to prevent cloture on another  Reed/Feingold bill which also attempted to put a time frame ending the Iraq invasion. Obama and Clinton voted for cloture.

    Thanks to a post by Liberty Equality Fraternity and Trees at the Orange for additional information on Webb some highlights:

    The DW Nominate system scores members of Congress from -1.00 (most liberal) to 1.00 (most conservative). For the 112th Congress, Jim Webb clocked in at -0.193, between Bill Nelson (D-FL) and Tom Carper (D-DE). He is listed to the right of Max Baucus (D-MT) and Joe Lieberman (I-CT)....
    ...
    Jim Webb voted with Republicans and Joe Lieberman to oppose the Democrats' plan to extend the Bush tax cuts for only the first $250,000 in income. Webb wanted millionaires to get their full tax cuts, too.
    ...
    In 2012, Jim Webb was the only Democrat to vote against extending reduced interest rates for student loans. He was a staunch student loan reform in general.

    Read the whole post. It outlines his votes on the environment, closing tax loopholes for big oil and his stand on affirmative action.

    Not sure why the media and others are trying to sell Webb as a populist but please don't ignore where he stood on the issues.


    Parent

    Thank you (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by Zorba on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 11:56:01 AM EST
    for the info on Webb.
    I've always been leery of Webb, but your two comments crystallized my unease with him.
    Despite what The New Yorker says, he doesn't sound much like what I would call a populist.

    Parent
    Why anyone would be trying to (4.67 / 3) (#103)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 06:57:50 AM EST
    promote Jim Webb is beyond me. He is in no way a progressive candidate.  As a Senator he was a real deficit hawk, pushing the president to form the cat food commission after the attempt failed to achieve cloture in the Senate.

    His domestic policies  would be a disaster for this country.

    He hates to campaign and hates politics. If his ideas didn't get recognized as brilliant and adopted immediately as law, I could envision him throwing up his hands in disgust and walking away from the table much like he walked away from his Senate seat. The closest description of his political leanings IMO is that he is a Reagan Democrot.

    Sanders, definitely, O'Malley, maybe (more research needed), Webb, a thousand times NO.

    Parent

    Mord, honestly what does (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by fishcamp on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 02:46:00 PM EST
    a 4 really mean?  But I like you better now for doing that.  We, allegedly know what 1's and 2's mean but I have no idea what a 3 or 4 means.  Especially a 3.  A 4 I can almost understand but, if you go that far, why not give a 5?  

    Parent
    I think it's like scoring gymnastics or (5.00 / 3) (#121)
    by Anne on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 03:26:41 PM EST
    figure skating: you have to leave room in case someone posts a better comment than the one you're rating.

    Years ago, when my daughter was competing at horse shows, no one ever wanted to be the first one into the ring, because even if it was a perfect round, it would always get scored just a little bit lower in case someone later in the line-up did better.

    A three?  Maybe it's like a participation trophy/ribbon: thanks for showing up - keep trying!

    I think the whole system is kind of ridiculous, and that's why I don't use it very often.


    Parent

    Anne, you deserve a 6 for that answer... (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by fishcamp on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 03:29:55 PM EST
    "I think the whole system... (5.00 / 3) (#123)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 03:36:42 PM EST
    ...is kind of ridiculous"

    Yup.

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    I'm really (none / 0) (#120)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 03:23:03 PM EST
    surprised that the New Yorker would even mention him and I think he supported Hillary in 2008 unlike the other senator from Virginia who's not Warner. I forgot his name.

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    The more (none / 0) (#100)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Nov 11, 2014 at 03:34:25 AM EST
    people running the better.

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    Greenwald drops the sarcasm bomb (none / 0) (#144)
    by Politalkix on Sat Nov 15, 2014 at 12:11:27 PM EST
    As many of you are aware, I have never been very impressed with Greenwald's "journalism". There are many good points he often makes that is never brought up in the idiot MSM; however, I also often find his willingness to exaggerate, mask or bend the truth to champion the causes he advocates, very troubling. I would have been more comfortable with his advocacy if he did not call himself a journalists.

    However, I do understand that he has a cult following and has many admirers in this blog.

    It seems that he is not very thrilled at the prospect of a HRC presidency and is writing columns about it. link    

    Embrace the suck, resistance is futile (none / 0) (#145)
    by Politalkix on Sat Nov 15, 2014 at 12:31:19 PM EST
    link says Andrew O'Hehir, in Salon.

    "Embrace the suck"? (5.00 / 2) (#146)
    by Yman on Sat Nov 15, 2014 at 05:05:55 PM EST
    Thought we did that in 2008 ..

    ... and 2012 ...

    Parent